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Evan Longoria on big free agents not signing yet

41Forever Jan 18 2019 12:15 PM

Evan Longoria makes some interesting points in an Instragram post. I disagree with some of what he says. Those analytical tools can also be used to show value, and I have to think an agent worth his salt is using them that way. He's also not mentioning that some agents -- including the one for the biggest stars out there this year -- tend to hold back. I don't know about Machado, but Harper had a 10-year, $300 million offer on the table. evan.longoria3 Verified evan.longoria3 We are less then a month from the start of spring and once again some of our games biggest starts remain unsigned. Such a shame. It's seems every day now someone is making up a new analytical tool to devalue players, especially free agents. As fans, why should “value” for your team even be a consideration? It's not your money, it's money that players have worked their whole lives to get to that level and be deserving of. Bottom line, fans should want the best players and product on the field for their team. And as players we need to stand strong for what we believe we are worth and continue to fight for the rights we have fought for time and time again.

smg58 Jan 18 2019 12:24 PM Re: Evan Longoria on big free agents not signing yet

I think Longoria should focus on the doubling of revenue league-wide since A-Rod's first mega-contract, while salaries have only gone up 40%. Analytics is hardly the problem. The league collectively not wanting to hand out contracts that everybody knows they can afford is.

Centerfield Jan 18 2019 12:52 PM Re: Evan Longoria on big free agents not signing yet

I disagree on the analytics point too. Emphatically agree on everything else. Especially this part. As fans, why should “value” for your team even be a consideration? It's not your money, it's money that players have worked their whole lives to get to that level and be deserving of. Bottom line, fans should want the best players and product on the field for their team. And as players we need to stand strong for what we believe we are worth and continue to fight for the rights we have fought for time and time again. There is a strike coming. Make no mistake. If Tony Clark were halfway competent it would have happened already. It is crazy how the owners have been allowed to control the message. Effectively brainwash the fans and get away feigning poverty while lining their pockets every year. It's shameful. And every fan who condoned it and every member of the media shilling for the owners has a share in the blame. smg is right. The revenue sharing, the television rights, all of this has led to owners not being incentivized to win. Why pay for Bryce Harper when the TV rights sell anyway. Why spend to make the playoffs when the revenue sharing check comes in regardless. Sure, the wins will make the fans happy, but the owners don't really care. They would much rather pocket $35 million than push an 88 win team to 95 wins. Why are they allowed to get away with it? Because the media laps it up. They talk about budgets, and the luxury tax and smart efficient spending. They couch the league as a salary cap league, when it's the opposite. Winning on a small budget is glorified. Big spenders are depicted as lazy. Lacking creativity. Signing a player is presented as an "either/or" instead of "why not both?". The beat guys are trying to get on talk shows. Get access. Get features on the team owned broadcasts. So they're quick to rip a kid busting his butt every night who makes a crucial error. But to slam an owner that intentionally elects to handcuff a team's chances at success? Not a word. And the fans are too stupid to realize. They eat up that message. "I don't want to just buy a championship, I want my team to be smart." Or the famous "Spending doesn't guarantee winning! Look at the X team!" Idiots. They play their fantasy baseball and don't realize that real baseball doesn't have a spending limit. They cry that X superstar is a spoiled brat for not being happy with X million. When in fact owners are not happy with X billion. The tendency of the average fan to side with the owners over the players is just shocking. People really don't think things through. When the strike comes, watch as the players are skewered for not being happy making millions playing baseball. And how many idiot fans will voice their agreement.

A Boy Named Seo Jan 18 2019 01:11 PM Re: Evan Longoria on big free agents not signing yet

He's kinda right that fans shouldn't give a crap about value, but wrong that any statistic was created to devalue players. Devaluation is certainly a possible outcome, but not the sole purpose. Fans being WOKE about analytics as it pertains to monetary value is an illusion anyway. I mean, did any of us give a crap about salaries in the Bonilla/Rojas trade 20 years ago, or how the money would affect "who won" the trade? Maybe, but I don't remember that. We 100% know how much a player is making every year. We 100% know what a team's payroll is every year. We 100% know what the luxury tax threshold is every year. We have absolutely no idea how much teams are raking in behind the curtains, numbers which are probably staggering. CF is right that fans' perceptions of which team is "smarter" via controlling costs definitely favors the owners over the players.

Centerfield Jan 18 2019 01:21 PM Re: Evan Longoria on big free agents not signing yet

Go to any bar. Any game. Fans will complain about Jimmy Superstar leaving his beloved team to play elsewhere. "I'd play for free" he complains. And blames Jimmy for being greedy. He doesn't blame the billionaire that owns his team for not paying Jimmy what' he's worth. The fan can think of no better life than being Jimmy Superstar and playing for his favorite team. I think in many cases he literally cannot picture himself as the billionaire that signs Jimmy's checks. And the media feeds right into it. Every day I read these beat guys talk about how there's not much left to spend. Big, huge (and wrong) assumption. There's plenty to spend. There's not much more they're willing to spend.

seawolf17 Jan 18 2019 01:51 PM Re: Evan Longoria on big free agents not signing yet

He's right, yes, but at the same time, I don't begrudge teams from saying "you know what? I can get the same production out of a guy making a quarter of what you make."

Frayed Knot Jan 18 2019 02:00 PM Re: Evan Longoria on big free agents not signing yet

We are less then [sic] a month from the start of spring [I think you mean Spring Training, but continue] and once again some of our games biggest starts remain unsigned. Such a shame. If they don't sign ever then it's a shame. If they don't sign by a particular made-up date then it's called a negotiation. Also, some of the "biggest stars" you talk about have chosen to thus far remain unsigned despite lengthy and lucrative offers. " It's seems every day now someone is making up a new analytical tool to devalue players, especially free agents." -- No, plenty of analytical tools enhance the value of players. You can't just choose the ones which make your side look better and ignore the ones that don't. The other side gets a point of view in this too. " As fans, why should “value” for your team even be a consideration? It's not your money" -- It's not really, except to the point where bad contracts effect a team's ability to sign future players to contracts, unless you want to argue that money is unlimited in which case we need an economics lesson here. "... it's money the players have worked their whole lives to get to that level and be deserving of." -- Deserving of ... to what degree?. Deserving of money? ... yes; of a contract, sure, most of them anyway. But of a contract at what price? Apparently you think that players deserve contracts even at levels that their potential employers believe is a bad value. I'm guessing that they disagree. "Bottom line, fans should want the best players and product on the field for their team. And as players we need to stand strong for what we believe we are worth and continue to fight for the rights we have fought for time and time again. -- And I think you should continue to fight. But not winning every fight isn't a sign of a broken system or flawed metrics.

Mex17 Jan 18 2019 04:56 PM Re: Evan Longoria on big free agents not signing yet

He's also not mentioning that some agents -- including the one for the biggest stars out there this year -- tend to hold back. I don't know about Machado, but Harper had a 10-year, $300 million offer on the table. This. And, also, the "it's not your money" quip when referring to the fans is flat out economic stupidity. Who is paying the ever increasing prices for tickets/parking/concessions? Who is buying the jerseys, caps, and other asorted types of apparel and knick-knaks? Who is paying the subsciption fees for cable and streaming services for games? All of that, Evan, is called revenue. It's what the owners rely on to finance the payroll that goes to you guys.

Centerfield Jan 18 2019 05:43 PM Re: Evan Longoria on big free agents not signing yet

He's also not mentioning that some agents -- including the one for the biggest stars out there this year -- tend to hold back. I don't know about Machado, but Harper had a 10-year, $300 million offer on the table. This. And, also, the "it's not your money" quip when referring to the fans is flat out economic stupidity. Who is paying the ever increasing prices for tickets/parking/concessions? Who is buying the jerseys, caps, and other asorted types of apparel and knick-knaks? Who is paying the subsciption fees for cable and streaming services for games? All of that, Evan, is called revenue. It's what the owners rely on to finance the payroll that goes to you guys. This is a dumb answer. It's not the fans' money. Once they buy the tickets and concessions the money is spent. It doesn't go back to the fans if the owners don't spend it on the players. Evan's point is 100% right. Fans talk about efficiency or payroll flexibility as if this is a salary cap sport. It's really not hard. Every fan should be pressing their owners to spend more. It's amazing how many dumb fans root against their interest. I'm sure Evan is aware of the concept of revenue. And as someone in the industry, he is aware of how revenues have skyrocketed while player salaries have stayed largely stagnant. That will always happen in any business unless there are regulations to help the laborers and unions to create leverage. The business of baseball has taken off but the players haven't gone along for the ride. He's saying the players should get their share of the pie. He's absolutely right. He is clearly frustrated about the public perception that owners are barely scraping by or that there isn't enough money to pay the greedy players. That couldn't be further from the truth. And while revenue is not limitless, we are nowhere near those thresholds. Not even the teams above the luxury tax. Understand this. The owners want you to think players are greedy and overpaid. They want you to think they are cash strapped. It's all bullshit. They are taking it in at a level that the average fan just doesn't comprehend.

Centerfield Jan 18 2019 05:49 PM Re: Evan Longoria on big free agents not signing yet

And although Evan whiffs on the analytics argument, i do understand his frustration. Analytics show that big contracts to older players is not wise. You pay them for past production. Production they are not likely to repeat. The problem is they are underpaid during their prime because those years are lost to team control. So if you don't have to pay young players a lot, and it's dumb to pay older players a lot, then when is a player supposed to be paid? The whole system is being presented in a way to justify owners taking more money for themselves. And fans are being used like pawns to sway public perception.

Vic Sage Jan 22 2019 01:51 PM Re: Evan Longoria on big free agents not signing yet

It's amazing how many dumb fans root against their interest. why would they be any different than the average Republican voter, voting against there own economic interest?

Edgy MD Jan 22 2019 05:23 PM Re: Evan Longoria on big free agents not signing yet

What we're only scratching at are the persistent artificial market constraints that do the most salary dragging: teams' exclusive rights to their players until six years into their big league careers (to say nothing of their minor league careers, where most receive slave wages), the luxury tax, what remains of the compensation rules, territorial exclusivity, the draft ... It's all generally embraced as part of baseball, and it's all boochit. Evan Longoria wants me to be mad about statistical data?