Master Index of Archived Threads
Can You Cano?
Benjamin Grimm Nov 26 2018 09:02 AM Re: Winter '18-'19 Transactions - non-NYM version |
Ken Rosenthal reporting that the Mariners are trying to unload Robinson Cano, and that the Mets are one of the teams that they've contacted.
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seawolf17 Nov 26 2018 09:21 AM Re: Winter '18-'19 Transactions - non-NYM version |
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Even if they take *all* our big contracts: Vargas: $8M Bruce: $29M Frazier: $9M Lagares: $18.5M Swarzak: $8M Nope.
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Ashie62 Nov 26 2018 11:11 AM Re: Winter '18-'19 Transactions - non-NYM version |
What if you added Cespedes to that list?
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LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Nov 26 2018 11:33 AM Re: Winter '18-'19 Transactions - non-NYM version |
Bad contract... but...
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Benjamin Grimm Nov 26 2018 11:36 AM Re: Winter '18-'19 Transactions - non-NYM version |
Well, I guess if enough dollars come back from Seattle, it's worth considering, but it really doesn't seem like a likely scenario.
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seawolf17 Nov 27 2018 07:47 AM Re: Winter '18-'19 Transactions - non-NYM version |
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Hmm.
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bmfc1 Nov 27 2018 08:27 AM |
A few articles today say that the Mets are being "aggressive" on Robinson Cano talks. SEA is selling and BVW might be buying.
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Benjamin Grimm Nov 27 2018 08:29 AM Re: Can You Cano? |
Huh! Maybe I shouldn't have been so dismissive of the idea in the other thread.
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Benjamin Grimm Nov 27 2018 08:35 AM Re: Can You Cano? |
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MFS62 Nov 27 2018 08:38 AM Re: Can You Cano? |
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Who cares if he's 36? He could DH and hit home runs 'till he's 50 in that bandbox in the Bronx. I could see him going there. Later
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John Cougar Lunchbucket Nov 27 2018 09:00 AM Re: Can You Cano? |
I got real mixed feelings on this.
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smg58 Nov 27 2018 09:42 AM Re: Can You Cano? |
to paraphrase Queen: No, no, no, no, no, no, no.
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Benjamin Grimm Nov 27 2018 11:33 AM Re: Can You Cano? |
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How Mets’ slim Robinson Cano possibility could become reality
Bruce for Cano and Diaz plus cash? Is that what they're saying?
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bmfc1 Nov 27 2018 11:40 AM Re: Can You Cano? |
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Martino:
https://www.sny.tv/mets/news/sources-wi ... /301154492
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Lefty Specialist Nov 27 2018 12:29 PM Re: Can You Cano? |
Boy, they'd have to eat most of that contract AND take Bruce off our hands. And even then I'd be hesitant.
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smg58 Nov 27 2018 12:52 PM Re: Can You Cano? |
The Mariners have already made it clear that they have no intentions of trading Diaz or Hanigan, and I can't fathom they would change their minds just to get rid of Cano. Nor would I take Cano just to get rid of Bruce (or even Cespedes). There is a whole lot of "nothing adds up" here.
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Frayed Knot Nov 27 2018 12:58 PM Re: Winter '18-'19 Transactions - non-NYM version |
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So, basically, BVW is telling Seattle, 'Hey, if we make this trade then you're gonna have to eat most of the money here cuz I'm sure not going to take on the back years of that idiot deal'
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Zvon Nov 27 2018 01:55 PM Re: Can You Cano? |
If we could get Diaz in there somehow, I like. But otherwise no thank you.
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A Boy Named Seo Nov 27 2018 02:12 PM Re: Can You Cano? |
Even if the M's sent $10M per year, would anyone here want Cano around for essentially a 5-year deal for ~$14M per season for his age 36-40 seasons? I sure as hell don't. They'd have to start with Haniger and Diaz to make me not hang up on em.
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Centerfield Nov 27 2018 02:19 PM Re: Can You Cano? |
If they take Bruce, then it kinda becomes a 3 year deal for 15 mil each.
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metsmarathon Nov 27 2018 02:22 PM Re: Can You Cano? |
i'm intrigued by the possibility of the WATP that mlb.com just sent out...
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Centerfield Nov 27 2018 02:33 PM Re: Can You Cano? |
I hate the idea of trading Noah. So yeah, this is better.
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Benjamin Grimm Nov 27 2018 02:43 PM Re: Can You Cano? |
You're overlooking Mallex Smith also coming to the Mets.
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A Boy Named Seo Nov 27 2018 02:57 PM Re: Can You Cano? |
The Mets have only 2 guaranteed contracts (Bruce and Yoenis) on the books for 2019 and zero for 2020. This is kind of amazing and can give them a ton of flexibility going forward. I don't know why they'd want to take on that Cano albatross just to get rid of Bruce and get an (elite) closer. Just spend that money on 2 second tier type guys (Familia, Andrew Miller?) and try to dump Bruce. Mets R Dumb.
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John Cougar Lunchbucket Nov 27 2018 03:08 PM Re: Can You Cano? |
I'm open minded but suspicious.
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Frayed Knot Nov 27 2018 03:22 PM Re: Can You Cano? |
Checking in on Edwin Diaz here since us east coasters rarely ever see west coast closers due to the fact that they generally don't even start their stretching routines until after midnight EDT:
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smg58 Nov 27 2018 03:28 PM Re: Can You Cano? |
You'd be giving up two of your four best prospects and taking on Cano. It would be win now, or else. I could understand (though not necessarily agree with) re-tooling to try to win in the early 2020s, but this deal would punt the early 2020s.
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Benjamin Grimm Nov 27 2018 03:37 PM Re: Can You Cano? |
Well, if Cano replaces Bruce it doesn't make the lineup more lefthanded, except if you figure that Cano would start a lot more games than Bruce would.
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smg58 Nov 27 2018 03:40 PM Re: Can You Cano? |
Smith is left-handed, and Cano would either play first ahead of Alonso or third ahead of Frazier (or play second while McNeil slides over). That's five lefties out of eight.
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Zvon Nov 27 2018 08:43 PM Re: Can You Cano? |
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I like what Smith would bring.
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LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Nov 28 2018 12:04 AM Re: Can You Cano? Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Nov 28 2018 07:02 AM |
I like Smith, I think Cano can be useful for at least 2-3 years, and I like the prospect of getting rid of Bruce. Losing Gimenez (who strikes me as a Ruben Tejada-at-his-best guy), Dunn (whose control is
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Mex17 Nov 28 2018 02:08 AM Re: Can You Cano? |
Here are my questions. .
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Mex17 Nov 28 2018 04:31 AM Re: Can You Cano? |
Let's assume this trade goes through, Alonso makes the team out of spring training, and they do not trade Nimmo for a catcher. I see some platooning in this scenario at the beginning of the year (pre-Cespedes).
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Zvon Nov 28 2018 04:45 AM Re: Can You Cano? |
Nimmo is higher on my MVP list than Cespedes. Of course, not a 100% Yo, but I don't think we'll ever see that again.
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Benjamin Grimm Nov 28 2018 04:47 AM Re: Can You Cano? |
You can't really assume that the Indians, if they're looking to trade Gomes, will be willing to wait for Yoenis Cespedes to come off the DL before making a deal. If Nimmo-for-Gomes is an option now, that doesn't mean it will still be an option next summer.
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Zvon Nov 28 2018 04:51 AM Re: Can You Cano? |
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I feel somewhat pacified.
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Mex17 Nov 28 2018 05:21 AM Re: Can You Cano? |
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What about a Conforto/Cespedes platoon at LF? LF-Conforto/Cespedes CF-Smith/Lagares RF-Nimmo This is starting to look like the '69 team.
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Frayed Knot Nov 28 2018 05:44 AM Re: Can You Cano? |
You don't want Cespedes OR Conforto to be platoon players - and certainly not in one with each other!!
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41Forever Nov 28 2018 05:55 AM Re: Can You Cano? |
A 36-year-old already busted once for PEDs with a horrible contract playing at a position currently filled by a young player who shined in his first half season? Plus all the MFY taint?
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Mex17 Nov 28 2018 06:09 AM Re: Can You Cano? |
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OK, who do you want riding the bench full time on a team that has Conforto, Cespedes, Mallex, and Nimmo? Not wanting to do this deal at all because of the outfield logjam it would create is a perfectly acceptable answer as well. Also, are you that confident that Cespedes can be even play full time going forward once he gets back? Would you keep a healthy Cespedes on the bench in favor of Conforto against a tough lefty just to avoid a platoon?
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Edgy MD Nov 28 2018 06:30 AM Re: Can You Cano? |
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And yet, that's still more appealing than giving 2/3 of the centerfield starts to Dominic Smith. Oh, Mallex. Never mind.
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Frayed Knot Nov 28 2018 06:35 AM Re: Can You Cano? |
Well, the problem at the root of all this is not having a true CF'er. That's a problem that needs to be solved by I don't solve it by making the two best hitters on the team into part-time players.
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LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Nov 28 2018 07:00 AM Re: Can You Cano? Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Nov 28 2018 03:34 PM |
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Smith, by most measures, is an average/above-average CF glove. But he doesn't have to be better than Nimmo to be an improvement, even-- he and Nimmo just have to be better than Nimmo/Bruce, right?
2.9 fWAR in 80 games last year. 18 or so fWAR over the last four years, with no discernible downward trend. SSS alert, but .317/.363/.497 in 41 G post-suspension. AND he still plays a good second. He's been better in "aged" down years than Bruce has been at his best. MFY taint stinks. But he's kindasorta future HOF-y. If Bruce and Ces ARE off the books, having Cano on won't cripple the team's financial flexibility. (It shouldn't, anyway.) Also, you're trading a couple of toolsy prospects, maybe, for developed, very good major leaguers that fill two persistent roster holes on the cheap. If you're not going to sign a Machado or Donaldson, this is how you upgrade a lineup while retooling. Y'know? Forget devil's advocacy. I'm on board with this for real, I think.
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LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Nov 28 2018 07:07 AM Re: Can You Cano? |
Also, proposed: if Cano DOES have something left for 2-3 years, the MFY "taint" can be a borderline asset. Can you imagine a playoff contender led by a resurgent Cano, right in the MFYs' regressing faces? Sterling having to call Cano 2-HR games during Subway Series? It'd be like Darryl in reverse.
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Edgy MD Nov 28 2018 07:16 AM Re: Can You Cano? |
Just saying the name Mallex Smith improves my virility by about 34%.
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41Forever Nov 28 2018 08:01 AM Re: Can You Cano? |
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I just have Alomar/Baerga flashbacks.
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Benjamin Grimm Nov 28 2018 08:07 AM Re: Can You Cano? |
Carlos Baerga was only 28 when the Mets got him. That's not at all comparable to Cano. Roberto Alomar was 34, which is a lot closer.
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seawolf17 Nov 28 2018 09:11 AM Re: Can You Cano? |
I'm trying to talk myself into this, because I feel like it's the kind of thing that might legitimately happen.
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batmagadanleadoff Nov 28 2018 09:17 AM Re: Can You Cano? |
MFY taint? What the fuck is that? Is that the latest excuse for the Wilpons to cover that they'd be too cheap to ever go in on Babe Ruth or Lou Gehrig or Mickey Mantle if those players were playing today and hitting free agency?
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Benjamin Grimm Nov 28 2018 09:21 AM Re: Can You Cano? |
Any notion of "MFY taint" is coming from the fans, not the Wilpons.
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Zvon Nov 28 2018 09:22 AM Re: Can You Cano? |
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I agree with FK, especially in regards to Conforto. I kinda like: LF: Conforto CF: Nimmo RF: Yo @90 to 100%
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bmfc1 Nov 28 2018 09:36 AM Re: Can You Cano? |
FYI: the thread title was a callback to this very old commercial
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Frayed Knot Nov 28 2018 09:38 AM Re: Can You Cano? |
I remember the commercial, not the song.
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batmagadanleadoff Nov 28 2018 09:50 AM Re: Can You Cano? |
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Oh, that much I knew.
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Centerfield Nov 28 2018 10:06 AM Re: Can You Cano? |
After consideration again last night, I decided I'm against this deal.
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Centerfield Nov 28 2018 10:09 AM Re: Can You Cano? |
For perspective, some thought taking a flyer on 32 year old Josh Donaldson on a 1 year deal was too much risk.
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A Boy Named Seo Nov 28 2018 11:13 AM Re: Can You Cano? |
Yeah, I'm pretty solidly against the idea of this proposed trade. I think the M's willingness to include Diaz shows how desperate they are to get out from underneath Cano and also how eminently replaceable a high-strikeout, hard-throwing, right-handed closer can be in 2018, talented as he may be. And Mallex Smith sounds to me like he's maybe prime Dee Gordon with less steals. No thanks, man. Main point is that I have little faith that post-PED, 36-year old Cano will continue to be highly productive this year, let alone for 5.
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Edgy MD Nov 28 2018 11:20 AM Re: Can You Cano? |
Van Wagenen's Wikipedia page says that he negotiated that 10-year Cano contract. I thought that was Jay-Z's agency. Did Brodie used to work for them?
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LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Nov 28 2018 03:53 PM Re: Can You Cano? |
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Mallex has a career . 346 OBP and .384 SLG, and both numbers are trending upward. Gordon has only topped either number twice in his career. On this matter, your hearing is flawed. Also, re: PED weirdness... you have more to fear from aging. Braun, Marte, Cruz-- most good PED-suspended hitters have remained good hitters, post-PED suspension. Cano. As OUR 90s-Yankees Darryl. IMAGINE THE FLOSSIBILITIES
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Mex17 Nov 28 2018 05:36 PM Re: Can You Cano? |
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Try this out for size. Assuming the O'Dowd version of the trade goes though, a healthy Cespedes, a promoted Alonso, and a Grandal signing. . . -vs. RHP Smith-cf Nimmo-rf Conforto-lf Cano-2b Grandal-c Alonso-1b pitcher McNeil-3b Rosario-ss -vs. LHP Nimmo-rf Conforto-cf Cespedes-lf Cano-2b Frazier-3b Grandal-c Alonso-1b pitcher Rosario-ss With this, you keep Conforto and Nimmo in the lineup everyday. You also keep Cespedes from being overused coming off injury and place him in the best position to succeed. And you get a healthy dose of what Mallex Smith can bring to the table. You also limit McNeil's exposure and keep Frazier involved. It's almost like two different teams in one. You get more of a situational/speed/smallball team against rightys and more pop against leftys.
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Mex17 Nov 28 2018 05:37 PM Re: Can You Cano? |
Just for kicks, Mallex vs. Nimmo side by side.
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Frayed Knot Nov 28 2018 07:50 PM Re: Can You Cano? |
Just to be clear here, your version of keeping a "healthy Cespedes from being overused", and of "keeping Frazier involved" for that matter, has both of them sitting out some 70-80% of the time.
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Mex17 Nov 29 2018 04:10 AM Re: Can You Cano? |
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That's the rub. Everyone keeps saying that they need another "big bat" in the lineup, preferably a righthanded one. Where do you put that bat? The only places that I can think of are third base, second base, and the outfield. Everyone is enamored with McNeil and no one wants to sit Nimmo or Conforto. There is a still a committment to Frazier and you have to keep a spot open for Cespedes even though no one has any idea when he is coming back or what he will be when he comes back. No one really wants to trade Syndergaard and this Mariners trade (which looks like BVW is pursuing) addresses none of the above concerns. What do you do?
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HahnSolo Nov 29 2018 10:12 AM Re: Can You Cano? |
Jeff Passan says significant momentum to these talks, meanwhile two Mets prospects names surface via Rosenthal (at least I hadn't heard their names in this deal before--we'd really consider dealing Kelenic in this trade?).
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John Cougar Lunchbucket Nov 29 2018 10:19 AM Re: Can You Cano? |
You said it (so did I in a different thread).
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Centerfield Nov 29 2018 10:25 AM Re: Can You Cano? |
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No no no. Are you fucking kidding me? No.
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Centerfield Nov 29 2018 10:27 AM Re: Can You Cano? |
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Maybe we can get JJ Putz again! And the Cano contract is really not a big deal. We can spread his payments over a 100 years starting in 2031, and invest that money right now into this fund I know...
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HahnSolo Nov 29 2018 10:29 AM Re: Can You Cano? |
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lol when I typed that I thought "I sound just like lunchbucket"
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Benjamin Grimm Nov 29 2018 10:30 AM Re: Can You Cano? |
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John Cougar Lunchbucket Nov 29 2018 10:30 AM Re: Can You Cano? |
Jezus H.
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metirish Nov 29 2018 10:31 AM Re: Can You Cano? |
Why are the Mets not just getting a closer type in the free agent market ? There are many available.....I fear Cano would come here and just stink
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Centerfield Nov 29 2018 10:33 AM Re: Can You Cano? |
I feel like I'm living in some alternate universe.
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Centerfield Nov 29 2018 10:37 AM Re: Can You Cano? |
They're saying McNeil is being discussed.
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Benjamin Grimm Nov 29 2018 10:43 AM Re: Can You Cano? |
Hopefully, "discussed" means that the Mariners are asking, not that the Mets are offering. But I really don't know what to think.
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Benjamin Grimm Nov 29 2018 10:46 AM Re: Can You Cano? |
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Mets emerging as favorites for Robinson Cano, Edwin Diaz
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A Boy Named Seo Nov 29 2018 11:17 AM Re: Can You Cano? |
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I stand corrected. Still want nothing to do with any of the rumored iterations of this turd of a trade.
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Centerfield Nov 29 2018 12:06 PM Re: Can You Cano? |
I'm realizing that reading about these rumors is a good way to drive myself crazy over potentially nothing.
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smg58 Nov 29 2018 12:10 PM Re: Can You Cano? |
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This is what scares me. The Mariners have made a point of getting players back who may already be better than what they're giving up -- and who on the Mets would better fit that description? Especially if either Dee Gordon or Mallex Smith is part of the deal, then second base opens up for them. Personally, if I were the Mariners, I would offer up Gordon, Cano, and Diaz for Cespedes, McNeil, Lugo, and Dom Smith, while eating $10M of the last three years of the contract. Why Cespedes? Because that might be more attractive to the Mets than Bruce, and because Cespedes will be able to DH sooner than he will be able to play left field. My fear is that the Mets would accept such an offer.
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Centerfield Nov 29 2018 12:27 PM Re: Can You Cano? |
Diaz is a fucking relief pitcher. I wouldn't trade him 1 for 1 for Kelenic, or McNeil, or even Dunn.
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Centerfield Nov 29 2018 12:29 PM Re: Can You Cano? |
And if this deal goes through, are we going to do a jersey over the suit press conference for Cano?
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Lefty Specialist Nov 29 2018 12:56 PM Re: Can You Cano? |
I really, really want to believe they won't do something stupid. Afraid they will, though. Cano could be the next Robbie Alomar.
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Benjamin Grimm Nov 29 2018 01:02 PM Re: Can You Cano? |
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Oh, I'm sure they would. I don't object to getting Cano and Diaz, I just worry about what the Mets will give up to get them. I do fear that it will be too much.
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Benjamin Grimm Nov 29 2018 01:05 PM Re: Can You Cano? |
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I think the Alomar deal was a smart move that didn't work out. This one, well, until we know the details it's hard to say. Tonight's Mets Hot Stove should be interesting.
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Centerfield Nov 29 2018 01:11 PM Re: Can You Cano? |
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That's the thing. The Mets shouldn't give up anything. Cano is not an asset. He's a liability. A terrible liability. He's a 36 year old player on a huge 5 year deal. Even if they just gave us Cano and Diaz for free, it wouldn't be worth taking. Diaz is an asset, but not enough to outweigh Cano. It has to be Cano, plus cash, plus Diaz, plus they take Bruce off our hands. And then we make the deal. The minute they ask for prospects, or McNeil, the conversation should be over. McNeil had a higher OPS than Cano last year. He's 26 and cheap. Why are we having this discussion?
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Centerfield Nov 29 2018 01:12 PM Re: Can You Cano? |
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Alomar is not the floor here. Cano is Alomar, except older, coming off a steroid suspension, and tied to a 5 year, $120 million contract with a no-trade clause.
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Benjamin Grimm Nov 29 2018 01:19 PM Re: Can You Cano? |
I wonder if they see Cano as a first baseman? Or if he'd nudge McNeil to third base?
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Frayed Knot Nov 29 2018 01:44 PM Re: Can You Cano? |
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Throw in a few more prospects and it'll have Steve Phillips' fingerprints all over it.
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A Boy Named Seo Nov 29 2018 01:50 PM Re: Can You Cano? |
I think we're putting all the focus on Cano and underestimating the massive hard-on the Mets seem to have for Edwin Diaz.
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LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Nov 29 2018 02:06 PM Re: Can You Cano? |
I'm not often the contrarian here. But... I'll channel my inner Steve Phillips and say--provided Kelenic is nowhere near this deal-- I think I like it. Or, rather, that it would suit our squad's stated purpose, especially if we get Mallex and Diaz.
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Benjamin Grimm Nov 29 2018 02:10 PM Re: Can You Cano? |
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Yes, you're right. I meant to make that point too but forgot. It might very well be that Cano is the bitter pill that the Mets have to swallow to get Diaz. (And to unload Bruce as well?)
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Centerfield Nov 29 2018 02:14 PM Re: Can You Cano? |
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As if on cue, Steve Phillips wonders in a tweet why we would trade our prospects for a closer when there are a plethora of them available as free agents. Um. Ok Steve. I mean, he's right, but. Ya know.
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A Boy Named Seo Nov 29 2018 02:20 PM Re: Can You Cano? |
Diaz definitely makes the bullpen better. Cano is 10 years older than McNeil and he put up a 2.9 WAR to McNeil's 2.7 in 100 more PAs. There is no reason to assume that Cano will be better than Jeff McNeil for the next 5 years. If the Mets don't trust McNeil and want a brand name closer, go sign fucking Kimbrel (BIG SPLASH!) and get Jed Lowrie or some shit. Talking about Kelenic and Dunn and McNeil is st00pid.
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Benjamin Grimm Nov 29 2018 02:25 PM Re: Can You Cano? |
I'm hoping that there's room in the same infield for both Cano and McNeil.
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Centerfield Nov 29 2018 02:35 PM Re: Can You Cano? |
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Yes yes yes. ABNS for GM.
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Frayed Knot Nov 29 2018 02:52 PM Re: Can You Cano? Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Nov 29 2018 02:54 PM |
Do keep in mind that Diaz will cost the Mets less in salary for the sum of the four years they'd have him under control than will one, maybe one-plus, seasons of Kimbrel (and you'd have to commit to
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Benjamin Grimm Nov 29 2018 02:53 PM Re: Can You Cano? |
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Centerfield Nov 29 2018 02:59 PM Re: Can You Cano? |
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Right. The prize here is Diaz. Young, controllable closer. And what we'd be willing to give up to get him. He is unquestionably linked to Cano. So any monetary advantage to Diaz is immediately offset. In fact, money is a net negative, as Cano costs more than any closer would. So Seattle has to throw in money. Whether or not this is a good deal depends on how much they eat. Another factor is how good you think Cano will be. For me, I don't think he'll be good for very long. He might not be very good even for one year. So if the deal was Cano and Diaz for nothing, I say no. Once Seattle starts asking for McNeil or Kelenic, I hang up and move on.
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Benjamin Grimm Nov 29 2018 03:04 PM Re: Can You Cano? |
Cano turned 36 just last month. The odds really aren't good that he'll be productive in the last year of his contract, which will end right around the time of his 41st birthday.
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A Boy Named Seo Nov 29 2018 03:28 PM Re: Can You Cano? |
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Cano has 5 years x $24M per left ($120M total). The rumor was the M's send $10M per, let's pretend that's true. It woud drop the total to $70M the Mets would owe Cano for his age 36-40 season. For the record I don't advocate signing Kimbrel at all. But I think the Mets could sign two of Familia, David Robertson, Adam Ottovino, Joe Kelly, Andrew Miller for 3 years each and around that same $70M they would owe to Cano and have a killer bullpen. And they'd get to keep McNeil, Dunn and Kelenic. Get creative from there and trade for a bat. I'm just saying, if I'm gonna be stuck with an albatross, let it be Jay Bruce ($14M x 2 seasons) rather than ~$70M for an old, post-PED Cano.
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Mex17 Nov 29 2018 05:07 PM Re: Can You Cano? |
I started envisioning Kelenic's Hall of Fame induction ceremony the moment his name was mentioned in all this.
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smg58 Nov 29 2018 05:27 PM Re: Can You Cano? |
So remember when the Phillies owner said they might even “get a little stupid†with their offers this offseason? It’s time to put your money where your mouth is, buddy.
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MFS62 Nov 29 2018 05:30 PM Re: Can You Cano? |
I don't want to do any of the versions of this deal I've read.
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Centerfield Nov 29 2018 05:38 PM Re: Can You Cano? |
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I don't see much home. No one outstupids the Mets.
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A Boy Named Seo Nov 29 2018 05:53 PM Re: Can You Cano? |
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BBR lists the "Earliest Arb Eligible" date for Diaz as 2020. So if he's a Met in 2019, he'll be playing for the MLB version of peanuts. This is great! If he repeats his 2018 season again (best case scenario!), he will prob earn $6-10M in arbitration anyway (still a good deal for that production). But if he's all the sudden making $6-10M or more per season every year in arbitration, then is he really so inexpensive? BTW - I got this shit here: the arbitration record for a first-time eligible relief pitcher is $6.25M, set way back in 2009 by Jonathan Papelbon. MLBTR sez it would take someone like Edwin Diaz to beat that! What a coinkydink! TL;DR - Diaz is good. If he keeps being good, he will very soon be expensive, too, like most good players are. Don't take on Cano just to get one guaranteed cheap year out of a very good closer. Dumb.
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John Cougar Lunchbucket Nov 29 2018 06:08 PM Re: Can You Cano? |
Good closers also have a habit of becoming shit closers.
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Centerfield Nov 29 2018 06:14 PM Re: Can You Cano? |
Looks like it might happen tonight. God help us.
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Mex17 Nov 29 2018 06:15 PM Re: Can You Cano? Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Nov 29 2018 06:20 PM |
What if Haniger is in the deal instead of Mallex Smith?
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Mex17 Nov 29 2018 06:17 PM Re: Can You Cano? |
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Source?
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metirish Nov 29 2018 06:26 PM Re: Can You Cano? |
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All the usual twats are reporting on Twitter that it's "this" close but likely not announced tonight.... But watch this space as it might
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A Boy Named Seo Nov 29 2018 06:37 PM Re: Can You Cano? |
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Haniger and Diaz definitely changes my opinion. But it also depends what's going the other way. Edit: I have to say none of the twitter twat stuff has Haniger's name anywhere.
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Frayed Knot Nov 29 2018 06:44 PM Re: Can You Cano? |
Just to be clear here: I don't want Cano.
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A Boy Named Seo Nov 29 2018 07:08 PM Re: Can You Cano? |
Seems like all the assholes on twitter are crying in unison Cano + Diaz for Bruce + Swarzak + "prospects".
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Mex17 Nov 29 2018 07:16 PM Re: Can You Cano? |
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5 years, $120M left on Cano - ($50M from Seattle + $26M of Bruce going to Seattle + $8M of Swarzak going to Seattle) = $36 million. That is now a $7.2 million AAV. More palatable. Now does that mean that you pay more in prospects due to the increased monetary offset or does Swarzak have enough value as a player where you do not have to give up as many prospects? I have no idea. And does losing Swarzak weaken the middle of the bullpen? I know that he had a bad 2018 but a comeback was not out of the question in my view.
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Gwreck Nov 29 2018 07:59 PM Re: Can You Cano? |
Including one prospect in the deal from the Mets’ side makes sense. Diaz is established and comes with club control. And no problem with a bad-contract swap of Cano for Bruce/Swarzak. But you don’t include three key prospects in that deal.
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Centerfield Nov 29 2018 08:09 PM Re: Can You Cano? |
Jim Duquette thinks this is too much to give up.
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Mex17 Nov 29 2018 08:12 PM Re: Can You Cano? |
"Though the deal is not yet official, the trade on the table is Cano/Diaz for Jay Bruce, Anthony Swarzak, Jarred Kelenic, Jeff McNeil, and Justin Dunn. It is possible the Mets can subtract one of those younger players (Kelenic, McNeil, Dunn) before the deal becomes official."
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Centerfield Nov 29 2018 08:18 PM Re: Can You Cano? |
This is propaganda right? So when the real trade is announced we love it more?
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Ashie62 Nov 29 2018 08:24 PM Re: Can You Cano? |
BVG, Just don't do it! Stupid plus
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Mex17 Nov 29 2018 08:30 PM Re: Can You Cano? Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Nov 29 2018 09:00 PM |
Food for thought here. . .
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Benjamin Grimm Nov 29 2018 08:31 PM Re: Can You Cano? |
This sounds really bad. Is it too late to hire Chaim Bloom?
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Centerfield Nov 29 2018 08:42 PM Re: Can You Cano? |
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I find myself pining for this deal I rejected yesterday.
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batmagadanleadoff Nov 29 2018 08:43 PM Re: Can You Cano? |
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Not nearly enough. The Mets will probably need to throw in Jacob deGrom to bring in that haul.
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John Cougar Lunchbucket Nov 29 2018 09:04 PM Re: Can You Cano? |
that's fuckimg insane
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metirish Nov 29 2018 09:16 PM Re: Can You Cano? |
Martino now reporting those players above and Bautista
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LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Nov 29 2018 09:30 PM Re: Can You Cano? |
This is getting real stupid real fast.
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Centerfield Nov 29 2018 09:39 PM Re: Can You Cano? |
Maybe Melvin would have been better after all.
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batmagadanleadoff Nov 29 2018 10:07 PM Re: Can You Cano? |
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And the thing is, I cant even figure out if that's part of a teardown, or if the Mets are going all in on 2019. On second look-see, and these being the Wilpon owned Mets, that trade looks like a teardown of the present and of the future.
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A Boy Named Seo Nov 29 2018 10:25 PM Re: Can You Cano? |
[tweet:3nhbzo70]https://twitter.com/Joelsherman1/status/1068372808454029312[/tweet:3nhbzo70]
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John Cougar Lunchbucket Nov 29 2018 10:42 PM Re: Can You Cano? |
Yuck. If this gets done the next move ought to be signing Bryce Harper, I mean if you're going to go for it then go for it. And trade Matz not Syndrome
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Mex17 Nov 30 2018 03:39 AM Re: Can You Cano? |
Would you trade a Hall of Fame career for Jared Kelenic as a lifelong Seattle Mariner in exchange for one world championship for the Mets within the next three seasons? That is essentially the question now.
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Benjamin Grimm Nov 30 2018 04:21 AM Re: Can You Cano? |
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No, that's not the question at all. While Kelenic may end up as a Hall-of-Famer, that's just one of many possible scenarios and probably not the most likely one. He could just as easily turn out to be Alex Escobar. Or Fernando Martinez. Or Shawn Abner. I don't like this deal either (though I dislike it less if McNeil isn't involved) but the Mets apparently think it makes them a better team for 2019 (although that's far from certain) and I guess they figure that, since Kelenic may be four or five years away from playing his first big-league game, they have time to find someone else to replace him. This trade could turn out to be a very good one, or a very bad one. It's a bold and risky move. It's kind of an answer to anyone who criticized that Sandy Alderson was too cautious. There's a new sheriff in town, and it looks like things are going to be different. For better or worse.
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Mex17 Nov 30 2018 05:10 AM Re: Can You Cano? |
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It's precisely the question because that is what each side wants out of this. Kelenic (and, to a lesser extent, Dunn) is the prize for Seattle. The prospects of a championship for the Mets after a 30+ year drought is the prize for BVW and the Wilpons. Whether or not either or both of those actually happen is where the risk comes in. BVW is also gambling on there being other toolsy 19 year olds coming up the pike in future years, and that his reinforcements to the FO (Baird and Guttridge) will give him an edge in finding his share of them.
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Mex17 Nov 30 2018 05:14 AM Re: Can You Cano? |
-2019 Opening Day
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Centerfield Nov 30 2018 05:31 AM Re: Can You Cano? |
How do you lose a trade where the other team is hamstrung by a full no trade.
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bmfc1 Nov 30 2018 05:36 AM Re: Can You Cano? |
Welcome to the better side of New York!
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Fman99 Nov 30 2018 05:37 AM Re: Can You Cano? |
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I like this deal way better with McNeil staying in NY. He showed that he can be a legit MLB bat. The prospects are just prospects, none of which have done anything at the MLB level yet. If McNeil goes along with that package of players I like it WAAAAYYYY less.
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LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Nov 30 2018 05:54 AM Re: Can You Cano? |
Sub Gimenez in for Kelenic, and this would've been cool. As it stands... that's a "no" from me, dog. (Even if you're not a believer, Kelenic is an asset you trade for a whale, not a dry-aged Pacific salmon.)
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Benjamin Grimm Nov 30 2018 06:05 AM Re: Can You Cano? |
The best I can say right now is that this deal isn't as bad as it might have been.
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G-Fafif Nov 30 2018 06:15 AM Re: Can You Cano? |
Yehuda Schwartz is either scooping everybody or jumping the gun on trade being official.
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bmfc1 Nov 30 2018 06:17 AM Re: Can You Cano? Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Nov 30 2018 06:57 AM |
Thinking positively: The Mets will be better in 2019 and 2020 with Cano and Diaz. You can argue about how much better but they are better. I'm upset about the 3 young players but they weren't helping short-term (Bautista perhaps but he was erratic last year). Also, they are better without Swarzak and Bruce. Bruce's departure means more playing time for Nimmo and Conforto, and it removes an impediment for Alonso and Smith. However, I hope that this ends any discussion of trading Noah (because they are in win-now mode) and it should be an interim move as they still need a right-handed bat.
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Benjamin Grimm Nov 30 2018 06:34 AM Re: Can You Cano? |
Who's Yehuda Schwartz?
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Benjamin Grimm Nov 30 2018 06:54 AM Re: Can You Cano? |
According to this page, the money in Cano's contract is evenly distributed. It won't taper off in the later years, it's an even $24 million per year for each of the next five years.
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seawolf17 Nov 30 2018 06:57 AM Re: Can You Cano? |
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If this is real, I think I mostly hate it.
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MFS62 Nov 30 2018 07:06 AM Re: Can You Cano? |
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Like you, I don't like this trade. But if I knew that was going to happen, I'd feel a lot better about this. But I feel he's going to go all Amos Otis on us. OE: WAIT! Thor isn't in that trade? I feel a lot better about it. Later
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Benjamin Grimm Nov 30 2018 07:10 AM Re: Can You Cano? |
Even if he's Amos Otis, he's still not a Hall-of-Famer.
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dgwphotography Nov 30 2018 07:19 AM Re: Can You Cano? Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Nov 30 2018 07:21 AM |
I'm not crazy about this trade, but I like how proactive BVW has been so far, so I'll wait and see how the roster looks on Opening Day.
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MFS62 Nov 30 2018 07:21 AM Re: Can You Cano? |
If this is primarily for the short term, Fangraphs is projecting McNeil and Cano to have the same WAR next year. If he were still included in the deal, it would have boiled down to all those other players for the reliever.
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DocTee Nov 30 2018 07:24 AM Re: Can You Cano? |
I like this only if Cano plays 1B. McNeil showed enough to handle second (and I'm high on TJ Rivera coming back strong).
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metirish Nov 30 2018 08:02 AM Re: Can You Cano? |
Martino saying "roughly $60M headed Mets way"
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Benjamin Grimm Nov 30 2018 08:07 AM Re: Can You Cano? |
So Cano would be costing the Mets $12 million per year. That's not horrible.
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86-Dreamer Nov 30 2018 08:09 AM Re: Can You Cano? Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Nov 30 2018 08:11 AM |
i think of this as two separate deals:
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HahnSolo Nov 30 2018 08:09 AM Re: Can You Cano? |
I'm now thinking about Swarzak. I was figuring on a bounceback, or at least healthy, year.
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smg58 Nov 30 2018 08:26 AM Re: Can You Cano? |
The fact that McNeil is not included makes it only marginally awful. But it's still not clear where Cano and McNeil will both play. It's worth keeping in mind that Cano's bat presents a decent, but not huge, upgrade over the kind of first basemen that get claimed off waivers.
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Benjamin Grimm Nov 30 2018 08:29 AM Re: Can You Cano? |
Are we even sure yet that it's a "fact" that McNeil isn't included?
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smg58 Nov 30 2018 08:32 AM Re: Can You Cano? |
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Fair point. Nothing is official yet, but it's being reported that way.
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Benjamin Grimm Nov 30 2018 08:34 AM Re: Can You Cano? |
I know. It's very confusing. I certainly hope that McNeil isn't included, but until there's an official announcement, we're just juggling a lot of rumors.
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A Boy Named Seo Nov 30 2018 08:38 AM Re: Can You Cano? |
So, um, the Mets got the best player in the trade, so we won the trade, right? Right??
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Lefty Specialist Nov 30 2018 08:59 AM Re: Can You Cano? |
This has to be the prelude to something else, because I'm not crazy about it right now. McNeil better not be in it, and there better be plenty of money coming back. Dunn and Bautista I can live with, but Kelenic really hurts.
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A Boy Named Seo Nov 30 2018 09:05 AM Re: Can You Cano? |
Hopefully Syndergaard is not their path to re-stocking the top of the farm system, but I think that may be likely.
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Centerfield Nov 30 2018 09:08 AM Re: Can You Cano? |
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This is scary. Wouldn't we have been better off just making Syndergaard our closer?
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dgwphotography Nov 30 2018 09:15 AM Re: Can You Cano? |
Wasn't BVW also Syndergaard's agent? Maybe he's privy to something we aren't?
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Centerfield Nov 30 2018 09:21 AM Re: Can You Cano? |
I hate this trade. Not just for what it might be if Kelenic is good, or if Diaz blows out his elbow, but because of what it signals right now.
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Centerfield Nov 30 2018 09:27 AM Re: Can You Cano? |
Per Ken Rosenthal, Mariners GM DiPoto was said to be "euphoric" over the return for Cano and Diaz.
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A Boy Named Seo Nov 30 2018 09:49 AM Re: Can You Cano? |
I'm sure he is. They got 2 of the Mets last 4 #1 picks and a young, 100MPH flame-thrower who can become Edwin Diaz if he learns the strike zone. Cool.
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batmagadanleadoff Nov 30 2018 10:01 AM Re: Can You Cano? |
I'm really leery of baseball players who missed most of their 35 year old seasons. I know how good Cano was up until his suspension, but even without the half a season missed at 35 years old, he's way closer to the end than to the beginning. Plus, what was already noted here -- "Who's on Second?" Obviously, the Mets didn't make this trade to platoon McNeil and Cano. Did the Mets move all these players to acquire Cano, and on top of all the question marks he already brings, the Mets intend to play Cano at a position he's practically never played at all in the Majors?
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Benjamin Grimm Nov 30 2018 10:12 AM Re: Can You Cano? |
Here's a view from the Seattle News Tribune that's not fully enthusiastic about the deal:
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Centerfield Nov 30 2018 10:33 AM Re: Can You Cano? |
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I'm happy to give them back their two superstars. Let's call the whole thing off.
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86-Dreamer Nov 30 2018 10:34 AM Re: Can You Cano? |
here is a comparable deal for the Diaz part of the trade:
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John Cougar Lunchbucket Nov 30 2018 11:09 AM Re: Can You Cano? |
I'm not happy about it in a matter of taste.
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Benjamin Grimm Nov 30 2018 11:16 AM Re: Can You Cano? |
My hope is that somehow it's Frazier that's displaced by Cano, and not McNeil, but who knows?
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86-Dreamer Nov 30 2018 12:07 PM Re: Can You Cano? |
I expect McNeil will start 3x/week for either Frazier or Alonso against RHP plus occasional starts for Cano. He will also get an outfielders glove and a picture of Ben Zobrist to hang in his locker.
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Benjamin Grimm Nov 30 2018 12:50 PM Re: Can You Cano? |
There really hasn't been many updates to this story today. Does this mean they're furiously finalizing the details behind closed doors? Or could it be that it's fizzling?
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Centerfield Nov 30 2018 01:00 PM Re: Can You Cano? |
I've been rooting for failed physicals.
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Benjamin Grimm Nov 30 2018 01:02 PM Re: Can You Cano? |
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Ashie62 Nov 30 2018 01:16 PM Re: Can You Cano? |
Mets players who may be involved have been notified by management per Dicomo
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Zvon Nov 30 2018 01:35 PM Re: Can You Cano? |
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Management: "Hello Jay? Mets management here. You may have been traded." Bruce: "May have? Well get back to me when you know more." Management: "Oh no, it's a done deal. It's official." Bruce: "Ugh! Gimme the bottomline." Management: " Okay....you may have been traded."
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Frayed Knot Nov 30 2018 01:36 PM Re: Can You Cano? |
I do recall Nimmo being named as part of the Jay Bruce deal as that one was coming down to the wire.
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metirish Nov 30 2018 01:48 PM Re: Can You Cano? |
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BVW ass is in the jackpot right now
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seawolf17 Nov 30 2018 01:56 PM Re: Can You Cano? |
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A Boy Named Seo Nov 30 2018 02:01 PM Re: Can You Cano? |
[tweet:mjfufzti]https://twitter.com/PSLToFlushing/status/1068538854360186880[/tweet:mjfufzti]
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RealityChuck Nov 30 2018 02:03 PM Re: Can You Cano? |
Note that Cano's suspension had nothing to do with actual steroids; he was found to have a diuretic that was banned because it can be used to hide steroid use, but that doesn't seem to be the case: it was on the banned list and Cano used it without realizing it.
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41Forever Nov 30 2018 02:04 PM Re: Can You Cano? |
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No way is he going to wear No. 24 in a Mets uniform!!!!
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seawolf17 Nov 30 2018 02:11 PM Re: Can You Cano? |
Yeah, that's weird. I wonder why they 'shopped him in 24. He wore 22 in Seattle.
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Benjamin Grimm Nov 30 2018 02:21 PM Re: Can You Cano? |
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Benjamin Grimm Nov 30 2018 02:25 PM Re: Can You Cano? |
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I think that's a reasonable take. And Cano won't be nearly as much of an albatross if the reports that the Mariners are sending $60 million to the Mets are true.
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Methead Nov 30 2018 02:32 PM Re: Can You Cano? |
The feeling is fading somewhat, but I felt sick about this deal last night.
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John Cougar Lunchbucket Nov 30 2018 02:37 PM Re: Can You Cano? |
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He was 24 as a Yankee Diaz can step into his customary 39, left vacant by Blevvy
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Benjamin Grimm Nov 30 2018 02:49 PM Re: Can You Cano? |
24 is retired in Seattle for Ken Griffey Jr.
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Centerfield Nov 30 2018 03:06 PM Re: Can You Cano? |
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Rickey Henderson wore it. No reason not to give it to Cano. Except that he will fail his physical and will never be a Met so who cares about his number anyway.
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Mex17 Nov 30 2018 03:30 PM Re: Can You Cano? |
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Cano is a borderline (perhaps likely) Hall of Famer. You waive the Mays rule for him.
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Edgy MD Nov 30 2018 03:33 PM Re: Can You Cano? |
Mays waived the Mays rule for Henderson.
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Frayed Knot Nov 30 2018 03:35 PM Re: Can You Cano? |
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I was thinking of this as two separate deals as well. If it were just Cano for the two vets I think most would be at least semi-OK with it and it certainly (likely anyway) makes us a better team for '19-'20 Which leaves the remaining question as to whether Dunn + Kelenic are too much for an established, and top line, closer. You question the idea of giving up not just a 1st round pick but a #6 overall, and doing so so quickly. That said he's a loonggg way from the majors (220 rookie lg ABs to date) and the further away a prospect is from the majors the higher he needs to be in potential in order to pry loose a known quantity. Dunn was a somewhat lower pick (#19th) and is further along but hasn't had a great track record to this point (high ERAs until his final 9 starts at PSL this summer).
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metirish Nov 30 2018 05:49 PM Re: Can You Cano? |
Jeff Passean
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d'Kong76 Nov 30 2018 06:01 PM Re: Can You Cano? |
$60 million made this idea somewhat reasonable, $20 million makes this
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A Boy Named Seo Nov 30 2018 07:15 PM Re: Can You Cano? |
The 2 separate deals thing doesn't hold water for me cause I don't think the Mariners do the Edwin Diaz "deal" unless the Mets do the the Cano "deal". Also, if it's $20M dollars coming back with Cano, then LOLfuckingMETS
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Mex17 Nov 30 2018 07:40 PM Re: Can You Cano? |
If the Mariners are only kicking in $20 million than Kenenic cannot be in the deal. Why would the Mets include him if they are taking on $100 million in salary for a guy who is 36? If they are doing that, then the reason for Diaz is as an enticement for the Mets bailing Seattle out of the majority of the contract.
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Frayed Knot Nov 30 2018 07:48 PM Re: Can You Cano? |
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And I don't Actually think of it as two separate deals either (nor, I suspect, does Chuck). I was more just sort of mentally breaking it down that way for analysis purposes. It may be possible to talk the M's into dealing just Diaz alone but the price would tend to be higher in that case and they'd have fewer incentives to make it.
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Centerfield Nov 30 2018 07:49 PM Re: Can You Cano? |
Please let this deal fall apart over money. Please please.
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Centerfield Nov 30 2018 07:55 PM Re: Can You Cano? |
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No. This is wrong. If it were Cano alone, no one would touch him with a ten foot pole. Shouldn’t anyway. Swarzak and Bruce combine for what, $30 million? No way you sign a 36 year old PED user to a 5 year $90 million deal. Giving him a 2 year deal is too much. We talk about spending wisely. This is absolutely the polar opposite. So they have to give us Diaz to even consider taking this on. Diaz and Cano are consideration for each other. They cannot be separated. So effectively, you are giving up Kelenic, and Dunn, and Batista and taking on the non Bruce/Swarzak portion of the Cano deal, for Edwin Diaz. A closer. This is fucking insane.
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metirish Nov 30 2018 08:00 PM Re: Can You Cano? |
Martino towing the company line now about the money
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Frayed Knot Nov 30 2018 08:01 PM Re: Can You Cano? |
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I meant to write that if it were Bruce + Swarzak for Cano + $$$$ then some would be OK with it ... depending on the amount of cash of course. And, again (although you may have been already typing prior to my 9:48 response), I didn't mean to imply that they were Actual separate deals, only that I found that it helped to mentally think of them that way.
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Centerfield Nov 30 2018 08:03 PM Re: Can You Cano? |
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It’s a shocking quote.
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metirish Nov 30 2018 08:07 PM Re: Can You Cano? |
Shocking indeed , btw that last line should read "Mets about to get really interesting" , my mistake
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Mex17 Nov 30 2018 08:10 PM Re: Can You Cano? |
$120M - ($26M for Bruce + $8M for Swarzak +#20M from Seattle) = $66 million. Over 5 years that is a $13.2 AAV. . .too much for a guy who is 36 now. Diaz offsets that, that's fair. Them then getting Kelenic on top of it all skews it too much in their favor.
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Frayed Knot Nov 30 2018 08:13 PM Re: Can You Cano? |
And then there's Ackert (NYDN) who writes: The Mets would also be dumping the salaries of Jay Bruce, who is owed $28 million over the next two years, and Anthony Swarzak, who is in the final year of his two-year, $14 million deal with the Mets, onto the Mariners’ payroll. That roughly leaves $85 million of Cano’s salary remaining over the next five years and the Mets sources said the Mariners will cover much of that.
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A Boy Named Seo Nov 30 2018 09:41 PM Re: Can You Cano? |
FK - I knew you didn’t mean that it was actually two separate deals. I was saying that even mentally splitting them up didn’t work (for me) because neither team would agree to one piece without the other IMO.
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Mex17 Dec 01 2018 04:12 AM Re: Can You Cano? |
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But you can't detach that from Kelenec. Either the Mets taking on the money, thereby alleviating Seattle of the financial burden, equates to less players of lesser quality going to Seattle, or Seatlle forking big money over means that they are compensated for that with a top prospect like Kelenic. You cannot quibble over the amount of dollars that the Mariners kick in without tethering Kelenic directly to those negotiations. That is how these types of trades are supposed to work.
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Centerfield Dec 01 2018 07:06 AM Re: Can You Cano? |
The remaining years left on the Cano contract are foolish. Even if you cut it in half it’s too much. It’s still a bad trade at $60 million.
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Benjamin Grimm Dec 01 2018 08:44 AM Re: Can You Cano? |
I read somewhere that the Commissioner's office has to approve any transaction in which more than $1 million moves from one team to another, and that they only do these kinds of approvals during normal business hours, which means that this thing won't get done until Monday at the earliest. Which gives us an extra two days for this to potentially fall apart for one reason or another, not that I think that's likely to happen.
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Centerfield Dec 01 2018 07:56 PM Re: Can You Cano? |
I’ve resigned myself to the fact that this trade will happen. Nothing to do now but to hope for the best. Maybe Cano will stay productive for three years and Diaz will be as good as advertised.
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Centerfield Dec 01 2018 08:03 PM Re: Can You Cano? |
Looks like it just went official. It’s $20 million. Not $60.
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metsmarathon Dec 01 2018 08:50 PM Re: Can You Cano? |
does this at least maybe hopefully mean that the wilpons aren't skinflint cheapasses for the upcoming season? i mean, if they're just gonna throw money away and all...
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metirish Dec 01 2018 08:50 PM Re: Can You Cano? |
A lot of the MLB writers on Twitter are saying this is 5 years for Cano at $63 million once all the $$$$$ are factored in, whatever, hope it all works out
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TheOldMole Dec 01 2018 08:52 PM Re: Can You Cano? |
I absolutely do not care about the money end of it. It’s not my money. My only concern is whether this makes them a better team. And a worry that settles over me every time the Mets get a star infielder from the American League. The record is not good.
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Ashie62 Dec 01 2018 09:36 PM Re: Can You Cano? |
We get an ace closer, why would Seattle even move Diaz??? Yikes
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LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Dec 01 2018 10:54 PM Re: Can You Cano? |
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Considering how this team has operated over the past decade or so, the two are inextricably related. Hell, they're causally linked. First, if they're getting this little compensation in return for accepting Cano's salary, the prospect cost of obtaining Diaz should be a lot less than it apparently is. That it isn't affects the team's theoretical ability to compete in the near-to-long-term future by either robbing them of a future on-field asset or someone else Kelenic/Dunn could have helped bring in trade. Second, since they're getting this little compensation in return, that impacts their ability to bring in additional players on the FA market. That they're getting this little compensation in return makes this a trade they probably should have let others outbid them to make. The money matters.
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Mex17 Dec 02 2018 05:04 AM Re: Can You Cano? Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Dec 03 2018 02:12 AM |
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Yeah, but is that going to work out in real time once Bruce and Swarzak are actually off the books? It seems to me that it all depends on how and when the $20 million is going to come over. We would not need a penny of it this year since Bruce's $14.5 million (salary plus portion of signing bonus owed in 2019) and Swarzak's $8 million mean that Cano is effectively being paid $1.5 million by the Mets this year. In 2020, you can subtract another $14.5 for Bruce and now Cano is only owed $9.5 million, which would probably be reasonable if you are singing a 37 year old with Cano's track record to a one year contract. So I would be totally fine if Seattle sends us zero dollars over the first two years. That leaves three more years where Cano is owed $24 million per and now you would have $20 million from Seattle to allocate over those three years. The best i can figure it is thusly. . . 2021 (age 38 season): $24 million - $4 million from Seattle = $20 million 2022 (age 39 season): $24 million - $6 million from Seattle = $18 million 2023 (age 40 season): $24 million - $10 million from Seattle = $14 million Is that what BVW worked out? Will we ever know if he did one way or the other? I have no idea.
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smg58 Dec 02 2018 05:23 AM Re: Can You Cano? |
This assumes that Bruce and Swarzak are completely valueless in the meantime, which is naive at best.
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Benjamin Grimm Dec 02 2018 05:35 AM Re: Can You Cano? |
Does this qualify as good news???
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Mex17 Dec 02 2018 07:09 AM Re: Can You Cano? |
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I'm not sure what you are getting at here. I'm talking pure dollars and cents and arithmetic.
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Centerfield Dec 02 2018 07:36 AM Re: Can You Cano? |
You’re discounting their entire salaries. This deduction is incorrect unless the players are completely valueless.
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Mex17 Dec 02 2018 07:50 AM Re: Can You Cano? |
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Of course I am. They are off the Mets payroll and are being paid by Seattle. In turn, Cano is off Seattle's payroll and is being paid by the Mets. I'm not dealing with sabermetrics and speculation here, even if you are. I'm talking only about this deal, these salaries, and math.
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d'Kong76 Dec 02 2018 08:38 AM Re: Can You Cano? |
Put me down for a big fat UGG if this becomes official with only $20 mil coming
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Benjamin Grimm Dec 02 2018 08:39 AM Re: Can You Cano? |
Well, the bone spur hasn't been a problem yet!
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Chad Ochoseis Dec 02 2018 08:40 AM Re: Can You Cano? |
Much of this is about the total disconnect between cost and value in MLB.
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MFS62 Dec 02 2018 08:45 AM Re: Can You Cano? |
You still have to have a lead in a game before you need a closer.
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Centerfield Dec 02 2018 08:47 AM Re: Can You Cano? |
If you’re talking about who is paying what, then you can’t say that the Mets are “effectively†paying Cano $1.5 million this year. Your logic doesn’t add up.
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LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Dec 02 2018 08:58 AM Re: Can You Cano? |
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I ain't no perfesshnul baseball val-you-ate-er, er what fer... But ah 'spect this here's a MASSIVE undervaluation of two top-100 prospects, even if you build a significant amount of risk into the pricing. Even if they end up as three years of cost-controlled bench-player/middle-reliever (right around the fattest part of the possible-results bell curve, yeah?), that in and of itself would probs be worth in the tens of millions in surplus value (assuming the FA price of WAR stays at, like, 8M per). Their real value is-- WAG alert!-- probably more in the $50-60M range. (Consider how many of these move for a guy like Paxton.)
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Benjamin Grimm Dec 02 2018 09:08 AM Re: Can You Cano? |
The only math that matters here is the math that the Wilpons are doing, regardless of whether or not it's accurate.
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LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Dec 02 2018 09:14 AM Re: Can You Cano? |
Fair point. But they got significantly less money back than previously rumored/expected, Grimmy. Do you think that makes them more likely to splash the pot, FA-wise?
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smg58 Dec 02 2018 09:19 AM Re: Can You Cano? |
In 2017, Bruce and Swarzak together were worth more than Cano. Last year they both played hurt. Bruce had an OPS over .800 when he returned, which was perfectly in line with what he normally does when healthy. That won't make anybody take on his full contract by itself, but he's worth a lot more than $3M over 2 years. It's also worth mentioning that they're both younger.
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d'Kong76 Dec 02 2018 09:31 AM Re: Can You Cano? |
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Call me OCD, mentally ill or just plain bonkers... I like me a tidy post!
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Edgy MD Dec 02 2018 10:03 AM Re: Can You Cano? |
[fimg=450]http://www.gstatic.com/tv/thumb/persons/402/402_v9_ba.jpg[/fimg]
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d'Kong76 Dec 02 2018 10:10 AM Re: Can You Cano? |
Dr. Vinny Boombatz has been oddly quiet on this on the twitter this weekend.
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Centerfield Dec 02 2018 04:57 PM Re: Can You Cano? |
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Those in favor of the trade seem to think that this means more moves are on the way. I don’t know if they think this means elite free agents. Let’s hope so. I agree they will sign a few players. I guess we can only wait and see the quality of those players. Personally, I think these headline grabbing trades and trade rumors mean we won’t shop at the top of the market. But we will all soon find out.
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metirish Dec 02 2018 05:30 PM Re: Can You Cano? |
Any word on when the press conference will be? Assume Mets send out official release tomorrow? Big day at CF during the week ?
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Benjamin Grimm Dec 02 2018 05:41 PM Re: Can You Cano? |
My guess is that the trade becomes official tomorrow and the press conference will be on Tuesday. But that's just a guess.
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MFS62 Dec 02 2018 05:51 PM Re: Can You Cano? |
Heard on the radio that the medical stuff can't be reviewed by both teams and signed off until Monday, so it could be Tuesday before they get all the paperwork in order.
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seawolf17 Dec 03 2018 06:32 AM Re: Can You Cano? |
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That's because his plane hasn't landed yet in New York. By the time he gets here, I'm sure he'll have a 12-18 month injury to announce.
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Centerfield Dec 03 2018 08:30 AM Re: Can You Cano? |
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Keith Law thinks it was a mistake. This is from his twitter:
He has an ESPN Insider article too. http://insider.espn.com/mlb/insider/sto ... haunt-them But it's subscription and I can only read the intro. Basically it seems like he's calling it a foolish move. Underestimated the value Kelenic among other teams. I agree with this.
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Benjamin Grimm Dec 03 2018 08:38 AM Re: Can You Cano? |
And it overestimates (in my opinion) the value of a closer. If Diaz is really the best of the best it will be nice to have him, but they've paid too much to get him.
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Centerfield Dec 03 2018 08:45 AM Re: Can You Cano? |
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I mean, at some point I have to let it go. But to do all this when you have all the leverage coming from a no trade clause. It's just mind boggling. Deep breaths.
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Lefty Specialist Dec 03 2018 08:49 AM Re: Can You Cano? |
Law has never been a fan of the Mets, but I can't argue with him about the foolishness of including Kelenic in this deal. Seattle's doing a salary dump and apparently not sending that much money, which should lower the return the Mariners get. That's always the way it works when the Mets dump salary.
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d'Kong76 Dec 03 2018 12:21 PM Re: Can You Cano? |
11:00 AM news conference tomorrow.
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metirish Dec 03 2018 12:44 PM Re: Can You Cano? |
#24 .....last worn by ????? i know this cos I follow Bucket on Twitter
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Benjamin Grimm Dec 03 2018 12:53 PM Re: Can You Cano? |
Rickey Henderson
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d'Kong76 Dec 03 2018 12:55 PM Re: Can You Cano? |
I read Kelvin Torve I think somewhere recently?
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G-Fafif Dec 03 2018 01:23 PM Re: Can You Cano? |
Rickey wore 24 with Willie's blessing in 1999 and 2000. Kelvin Torve wore it in 1990, presumably by bureaucratic foulup. Nobody else has had it since Mays left his coaching position following the 1979 season.
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41Forever Dec 03 2018 02:16 PM Re: Can You Cano? Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Dec 03 2018 02:18 PM |
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Benjamin Grimm Dec 03 2018 02:17 PM Re: Can You Cano? |
I just got the "It's Official!" e-mail from the Mets.
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G-Fafif Dec 03 2018 02:19 PM Re: Can You Cano? |
Press conference will dovetail with Mets' previously scheduled kids' holiday party. Cano and Diaz will double as Santa Nimmo's special helpers.
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seawolf17 Dec 03 2018 02:21 PM Re: Can You Cano? |
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Wilpons allegedly thrilled to be saving money by combining both events into one.
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Benjamin Grimm Dec 03 2018 02:22 PM Re: Can You Cano? |
Kids will be lining up to sit on Diaz's bone spur.
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A Boy Named Seo Dec 03 2018 03:15 PM Re: Can You Cano? |
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Gross
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Centerfield Dec 03 2018 03:53 PM Re: Can You Cano? |
Shockingly, other executives are expressing surprise at the underwhelming returns going back to Seattle for Segura, who had a no trade clause.
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RealityChuck Dec 03 2018 04:17 PM Re: Can You Cano? |
An issue that needs to be addressed is the lack of outfielders now. There are currently only four on the roster (4 1/2 if you count Dom Smith), and one won't play before June.
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A Boy Named Seo Dec 03 2018 06:27 PM Re: Can You Cano? |
How do we spend thy bounty?
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Lefty Specialist Dec 03 2018 06:46 PM Re: Can You Cano? |
For an organization often castigated as being cheap, paying $100 million to a 36-year old seems to be a waste of resources. I mean, if you're going to pay $20 million to Robinson Cano, you'd be better off paying $30 million to either Harper or Machado, no?
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Nymr83 Dec 04 2018 05:45 AM Re: Can You Cano? |
Yup.
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Centerfield Dec 04 2018 08:00 AM Re: Can You Cano? |
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Absolutely. I'm often criticized for harping on money. Some say it's not relevant. Others point to teams with big payrolls that are not successful. Or they say dumb things like "There's no point in spending just for spending." Let me be clear, this is exactly the opposite of what I recommend. I recommend spending wisely, and committing $100 million to a 36 year old PED user is not spending money wisely. I remember last winter, some of the garbage spouted by Sandy was how the Mets had spent more than other teams. You can see how wise those moves were now, when we have to give up prospects to unload those contracts. Make no mistake of the fact that we will eventually be looking to unload the Cano contract. We'll have to eat a significant portion of it, and we may have to give up a prospect. The no-trade will make it even harder. And I can tell you, we're not getting a prospect like Kelenic back when we move him.
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Benjamin Grimm Dec 04 2018 08:05 AM Re: Can You Cano? |
I agree with the above. Cano's contract is almost certain to be a burden in those last couple of years. I guess it's possible that $20 million (the amount the Mets will be on the hook for) won't seem like so much in 2023, but it's hard to imagine that Cano will be worth it even if there's salary inflation.
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A Boy Named Seo Dec 04 2018 08:37 AM Re: Can You Cano? |
Now that we know the Mets are taking on $100M in salary obligations to Cano, it seems they could have signed Brian Dozier as your Cano prototype for around 1 year, $10M and still signed two closery guys (Familia, Andrew Miller, David Robertson, Ottavino whoever) for about 3 years/$30M each, $80M total in new salary obligations. They'd still have Bruce (and Swarzak) to deal with, but those guys are hardly immovable like Cano will no doubt be. Edwin Diaz better be as awesome as advertised cause this move is still a head-scratcher to me.
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A Boy Named Seo Dec 04 2018 09:00 AM Re: Can You Cano? Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Dec 04 2018 09:06 AM |
Press conference apparently on NOW!!!!
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bmfc1 Dec 04 2018 09:05 AM Re: Can You Cano? |
Live on Facebook via the SNY feed.
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metirish Dec 04 2018 09:36 AM Re: Can You Cano? |
BVW is very comfortable in front of the cameras , very smooth
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Benjamin Grimm Dec 04 2018 09:38 AM Re: Can You Cano? |
I suspect that's a big part of why he got hired. Why pick a nerd like Chaim Bloom when you can have Don Draper?
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Vic Sage Dec 04 2018 09:55 AM Re: Can You Cano? Edited 2 time(s), most recently on Dec 04 2018 10:02 AM |
i haven't said anything in this thread because i was hoping it was all just a horrible dream. But i just listened to parts of the press conference, so i guess it has happened.
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G-Fafif Dec 04 2018 10:00 AM Re: Can You Cano? |
Van Wagenen's insistence that the Mets would be "relentless and fearless" echoed Nuke LaLoosh's interpretation of Crash Davis's advice that once Nuke got to the bigs, he must remember to show "fear and ignorance".
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Benjamin Grimm Dec 04 2018 11:39 AM Re: Can You Cano? |
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Jeff Wilpon: Mets wanted to 'block' rival Phillies from All-Star closer Edwin Diaz Psst! Jeff! The Phillies are also interested in Bryce and Manny!
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Frayed Knot Dec 04 2018 12:55 PM Re: Can You Cano? |
Getting a player for the purpose of preventing another team from getting that player is usually a really bad idea.
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HahnSolo Dec 04 2018 01:05 PM Re: Can You Cano? |
Yeah I think Jeff believes he's showing that the Mets aren't to be messed with, but in reality it sounds kind of desperate. And I'd say that might explain why the return to Seattle was pricier than many (myself included) thought it should have been.
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batmagadanleadoff Dec 04 2018 01:16 PM Re: Can You Cano? |
What's the point of trying to figure Jeff out? He's a fucking idiot.
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G-Fafif Dec 04 2018 01:24 PM Re: Can You Cano? |
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Richards said it about the elder Bush (George HW, not Prescott). Jim Hightower's appraisal that Bush was born on third and thought he hit a triple would also apply here.
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Centerfield Dec 04 2018 01:47 PM Re: Can You Cano? |
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I didn't watch the press conference, but the articles look like there are a lot of Jeff quotes. So I guess we are not even pretending that Jeff is not involved anymore right? Basically Jeff Wilpon is our GM, and Brodie is his spokesman.
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Benjamin Grimm Dec 04 2018 01:49 PM Re: Can You Cano? |
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I doubt that that's the case. More likely it's that Jeff wants to share in the glory of the moment, and since he's there, he's going to get questions directed at him.
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Edgy MD Dec 04 2018 02:22 PM Re: Can You Cano? |
Phillies Owner John Middleton: "We're going into this expecting to spend money. And maybe even be a little bit stupid about it. We just prefer not to be completely stupid."
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d'Kong76 Dec 04 2018 02:32 PM Re: Can You Cano? |
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More likely, hold my pinot grigio spritzer... but, yeah...
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smg58 Dec 04 2018 03:25 PM Re: Can You Cano? |
The Phillies’ deal for Segura was perfectly reasonable in comparison, especially since they moved Santana’s contract in the process. And they let the Nationals — who, last I checked, were also division rivals of the Phillies — outbid then on Corbin. Nothing stupid yet. From them, at least.
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Centerfield Dec 04 2018 04:19 PM Re: Can You Cano? |
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JW: No way we were going to let a closer with electric stuff like that go to the Phillies. TAKE THAT YOU CHEESESTEAK LICKING MUTHAFUCKAS!!!!! Hey Jeff, what about future Hall of Famer Bryce Harper. Are you going to block that too? JW: Nah I'm good.
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Edgy MD Dec 04 2018 07:53 PM Re: Can You Cano? |
The paradoxical logic would almost be worth it just to hear Jeff yell "CHEESESTEAK LICKING MUTHAFUCKAS!!!!!" at a public press conference.
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Benjamin Grimm Dec 07 2018 01:26 PM Re: Can You Cano? |
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smg58 Dec 08 2018 05:59 AM Re: Can You Cano? |
Of course, if Cano is not that good of a hitter by the end of his contract, why would sticking him at DH be an appealing option? (Assuming people still care about baseball once the current commissioner gets through ruining it, that is.)
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