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The McCourt Treatment

Centerfield Jul 26 2018 03:46 PM

Is starting to pick up some steam. https://deadspin.com/how-bad-does-it-ha ... 1827876806 There have been many opportunities for the league to act where the Wilpons are concerned, but first Selig and then Manfred have repeatedly refused to do so. They didn’t act when the Wilpons leveraged the team to Jupiter to cover the debts they ran up after being hornswoggled by Bernie Madoff; the Wilpons were in violation of the same debt-limit rules as McCourt when the league forced him out in Los Angeles and are still servicing the debt they ran up borrowing against the team and its cable channel, SNY. The league also didn’t act when the front office was characterized as a hotbed of profoundly rank sexual discrimination driven by Jeff Wilpon, owner Fred’s son and the team’s chief operating officer. In many ways and for many reasons and for many years, the people that own the Mets obviously can’t be trusted to run a Major League Baseball team—not just trusted by the legions of defiant masochists who have stuck by the team but, more saliently, by the other image-conscious rich guys that own teams, and who know that the health of the league depends in no small part on the National League franchise in the nation’s largest media market not being run like a skunk-infested Quiznos franchise. It’s tempting to chalk that inaction up to the unfailing class solidarity that prevails among rich turds, even though the Mets owners don’t seem very good at being rich. There’s a great deal that’s unknown about the team’s finances, but none of that really has any bearing on the question of whether Manfred should consider taking some action. What we can see is argument enough.

Edgy MD Jul 26 2018 03:49 PM Re: The McCourt Treatment

I'm not sure anything in that essay suggests that steam is building up.

Centerfield Jul 26 2018 03:51 PM Re: The McCourt Treatment

No, not at the Commish's office. "Steam" as in others around the nation are starting to chime in. Not just Mets fans.

Ceetar Jul 26 2018 04:01 PM Re: The McCourt Treatment

we really want to talk about this again? I know I don't. It's not happening. If there was cause as the Madoff money was getting locked up and litigated, that's long past. MLB has shown no indication it's going to force a sale because of 'bad faith' owners or whatever that means, and the Mets wouldn't even be first in line.

Lefty Specialist Jul 26 2018 04:04 PM Re: The McCourt Treatment

Pretty sure Bud left a message in his desk drawer for Manfred that read, "Don't do anything to the Wilpons, no matter what."

Centerfield Jul 26 2018 04:07 PM Re: The McCourt Treatment

Lefty Specialist wrote: Pretty sure Bud left a message in his desk drawer for Manfred that read, "Don't do anything to the Wilpons, no matter what." Yup.

d'Kong76 Jul 26 2018 04:08 PM Re: The McCourt Treatment

Ceetar wrote: we really want to talk about this again? Put me down for a resounding yes.

Edgy MD Jul 26 2018 04:13 PM Re: The McCourt Treatment

I find that rooting for the Wilpons to be unilaterally divested of the team is a lot more futile than rooting for the team to win. Even this season.

d'Kong76 Jul 26 2018 04:19 PM Re: The McCourt Treatment

Not sure I'm rooting for it, more hoping that it happens in my lifetime. It's not something I'm consumed with, but it would be nice if they go the fuck away already.

Centerfield Jul 26 2018 04:34 PM Re: The McCourt Treatment

we really want to talk about this again? I know I don't. It's not happening. If there was cause as the Madoff money was getting locked up and litigated, that's long past. MLB has shown no indication it's going to force a sale because of 'bad faith' owners or whatever that means, and the Mets wouldn't even be first in line. If you don't want to talk about it, feel free not to talk about it. I want to talk about it. And I want others to talk about it. And I want the conversation to get so deafening that Manfred feels he has no choice but to respond, then address, then ultimately act. Is it likely? No. It may not even be possible. But all I can do is try. I don't understand any Mets fan's motivation in defending the Wilpons. The press, I get it. They need access. But fans? Fans want the team to win. Unfortunately: 1. The Mets don't win nearly as much as they should be winning. As pointed out in the other thread, it's hard to fathom how much they have consistently lost. 2. There is a mountain of evidence that the single biggest reason for their failure to win is the Wilpons. Why wouldn't a logical fan want to remove that obstacle? It's like there is some inability by some to make the distinction that rooting for your favorite team doesn't mean you have to root for that team's owners. That it's inconceivable that an owner's objective and a fan's objective may not be in line. You wonder if these people have watched Major League.

Centerfield Jul 26 2018 04:47 PM Re: The McCourt Treatment

Edgy MD wrote: I find that rooting for the Wilpons to be unilaterally divested of the team is a lot more futile than rooting for the team to win. Even this season. Yes. Without a doubt. But I try anyway. Rooting for the DH to be abolished. Rooting for Trump to be impeached. Rooting for term limits for Congress, and for campaign finance reform so that candidates can't be bought. Rooting for the orange dot on the blue hat to be eliminated. All lost causes probably, but I root anyway. It took until I was well into adulthood, but eventually I recognized that the biggest obstacle for the Star Wars franchise was George Lucas. They also said he'd never sell. Then one day it happened. Say what you want about Disney, and what they've done, but unquestionably, that franchise is in much better hands than it was with Lucas at the helm.

Gwreck Jul 26 2018 05:11 PM Re: The McCourt Treatment

Ceetar wrote: we really want to talk about this again? Yes. Very much yes. The Mets need a cultural change badly. I believe this can not happen with the Wilpons as owners. Then again, I guess the Mets CAN win despite the Wilpons. After all, they’ve won the division twice in the last 30 seasons.

A Boy Named Seo Jul 26 2018 05:43 PM Re: The McCourt Treatment

I'd be happy for Manfred to field questions on the Wilpons every time he steps in front of a podium or a room full of reporters. That MLB did nothing but loan the Wilpons money post-Madoff doesn't mean that the league should do nothing about them now.

41Forever Jul 26 2018 09:02 PM Re: The McCourt Treatment Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Jul 27 2018 01:31 PM

This is going to get me branded a Wilpon apologist. But I think I'm more of a realist. The situation with the McCourts was vastly different than the situation with the Wilpons. 1. The Mets don't win nearly as much as they should be winning. As pointed out in the other thread, it's hard to fathom how much they have consistently lost. 2. There is a mountain of evidence that the single biggest reason for their failure to win is the Wilpons. Point one is a bit subjective, especially when they've been to the World Series and the postseason twice in four years. I saw the charts about sustained winning in the other posts. Yes, I wish they would win more often. But it's not like they haven't spent big in the past, or even in the recent past. How many $100 million contracts are on the team now, two? How would the team look now with a healthy Wright and Cespedes, and if they were playing at their career norms? Pretty different, I think. The Wilpons didn't hurt Wright's back and Cespedes' legs and heels. If I were Manfred looking at franchises that needed intervention, I'd look at the Mets and see a team that, while not winning as often as it could and should, has had success. He'd see a relatively new stadium. He'd see relatively good attendance. He'd see what I suspect are decent television ratings. He'd see a team with star players, at least when they are not getting foot and mouth disease and ring worm and whatever the hell else is keeping them off the field this week. None of that means that we can't be frustrated and angry and want to see better players, or at least the players we have remain healthy. It doesn't mean we can't be pissed if the team isn't in the running for the Bryce Harpers. We can be pissed that they took the Mr. Met patch off the blue jersey. (That might be just me. I liked the Mr. Met patch.) But while those are the things we care about, I suspect they are not the things the commissioner is concerned about to the point where he will intervene. Not gonna happen. He's probably more worried about Miami in a new stadium drawing fewer fans than minor league teams down the road. Or the Rays and the A's playing in awful stadiums and not drawing fans. Again, do I not agree with them on everything, and I'm frustrated as a fan. I'm pissed off that we even have to discuss trading our top players. And maybe a change wouldn't be a bad thing. But I don't have the same visceral hatred for the owners that others have.

d'Kong76 Jul 26 2018 09:06 PM Re: The McCourt Treatment

That one game or bust should never be counted as post-season. Never. OE: oh, and prepare to be drawn and quartered...

batmagadanleadoff Jul 26 2018 09:31 PM Re: The McCourt Treatment

I don't even know where to start with this but for starters, without the David Wright insurance policy kicking in, no way the Mets sign Yoenis. So this idea that the Wilpons are paying out two $100M salaries simultaneously is bullshit. And Yoenis is also insured. And Jeff Wilpon has been quoted as saying that he's counting Wright's entire contract in calculating Mets payroll even though 75% of it is now covered by insurance. Two first place finishes in 30 seasons. What more do you need to know?

Edgy MD Jul 26 2018 10:47 PM Re: The McCourt Treatment

Plenty. I disagree with the suggestion that failure is sufficient evidence to establish malice.

batmagadanleadoff Jul 27 2018 12:09 AM Re: The McCourt Treatment

Good for you. You couldn't say a bad thing about the Mets with a gun to your head. That's grand. That the Wilpons aren't colossally incompetent baseball owners.

Edgy MD Jul 27 2018 12:19 AM Re: The McCourt Treatment

So now it's a character issue with me. Got it.

Mex17 Jul 27 2018 10:14 AM Re: The McCourt Treatment

Not to be overtly morbid, but the next checkpoint on this will be when Fred comes to his natural earthly end. Fred may have some personal equity with Manfred and the rest of the owners that Jeff does not have and will not carry down to Jeff once Fred is gone. So, it's conceivable (although not verifiable) that they are just waiting the situation out due to respect for the elder Wilpon.

Ceetar Jul 27 2018 01:21 PM Re: The McCourt Treatment

Mex17 wrote: Not to be overtly morbid, but the next checkpoint on this will be when Fred comes to his natural earthly end. Fred may have some personal equity with Manfred and the rest of the owners that Jeff does not have and will not carry down to Jeff once Fred is gone. So, it's conceivable (although not verifiable) that they are just waiting the situation out due to respect for the elder Wilpon. I think that very well may be the checkpoint, but more from finding out if Jeff really wants to be in this circle or if he has other aspirations and might want to ride into the sunset and do something else rather than own a baseball team. But that seems unlikely. Maybe he takes a step away and let's someone else within Sterling run things, but I doubt he decides to up and sell. He actually owns 4% of the team personally even.

metirish Jul 27 2018 01:55 PM Re: The McCourt Treatment

I think many generations of the Wilpon family will own the Mets, unfortunately .

MFS62 Jul 27 2018 02:02 PM Re: The McCourt Treatment

metirish wrote: I think many generations of the Wilpon family will own the Mets, unfortunately . We can only hope that one of them will genetically mutate into someone who cares about the team and its fans. Later

Centerfield Jul 27 2018 04:49 PM Re: The McCourt Treatment

Edgy MD wrote: Plenty. I disagree with the suggestion that failure is sufficient evidence to establish malice. Yeah. I don't think failure alone is enough to establish malice. But without rehashing everything, there are mountains of evidence of actual malice.

batmagadanleadoff Jul 27 2018 05:52 PM Re: The McCourt Treatment

Centerfield wrote: Edgy MD wrote: Plenty. I disagree with the suggestion that failure is sufficient evidence to establish malice. Yeah. I don't think failure alone is enough to establish malice. But without rehashing everything, there are mountains of evidence of actual malice. You don't need to establish malice. Not that there isn't any malice but isn't gross incompetence more than enough? Or do you some of youse wanna believe that two first place finishes in 30 years is nothing but bad luck? Just re read that 42 minute post on the history of Wilpon fuckery, which you already know all about. I'm sure as hell not gonna rehash the history for the infintieth time.

d'Kong76 Jul 27 2018 05:56 PM Re: The McCourt Treatment

batmagadanleadoff wrote: You don't need to establish malice. Not that there isn't any malice but isn't gross incompetence more than enough? Don't forget the penny pinching in the world's biggest market.

Lefty Specialist Jul 27 2018 08:03 PM Re: The McCourt Treatment

The time to do this was in 2011. The true dimensions of the Madoff nonsense were known by then, and they just let Jose Reyes walk away without an offer (different Reyes at that time, he'd just won a batting title). It was obvious that they didn't have enough cash to run the team like a major-league franchise. If they'd forced them to sell then it would have been defendable. Now it's too late. The Mets muddled through just well enough to keep the Wilpons in charge. They got a loan from MLB, weathered a sexual harassment charge that luckily occurred before #metoo, signed Wright to a contract that'll mostly be covered by insurance, got to the World Series like a blind squirrel finding a nut, and gradually refinanced their looming debt at favorable interest rates. They're entrenched and they're going nowhere. Sucks to be us.