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A Man Devoid Of Honor

John Cougar Lunchbucket Jul 17 2018 01:57 PM

Hey I must have been snoozing over this whole Nick Francona thing, but as it turns out the son of Terry Francona was a Met front office employee now saying he was abruptly fired when he went off the rails criticizing the way MLB was approaching the charitable donations around the Memorial Day (aka GI Joke) unis. Francona (a former Marine, previously fired by the Dodgers for controversy in their front office) has since become a folk hero among self-hating Met twitterers for lashing out at the org for his unjust whacking -- for example, criticizing player development and whatnot. You'll also find him criticizing other teams for their lack of respect for our Military Heroes. Without knowing too much, and being insensitive the real issues vets face, this guy appears symptomatic of a diseased and centrifugal wartorn US culture that promotes the idea of the military as some kind of sacred cow, only to double over on itself the degree of sacredness. https://nypost.com/2018/07/16/ex-mets-a ... ly-firing/ https://twitter.com/NickFrancona

G-Fafif Jul 17 2018 02:29 PM Re: A Man Devoid Of Honor

This is how MLB treats families of the fallen on Memorial Day. @Mets players wore memorial bracelets. AFTERWARDS, MLB wanted the families we worked with to sign insulting forms that referred to them as "Licensees" who received "valuable consideration." I refused to even ask. This need to signal patriotism loudly but only superficially is why we have @MLB turning baseball games into “patriotic” orgies, while telling veterans they won’t hire them because their guard/reserve duty is a problem. Except when a senior official from @MLB Commissioner’s office calls and says, “Hey Ken [Rosenthal], we could really use a puff piece on our Memorial Day program and the charitable donations. People are asking some tough questions.” Then his job is: “Yes sir, right away.” [...]if @MLB found a way to sell the 9/11 caps and make money off of them, they would do it in a second. Francona's feed, when it addresses issues like those referenced above, strikes me more as truth spoken to power from a specific perspective than demanding special reverence for one segment of the population over all others.

Ceetar Jul 17 2018 02:45 PM Re: A Man Devoid Of Honor

I couldn't really figure out what that was. They just covering their butts with the licensee thing right? And "I refused to even ask" is certainly grounds for dismissal. I mean, he's right about the garbage patriotism but I don't believe they're getting hard questions, or necessarily refusing veterans based on reserve duty? I don't know what that means? What is he insinuating?

Edgy MD Jul 17 2018 02:51 PM Re: A Man Devoid Of Honor

He was assistant director of player development. The empty and exploitative red-white-and-bluing of baseball is real and should be challenged. But if I was assistant director of player development, I'd work quietly from the inside or leave and then make my stink. Publicly embarrassing the chiefs was only going to lead one way. But more power to him going forward. He's a third-generation baseball legacy and that's not a platform that will go away. He's the son of a future Hall-of-Famer!

John Cougar Lunchbucket Jul 17 2018 02:55 PM Re: A Man Devoid Of Honor

G-Fafif wrote: This is how MLB treats families of the fallen on Memorial Day. @Mets players wore memorial bracelets. AFTERWARDS, MLB wanted the families we worked with to sign insulting forms that referred to them as "Licensees" who received "valuable consideration." I refused to even ask. This need to signal patriotism loudly but only superficially is why we have @MLB turning baseball games into “patriotic” orgies, while telling veterans they won’t hire them because their guard/reserve duty is a problem. Except when a senior official from @MLB Commissioner’s office calls and says, “Hey Ken [Rosenthal], we could really use a puff piece on our Memorial Day program and the charitable donations. People are asking some tough questions.” Then his job is: “Yes sir, right away.” [...]if @MLB found a way to sell the 9/11 caps and make money off of them, they would do it in a second. Francona's feed, when it addresses issues like those referenced above, strikes me more as truth spoken to power from a specific perspective than demanding special reverence for one segment of the population over all others. Perhaps but it's a very specific perspective, obviously larded with a separate chip-on-shoulder. Hard to imagine this is a voice that wouldn't also be offended were MLB not to bother with the veteran dog-and-pony show, and the shots at player development and so forth indicate this might not have been the only issue in his whacking(s), just the only issue raised.

G-Fafif Jul 17 2018 02:59 PM Re: A Man Devoid Of Honor

His player development critique doesn't sound unfamiliar. And I don't know what he would say about hypothetical scenarios. I found his feed last week and scrolled back some. Didn't strike me as overly aggrieved or hopelessly myopic.

Centerfield Jul 17 2018 05:28 PM Re: A Man Devoid Of Honor

Are we attributing these negative traits to him because he was fired twice? Or is there something here I am missing? The guy could be a jerk or he may not be, but I can’t see how that conclusion can be drawn based on anything presented here.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Jul 17 2018 05:33 PM Re: A Man Devoid Of Honor

you guys may or not be missing the throwback thread title.

Edgy MD Jul 17 2018 05:38 PM Re: A Man Devoid Of Honor

That thread is likely lost to history, but I did find this: http://archives.thecranepool.net/4400/f1_t4414.shtml

seawolf17 Jul 17 2018 05:41 PM Re: A Man Devoid Of Honor

Edgy MD wrote: That thread is likely lost to history, but I did find this: http://archives.thecranepool.net/4400/f1_t4414.shtml Speaking of old posters, remember that time we all realized that it was "capital-I"-ubitul, not "lowercase-L"-ubitul?

Benjamin Grimm Jul 17 2018 05:42 PM Re: A Man Devoid Of Honor

That totally blew my mind!

John Cougar Lunchbucket Jul 17 2018 05:43 PM Re: A Man Devoid Of Honor

A long time ago, this guy cruised probably dozens, maybe hundreds of message board positing the same tale of corruption in the Old Brookville Police Department. I am kind of reluctant to be harsh, but based on my personal experience, I can affirm without reservation, ADA Frank Quigley is a loathsome citizen. https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/copssuc ... -t461.html

41Forever Jul 17 2018 06:51 PM Re: A Man Devoid Of Honor

I know I'm in the minority here, but I kind of like the patriotic stuff. I haven't necessarily liked all the particular designs, but I did like this year's caps and bought one.

Edgy MD Jul 17 2018 06:59 PM Re: A Man Devoid Of Honor

There's nothing wrong with liking to see displays of patriotism. Those are real vets out there. The issue is the cynical and untransparent relationships, agreements, and money behind them, along with the heavy-handed enforcement from league offices. Among other things, it's the reason the Mets were strongarmed into no longer wearing the first responder caps on September 11th, and the reason management rolled over.

Centerfield Jul 17 2018 07:13 PM Re: A Man Devoid Of Honor

My thoughts: *Nothing wrong with displays of patriotism. *Nothing wrong with liking displays of patriotism. I'm one of those people. *Nothing wrong with questioning if the money generated by displays of patriotism actually end up helping veterans instead of ending up in the pockets of MLB and New Era. Though, if you work for an MLB team, you should probably question through private channels rather than broadcasting on social media. *Nothing wrong with an MLB team terminating an employee for publicly challenging whether funds reach veterans, especially if that employee had no basis to imply that the money wasn't reaching the stated target.

Frayed Knot Jul 17 2018 08:50 PM Re: A Man Devoid Of Honor

Edgy MD wrote: There's nothing wrong with liking to see displays of patriotism. Those are real vets out there. The issue is the cynical and untransparent relationships, agreements, and money behind them, along with the heavy-handed enforcement from league offices. Or from the NFL which, it was eventually revealed, was flat-out selling their patriotic 'displays' which were nothing more than bought and paid for advertisements by the U.S. gov't (aka: your tax dollars at work) gussied up to look like tribute.

Ceetar Jul 17 2018 09:03 PM Re: A Man Devoid Of Honor

Frayed Knot wrote: There's nothing wrong with liking to see displays of patriotism. Those are real vets out there. The issue is the cynical and untransparent relationships, agreements, and money behind them, along with the heavy-handed enforcement from league offices. Or from the NFL which, it was eventually revealed, was flat-out selling their patriotic 'displays' which were nothing more than bought and paid for advertisements by the U.S. gov't (aka: your tax dollars at work) gussied up to look like tribute. I think that's what Nick is asserting for the MLB. Probably true, even if it's 5% less true or whatever. Also seems true that no one really cares.

G-Fafif Jul 21 2018 03:32 PM Re: A Man Devoid Of Honor

Francona talks to Howard Bryant. "They were having Marine Week in Boston, and it was a pretty big deal," Nick says. "They had wanted me to throw out the first pitch at Fenway during one of the games. It would’ve been a good story of having the manager’s son being a Marine and throwing out a first pitch at Fenway. But I was horribly uncomfortable with that and didn't think I had done anything to deserve that and gave them a firm pass on that one." After he left the service, Nick worked in baseball for the Angels, Dodgers and Mets. Ostensibly, he was a liaison to veterans. But what was being sold to the public as patriotism felt like commercialism. What Bill Astore wrote outside of the game, Nick Francona felt working within it. Camo jerseys. Corporate sponsorship of service, without the authenticity of service. The veterans felt like props. "And, I mean, if you look at kind of the tone of what Memorial Day has become about, it’s pretty gross," Nick says. "Even on the teams’ official Twitter accounts — a flame emoji for, like, 'Look how hot these camo hats are.' And it's, like, 'Really, guys? That's the plan?' I mean, you can imagine how some of these Gold Star families reacted to that. They were not remotely amused. "I might have asked the question 100 times and said, 'OK, if you’re selling a $40 hat, how much of this is going to charity, and where is it going?' I think it’s fair to say, if you’re an average fan watching Major League Baseball, you’re going to be, like, ‘Man these guys are really supportive of the military.’ " This support, Nick says, does not exist within MLB. According to the league’s figures, only 10 of the league’s 5,000 employees are veterans. "That's genuinely difficult to accomplish," Nick says. "Like, if your goal was to hire as few veterans as possible, that's pretty impressive. I’m almost certain that there’s more than 10. But they’ve really gone out of their way to avoid being able to even identify the veterans. I’ve been arguing that for 10 years. Like, 'Figure out who they are, so we can support each other and link up and try to address some of these issues.' And they patently refused to be involved in that." Working with the Mets, one moment defined his frustrations. He created a Memorial Day program where he matched players with Gold Star families from similar backgrounds. The players recorded videos that told the stories of the fallen. Players, he says, were emotional learning the stories of the dead soldiers from America’s wars. They wore bracelets naming soldiers they were matched with. It was authentic and personal, appropriately respectful of a day commemorating sacrifice. "So I’m on the flight back, and I get an email from someone with the Mets asking, like, 'Oh, great job. Now we need to get all the families to sign these waivers, to waive the rights as licensees for the bracelets that these guys wore.' And I’m, like, 'Whoa, whoa, whoa, were not ... like, absolutely not.' "They referred to them as 'license holders.' The families. And I'm, like, 'I think you mean parent of dead marine or soldier.' Patently offensive. And there was no way I was going to have them sign that and refused to do so. I wanted to know exactly whose bright idea this was and was going to give them a piece of my mind. And that ended it pretty quickly. And the next day was my last day there. "They called me in and said, ‘You’ve done a great job here, really had a huge impact. You’ve also had a big impact on the veteran stuff with Major League Baseball, but your comments aren’t compatible with having a career in baseball. So we're going to have to part ways.’ " The Mets fired him. Nick Francona is now out of baseball. "I’m certainly not happy about not working in baseball. It was my dream job, and I was good at it. And the people that fired me, ironically, told me I was very good at it. It sucks. Even thinking about it, I wouldn’t go back and say, 'I wish I had just compromised my principles a little more so I could succeed here.' Like, if that’s the price of success, I’ll find something else. I think it’s sad. And I think it speaks volumes about the state of Major League Baseball."

Edgy MD Jul 21 2018 08:22 PM Re: A Man Devoid Of Honor

If it's true that only 10 out of 5,000 MLB employees are veterans, how remarkable that one of them was until, very recently, the GM of the team that fired him. The message, as always, is don't tweet.

Fman99 Jul 22 2018 12:21 PM Re: A Man Devoid Of Honor

Everyone's workplace is dysfunctional. That's not really an outlier. This guy probably should have tried to fix it from within the context of the system, as opposed to "honest talking" his way right out of the league. You can tweet, but, ya know, maybe use an alias or something.