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Let's call up Dom Smith

Centerfield Jun 08 2018 07:44 PM

Sure. He's not doing well in Vegas, but at some point you have to see what the kid's got. Adrian Gonzalez has a .690 OPS. Really no further point in keeping him.

Edgy MD Jun 08 2018 07:50 PM Re: Let's call up Dom Smith

It might be a good way to cross the Yankees' scouting up too, plus calling him up for a marquee series = CAHN-fidence boost.

Ceetar Jun 08 2018 07:52 PM Re: Let's call up Dom Smith

I think they should call up Smith too, and should've, but I disagree that Gonzalez has no point.

Edgy MD Jun 08 2018 07:55 PM Re: Let's call up Dom Smith

It's not necessarily an either/or question, right? Gonzalez is classic pinch-hitter material.

Centerfield Jun 08 2018 08:07 PM Re: Let's call up Dom Smith

Sure. If there is no roster crunch I'm fine keeping him. Gotta start giving some AB's to someone else though. Pointless to keep starting Gonzalez.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Jun 08 2018 09:28 PM Re: Let's call up Dom Smith

Smith's slugging is sluggish. They've begun trying him in the outfield, perhaps the longterm solution is Alonso but as I've said for awhile I'd like to see either or both prove they are too good for the league they're in first.

Ashie62 Jun 08 2018 11:05 PM Re: Let's call up Dom Smith

Mets are already in freefall. I would roll the dice on Dom

John Cougar Lunchbucket Jun 08 2018 11:32 PM Re: Let's call up Dom Smith

I think the near term plan is making Broooce and Flores the platoon 1Bmen when Cespy and Flores return

bmfc1 Jun 09 2018 01:19 AM Re: Let's call up Dom Smith

Gonzalez is done. The Mets took the trash that 2 other teams discarded because he was cheap and--surprise!--he's not any good. Now that the season is on the verge of being over, call up "future star" Dom and let's see what he can do.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Jun 09 2018 01:21 AM Re: Let's call up Dom Smith

well I hope it's not so you can shit on him if he doesn't succeed

bmfc1 Jun 09 2018 01:25 AM Re: Let's call up Dom Smith

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: well I hope it's not so you can shit on him if he doesn't succeed Wow. Ouch. Didn't expect that from that source. My point is what else do they have to lose? Why would I shit on him (I ass-ume that you're referring to the way I do with Rosario)? Smith hasn't been hyped this season and was, in my opinion, the subject of some derision from the GM in the off-season.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Jun 09 2018 01:35 AM Re: Let's call up Dom Smith

no I agree I guess. it's the quotes and the fact that hes not exactly forcing his way onto the roster that doesn't bode well

bmfc1 Jun 09 2018 01:37 AM Re: Let's call up Dom Smith

No, he's not.

Centerfield Jun 09 2018 02:07 AM Re: Let's call up Dom Smith

No. Dom Smith’s numbers in LV don’t scream superstar but at some point you’re going to have to try him out or give up on him. What’s the point in giving these ABs away to Gonzalez. And if he sucks get him out of the way and bring in Alonso. I seem to remember Nimmo didn’t have great numbers either. Or has a year where he was down or something.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Jun 09 2018 02:17 AM Re: Let's call up Dom Smith

It's just, first baseman are so hard to break in new.

Centerfield Jun 09 2018 02:23 AM Re: Let's call up Dom Smith

Are they? I’d rather break in new than break down old.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Jun 09 2018 02:41 AM Re: Let's call up Dom Smith

we tried Davis and duda and then Smith and haven't developed even one as good as Gonzalez. Baseball is full of these guys -- Yonder Alonso, Justin Smoak, Greg Bird, even, who take forever to establish themselves, struggle for consistency, never really get over. Yet, its really hard to be good team without a stud 1B.

smg58 Jun 09 2018 02:33 PM Re: Let's call up Dom Smith

I'm a little concerned that Smith is still dealing with his injury. The power just doesn't seem to be there right now, and you don't expect a 22-year old playing in Las Vegas to lose the pop in his bat for no reason. I'd proceed with caution with him. But, I do agree that Gonzalez is showing us nothing, and I'm getting fed up with our defense giving runs to the other team.

Vic Sage Jun 11 2018 04:10 PM Re: Let's call up Dom Smith

your wish is their command. so be careful what you wish for...

Ceetar Jun 11 2018 05:40 PM Re: Let's call up Dom Smith

smg58 wrote: I'm a little concerned that Smith is still dealing with his injury. The power just doesn't seem to be there right now, and you don't expect a 22-year old playing in Las Vegas to lose the pop in his bat for no reason. I'd proceed with caution with him. But, I do agree that Gonzalez is showing us nothing, and I'm getting fed up with our defense giving runs to the other team. I said it in the Gonzalez thread but here as well, I think there's a reasonable chance that the Mets specifically told Smith to work on his plate discipline. So while the overall offensive numbers aren't great, the BB% is. (11.3% in the minors, would be 43rd of 161 or so in the majors) And with the juiced ball in the majors the SLG difference between the PCL and the MLB isn't that stark. So come up, wait for your pitch, and mash it. I guess that's the next step in the development, but if he can pull of even a .350/.400 obp/slg it'll be a huge boost to the offense over Gonzalez, and will even compensate if we lose Cabrera.

Centerfield Jun 11 2018 06:08 PM Re: Let's call up Dom Smith

I'm glad they made this move (obviously). I have no idea if Dom Smith is the answer. But I know for sure Gonzalez was not. And if Dom crashes and burns, then we get to see what Alonso's all about. I'm guessing there is a corresponding promotion of Alonso to AAA.

Edgy MD Jun 11 2018 06:19 PM Re: Let's call up Dom Smith

Not yet, but probably soon. July 10 is the Eastern League All Star Game, and I imagine he'll be up after that at the latest. He just pulled pulled into the Eastern League homerun league, sitting not only (just) ahead of Jeff McNeil, but ahead of Vladimir Guerrero, Jr. and Cavan Biggio as well. NcNeil's got the higher OPS and versatility and is 2 1/2 years older, so I'd expect him to get bumped up first. Maybe even directly to the bigs.

smg58 Jun 11 2018 07:16 PM Re: Let's call up Dom Smith

Ceetar wrote: I said it in the Gonzalez thread but here as well, I think there's a reasonable chance that the Mets specifically told Smith to work on his plate discipline. So while the overall offensive numbers aren't great, the BB% is. (11.3% in the minors, would be 43rd of 161 or so in the majors) And with the juiced ball in the majors the SLG difference between the PCL and the MLB isn't that stark. So come up, wait for your pitch, and mash it. I guess that's the next step in the development, but if he can pull of even a .350/.400 obp/slg it'll be a huge boost to the offense over Gonzalez, and will even compensate if we lose Cabrera. It's not a bad thing to work on, for sure, but I still think he's not 100%. Like I said in the other thread, it would be ideal if he, Bruce, and Conforto could rotate in two spots (or perhaps only one against lefties) until one or more of them heal enough and start feeling it at the plate. But the Cespedes setback makes that hard.

Ceetar Jun 11 2018 07:26 PM Re: Let's call up Dom Smith

or you could just bench Bruce period.

Lefty Specialist Jun 11 2018 08:24 PM Re: Let's call up Dom Smith

Dom Smith I understand, but Ty Kelly? Anyone? Bueller?

John Cougar Lunchbucket Jun 11 2018 08:32 PM Re: Let's call up Dom Smith

switch hitting utility player, decent wheels. Sounds a lot like someone we know. I actually love Ty Kelly for his attitude, his ability to draw walks, and his great videos. He's a solid addition to the Mets!

Vic Sage Jun 11 2018 08:43 PM Re: Let's call up Dom Smith Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Jun 11 2018 08:44 PM

and with Cabrera hurt, who else on the roster can play 2b? Reyes? Do we really want to give Reyes more ABs? I'd rather have Kelly

Vic Sage Jun 11 2018 08:43 PM Re: Let's call up Dom Smith

avi

Ceetar Jun 11 2018 09:03 PM Re: Let's call up Dom Smith

Mesoraco was dealing with somethign so they brought in the third catcher, he's over it, so away he goes. Now Cabrera is dealing with something, so you bring up the extra IFer. smart roster management.

batmagadanleadoff Jun 13 2018 04:28 PM Re: Let's call up Dom Smith

smg58 wrote: Ceetar wrote: I said it in the Gonzalez thread but here as well, I think there's a reasonable chance that the Mets specifically told Smith to work on his plate discipline. So while the overall offensive numbers aren't great, the BB% is. (11.3% in the minors, would be 43rd of 161 or so in the majors) And with the juiced ball in the majors the SLG difference between the PCL and the MLB isn't that stark. So come up, wait for your pitch, and mash it. I guess that's the next step in the development, but if he can pull of even a .350/.400 obp/slg it'll be a huge boost to the offense over Gonzalez, and will even compensate if we lose Cabrera. It's not a bad thing to work on, for sure, but I still think he's not 100%. Like I said in the other thread, it would be ideal if he, Bruce, and Conforto could rotate in two spots (or perhaps only one against lefties) until one or more of them heal enough and start feeling it at the plate. But the Cespedes setback makes that hard. Smith's Vegas numbers are bad. Unadjusted. When you adjust for superior major league pitching and for going from a mile high hitting paradise to a pitcher's park, they're even worse than bad. But his walks are up. To rationalize his bad numbers by speculating that Smith was sent down to work on his walks at the expense of everything else is about as contrived a stretch of the imagination as I've heard. The Mets would be asking Smith to develop more bad hitting habits than I can list to "get walks and to hell with everything else". No organization, not even the colossally stupid Mets could be that dumb. I hope.

Centerfield Jun 13 2018 04:58 PM Re: Let's call up Dom Smith

Agreed that Dom Smith's numbers are bad, but it's still a relatively small sample size. 219 ABs. In 2017, Brandon Nimmo had a .732 OPS in LV, with a terrible average, and only 4 HR's. So there's precedent for a hitter turning it on after they arrive at the show. Nimmo, like Smith, was much better in the year before. .905 for Smith, .964 for Nimmo. So hopefully Dom gets the bump like Nimmo did. Hopefully.

batmagadanleadoff Jun 13 2018 05:21 PM Re: Let's call up Dom Smith

Centerfield wrote: Agreed that Dom Smith's numbers are bad, but it's still a relatively small sample size. 219 ABs. In 2017, Brandon Nimmo had a .732 OPS in LV, with a terrible average, and only 4 HR's. So there's precedent for a hitter turning it on after they arrive at the show. Nimmo, like Smith, was much better in the year before. .905 for Smith, .964 for Nimmo. So hopefully Dom gets the bump like Nimmo did. Hopefully. Sure. I didn't make any comments about Smith's future., just that he sucked in Vegas. I just disagree with the idea that Smith was sent down and asked to hit in a way that he'd never hit once back in the majors. That idea, to me, is pure rationalization. Also, there are scouting reports that Smith's hitting looked awful in Vegas, and that specifically he wasn't driving the ball or hitting it hard.

Centerfield Jun 13 2018 05:45 PM Re: Let's call up Dom Smith

That itself might be the explanation for the walk rate. Fouling off the pitches you should be crushing and thus prolonging the AB's. That can lead to walks in LV. It won't in the show.

Centerfield Jun 22 2018 02:45 PM Re: Let's call up Dom Smith

Dom Smith. Sure, it's a small sample size, and a large part of that sample was in Colorado. But .300/.323/.567 That's an .889 OPS.

Vic Sage Jun 22 2018 06:00 PM Re: Let's call up Dom Smith

Lets see if he can keep it up at home. Certainly Flores isn't making an argument to be the 1bman.

Centerfield Jun 22 2018 06:10 PM Re: Let's call up Dom Smith

Interesting quote today in this article: https://nypost.com/2018/06/22/dominic-s ... aying-off/ “You hear all the talk about how you don’t have power, so you try to do too much and try to hit home runs and that is not really my game,” Smith said. “I can hit the ball out of the park as well, but I hit the ball out of the park at all fields, so it’s definitely something I wanted to be more cautious of this year...I definitely didn’t want to get away from that, because if they are going to throw me away I might as well take my hits, my doubles,” I don't know who is generating "all the talk" but I wonder if someone in the Mets organization was trying to get him to increase his power etc. Could by why he hit 9 HR's last year but only hit .198. To me, leave that all or nothing shit at home. We have plenty of guys who hit .220 and 25 HR's already. Give me a guy who hits .315, gets on base at a .400 clip and hits to all fields. A guy who is a threat to hit good pitching instead of a guy who accumulates his stats against the dregs of a bullpen. 10-15 HR's? Plenty enough. Give me mid-80's Keith.

Centerfield Jun 22 2018 06:11 PM Re: Let's call up Dom Smith

Oh, and the guy seems much more nimble than last year. And I kinda like how he wears his uniform baggy. Like he insists on wearing his old one to show how much weight he's lost.

A Boy Named Seo Jun 22 2018 06:28 PM Re: Let's call up Dom Smith

.290 Dave Magadan hitters are the new inefficiency.

Centerfield Jul 10 2018 01:48 PM Re: Let's call up Dom Smith

So, he's cooled down significantly outside of Coor's Field. OPS now down to .547. I heard his wrist was bothering him. I guess we'll have to wait and see.

Centerfield Jul 16 2018 02:35 PM Re: Let's call up Dom Smith

If you want to get an idea of how dumb the Mets are, look no further than Dom Smith. Even in a lost season, a smart franchise can start preparing to be successful again. One of the most precious assets during such a season are MLB plate appearances. They provide an opportunity to gauge young talent. But these moments are finite, and a smart franchise should be efficient with them. The Mets, despite going nowhere last year, waited too long to get a good read on Dom Smith. Now, they are giving away AB's to Jose Reyes while Smith sits on the bench. In this last four game series, he got one at bat. Jose Reyes has been playing every day. It's hard to believe a franchise can be this incompetent. I understand wanting to showcase Flores if they are trying to build his trade value. Flores can play 3B. Probably as well as Reyes at this point. Or Flores can play 2B, and move Cabrera to third. Either way, there is no excuse not to start Dom Smith at 1B every day and see what he can provide. We are going to have to make a decision on Smith/Alonso very soon. It's stupid not to give Smith at-bats.

Benjamin Grimm Jul 16 2018 02:41 PM Re: Let's call up Dom Smith

I wonder who it is that's deciding not to let Smith play. Is it the front office? Or is it Mickey, managing for the short term in an attempt to get enough wins to save his job? (Not that that's working out all that well.)

Ceetar Jul 16 2018 02:57 PM Re: Let's call up Dom Smith

There's almost definitely something going on with Smith and the club that we're not privy to. I suspect this is not unrelated.

Centerfield Jul 16 2018 03:02 PM Re: Let's call up Dom Smith

I have nothing to base this on, but I think that the club is very simple minded. *Flores and Cabrera have to play every day since they are trade bait. *Once they are gone, there will be plenty of time to play Dom Smith. No rush. We have the entire second half. *Reyes has to play every day because we have to get him going. Once all the trades take place, there will be little to hold fans' interest. So we can bank on his nostalgia to sell tickets in September.

Edgy MD Jul 16 2018 03:16 PM Re: Let's call up Dom Smith

I'm not sure playing Reyes has sold ticket one. I do think if they release him, it could set off an lolmets don't honor their heroes properly narrative. That might cost them a ticket or two, but nothing that a little curtailing of the stinking wouldn't offset.

Centerfield Jul 16 2018 03:25 PM Re: Let's call up Dom Smith

Yeah, I don't know that he has either. But from what I'm hearing through the news, it seems like someone in management thinks that he's worth something. Again, pure speculation on my part. Really. I can't understand their logic behind Reyes and their unwillingness to play Smith. I get that he hasn't been good, but (1) he isn't going to get better without playing and (2) if he is this bad, this is info we need to know really really soon.

Vic Sage Jul 16 2018 03:47 PM Re: Let's call up Dom Smith Edited 2 time(s), most recently on Jul 16 2018 05:44 PM

totally agreed. every AB given to Reyes or Bautista over ANYBODY is a waste of time. And time is a precious commodity. Play Flores at 3b. Play Dom at 1b. Trade Cabrera and Familia for AA players. Cut Reyes and bring up McNeil for 2b. Cut Bautista and play Borenstein (or any AAAA hitter) in RF on the off chance he can show something. Hell, i'd be happier seeing Tebow in the OF than Bautista... and THAT would sell tix! Not that i really want to see him, but you know what i mean. Nimmo McNeil Flores Conforto Borenstein (until Cespedes returns) D.Smith Plawecki -pitcher Rosario

Edgy MD Jul 16 2018 03:51 PM Re: Let's call up Dom Smith

My guess is that "able to play third" is an established part of Flores' label, and whatever value it has is diminished the more he actually plays third. Just a guess. Another possibility is that they don't want to touch him while he's hitting.

Vic Sage Jul 16 2018 03:54 PM Re: Let's call up Dom Smith

Edgy MD wrote: My guess is that "able to play third" is an established part of Flores' label, and whatever value it has is diminished the more he actually plays third. Just a guess. then play Flores at 1b and Smith in LF, with McNeil at 3b and Kelly at 2b. or vice versa. anything but what they're doing now.

seawolf17 Jul 16 2018 04:06 PM Re: Let's call up Dom Smith

Seriously. Nobody's buying tickets to see Jose Reyes any more.

smg58 Jul 16 2018 04:46 PM Re: Let's call up Dom Smith

I think somebody upstairs sees sentimental value in getting Reyes and Wright to share the left side of the infield one more time. Personally, I think Reyes can and should play shortstop for the Long Island Ducks. THEN he might sell a ticket or two. As for Smith... I think he needs to spend time unlearning everything he was taught about pulling the ball as much as possible. That might be hard to do in Queens. Plus he's probably going to have to learn to play the outfield much better if he has any future here. Send him down, give him a chance to regain value, and then figure out what to do with him.

Edgy MD Jul 16 2018 04:53 PM Re: Let's call up Dom Smith

If a return of Reyes and Wright has any value, it doesn't speak to Reyes' current playing time. I'm more reluctant to judge, though, until after the break. I tend to agree that there's more than meets the eye with Smitty's situation. But I'm not expecting to be necessarily comfortable with the reasoning that Mickey will offer. I will say that (1) Smith's at-bats have been frustrating and excruciating, (2) there's a possibility that Reyes has been given an we're-planning-on-releasing-you-soon-but-we'll-give-you-enough-PT-to-try-and-dig-yourself-out-you've-got-X-amount-of-weeks ultimatum

Lefty Specialist Jul 16 2018 05:16 PM Re: Let's call up Dom Smith

I'm baffled by the Reyes playing time. There's SOMETHING going on with Dom Smith, to see what little PT he's getting. They're going to dump Bautista, Familia and Cabrera after the break. Flores is also a possibility; this time I don't think he'll be crying if he leaves. And Reyes, he needs to be shot out of a cannon. I'd rather see Ty Kelly play third.

Vic Sage Jul 16 2018 05:42 PM Re: Let's call up Dom Smith

they're not going to "dump" Flores, I don't think. They may trade him, if they can get value for him, but he's a useful player and there's no need to dump him.

Ceetar Jul 16 2018 06:12 PM Re: Let's call up Dom Smith

Lefty Specialist wrote: I'm baffled by the Reyes playing time. There's SOMETHING going on with Dom Smith, to see what little PT he's getting. They're going to dump Bautista, Familia and Cabrera after the break. Flores is also a possibility; this time I don't think he'll be crying if he leaves. And Reyes, he needs to be shot out of a cannon. I'd rather see Ty Kelly play third. We yell and scream but all teams seem to do this. lead up to the trading deadline and then do the 'play the kids' stuff. It's dumb for the most part but it's mostly minor. And that said, there hopefully is some value in working with the actual minor league coaches and instructors. It's such a fine line between letting them have the full timeto develop skills before they get to the majors and getting them up to speed and used to major league speed. I tend to err on promote them earlier, but it's not necessarily the 'best' way to do it.

metirish Jul 20 2018 07:04 PM Re: Let's call up Dom Smith

Optioned back to LV , he will be joined by Oswalt....Drew Smith going the other way Is Dom Smith any good?, I have no idea but he looked awful this time around, course he was on the bench for a lot of that...

bmfc1 Jul 20 2018 07:07 PM Re: Let's call up Dom Smith

bmfc1 wrote: Gonzalez is done. The Mets took the trash that 2 other teams discarded because he was cheap and--surprise!--he's not any good. Now that the season is on the verge of being over, call up "future star" Dom and let's see what he can do. We saw and it wasn't good. That doesn't mean that he's a bust but he's better off elsewhere for now.

Centerfield Aug 15 2018 01:57 PM Re: Let's call up Dom Smith

So Dom smith had 3 hits last night and is starting to pick things up a little. Still hitting for no power, but at least some hits are starting to fall. It's really curious that the Mets are not using this time to see what they have in Smith. I understand his play doesn't necessarily warrant a call up, but at some point you have to just give him regular AB's and see what he can do. It's not like there are any mysteries about Flores. Maybe the Mets have given up on him and think it's better that he inflate his numbers at AAA and trade him this winter. I don't know.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Aug 15 2018 03:43 PM Re: Let's call up Dom Smith

I think Smith is rounding into a "change of scenery" guy, but I also suspect the Mets might look at the evil plan to keep Alonso buried as a way to avoid Smith-ing his value away and seeing what he could bring back in a trade, as we have way too many 1Bmen on the roster already

Vic Sage Aug 15 2018 04:42 PM Re: Let's call up Dom Smith

we have NO 1bmen on the roster. We just have guys we stick at first base.

Ceetar Aug 15 2018 05:22 PM Re: Let's call up Dom Smith

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: I think Smith is rounding into a "change of scenery" guy, but I also suspect the Mets might look at the evil plan to keep Alonso buried as a way to avoid Smith-ing his value away and seeing what he could bring back in a trade, as we have way too many 1Bmen on the roster already There is value in 'development' in working on things in the minors, reps, training, etc, outside of the lights and competition of real games. It's not like Alonso has been in AAA all season. I'd probably bring him up, but I typically err on the side of 'eh, just promote him', I'm just not going to deny that it's that cut and dry. I guess same with Smith? It really feels like he should be up and taking his hacks here, but he was garbage last time up and didn't walk at all. If my unbaked theory that his decrease in power early this season was a result of the Mets specifically telling him to focus on batting eye, and then he comes up and doesn't walk, it doesn't seem farfetched that he was sent back to do just that. I still think he should probably just do it up here at this point, but hell, maybe it's a "You don't get rewarded for not listening"? I dunno.

Rockin' Doc Aug 17 2018 02:49 AM Re: Let's call up Dom Smith

Vic Sage wrote: we have NO 1bmen on the roster. We just have guys we stick at first base. Ding, ding, ding! We have a winner. Or at least a post I heartily agree with. The Mets have trotted an array of options out to man first base, but no one who really looks like a true answer at first base. Gonzalez (old and well past his prime) Bruce (old and hasn't really played first base much before) Flores ( I love his passion and he can hit, but defensively he is essentially a jack of all trades and the master of none) Smith (defensively seems adequate, but unproven as a hitter - should probably gets some time at 1st the remainder of this season to see whether or not he can be a viable option next year) There appears to be no long term option among the bunch in my opinion. Peter Alonso has hit at every stop during his minor league career ,so there is so hope for the future. Though I have never seen him play (outside of a few highlight videos) I have read that he couldn't catch cold in a Siberian winter. I would personally like to see what the man can do.

HahnSolo Aug 17 2018 02:36 PM Re: Let's call up Dom Smith

Smith's been almost exclusively an OF since he's gone back down to Vegas right? Maybe that's all we need to know about his future prospects at 1B in Queens?

Edgy MD Aug 17 2018 02:38 PM Re: Let's call up Dom Smith

No, I think that's more about having no other place to put Alonso.

bmfc1 Aug 19 2018 11:08 AM Re: Let's call up Dom Smith

[tweet:2tdshbll]https://twitter.com/betsyhelfand/status/1031049177004953600[/tweet:2tdshbll]

MFS62 Aug 21 2018 01:22 PM Re: Let's call up Dom Smith

bmfc1 wrote: [tweet]https://twitter.com/betsyhelfand/status/1031049177004953600[/tweet] I think it should say "mis-playing". While he was learning the position in the minors, didn't they mention anything about calling for the ball or being called off by another player? Yech. Later

Edgy MD Aug 21 2018 02:29 PM Re: Let's call up Dom Smith

Well, I think we have little idea how he's performed defensively in the minors. Calling somebody off quicker, that's an experience issue. But you have two inexperienced players out there, one brand new to the position, and that's the sort of thing that happens. Mick chose to go into extra innings with an out-of-position neophyte in left, and got burned for it. Beyond that, though, they had 12 innings and ample opportunity to push a second run across.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Aug 21 2018 02:54 PM Re: Let's call up Dom Smith

They also started the game with an inexperienced left fielder. I didn;t see the first run, but Wheely seemed to think that ball could have been caught but we were burned by a shift

Centerfield Aug 21 2018 03:05 PM Re: Let's call up Dom Smith

I know I sound like a broken record here, but why on earth are we not starting Dom Smith? If you want Flores to get AB's, start him at 2B. Or start Smith in LF. There is absolutely no reason to play these filler guys over Smith.

Ceetar Aug 21 2018 03:09 PM Re: Let's call up Dom Smith

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: They also started the game with an inexperienced left fielder. I didn;t see the first run, but Wheely seemed to think that ball could have been caught but we were burned by a shift Wheeler's been whiny about the shift in the past right? I didn't see it either and can't seem to find a catch probability by play breakdown anywhere (And it doesn't appear in Reinheimer's statcast fielding). I mean, Smith probably should've been starting over Reinheimer out there, inexperience be damned.

A Boy Named Seo Aug 21 2018 03:22 PM Re: Let's call up Dom Smith

They were shading him up the middle, but it wasn't a gross overshift IMO. And Keith would have raised a stink about it if it was. The replay is in the link below. You can see Amed's little hat in the shortstop position, shaded towards second. Home-plate view at the :30 mark. It was a perfectly placed little dumper. https://www.mlb.com/giants/news/giants- ... -291167868

Edgy MD Aug 21 2018 03:24 PM Re: Let's call up Dom Smith

Well, it wasn't about experience, so much as it was about Holland throwing withe his left hand. Recall that Conforto and McNeil were out of the lineup also. That said, I still advocate for Smith at first and Flores in left if they are going to be in the lineup at the same time. It may not have changed yesterday's outcome, but it's a better way to get a look for the future. Flores has not only established that he can play first, but that he's the best option there right now. But going forward, he's going to be looking for at-bats around the diamond again, so he might as well get familiar with left. And if they want a further look at Smith, it should be at the position he's going to be competing for going forward. As for that pop-up, with a traditional alignment, the shortstop would have been camped under it clipping his nails by the time it came down.

Centerfield Aug 21 2018 03:30 PM Re: Let's call up Dom Smith

Edgy MD wrote: Well, it wasn't about experience, so much as it was about Holland throwing withe his left hand. Recall that Conforto and McNeil were out of the lineup also. This just drives me crazy. Let's see what McNeil can do against lefties. Let's see what Smith can do against lefties. Let's let Conforto get MLB AB's against lefties and try to improve.

A Boy Named Seo Aug 21 2018 04:59 PM Re: Let's call up Dom Smith

Edgy MD wrote: As for that pop-up, with a traditional alignment, the shortstop would have been camped under it clipping his nails by the time it came down. Yeah, but I'm not sure traditional alignment is the best play there anyway. Fangraphs sez he has gone opposite field on batted balls only 17% of his ABs this year, but has gone up the middle (31%) and pulled it to right (52%). Seems shading him up the middle was the right positioning. Wheeler jammed him inside to get him to pull, too, but he fought a wicked pitch off the hands and somehow dumped it to left. Luckiest luck, but I think Amed was in the right spot.

Edgy MD Aug 21 2018 05:14 PM Re: Let's call up Dom Smith

Yeah, I'm not sure either. I'm just cornsnoggled by the reality that we got beat by giving up a pair of shit popups over 13 innings.

HahnSolo Aug 21 2018 06:17 PM Re: Let's call up Dom Smith

Wheeler was probably salty about not only the run-scoring bloop hit, but also the Belt hit earlier in the inning was a weak bloop to where the SS would normally be stationed. So he probably felt like he had to get five outs that inning.

G-Fafif Aug 21 2018 06:35 PM Re: Let's call up Dom Smith

Wheeler enjoys "shoving it" against the team that traded him, he has said. Probably frustrated to give up anything to them, especially when it was the shift that did him in. Then again, perhaps the shift has saved him a base hit here or there this season.

smg58 Aug 21 2018 07:39 PM Re: Let's call up Dom Smith

The shift is playing the odds. There is sufficient evidence that it lowers BABIP, at least with certain hitters. But just because it will work more often than not doesn’t mean it will always work, and it didn’t last night. I realize Smith is not an experienced outfielder, but it would be nice to get the sense that he has a clue out there.

Frayed Knot Aug 21 2018 07:44 PM Re: Let's call up Dom Smith

On the other hand, it's not like collisions, near misses, and other mix-ups don't occasionally occur with experienced IFs & OFs too. And, yeah, if pitchers, broadcasters, and fans are going to complain each time a shift leads to a hit that wouldn't be otherwise, they have to at least acknowledge the ones that shifts take away.

Edgy MD Sep 09 2018 12:30 AM Re: Let's call up Dom Smith

I have a theory about this guy. He's not only gotten rid of the bowling ball under his shirt, but the perpetually disengaged sleepy eyes are gone too. I think he's not only cut his diet but given up the pot. I think he's getting used to working with a new body and a new mind, and he's a good candidate for a bounceback in 2019.

Centerfield Sep 10 2018 03:03 PM Re: Let's call up Dom Smith

Dom with double yesterday. His OPS in September: 1.178. His OPS in August: 1.333 Small sample size. Sure. But why are the Mets keeping his sample size so small? There is no benefit to giving away Dom's AB's to Jay Bruce and Austin Jackson. Bruce will never be able to rehabilitate his trade value enough that someone will take him off our hands. And Austin Jackson is a journeyman with a .733 career OPS. (who after a hot start, now has a .724 OPS with the Mets) I think the Jay Bruce thing is all about justifying the signing. Ownership is hoping Jay will have a strong finish to the season so they can diminish the need to get actual production this winter. "We saw the real Jay Bruce in September." And they were hoping Austin Jackson would stay hot so they could justify bringing him back next year. "Austin Jackson has shown he can play in NY." That's the only reason I can think of to bury Dom the way they have.

Ceetar Sep 10 2018 03:15 PM Re: Let's call up Dom Smith

All teams justify their signing and give AB to guys they're committed to. It's not productive to piss off Bruce by half-benching him. Jackson and Reyes though, even Flores, fuck 'em. I want Smith to play mostly every day going forward, but like, he needs to walk. He looked like he was doing it early on in the Minors, but since his first call-up when he basically didn't, he went back down and basically didn't, and has only walked once in the majors in his recent returns. And that was Ball-Ball-Ball-called strike-ball, which I could probably look at the actual pitch location but was probably not close with bases empty, down 6-0, and Tomas Nido on deck.

41Forever Sep 10 2018 05:15 PM Re: Let's call up Dom Smith

Centerfield wrote: Dom with double yesterday. His OPS in September: 1.178. His OPS in August: 1.333 Small sample size. Sure. But why are the Mets keeping his sample size so small? There is no benefit to giving away Dom's AB's to Jay Bruce and Austin Jackson. Bruce will never be able to rehabilitate his trade value enough that someone will take him off our hands. And Austin Jackson is a journeyman with a .733 career OPS. (who after a hot start, now has a .724 OPS with the Mets) I think the Jay Bruce thing is all about justifying the signing. Ownership is hoping Jay will have a strong finish to the season so they can diminish the need to get actual production this winter. "We saw the real Jay Bruce in September." And they were hoping Austin Jackson would stay hot so they could justify bringing him back next year. "Austin Jackson has shown he can play in NY." That's the only reason I can think of to bury Dom the way they have. I'm not sure why you think would want Austin Jackson for next year. Isn't Lagares signed for 2019 with an option for 2020? I don't think Jackson is bad to have around as a reserve. But my impression was that he's here to play out the string after the injuries and it was apparent the Mate den Dekker wasn't an option. I don't know what happens next year with Bruce or Smith. If Alonzo is as good as advertised, he's going to be up sooner in the season -- after May 1 -- than later. You still have a crowd with Bruce, Conforto, Nimmo, Lagares and eventually Cespedes.

Lefty Specialist Sep 10 2018 05:31 PM Re: Let's call up Dom Smith

I'm assuming they'll hold Alonso down in the minors for a month or two to prevent his FA clock from starting. It's what they do. and if they didn't bring him up when he was raging hot this year they'll wait to bring him up next year. I'm betting they trade Dom Smith this winter for a bag of balls, and roll with Bruce at first until Alonso comes up. I wouldn't expect Ces until near the All-Star break. So the first two months the outfield is Conforto/Lagares/Nimmo. Then Conforto/Nimmo/Bruce. Then Cespedes/Conforto/Nimmo/Bruce. I would expect Cespedes would be limited, so there'll be playing time for everybody. Then dump Bruce at the deadline unless one or more of the others have a season-ending injury (which'll probably happen, rendering all this moot). Austin Jackson, meh. Guys like him are a dime a dozen. Sign him to a minor league deal and let him fight it out with a few other Michael Tucker clones in spring training to be the 5th/6th outfielder. Get a bullpen!

Centerfield Sep 10 2018 08:12 PM Re: Let's call up Dom Smith

41Forever wrote: I'm not sure why you think [they] would want Austin Jackson for next year. Isn't Lagares signed for 2019 with an option for 2020? I don't think Jackson is bad to have around as a reserve. But my impression was that he's here to play out the string after the injuries and it was apparent the Mate den Dekker wasn't an option. Why do I think that the Mets want Austin Jackson for next year? Because he's playing this year. And the only logical reason to play him this year is to prepare for next season. There should be no need to find someone to "play out the string". The term "play out the string" suggests that these meaningless games are also useless. And that is far, far from the truth. I've said it many times this season. Even in a lost year, major league AB's are a valuable, finite asset. A team that has a plan makes good use of these AB's, even during a lost year. A short-sighted, foolish club, brings in warm bodies to "play out the string". Major league at-bats can be used for: 1. Evaluation: Give a young player significant window of time so that the club may evaluate his skills on a major league level. Simultaneously, that young player benefits from... 2. Development: A young player gets his feet wet, makes his rookie mistakes, gets used to the speed of big league pitching/hitting. Gives him groundwork so he knows what to work on moving forward. 3. Establish Trade Value: An injured player, a former prospect, a veteran player, can all use AB's in a lost season to regain trade value. Particularly before the deadlines. 4. Rehabilitation: A player coming off a long-term injury can use big league AB's to get back to game speed. There are a few other uses I'm sure. All of these have an eye toward the future. They help the long-term goal which is to get back to winning. Well prepared clubs use their AB's accordingly. The Mets have given Austin Jackson 145 AB's in the second half. They have given Dominic Smith 15. If you knew nothing else about the players, which guy do you think the Mets are thinking has a future here? The only way to explain the number of AB's given to Jackson is that the Mets think he has a future here. If the Mets do not think so, then the Mets are acting foolishly. Now sure, they play different positions. But Smith is able to play a corner OF position. This would require moving Conforto or Nimmo to CF. Guess what? In all likelihood, Nimmo and/or Conforto should see significant time in CF next year. And so the logical move would be to give them time at these positions (see use #2 above). The only way you wouldn't need that is you have another centerfielder. Lagares? Possibly. But the guy has a .667 career OPS and can't stay healthy. Or, the Mets plan on adding another centerfielder. Most likely a guy who's cheap. A guy like...Austin Jackson. Now, you may be right. The Mets may have no plans to bring back Austin Jackson. They might have signed him to "play out the string". They did exactly that with Norichika Aoki last year. But the case could be made that the Mets had no one even worth trying out last September. That certainly isn't the case this year. Dominic Smith was once a top flight prospect. To waste these AB's, give them to Austin Jackson, while leaving Smith unproven, untradeable, and undeveloped is the epitome of foolish.

Frayed Knot Sep 10 2018 09:47 PM Re: Let's call up Dom Smith

I'm assuming they'll hold Alonso down in the minors for a month or two to prevent his FA clock from starting. It's what they do. and if they didn't bring him up when he was raging hot this year they'll wait to bring him up next year. I'm betting they trade Dom Smith this winter for a bag of balls, and roll with Bruce at first until Alonso comes up. A couple of things here: -- delaying call-ups a month to delay FA-gency ... "it's what they do" Not with Wheeler they didn't, calling him up in mid June Not with Rosario either (Aug) Not Reyes (June - plus he had <1/2 season of AA by that April) Not Wright (July) Not Conforto (Aug) Not Dom Smith (Aug) Not Nimmo (end of June) Not d'Arnaud (Aug) Not Harvey (end of July) Not Matz (end of June) The closest arguments you've got for that is either Syndergaard or deGrom - both in mid May, or about a month after necessary to gain one FA year. But deGrom was barely even a prospect at the time so there was no reason for that to factor into the decision, so we're down to maybe Syndergaard among the current group as he was at least a top-15 prospect that winter with a full year of AAA under his belt. The other is that I think we're in danger of falling into the 'prospect fatigue' trap with Dom to the point where we've already moved on to the next pretty young thing to come along. They're very different players so it's tough to ever compare the two even though they play the same position. But the idea that many have given up on the younger of the two (Smith) and believe that the older / lower drafted / worse fielder one is already so good that he's being unfairly held back which can only be the result of the delayed FA maneuver is stretching things more than a bit. Alonso had a very nice half-season with the bat in Bingo and a slightly lesser second half in Vegas (though with more power ... but it's Vegas) for a player where his bat is said to be his only asset. The obvious answer has to do with the 40-man roster and Alonso not needing to be protected this winter (meaning someone else can be) and the fact that, yes, they have other folks to try at 1B right now. Bruce is under contract and is also a better bet to hit next year than Alonso. Look, I hope the guy goes on to have a great career but some seem to believe that this is already a done deal. He's simply not the kind of prospect you move things around for simply to delay the possibility that holding control of his rights in the season seven years from now is going to be a valuable asset -- Ike Davis anyone? -- even if the team did have a track record of doing such stuff (which they don't appear to).

41Forever Sep 11 2018 01:10 AM Re: Let's call up Dom Smith

Good points!

Ceetar Sep 11 2018 01:01 PM Re: Let's call up Dom Smith

man, Bruce is garbage at first (and in the outfield) and I'd hate for them to do it, but you probably get the best return trading Alonso and just rolling with that. or someone else (David Wright?)

Centerfield Sep 11 2018 02:16 PM Re: Let's call up Dom Smith

I'm assuming they'll hold Alonso down in the minors for a month or two to prevent his FA clock from starting. It's what they do. and if they didn't bring him up when he was raging hot this year they'll wait to bring him up next year. I'm betting they trade Dom Smith this winter for a bag of balls, and roll with Bruce at first until Alonso comes up. A couple of things here: -- delaying call-ups a month to delay FA-gency ... "it's what they do" Not with Wheeler they didn't, calling him up in mid June Not with Rosario either (Aug) Not Reyes (June - plus he had <1/2 season of AA by that April) Not Wright (Julhttp://www.thecranepool.net/phpBB/viewforum.php?f=2y) Not Conforto (Aug) Not Dom Smith (Aug) Not Nimmo (end of June) Not d'Arnaud (Aug) Not Harvey (end of July) Not Matz (end of June) The closest arguments you've got for that is either Syndergaard or deGrom - both in mid May, or about a month after necessary to gain one FA year. But deGrom was barely even a prospect at the time so there was no reason for that to factor into the decision, so we're down to maybe Syndergaard among the current group as he was at least a top-15 prospect that winter with a full year of AAA under his belt. The other is that I think we're in danger of falling into the 'prospect fatigue' trap with Dom to the point where we've already moved on to the next pretty young thing to come along. They're very different players so it's tough to ever compare the two even though they play the same position. But the idea that many have given up on the younger of the two (Smith) and believe that the older / lower drafted / worse fielder one is already so good that he's being unfairly held back which can only be the result of the delayed FA maneuver is stretching things more than a bit. Alonso had a very nice half-season with the bat in Bingo and a slightly lesser second half in Vegas (though with more power ... but it's Vegas) for a player where his bat is said to be his only asset. The obvious answer has to do with the 40-man roster and Alonso not needing to be protected this winter (meaning someone else can be) and the fact that, yes, they have other folks to try at 1B right now. Bruce is under contract and is also a better bet to hit next year than Alonso. Look, I hope the guy goes on to have a great career but some seem to believe that this is already a done deal. He's simply not the kind of prospect you move things around for simply to delay the possibility that holding control of his rights in the season seven years from now is going to be a valuable asset -- Ike Davis anyone? -- even if the team did have a track record of doing such stuff (which they don't appear to). Maybe I'm not understanding the conversation between you two, but I look at your list and I feel like most of them were delayed a year. I mean, I guess you could argue over what "delay" means. I think the point is that the timing of the call up insures that the club gets 6+ seasons of control rather than just 6 (making the club out of spring training) or less than 6 (calling up the player in April). Every player on your list had 6+ years of control.

Benjamin Grimm Sep 11 2018 02:26 PM Re: Let's call up Dom Smith

I was a little surprised that Rosario came up in late 2017 instead of May 2018, but yeah, he's a 6-plus guy too. It's just that his "plus" isn't as lengthy as that of deGrom or Syndergaard. I don't recall the last time a highly regarded prospect made the Opening Day roster with no prior big league experience. There was Doc Gooden, but I doubt that he was the most recent example. It makes sense to do that delay. Sure, Alonso may be just a dim memory by 2025, but if having someone else hold the position for April of 2019 gives you that extra year of control, why not do it?

Ceetar Sep 11 2018 02:39 PM Re: Let's call up Dom Smith

Scott Kingery of the Phillies made the team out of Spring Training.. ...but he signed a long term contract to do so.

smg58 Sep 11 2018 07:16 PM Re: Let's call up Dom Smith

Ceetar wrote: Scott Kingery of the Phillies made the team out of Spring Training.. ...but he signed a long term contract to do so. And it turns out he sucks.

smg58 Sep 11 2018 07:18 PM Re: Let's call up Dom Smith

Benjamin Grimm wrote: Sure, Alonso may be just a dim memory by 2025, but if having someone else hold the position for April of 2019 gives you that extra year of control, why not do it? It might cost you meaningful games.

Frayed Knot Sep 11 2018 07:19 PM Re: Let's call up Dom Smith

Maybe I'm not understanding the conversation between you two, but I look at your list and I feel like most of them were delayed a year. I mean, I guess you could argue over what "delay" means. I think the point is that the timing of the call up insures that the club gets 6+ seasons of control rather than just 6 (making the club out of spring training) or less than 6 (calling up the player in April). Every player on your list had 6+ years of control. The way I'm thinking about "delay" is when a player is ready to be called up but the team bumps him until the following mid-April in order to (theoretically) gain an extra year of club control. So neither Smith nor Rosario would have been on 2017's team by this way of thinking unless ones believes they were ready in April 2017 (which neither clearly was). And if the others noted above were only being delayed for control purposes then there was no point in waiting until June, or July, or August, etc., because that additional two, three, four months gains you nothing. The classic manipulation/delay case in recent years was with the Cubs and Kris Bryant. The baseball season, for accounting purposes, is 182 days long (I guess now it's 186 with the revised calendar) but anyone logging at least 170 on the ML roster gets credit for the entire season. So the Cubs took Bryant -- a #2 overall draft pick from a major college program and a top five prospect across the board -- and "decided" he needed more seasoning in the minors ... two weeks more seasoning to be exact, and they pretty much telegraphed the fact that that's exactly what they were going to do ahead of time. Scott Boras objected but he was powerless to prevent it. And, btw, this whole mid-April thing only matters if the player stays in the majors for good once being brought up, something that's tough to know ahead of time in each case. So Smith and Rosario, for instance, already have different ML service times under their belts despite being called up almost simultaneously. To summarize my overall point(s): * I disagree with the notion that Dom is already past his sell-by date to the point where his worth has decreased to 'bag of balls' level. We fans tend to lose patience with rookies and are only too quick to on to the next pretty young thing forgetting why we liked the first girl in the first place * that Dom doesn't much matter because Alonso has surpassed him anyway and is the clear best choice for 1B in 2019, over Smith or a host of other candidates -- this might turn out to be the case, but it's hardly carved in stone and is a long shot bet at best IMO * that the reason Alonso hasn't been called up so far is because mgmt is desperate to manipulate control over him thru 2025 -- I don't even think that's A factor right now and it certainly isn't THE factor * but it must be the reason because the cheap-ass Mets do this all the time -- No they don't

Benjamin Grimm Sep 11 2018 07:43 PM Re: Let's call up Dom Smith

smg58 wrote: Benjamin Grimm wrote: Sure, Alonso may be just a dim memory by 2025, but if having someone else hold the position for April of 2019 gives you that extra year of control, why not do it? It might cost you meaningful games. I doubt that the difference between Peter Alonso and Wilmer Flores over a course of about 15 games is likely to make much of a difference. And those 15 games could net you 162 games in 2025. And I know that there's no way of knowing if we'll care about this at all in 2025, but I think the delay is a worthwhile gambit.

smg58 Sep 11 2018 07:45 PM Re: Let's call up Dom Smith

Centerfield wrote: Bruce will never be able to rehabilitate his trade value enough that someone will take him off our hands. Bruce has a .277/.358/.532 line since his return. He was playing hurt in the first part of the season, and he's not playing hurt now. Somebody will find that desirable. Perhaps even the Mets. There's no reason to take pennies on the dollar for him. And we know that because he's been playing regularly. Smith's outfield defense is not reassuring yet, and he still hasn't hit consistently on this level, but the ability is there. You do want to play him enough to figure out where he stands going into the offseason as well. There's no reason to take pennies on the dollar for him, either. Jackson is only facing lefties at this point, which is fine.

smg58 Sep 11 2018 07:48 PM Re: Let's call up Dom Smith

Benjamin Grimm wrote: Benjamin Grimm wrote: Sure, Alonso may be just a dim memory by 2025, but if having someone else hold the position for April of 2019 gives you that extra year of control, why not do it? It might cost you meaningful games. I doubt that the difference between Peter Alonso and Wilmer Flores over a course of about 15 games is likely to make much of a difference. And those 15 games could net you 162 games in 2025. And I know that there's no way of knowing if we'll care about this at all in 2025, but I think the delay is a worthwhile gambit. I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you. But it's possible that we get to the end of next spring and it's really obvious that Alonso is your best option at first right now.

Ceetar Sep 11 2018 07:51 PM Re: Let's call up Dom Smith

smg58 wrote: I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you. But it's possible that we get to the end of next spring and it's really obvious that Alonso is your best option at first right now. There is zero chance meaningless spring training games can make that obvious. It's just garbage time. It doesn't mean anything. Flores is slighly above average, so even if Alonso was magically going to be a 6 win player (unlikely) missing most of April, less than 1/6th the season, won't even cost you one win.

Centerfield Sep 11 2018 08:07 PM Re: Let's call up Dom Smith

Frayed Knot wrote: * I disagree with the notion that Dom is already past his sell-by date to the point where his worth has decreased to 'bag of balls' level. We fans tend to lose patience with rookies and are only too quick to on to the next pretty young thing forgetting why we liked the first girl in the first place Yeah. Not even close. That's why the Mets should be playing him. And if they don't play him, no reason to trade him when his trade value is shot. Frayed Knot wrote: * that Dom doesn't much matter because Alonso has surpassed him anyway and is the clear best choice for 1B in 2019, over Smith or a host of other candidates -- this might turn out to be the case, but it's hardly carved in stone and is a long shot bet at best IMO Yup. Alonso might come up and be terrible. I don't think so, the peripherals on Alonso are pretty good from what I've read. But you never know until he's in the bigs. (and even then it will likely take some time) Frayed Knot wrote: * that the reason Alonso hasn't been called up so far is because mgmt is desperate to manipulate control over him thru 2025 -- I don't even think that's A factor right now and it certainly isn't THE factor I certainly think it is A factor. I think having to protect him in the Rule 5 is a big one. Maybe the main one. Frayed Knot wrote: * but it must be the reason because the cheap-ass Mets do this all the time -- No they don't I don't think getting an extra year of control suggests "cheap". I think it's smart strategy. It goes against the player's benefit, but as BG says, it's a good bet to give away one month in 2019 for an entire year in 2025.

Edgy MD Sep 11 2018 08:07 PM Re: Let's call up Dom Smith

What would ceetar do if the word "garbage" was suddenly unavailable?

Ceetar Sep 11 2018 09:08 PM Re: Let's call up Dom Smith

Edgy MD wrote: What would ceetar do if the word "garbage" was suddenly unavailable? confuse you with synonyms.

Frayed Knot Sep 11 2018 10:43 PM Re: Let's call up Dom Smith

Centerfield wrote: Frayed Knot wrote: * that the reason Alonso hasn't been called up so far is because mgmt is desperate to manipulate control over him thru 2025 -- I don't even think that's A factor right now and it certainly isn't THE factor I certainly think it is A factor. I think having to protect him in the Rule 5 is a big one. Maybe the main one. I think you're confusing rules here. Rule 5 doesn't have anything to do with this except that NOT bringing up Alonso now might help to prevent someone else from being exposed to Rule 5 this winter. Alonso isn't on the 40-man roster and doesn't have to be put on this winter (minor league service time, etc.). I actually DO think that's a factor in NOT bringing him up now. The NON factor IMO (or at least the much smaller one) is the idea that having Alonso under control seven years from now will even be a big deal at that point.

Centerfield Sep 12 2018 02:00 AM Re: Let's call up Dom Smith

Yes. That’s my understanding. If they leave him down they don’t have to protect him, freeing up that spot for someone else. If they bring him up, he’s on the 40. And someone else is left exposed. I think this, along with the free agency of 2025 are both factors.

Edgy MD Sep 12 2018 02:25 AM Re: Let's call up Dom Smith

Ceetar wrote: Edgy MD wrote: What would ceetar do if the word "garbage" was suddenly unavailable? confuse you with synonyms.

Frayed Knot Sep 12 2018 11:45 AM Re: Let's call up Dom Smith

I think this, along with the free agency of 2025 are both factors. As I've said, I think the first part is a piece of the puzzle while the second is, if anything, way down towards the bottom on the list of considerations. In general I think that whole planning a guy's call-up date so as to squeeze an extra year out of him stuff comes into play a whole lot less than often than is discussed. It's something teams do with the Bryce Harpers and Kris Bryants of the world: guys you believe are destined to be stars, that you know are ready, and you know will be installed as everyday players right off the bat. So then, yeah, it makes sense to plan the timing of their call-up so as to best suit your needs. Bryant had an Apr 17th debut, Harper was Apr 28, and we'll see how the Blue Jays handle little Vladdy next spring. But the Peter Alonsos of the world aren't in the same area code as those guys much less the same neighborhood, and there are so many other variables at work that's it's unlikely to matter in the long run. The Mets are going to have at least some of the same 1B issues next Spring that they have now -- what about Dom?; what about Wilmer?; what about our aging and under contract corner OFs (Bruce & Cespedes) or even our aging and under contract 3B for that matter? I'm not sure it's even money that Alonso will be a part-time starter next year much less be the guy tabbed as the obvious incumbent for years to come.

41Forever Sep 12 2018 12:13 PM Re: Let's call up Dom Smith

Good points. I was buying into the hype without taking a closer look.

seawolf17 Sep 12 2018 12:22 PM Re: Let's call up Dom Smith

Frayed Knot wrote: But the Peter Alonsos of the world aren't in the same area code as those guys much less the same neighborhood, and there are so many other variables at work that's it's unlikely to matter in the long run. I agree. He'll be 24 this winter. We're worried about what's going to happen when he's 30?

Centerfield Sep 12 2018 01:51 PM Re: Let's call up Dom Smith

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. In my opinion, an extra year of control has tremendous value. Even if the player is not the level of Kris Bryant. Another year of Daniel Murphy would have meant he broke out with the Mets, instead of the Nationals. The extra year we got from Wheeler means we don't have to make a decision about him until after next year. An extra year of Familia would have brought back much more in a trade than simply renting him out for 2 months. If d'Arnaud and Flores had broke camp with the club in 2013 instead of debuting mid-year, they would both be gone this year. You don't have to be a star for the extra year to have value. You just have to be a productive major league player. Basically, as long as your career doesn't crater (like Ike Davis), the club will want to keep you around. The Mets have already said they won't bring up Alonso this year. 40 man, getting him enough AB's, whatever. That is done. Now the decision will be whether he breaks camp with the team, or whether they wait a month (assuming he plays well in the spring). I can't say whether the decision to delay his free agency will be a consideration, but it absolutely, positively should. Do we want Peter Alonso under control for 6 years, or do we want him for 7 years minus April? Easy choice in my book.

Frayed Knot Sep 12 2018 06:10 PM Re: Let's call up Dom Smith

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. In my opinion, an extra year of control has tremendous value. Even if the player is not the level of Kris Bryant. Sure there's value in getting an extra year of control, but it can't be the deciding factor in the call-up timing of every Tom, Dick, and Harry prospect that comes down the pike. You bring up guys when they're needed, hopefully also at a time which coincides with them being ready, but not at a time which hopefully / maybe works out seven years from now. Carry the deadline-FA notion to its logical conclusion and no one would ever get called up after May because there'd always be the lure of delaying until the end of the following April. Was Muffy's mid-season call-up, for instance, a half-season too early which prevented us from that 'extra' season out of him, or was his final season in Queens the extra one we got out of not calling him up months earlier? And is it great that we have one more year out of Wheeler or short-sighted that we don't have two? And the same could be said -- moving the timeline either way -- for Familia, d'Arnaud, Flores, or just about anyone. So I'll put it this way: IF whoever is running this ship this winter decides that Alonso's time is now and that he's ready to be the everyday starting 1B going forward, and IF he takes all the other proactive actions (dumps Smith, Wilmer, Bruce, whoever) to make sure the path is clear by spring 2019, then, by all means, count off 12 days from Opening Day (or maybe it's 16 now) before making the call. And if he's a good, serviceable player a half-dozen years from now without ever seeing the minors again then those two weeks of having Jay Horowitz playing 1st base in the interim will have absolutely been worth it. My point is that there are just not a lot of players who pre-fit that kind of action and that teams will miss a lot more than they gain by allowing their call-up decisions to be influenced by FA deadlines. And, remember, this discussion essentially started over the idea that Fred wanting to squeeze an extra year (and therefore save future money) out of Alonso was the only reason he wasn't called up two months ago when he so obviously deserved it. Talk about your ownership meddling!!.

Centerfield Sep 19 2018 05:23 PM Re: Let's call up Dom Smith

Dom Smith. .892 OPS post all-star break. Small sample size? Misleading production during meaningless September games? Breakout star?

Ceetar Sep 19 2018 05:45 PM Re: Let's call up Dom Smith

Centerfield wrote: Dom Smith. .892 OPS post all-star break. Small sample size? Misleading production during meaningless September games? Breakout star? first one. I don't think it's misleading, it's nice to see him driving the ball a bit at least. but he's still not walking, so..

Edgy MD Sep 19 2018 05:53 PM Re: Let's call up Dom Smith

He's done good enough to stay in the picture, certainly. The minor problem is that the team's desire to get another look at him, combined with their desire to also get Bruce some time at first, has totally marginalized Flores the last third of the season. Due to no particularly fault of his own, Wilmer has picked a lot of splinters, after being perhaps the team's best hitter for six weeks or so in the middle of the season. In my mind, he would still (if only just) be the leader on the first base depth chart if the Mets weren't playing out the string, though he slumped in the weeks before his benching. I would guess he's going to be traded this offseason. Smith then gains the top slot unless/until they acquire a new outfielder, which would push Bruce firstwise. Bruce could see a trade as well.

Vic Sage Sep 19 2018 06:04 PM Re: Let's call up Dom Smith

over the last 2 weeks, i'd like to see Bruce and Smith play every day (one at 1b, the other in RF). If they hit, they'll be reestablishing their value for possible trade; if they don't... well, there value couldn't get much lower anyway.