Master Index of Archived Threads


Machado

Frayed Knot Oct 16 2018 05:25 PM

He's going to be a topic of conversation this winter, so let's kick it off with this (from the NY Post via an interview in The Athletic): “I’ve been thinking about [his non-hustling] and it happens every time, there’s no excuse for it honestly,” Machado said. “I’ve never given excuses for not running. I’m not hurt, there’s no excuse but I’ve been the same player. … I’ve been doing this for [seven] years, I’m in The Show for [seven] years, I’ve done the same thing for [seven] years, I’ve been the same player. “Obviously I’m not going to change, I’m not the type of player that’s going to be ‘Johnny Hustle,’ and run down the line and slide to first base and … you know, whatever can happen. That’s just not my personality, that’s not my cup of tea, that’s not who I am.” “Should I have run on that pitch?” he said of the fourth-inning ground ball in a 0-0 game, with his Dodgers then down 1-0 in the series to the Brewers. “Yeah … but I didn’t and I gotta pay the consequences for it. It does look bad. It looks terrible. I look back at the video and I’m like, ‘Woah, what was I doing?’ You know, just the emotions of the game … I’m the type of player that has stayed in the zone, I’m playing and I’m just in the zone. “… Should I have given it a little more effort? One hundred percent. [It’s] my fault like always, I mean that’s just my mentality when I’m in the game. [There are] things that you learn, things that you gotta change. I’ve tried changing it for eight years and I still can’t figure it out but, one of these days I will.” FK: I hadn't thought of him during his career as a non-hustler but apparently it's been an open secret and I don't think I've ever heard a player cop to it in quite that way. But his lack of hustle has been on full display during the post-season especially when he loafed on a tough infield grounder which he could have easily beat out but didn't particularly come close. And here I was thinking that Bryce Harper was the one looking bad down the stretch of his season and towards his FA-gency. btw, MM's career OPS is 126 points lower away from Camden Yards (887 vs 761)

Ceetar Oct 16 2018 07:48 PM Re: Machado

I have very little issue with not tearing down the line on 99.9999% outs. I have more of an issue with assault at second base, but he's still too good to stop me from coveting him.

Nymr83 Oct 16 2018 08:39 PM Re: Machado

Ceetar wrote: I have very little issue with not tearing down the line on 99.9999% outs. Ok sure, but even in the playoffs you cant bring yourself to care enough to run it out? Makes me worry a little what you'll do when you have the next 8 years gauranteed in the bank. Not worried enough that I wouldn't gladly sign him though.

Frayed Knot Oct 16 2018 08:53 PM Re: Machado Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Oct 17 2018 07:03 AM

I was just struck by the blatant, yet casual, way he dismisses that type of play. Yeah I don't hustle, never have ... I know it's wrong but that's just who I am ... Maybe I'll change but probably not ... Deal with it. I have no idea what "assault at second base" refers to.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Oct 17 2018 12:30 AM Re: Machado

Kinda struck me as brutally honest. I mean, it's not the best thing to hear from a professional ANYTHING... but it's shockingly self-aware for an athlete.

seawolf17 Oct 17 2018 05:19 AM Re: Machado

Maybe he's kind of a dick? http://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/2500 ... rty-player

batmagadanleadoff Oct 17 2018 05:40 AM Re: Machado

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote: Kinda struck me as brutally honest. I mean, it's not the best thing to hear from a professional ANYTHING... but it's shockingly self-aware for an athlete. He's an honest jackass is what he is. They should be busting g it down the line every single AB.

HahnSolo Oct 17 2018 06:34 AM Re: Machado

I missed it, but I guess Machado clipped Aguilar while "running" out a ground ball, leading to posturing, cleared benches, and an epic postgame burn from Craig Counsell When Brewers manager Craig Counsell was asked if Machado was going beyond the grounds of playing hard, he said, "I don't think he's playing all that hard."

d'Kong76 Oct 17 2018 06:42 AM Re: Machado

I apologize to FK, in my haste I EDITED his post instead of QUOTING it. I'll try and fix things later when I get back on. Sorry. OE: Sorry again, FK's added comment above italics is missing.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Oct 17 2018 06:45 AM Re: Machado

batmagadanleadoff wrote: LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote: Kinda struck me as brutally honest. I mean, it's not the best thing to hear from a professional ANYTHING... but it's shockingly self-aware for an athlete. He's an honest jackass is what he is. They should be busting g it down the line every single AB. Fall weather should be cool and pleasant. Presidents should have dignity and a measure of gravitas. THIS PACKAGE SHOULD HAVE BEEN HERE EARLIER. It's an imperfect world in which we're living and working and rage-Tweeting. I just thought it was unusual-- and almost refreshing... almost-- to hear a public figure (never mind a professional athlete in a contract year) honestly assessing himself. Not excusing his actions, or defending himself... just, y'know, saying. As if he were surprising himself as he said it. Yeah, I doubt the Aguilar thing was intentional.

d'Kong76 Oct 17 2018 06:53 AM Re: Machado

Yeah I don't hustle, never have ... I know it's wrong but that's just who I am ... Maybe I'll change but probably not ... Deal with it. Total turn off to my very core. If you don't care enough to run a ball out playing a kids game for tens of millions of dollars, why should we care enough to support you? This is stupid, because it's softball, but we had a game years ago with two outs down by one and man on second and third. Right-handed batter hits a high inside-out pop up to right field, runners go on contact, and he slams his bat down and yells SHIT, standing there feeling sorry for himself, and the right fielder boots the ball and throws the dickhead out at first for the loss.

Frayed Knot Oct 17 2018 07:00 AM Re: Machado

d'Kong76 wrote: I apologize to FK, in my haste I EDITED his post instead of QUOTING it. I'll try and fix things later when I get back on. Sorry. OE: Sorry again, FK's added comment above italics is missing. Eh, no biggie. I more or less remember what I wrote so I'll fix it.

Frayed Knot Oct 17 2018 07:01 AM Re: Machado

Yelich: “[Machado] is a player who has a history of those type of incidents. “One time is an accident, but if you repeat it over and over again you’re just a dirty player. It’s a dirty play by a dirty player. I have a lot of respect for him as a player, but you can’t respect somebody who plays the game like that.” And then, while walking away from the questioning, he added; “F–k that motherf—er”

Edgy MD Oct 17 2018 07:28 AM Re: Machado

d'Kong76 wrote: I apologize to FK, in my haste I EDITED his post instead of QUOTING it. I'll try and fix things later when I get back on. Sorry. OE: Sorry again, FK's added comment above italics is missing. That was such an Edgy move.

Ceetar Oct 17 2018 07:33 AM Re: Machado

Benjamin Grimm Oct 17 2018 07:34 AM Re: Machado

This is what happens when you get mentored by Chase Utley.

Centerfield Oct 17 2018 07:52 AM Re: Machado

Yeah, lots of red flags when looking at Machado for next year. The hustle thing definitely. Also the way he talks to the press. Some might find it refreshing that he's honest but that's a tough line to toe. You can definitely step into "abrasive" and then it's a nightmare with the media. But more substantively, you always have to wonder about a hitter that comes from a bandbox and what it might do to his numbers. He seems to have adjusted to LA ok and hit just fine there. But over his career he has some pretty drastic home-away splits. Plus he great in 2018 and 2016, but had a down year overall in 2017. Can you imagine if he signs a big money deal, has a sub .800 OPS, and doesn't hustle? He'd get destroyed by the fans and media. All the anti-[crossout]vaxxers[/crossout] payrollers would scream "See? Money doesn't equal winning!" It would set us back 20 years. Plus, he definitely has that aloof manner of playing that can get fans to turn on you even when you're producing. I've only seen him for a little bit, but he makes Cespedes and Beltran look like Shane Victorino.

Fman99 Oct 17 2018 08:27 AM Re: Machado

Now that people think he's a dickhead I think the Mets are more likely to go after him. They only ever make the unpopular moves.

Frayed Knot Oct 17 2018 08:32 AM Re: Machado

Centerfield wrote: Yeah, lots of red flags when looking at Machado for next year. The hustle thing definitely. Also the way he talks to the press. Plus there's the haircut.

Ceetar Oct 17 2018 08:45 AM Re: Machado

There was nothing 'non-hustle' about Carlos Beltran. .265 BABIP in 2017, and he still was above average and a contributor. I'm not particularly worried. His Hard Hit % in 2017 was top 2% in the league. Top 5% this year. He smashes the ball. HARD. Maybe it's more doubles and less home runs in a bigger park, but he hits the damn ball hard, and he doesn't strike out a ton. He had the 15th farthest HR in 2017 and the 65th this year and 2016. 444,470,453 in distance. He can get it out. Oh, and he's 26. He could get an 8 year deal and still basically be in his prime at the end of it. I hate that he's this type of player (there are other issues) saw this elsewhere: He also punched Yordano Ventura in the face piece, took out Dustin Pedroia (that slide was clean, IMO), hit Derek Norris with his backswings, cried when Josh Donaldson “swiped” at him with a tag...and probably more that I’ve forgotten. He strikes me as a AJ Pierzynski type, that guy who you like to play with but hate to play against, because he’s a butthole. The Mets need him. he's a great fit. It'd be a bad blow if he went to Philly or Atlanta.

Vic Sage Oct 17 2018 08:52 AM Re: Machado

Centerfield wrote: ...It would set us back 20 years... Well, that would be ok. 20 years ago, we got Piazza, then won the WC, then we appeared in the WS. It would be much worse if a Machado signing just left us where we were.

d'Kong76 Oct 17 2018 09:00 AM Re: Machado

Ceetar wrote: 444,470,453 in distance. He can get it out. That's a shot, like three times around the globe!

Ceetar Oct 17 2018 09:02 AM Re: Machado

d'Kong76 wrote: Ceetar wrote: 444,470,453 in distance. He can get it out. That's a shot, like three times around the globe! yeah but he stood at home plate watching it the whole time so now we can't sign him.

Vic Sage Oct 17 2018 09:16 AM Re: Machado

if he stood there watching it the whole time, he'd be, like, what... 37 now? Then no, we shouldn't sign him.

smg58 Oct 17 2018 09:20 AM Re: Machado

If I'm going to commit $300M to somebody, I would appreciate some modicum of class in return.

Centerfield Oct 17 2018 09:23 AM Re: Machado

Ceetar wrote: There was nothing 'non-hustle' about Carlos Beltran. .265 BABIP in 2017, and he still was above average and a contributor. I'm not particularly worried. His Hard Hit % in 2017 was top 2% in the league. Top 5% this year. He smashes the ball. HARD. Maybe it's more doubles and less home runs in a bigger park, but he hits the damn ball hard, and he doesn't strike out a ton. He had the 15th farthest HR in 2017 and the 65th this year and 2016. 444,470,453 in distance. He can get it out. Oh, and he's 26. He could get an 8 year deal and still basically be in his prime at the end of it. I hate that he's this type of player (there are other issues) saw this elsewhere: He also punched Yordano Ventura in the face piece, took out Dustin Pedroia (that slide was clean, IMO), hit Derek Norris with his backswings, cried when Josh Donaldson “swiped” at him with a tag...and probably more that I’ve forgotten. He strikes me as a AJ Pierzynski type, that guy who you like to play with but hate to play against, because he’s a butthole. The Mets need him. he's a great fit. It'd be a bad blow if he went to Philly or Atlanta. Wait, don't get me wrong. I would still support the move. And ultimately the Mets need someone like him (if not specifically him). In fact, they might need a couple of hims. But I'm just saying be wary of signing him and then penciling him down for top 5 in MVP voting. He, like any other player, comes with his downsides, warts, or whatever you might want to call it. I agree that there was nothing non-hustle about Carlos Beltran. But that didn't stop an idiot contingent of Mets fans from thinking that was the case. He ran hard so gracefully some critics didn't realize he was hustling. And they mistook his lack of fist-pumping as lack of desire. You can fist pump all you want. Give me the guy that plays with the broken face. That's fucking heart. I've long said that Beltran's biggest talent and biggest curse was how stupidly easy he made things look. Norichika Aoki can get on all the highlight reels by turning the wrong way, stumbling around, then ultimately laying out to catch a fly ball, whereas Beltran just goes there and puts it in his pocket. The best example is the Torii Hunter bullpen cop play. Often cited as the type of player Torii Hunter was. Hunter ran back on an Ortiz HR, toppled over into the bullpen, but ultimately didn't make the catch. Still gets tons of credit for hustling even to this day. Beltran tracked an Ortiz HR, ran back, robbed him, bounced off the wall, then threw back in to hold the other runners. Forgotten by the next inning.

Ceetar Oct 17 2018 09:32 AM Re: Machado

Centerfield wrote: Wait, don't get me wrong. I would still support the move. And ultimately the Mets need someone like him (if not specifically him). In fact, they might need a couple of hims. But I'm just saying be wary of signing him and then penciling him down for top 5 in MVP voting. He, like any other player, comes with his downsides, warts, or whatever you might want to call it. Well yeah, true of virtually everyone. But I just wanted to present some evidence as to why 2017 was more of a fluke average season than an example of why he might not be a top player.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Oct 17 2018 09:41 AM Re: Machado

I'd get Macho if they'd put him at 3rd and cashier Frazier. I don't think that's likely tho.

Frayed Knot Oct 17 2018 10:10 AM Re: Machado Edited 2 time(s), most recently on Oct 17 2018 10:37 AM

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: I'd get Macho if they'd put him at 3rd and cashier Frazier. I don't think that's likely tho. This is pretty much where I'm at too. It's quite easy to say 'Oh just move Rosario' but is that really what we want to do? Moving Reyes in order to import a bat is a move still mocked today. Now, yeah, there's a lot more evidence that Machado will hit better than Matsui (although everyone thought Matsui would hit better than Matsui too) but when you've got a highly touted young SS (and maybe another behind him?) is signing a guy to a long term deal on the condition that he plays SS (assuming he can dictate terms here) really where you want to go? Among the Machado articles today talking about him and about copping to his lack of hustle (many coming from an MFY pov) are scouting comments about how he "won't hurt you at SS", but that he's also "not a plus defender" there, and that's now at age 26. I guess it comes down to how much you/they believe in Rosario. End of season Amed was certainly a lot more promising than the early version* (both offensively and defensively) which is maybe the beginning of something special for the not yet 23 y/o. That doesn't mean he's better than Machado -- certainly not now, quite likely not ever -- but when you find someone who is really good at playing SS I rarely think it's a good move to move him off of SS so I'd rather see them spend their (however limited) allowance elsewhere than deal with round holes and square pegs for the next few years. * AUG + SEP = ~ .285/.318/.415 vs ~ .235/.280/.355 prior

Centerfield Oct 17 2018 10:14 AM Re: Machado

I watched the replay. Certainly looks like Machado kicks him. If I had to guess why I'd say maybe Aguilar was taking up more of the plate with his foot (rather than toeing it and stretching) than most 1B.

HahnSolo Oct 17 2018 11:28 AM Re: Machado

Centerfield wrote: I watched the replay. Certainly looks like Machado kicks him. If I had to guess why I'd say maybe Aguilar was taking up more of the plate with his foot (rather than toeing it and stretching) than most 1B. Agree on Aguilar taking up a bit too much of the bag. Because of that, if this had been a more bang-bang play, I would be a little more forgiving of Manny--whatever he has to do to try and beat the throw. It wasn't though. It sure seems like Manny could have avoided contact, looks like a pretty intentional kick to me.

Centerfield Oct 17 2018 12:02 PM Re: Machado

Yeah, if I had to guess motivation I'd say Manny grounded out, was pissed about it, saw Aguilar taking up more than half the bag, and then either intentionally clipped him, or made no effort to avoid him, basically to send the message "Get off the bag." In other words, didn't intend to hurt the guy, but definitely intended to be a bit of a dick. One note on the hustle thing, I don't know what the case is with Machado, but oftentimes it's not nearly as clear cut as one might think. Run out every ball. Sure, it sounds simple, but the fact that so many players don't do it should tell you there's more to it. Put it this way, I would guess that less than 10% of major leaguers hustle on every play. Do you know why we love Nimmo's hustle? Because it's unusual. If everyone did it, we wouldn't even notice it. But even if it's as high as 50%, that means half of the big league ballplayers cannot, or at least do not, run out every ball. On the other hand, 100% of fans and media believe they would hustle all the time. So, I guess it's possible that every year, we find the 400 players on earth who do not feel this way. Or more likely, most of the fans, if put in that situation, would do exactly what the current players do. Hustle sometimes, not others, in varying degrees. Sports psychology is complicated. Playing baseball, at any level, is anxiety inducing. Hitting a baseball especially, and hitting a baseball at the Major League level during the post-season...I would guess it's something few of us can really imagine. One of the ways to combat anxiety is to make an effort to relax. Ball players go through all sorts of efforts to relax themselves at the plate. Minimize the consequences, slow things down. Hustle, is the exact opposite. Go full blast, all or nothing. So imagine a ball player that, though gifted physically, is prone to anxiety. Put him in the most anxiety-inducing situation imaginable in sports, then tell him he has to relax in order to succeed. The ballplayer spends an at-bat trying to relax, sees that he's hit a ground ball right at the shortstop, has to process his failure, which is deeply disappointing, then tell his body to stop relaxing, and run full-tilt. I mean, yes, a ballplayer should be able to do this. But if some guys have trouble, you know, I get it.

Ceetar Oct 17 2018 12:11 PM Re: Machado

There's the risk-reward aspect to it. This especially applies to slow jogs to first rather than just stopping. Like, maybe the SS air-mails it, but then you're safe even if you're jogging. Basically, do you really think the number of extra bases you might get from hustling is greater than the value you might lose due to wear and tear and fatigue and possible injury of running 100% every single time you make contact? Many people don't. I feel like there's a bigger complain for guys running 90% on two hoppers to short that get beat by a stride or two. I don't know that speed actually creates that much forced errors, but I bet if you're not a prototypical 'fast guy' you could steal a few extra bases by hustling. Someone of modest speed busting it down the line on a grounder to short where the fielder might think he has time. Of course, I've also been thinking they should move the bases to like 92 feet and the mound back another foot or two.

Frayed Knot Oct 17 2018 12:59 PM Re: Machado

Centerfield wrote: One note on the hustle thing, I don't know what the case is with Machado, but oftentimes it's not nearly as clear cut as one might think. Run out every ball. Sure, it sounds simple, but the fact that so many players don't do it should tell you there's more to it. Put it this way, I would guess that less than 10% of major leaguers hustle on every play. Do you know why we love Nimmo's hustle? Because it's unusual. If everyone did it, we wouldn't even notice it. But even if it's as high as 50%, that means half of the big league ballplayers cannot, or at least do not, run out every ball. Sure. But when you do it in the midst of a tight playoff game, on a grounder where you clearly could have been safe but just as clearly never bothered to try, during a time when you're supposedly on a contract push, and then basically just admit that it's not in you to do so even at the age of 26 and as compared to the rest of MLB ... that's a really bad sign. Few fans rag on ballplayers for not sprinting at every opportunity. But the fact that maybe the two biggest non-hustlers down the stretch this season, even though both young and healthy, were Machado and Harper is simply stunning. Harper hit fly balls this year and wouldn't get more than 15 feet from home plate before making a right hand turn into the dugout.

Centerfield Oct 17 2018 01:37 PM Re: Machado

Frayed Knot wrote: Sure. But when you do it in the midst of a tight playoff game, on a grounder where you clearly could have been safe but just as clearly never bothered to try, during a time when you're supposedly on a contract push, and then basically just admit that it's not in you to do so even at the age of 26 and as compared to the rest of MLB ... that's a really bad sign. Yeah, more than a bad sign, I think he's outright saying he's not going to hustle, and all future employers should go in expecting that. I'm just saying that maybe there's more to an inability to hustle than just the ballplayer not caring, or a character flaw. Bryce Harper is also puzzling. He clearly does care. The not running thing. You wonder if that's also a defense mechanism of some sort.