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Farewell to LOOGYs?

41Forever
Feb 06 2019 04:29 AM

[url]http://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/25935056/mlb-players-discussing-rule-changes-alter-game



ESPN's Jeff Passan reports a number of pace-of-game changes are being discussed by the union and league, including a three-batter minimum for pitchers unless hurt or ending an inning.



Topics on the table include: A three-batter minimum for pitchers, a universal designated hitter (though it could be phased in by allowing in inter-league games in NL parks; a single trade deadline before the All-Star break; a 20-second pitch clock, the expansion of rosters to 26 players; with a 12-pitcher maximum; draft advantages for winning teams and penalties for losing teams; a study to lower the mound; a rule that would allow two-sport amateurs to sign major league contracts.


The three-batter minimum for pitchers, first reported by The Athletic, is perhaps the most controversial measure, as it would ostensibly eliminate a job created by modern bullpen use: the one-out left-handed reliever. MLB's proposal of the idea illustrates the league's concern with both time and pace of game, as constant bullpen shuffling has contributed to the average game time lasting longer than three hours. The rule would apply to all pitchers, except in instances in which pitchers finish an inning or are injured, sources said.



The union did not strongly oppose the idea, according to sources, instead suggesting it preferred the implementation to be delayed until 2020 rather than 2019, as MLB proposed.



...



In typical bargaining sessions, dozens of ideas are offered, considered and placed on the back burner, so the likelihood of a handful of these proposals being ratified, let alone all of them, is unlikely, according to sources. Still, as MLB and the union seek to find a place of understanding amid a winter chill that has fractured already-tenuous relations, the mere discussion, sources said, is considered a positive.

whippoorwill
Feb 06 2019 05:39 AM
Re: Farewell to LOOGYs?

What is a LOOGY ?



I like this idea!

41Forever
Feb 06 2019 05:43 AM
Re: Farewell to LOOGYs?

Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Feb 06 2019 05:52 AM

=whippoorwill post_id=2407 time=1549456747 user_id=79]
What is a LOOGY ?



I like this idea!





Hi Whippoorwill, it means left-handed, one-out guy -- when the managers start making the lefty-righty switches in the seventh and eighth inning.

Frayed Knot
Feb 06 2019 05:51 AM
Re: Farewell to LOOGYs?

I'd prefer NOT to place arbitrary limits on things such as the number of hitters one must face. Plus, as soon as you put in the "injury" provision there'll be no limit to how many guys complain of a sprained Mendicular-Johnson joint as soon as they finish pitching to the guy(s) their manager brought them in to deal with. The good thing, though, about sprained Mendicular-Johnson joints is that they heal quickly. Mariano's used to last only about the length of the All-Star break.

You want less in-inning dead time? ... then make pitching changes quicker by getting ALL your warm-ups done before being called in. The distance to, and the size of, the plate are the same on the field as in the pen.



* a universal designated hitter -- I think you know where I stand on this one

* a single trade deadline before the All-Star break -- I don't have a problem with the way things are now, but this is just paperwork stuff which I generally don't get too worked up over one way or the other

* a 20-second pitch clock -- I'd prefer it not be necessary, but it might be necessary. I do like that it's in the minors so that hopefully the next generation of players will grow up with this as the norm

* the expansion of rosters to 26 players; with a 12-pitcher maximum -- 25 vs 26 to me isn't that big a deal, but again with the artificial limits. If you want to carry extra pitchers you weaken you bench ... your choice. And how do you count Ohtani in such a scenario? Can we list Thor as a hitter on days he isn't pitching?

* draft advantages for winning teams and penalties for losing teams -- The devil is in the details on that one

* a study to lower the mound -- eh

* a rule that would allow two-sport amateurs to sign major league contracts -- You mean, allowing the few amateurs with actual leverage to actually use their leverage .. What a concept!!

Edgy MD
Feb 06 2019 06:11 AM
Re: Farewell to LOOGYs?

The expansion of rosters is always floated as a concession to offer in exchange for the union swallowing something less palatiable.



The universal DH would be universally repugnant.



Limits on the number of any one position is silly. Everybody is a potential pitcher.



I'm always confused about the league thinking the game is too long but seemingly have no idea why.

seawolf17
Feb 06 2019 06:20 AM
Re: Farewell to LOOGYs?

I hate rules that fundamentally change the game. Outlawing shifts? Fuck that. Multi-batter minimums? Fuck that. DH? Fuck that.



The intentional walk thing bothered me, but whatever, I guess. The number of times something zany happens on an intentional walk is minimal. I do like the mound visit rule. You want to add a roster spot? Sure, go for it. Pitch clock? Sure, go for it. Earlier trade deadline? Sure, whatever.

smg58
Feb 06 2019 06:23 AM
Re: Farewell to LOOGYs?

Scrap all those idiotic ideas favor of this proposal: get the owners to stop colluding and taking a bigger and bigger share of revenues before the next work stoppage puts more than a year between pitches.

41Forever
Feb 06 2019 06:28 AM
Re: Farewell to LOOGYs?

Joel Sherman tweeting about the proposed changes -- with a Mets note:



Joel Sherman @Joelsherman1





4/Also stronger movement toward adding the DH in the NL. Here is something to keep in mind: 1 HUGE reason #Mets agreed to take on final 5 yrs of Cano's contract was their internal strong belief that the DH was coming to the NL. Also if there is a universal DH, the PA knows

MFS62
Feb 06 2019 06:39 AM
Re: Farewell to LOOGYs?

You want a 20 second pitch clock to help shorten games?

Great, then couple that with a commercial time limit between (half) innings and during pitching changes.

And what's with in-game sponsorship? "That first arranging of a player's junk this game is brought to you by Speedo".

Later

41Forever
Feb 06 2019 07:08 AM
Re: Farewell to LOOGYs?

More from Sherman:



Joel Sherman @Joelsherman1

39m



...Also if there is a universal DH, the PA knows that NL teams would more comfortably make long-term offers to players such as Harper/Machado since if their legs/fielding skills declined, at least there would be a place for their bats. Union countered with general acceptance of a 20-second pitch clock but with many more strictures about how/when it would be in use. To make the game more fan friendly, union offer included much more miking of players, dugouts and even player-to-player mikes so they could be heard chatting during the game."

Gwreck
Feb 06 2019 07:10 AM
Re: Farewell to LOOGYs?

Idiotic proposals that are going to alter the game in bad ways? This is very sad.

smg58
Feb 06 2019 07:25 AM
Re: Farewell to LOOGYs?

=41Forever post_id=2414 time=1549459702 user_id=69]
Joel Sherman tweeting about the proposed changes -- with a Mets note:



Joel Sherman @Joelsherman1





4/Also stronger movement toward adding the DH in the NL. Here is something to keep in mind: 1 HUGE reason #Mets agreed to take on final 5 yrs of Cano's contract was their internal strong belief that the DH was coming to the NL. Also if there is a universal DH, the PA knows



The chances of Cano being worth that contract are slim if he stays at second base.



Look, the guy had a sub-.800 OPS two of the last four seasons, plus he's 36 and coming off a steroids bust. DHs with a sub-.800 OPS are worth... what, exactly? What contract can Evan Gattis expect to get at this point?



And does Rob Manfred really want to ruin the sport in as many ways as he possibly can?

Vic Sage
Feb 06 2019 10:45 AM
Re: Farewell to LOOGYs?

* A three-batter minimum for pitchers - I think specialization has hurt the game, from DHs to LOOGies and ROOGies. It rewards limited players, and leads to over-managing for the slightest of statistical advantages while slowing the pace of play. I'd prefer to see pitchers build careers on being able to get anybody out. With regard to the concern over an "injury loophole", where guys fake an injury (at instruction of manager) to allow for manipulation of the rule, simply require any pitcher taken out for an injury under these circumstances to be placed on a 5-day DL, so the pitcher couldn't be active for 5 days and the team couldn't fill that slot unless the pitcher goes on a longer DL (10, 15, 30 or 60 day). I think teams would then think twice about such manipulations if they were then forced to lose a reliever for a week and had to play shorthanded (literally).



* A universal designated hitter - see above, re: specialization. But I'd prefer to see both leagues play by the same set of rules, whatever they are.



*A single trade deadline before the All-Star break - whatever.



* A 20-second pitch clock - yes, please. And call a K on a hitter who fails to get into the box in time. I hate watching them readjust their gloves and their dicks after ever pitch.



* The expansion of rosters to 26 men, with a 12-pitcher maximum - yes to expansion, no to roster construction limitations. They are also talking about reducing September rosters from 40 to 28, which I also agree with. Frankly, i'd prefer to see larger rosters at the BEGINNING of the season, where teams are still trying to figure out who their best options are, then at the END of the season, where teams in a pennant race suddenly have to play against a team that's out of it, who have 20 pitchers they can use in a game.



* Draft advantages for winning teams and penalties for losing teams - I'd like to see exactly how this would work, but I'm not morally opposed to punishing non-competitiveness, which is often a strategy rather than a circumstance.



* A study to lower the mound - are we in an offensive drought of some sort? I hadn't noticed. If this is to cut down on Ks, I don't know why we would. GMs have figured out that guys who hit for more power (regardless of K rate) are worth more to an offense than those who put the ball in play more often (where random chance starts to become a bigger factor in outcomes). They also value guys who get on base, of course, but that doesn't have to come just from hits. So high SLG & OB rates are valued, and Ks are less relevant, and hitters have adjusted their swings to this new marketplace. I'm not seeing a problem that needs to be fixed.



*A rule that would allow two-sport amateurs to sign major league contracts - sure.

Edgy MD
Feb 06 2019 10:56 AM
Re: Farewell to LOOGYs?

Doesn't virtually everybody start out as a two-(or more-)sport amateur? Even dudes who are convinced to play only one sport in high school are often banging it around the links in the offseason.



Don't want to pay more more money? Well, I'm declaring myself eligible for the pro racquetball circuit.

whippoorwill
Feb 06 2019 11:07 AM
Re: Farewell to LOOGYs?



What is a LOOGY ?



I like this idea!




Hi Whippoorwill, it means left-handed, one-out guy -- when the managers start making the lefty-righty switches in the seventh and eighth inning.


Thank you!



Also from Vic Sage
* A three-batter minimum for pitchers - I think specialization has hurt the game, from DHs to LOOGies and ROOGies. It rewards limited players, and leads to over-managing for the slightest of statistical advantages while slowing the pace of play. I'd prefer to see pitchers build careers on being able to get anybody out. With regard to the concern over an "injury loophole", where guys fake an injury (at instruction of manager) to allow for manipulation of the rule, simply require any pitcher taken out for an injury under these circumstances to be placed on a 5-day DL, so the pitcher couldn't be active for 5 days and the team couldn't fill that slot unless the pitcher goes on a longer DL (10, 15, 30 or 60 day). I think teams would then think twice about such manipulations if they were then forced to lose a reliever for a week and had to play shorthanded (literally).


I love that idea

smg58
Feb 06 2019 11:18 AM
Re: Farewell to LOOGYs?

I think that anything that reduces strategy does not serve the best interests of the game. Especially if all the reductions in strategy benefit the offense. A boom in offensive production has not helped attendance levels, so stop assuming that's what people want.



This does not mean that LOOGYs are necessarily a good thing. Having a pitcher on your roster who can't give you 60 good innings, especially if you're also trying to pitch your starters less, can certainly backfire. But the manager and GM should make those decisions, right or wrong, not the league.

Vic Sage
Feb 06 2019 11:38 AM
Re: Farewell to LOOGYs?

=smg58 post_id=2445 time=1549477081 user_id=62]
I think that anything that reduces strategy does not serve the best interests of the game. Especially if all the reductions in strategy benefit the offense. A boom in offensive production has not helped attendance levels, so stop assuming that's what people want.



This does not mean that LOOGYs are necessarily a good thing. Having a pitcher on your roster who can't give you 60 good innings, especially if you're also trying to pitch your starters less, can certainly backfire. But the manager and GM should make those decisions, right or wrong, not the league.



a 3-hitter rule wouldn't reduce strategies; it would simply change strategies. What it reduces is wasted time and the value of specialists.

seawolf17
Feb 06 2019 11:45 AM
Re: Farewell to LOOGYs?

But it's artificial strategy. (I mean, I guess all rules are "artificial," whatever, but still.) And if you have to put an additional artificial injury qualifier on it so people don't abuse it, then what's the point?

Johnny Lunchbucket
Feb 06 2019 12:07 PM
Re: Farewell to LOOGYs?

Seven inning regulation games.



Would cut out a lot of the stuff they want to monkey with to begin with (too many pitching changes, artificial limits on batters faced etc), chops an hour off game times right off the bat, discourages pursuit of gimmicky extra-inning rules they're also apparently dumb enough to consider, in step with changes in how the game is played physically today (harder throwers, more injuries, lighter loads), doesn't cost the TV stations programming or the owners butts in seats, addresses the game's-too-late-on-a-schoolnight argument from pearl-clutching moms, and probably brings bb in line, timewise, with alternatives like movies and clock-games like fb, bb, hockey etc



7 inning games!

G-Fafif
Feb 06 2019 12:24 PM
Re: Farewell to LOOGYs?

I'm trying to imagine somebody who doesn't much care for baseball deciding that if they'd only tweak the game enough, damn, I want to watch baseball.

seawolf17
Feb 06 2019 12:35 PM
Re: Farewell to LOOGYs?

Seven innings again fundamentally changes the game. I get the benefits, but I hate it more than I hate the DH.

Frayed Knot
Feb 06 2019 12:57 PM
Re: Farewell to LOOGYs?

Johnny Lunchbucket wrote:

Seven inning regulation games.


Fuck that shit!

Johnny Lunchbucket
Feb 06 2019 01:11 PM
Re: Farewell to LOOGYs?

I'd sooner see it than have ties decided by a home run contest

Johnny Lunchbucket
Feb 06 2019 01:24 PM
Re: Farewell to LOOGYs?

=seawolf17 post_id=2460 time=1549481748 user_id=91]
Seven innings again fundamentally changes the game. I get the benefits, but I hate it more than I hate the DH.



I hate it more than the dh too, but its fundamentally pragmatic; nothing else needs to change as it solves so many of the other issues they need to address. no automatic walks, no skills competition, no artificial rule-finagling

A Boy Named Seo
Feb 06 2019 01:26 PM
Re: Farewell to LOOGYs?

=G-Fafif post_id=2459 time=1549481082 user_id=55]
I'm trying to imagine somebody who doesn't much care for baseball deciding that if they'd only tweak the game enough, damn, I want to watch baseball.



Yeah it feels like such a lame attempt to get young people who like MMA to think baseball is cool.

Frayed Knot
Feb 06 2019 03:19 PM
Re: Farewell to LOOGYs?

The "solution(s)" I often hear from those in the sports media who dislike baseball (iow: most of them) always seems to involve their ideas for there being significantly less baseball going forward (shorter games, shorter seasons, fewer teams, more off-days, no overlap with any other sport ever, etc.).

I'll pass on that whole line of thinking if you don't mind.

Edgy MD
Feb 06 2019 04:25 PM
Re: Farewell to LOOGYs?

And I'll pass on the overengineering something that's been pretty good for a long time. You end up creating unintended negative consequences, which you have to deal with through more engineering, which has more unintended consequences, and pretty soon, we're living out the plot to Ωmega Man.

whippoorwill
Feb 06 2019 05:43 PM
Re: Farewell to LOOGYs?

But the recent development of specialist pitchers is not a good thing (imo).

They suck up space on the roster, add zero interest to a game, and making pitching changes just for the sake of a one batter specialist does take up time which would be better served in a real baseball kind of way:



That is: a good pitcher against a threatening batter



Can you tell I am not a fan of middle relievers unless it's a mop up job?

Pitchers should have some class. One batter pitchers are a waste of space



Baseball has become like life. Mediocracy gets a job.

Gwreck
Feb 06 2019 06:45 PM
Re: Farewell to LOOGYs?

Calling, say, Pedro Feliciano “mediocre” is wildly inaccurate, though.



He was very good at what he did and helped the team win many, many games. Obviously his contribution is quantitatively smaller but not every player is a star.



Maybe the overall talent level can seem slightly

diluted if one started watching baseball before various rounds of expansion but these same players had the 24th and 25th spots on the roster whether or not they were only used to face one batter at a time.

Centerfield
Feb 06 2019 07:24 PM
Re: Farewell to LOOGYs?

The talent is not diluted. The population is exponentially more than it was before expansion. Players are coming from all over the world. It's harder than it's ever been to make the major leagues.

Centerfield
Feb 06 2019 07:25 PM
Re: Farewell to LOOGYs?

Frayed Knot wrote:

The "solution(s)" I often hear from those in the sports media who dislike baseball (iow: most of them) always seems to involve their ideas for there being significantly less baseball going forward (shorter games, shorter seasons, fewer teams, more off-days, no overlap with any other sport ever, etc.).

I'll pass on that whole line of thinking if you don't mind.




This.

LWFS
Feb 06 2019 11:38 PM
Re: Farewell to LOOGYs?

Vic Sage wrote:

=smg58 post_id=2445 time=1549477081 user_id=62]
I think that anything that reduces strategy does not serve the best interests of the game. Especially if all the reductions in strategy benefit the offense. A boom in offensive production has not helped attendance levels, so stop assuming that's what people want.



This does not mean that LOOGYs are necessarily a good thing. Having a pitcher on your roster who can't give you 60 good innings, especially if you're also trying to pitch your starters less, can certainly backfire. But the manager and GM should make those decisions, right or wrong, not the league.


a 3-hitter rule wouldn't reduce strategies; it would simply change strategies. What it reduces is wasted time and the value of specialists.



You change the game because the game is problematic. You change stuff around the game because the game is too long.



If you think that players are getting overly specialized in a time where we've got a profusion of everyday-player utilitymen and a pitcher DHing while recovering from Tommy John, I don't know what to tell you. If you're in favor of banning LOOGYs because you think it's a step back toward 10-CG starters, you're mistaken.



The DH is going to happen. Everything else seems like a let's-see-what-sticks thing.

Fman99
Feb 07 2019 04:12 AM
Re: Farewell to LOOGYs?

The DH is to me still the most hateable of all of these proposals.

41Forever
Feb 07 2019 04:48 AM
Re: Farewell to LOOGYs?

I don't Like the DH at all. But I don't think it makes any sense to have half the teams playing with different rules, especially when there is at least one interleague game a day.



I'd rather see the AL eliminate it, but I don't think it will ever happen. So I'm resigned to DHs in the NL.

Centerfield
Feb 07 2019 06:59 AM
Re: Farewell to LOOGYs?

=41Forever post_id=2494 time=1549540124 user_id=69]
I don't Like the DH at all. But I don't think it makes any sense to have half the teams playing with different rules, especially when there is at least one interleague game a day.



I'd rather see the AL eliminate it, but I don't think it will ever happen. So I'm resigned to DHs in the NL.



This is pretty much where I am.



Personally, I think it's kinda cool that there are different rules in the AL and NL, but agree that it doesn't really make any sense.



I guess the DH is coming.



Kinda sucks because right now, we have pitchers that can hit a little bit.

Centerfield
Feb 07 2019 07:11 AM
Re: Farewell to LOOGYs?

Here's my proposal to make baseball better.



Get rid of the offseason. After the WS everyone takes a week off. They've earned their rest. Another week for trades, free agency etc. Nov 15 everyone stops fucking around and reports to spring training. Games start January 1.



Do it Manfred.

Benjamin Grimm
Feb 07 2019 07:16 AM
Re: Farewell to LOOGYs?

I guess we should be grateful for the past 46 years that we had without the DH. I think it makes the game less interesting. I remember Art Rust Jr. (remember him?) saying that fans don't want to see "a chess match" but I happen to like that aspect of the game, trying to think along with the managers. In today's game, the DH makes less sense than ever. Is it that much more fun to see a position player strike out instead of seeing a pitcher strike out?



I do agree that the one-batter reliever adds tedium to the game. I kind of like the idea of the three-batter minimum, as it would add a new element of strategy to the game. If Bryce Harper is at bat with two out and runners on, do you bring the lefty in to face him and try to end the inning, knowing that if you don't get him out, your lefty is going to have to face two right-handed hitters in a situation that's gotten even worse? That could be really interesting. But I also like the option of just making pitching changes faster. As Frayed Knot has said, the number of warm-up pitches by relievers entering the game can be reduced or eliminated.



The change to the trade deadline is supposed to somehow deter teams from cashing in their chips. By making the buyer-or-seller decision have to come earlier, I guess they're hoping that fewer teams will opt to be sellers. I'm not so sure that that will have much of an effect, but perhaps we'll see.



There's also talk of the start-the-inning-with-a-runner-on-second-base rules for extra-inning games in spring training and the All-Star Game. I think this rule is extraordinary stupid, but I don't care much about spring training or All-Star games. The main problem is that if it takes root in those venues then there's the possibility that it could end up polluting regular-season games, which would be a travesty.



There's also a proposal about service time, where that trick of bringing up a player in mid-April instead of at Opening Day will be negated if the player ends up having a high-quality rookie season. If, for example, the Mets bring up Alonso on April 15 and he wins the Rookie-of-the-Year (or hits some other targets) he'd get credit for the full year of service time and would be eligible for free agency after 2024. But if they do that and he's just ordinary, he'd have to wait until 2025. It's kind of strange to give preferential treatment to better players, but I can't get too worked up over this suggestion. I don't think it will deter teams from waiting those two weeks or so.



I've wanted to expand the 25-man roster for years now. I'd like to see a 27-man roster, preferably without the limit on pitchers, although my interest in the expanded roster is because I'd like to see more position players on the bench.



And forget about lowering the mound. If they keep doing this every time pitching is ascendant, in a few decades pitchers will be pitching out of a hole in the ground.



http://ultimatemets.com/covers/2019/20190207_NSD_02.jpg>http://ultimatemets.com/covers/2019/20190207_NYDN_02.jpg>

duan
Feb 07 2019 08:05 AM
Re: Farewell to LOOGYs?

You all know what I want.

PROMOTION AND RELEGATION. Punish people for bad performance. None of this rebuilding shit. Worst 3 records. DOWN.

Trade deadline stays the same, but as opposed to selling off their best players, the bottom teams will be desparately trying to acquire players to better them to stay up. From Japan, From Cuba, FROM WHEREVER just keep us up.



Honestly you guys have no idea the thrill of a relegation dog fight -



https://www.fourfourtwo.com/features/11-most-miraculous-relegation-escapes-english-football



watch these and enjoy.

Remember on each occasion these were usually teams placed 17th (or 19th when it was a 22 team division) playing a team that was 11th or something like that on the last day of the season.

Look at the passion. Look at the joy!

MFS62
Feb 07 2019 08:44 AM
Re: Farewell to LOOGYs?

Edgy MD wrote:

And I'll pass on the overengineering something that's been pretty good for a long time. You end up creating unintended negative consequences, which you have to deal with through more engineering, which has more unintended consequences, and pretty soon, we're living out the plot to Ωmega Man.


Beware the mutant!

We may soon see hordes of creatures wearing baseball uniforms who are only capable of hitting, but not fielding.

Oh, wait.

Later

duan
Feb 07 2019 09:29 AM
Re: Farewell to LOOGYs?

also in particular look at the TORQUAY, 1986/87 -

this is a club that was bottom of division 4 in the football league on the day in question, that means they were effectively in 92nd place in the the professional football system. I can't think of an obvious equivalent but the today's average salary for clubs in that area is about $800-1,000 per week.

Whereas in the premier league it's about $80,000-100,000 per week

smg58
Feb 07 2019 09:49 AM
Re: Farewell to LOOGYs?

Benjamin Grimm wrote:

I guess we should be grateful for the past 46 years that we had without the DH. I think it makes the game less interesting. I remember Art Rust Jr. (remember him?) saying that fans don't want to see "a chess match" but I happen to like that aspect of the game, trying to think along with the managers.


I bet the sport's most loyal fans DO want to see a chess match.


Benjamin Grimm wrote:
I do agree that the one-batter reliever adds tedium to the game. I kind of like the idea of the three-batter minimum, as it would add a new element of strategy to the game.


I'm not a huge fan of LOOGYs, but I believe the manager and GM should decide which players to use and how to use them, not the league front office. Yes the LOOGY adds tedium, but so do replays, fouling people, kneel-downs, and the last two minutes of a close football or basketball game taking half an hour of real time. And yet the NBA and NFL aren't looking to tweak absolutely everything.


Benjamin Grimm wrote:
The change to the trade deadline is supposed to somehow deter teams from cashing in their chips. By making the buyer-or-seller decision have to come earlier, I guess they're hoping that fewer teams will opt to be sellers. I'm not so sure that that will have much of an effect, but perhaps we'll see.


I don't have a problem with teams who stop trying to win in July. I have a problem with teams like the Pirates, who stopped trying to win in 1993. If the league wants more people to go to games, start with that. And then go on to address the two star free agents in their prime that nobody seems to want. Like I said before, there will be more than a year between pitches if Manfred cares more about doing stupid shit that nobody really wants than in addressing the real problem.

Centerfield
Feb 07 2019 10:07 AM
Re: Farewell to LOOGYs?


Benjamin Grimm wrote:

I guess we should be grateful for the past 46 years that we had without the DH. I think it makes the game less interesting. I remember Art Rust Jr. (remember him?) saying that fans don't want to see "a chess match" but I happen to like that aspect of the game, trying to think along with the managers.


I bet the sport's most loyal fans DO want to see a chess match.


Benjamin Grimm wrote:
I do agree that the one-batter reliever adds tedium to the game. I kind of like the idea of the three-batter minimum, as it would add a new element of strategy to the game.


I'm not a huge fan of LOOGYs, but I believe the manager and GM should decide which players to use and how to use them, not the league front office. Yes the LOOGY adds tedium, but so do replays, fouling people, kneel-downs, and the last two minutes of a close football or basketball game taking half an hour of real time. And yet the NBA and NFL aren't looking to tweak absolutely everything.


Benjamin Grimm wrote:
The change to the trade deadline is supposed to somehow deter teams from cashing in their chips. By making the buyer-or-seller decision have to come earlier, I guess they're hoping that fewer teams will opt to be sellers. I'm not so sure that that will have much of an effect, but perhaps we'll see.


I don't have a problem with teams who stop trying to win in July. I have a problem with teams like the Pirates, who stopped trying to win in 1993. If the league wants more people to go to games, start with that. And then go on to address the two star free agents in their prime that nobody seems to want. Like I said before, there will be more than a year between pitches if Manfred cares more about doing stupid shit that nobody really wants than in addressing the real problem.


smg for commish.

whippoorwill
Feb 07 2019 10:32 AM
Re: Farewell to LOOGYs?


Benjamin Grimm wrote:

I guess we should be grateful for the past 46 years that we had without the DH. I think it makes the game less interesting. I remember Art Rust Jr. (remember him?) saying that fans don't want to see "a chess match" but I happen to like that aspect of the game, trying to think along with the managers.


I bet the sport's most loyal fans DO want to see a chess match.


Benjamin Grimm wrote:
I do agree that the one-batter reliever adds tedium to the game. I kind of like the idea of the three-batter minimum, as it would add a new element of strategy to the game.


I'm not a huge fan of LOOGYs, but I believe the manager and GM should decide which players to use and how to use them, not the league front office. Yes the LOOGY adds tedium, but so do replays, fouling people, kneel-downs, and the last two minutes of a close football or basketball game taking half an hour of real time. And yet the NBA and NFL aren't looking to tweak absolutely everything.


Benjamin Grimm wrote:
The change to the trade deadline is supposed to somehow deter teams from cashing in their chips. By making the buyer-or-seller decision have to come earlier, I guess they're hoping that fewer teams will opt to be sellers. I'm not so sure that that will have much of an effect, but perhaps we'll see.




I don't have a problem with teams who stop trying to win in July. I have a problem with teams like the Pirates, who stopped trying to win in 1993. If the league wants more people to go to games, start with that. And then go on to address the two star free agents in their prime that nobody seems to want. Like I said before, there will be more than a year between pitches if Manfred cares more about doing stupid shit that nobody really wants than in addressing the real problem.




The Pirates have had some good seasons lately. Pittsburgh fans are wild about their guys.

G-Fafif
Feb 07 2019 11:24 AM
Re: Farewell to LOOGYs?

When I think of LOOGYness, I think of Dario Alvarez coming into face Bryce Harper in a tie game on Labor Day 2015, when the NL East hung in the balance, and Alvarez striking him out on a full count to end the inning. The next half-inning brought three Mets runs, the third of them punctuated by the iconic David Wright fist pump. We won the game, swept the Nats in that series and all but nailed down the division. Alvarez's one-batter appearance was a true pivot point, LOOGYing at its best.



For all the hurry up and wait pertaining to multiple pitching changes, I'd prefer a moment like that -- and a role like that -- not be disappeared from baseball.

Centerfield
Feb 07 2019 12:03 PM
Re: Farewell to LOOGYs?

=G-Fafif post_id=2526 time=1549563884 user_id=55]
When I think of LOOGYness, I think of Dario Alvarez coming into face Bryce Harper in a tie game on Labor Day 2015, when the NL East hung in the balance, and Alvarez striking him out on a full count to end the inning. The next half-inning brought three Mets runs, the third of them punctuated by the iconic David Wright fist pump. We won the game, swept the Nats in that series and all but nailed down the division. Alvarez's one-batter appearance was a true pivot point, LOOGYing at its best.



For all the hurry up and wait pertaining to multiple pitching changes, I'd prefer a moment like that -- and a role like that -- not be disappeared from baseball.



This makes sense.



If we want to speed up the game, follow FK's suggestion about warm up pitches, and rig those bullpen carts to travel 75 MPH.

Benjamin Grimm
Feb 07 2019 12:04 PM
Re: Farewell to LOOGYs?

They should have the bullpens in an underground cavern beneath the pitcher's mound. Then when a new pitcher comes into the game, the mound will hinge open and the new guy will just have to come up the stairs.

Frayed Knot
Feb 07 2019 12:28 PM
Re: Farewell to LOOGYs?

=Centerfield post_id=2530 time=1549566192 user_id=65]If we want to speed up the game, follow FK's suggestion about warm up pitches, and rig those bullpen carts to travel 75 MPH.



Supposedly the relievers local within the player's union continues to object to the no-(additional)-warmup idea contending that the bullpen mounds and field mounds aren't always the same.

My double-headed rejoinder to that is:

* Bring the pens mounds up to snuff!! ... we have the technology. And if [CROSSOUT]the Yanx[/CROSSOUT] some team wants to lodge a complaint because they think the visitors mound in [CROSSOUT]we just lost two of three park[/CROSSOUT] some pen was sub-par then it's on them to get the measurements to prove it. We have that technology too ... and it's probably sponsored.

* If a manager also buys into that unfamiliarity theory then it becomes a factor in whether or not he opts to make an in-inning change. 'Yeah', he was quoted in the post-game presser, 'my guy was warm and was ready but I didn't want [opposing slugger] to be the first batter he faced right out of the pen while he was still unsettled'. Let's see who has the guts to try and make that case out loud.

nymr83
Feb 07 2019 12:38 PM
Re: Farewell to LOOGYs?


Here's my proposal to make baseball better.



Get rid of the offseason. After the WS everyone takes a week off. They've earned their rest. Another week for trades, free agency etc. Nov 15 everyone stops fucking around and reports to spring training. Games start January 1.



Do it Manfred.


As much as I love this idea, there are issues to work through...



https://i.pinimg.com/474x/de/27/75/de2775e051f0d595a6cebffde6be8e4c--tiger-stadium-detroit-tigers.jpg>

Centerfield
Feb 07 2019 12:52 PM
Re: Farewell to LOOGYs?

Well, first of all, climate change. Eventually there will be no such thing as winter.



In the interim, the answer is simple. All cold-weather teams pick a warm weather destination to play the first few months of the season. Sure, you can be boring and pick your spring training facility. But forward thinkers will pick Aruba. Bermuda. Curacao. The Virgin Islands. Fans will plan their vacations around them. Invigorate the local communities.



YEAR ROUND BASEBALL.

Edgy MD
Feb 07 2019 01:49 PM
Re: Farewell to LOOGYs?


You all know what I want.

PROMOTION AND RELEGATION. Punish people for bad performance. None of this rebuilding shit. Worst 3 records. DOWN.

Trade deadline stays the same, but as opposed to selling off their best players, the bottom teams will be desparately trying to acquire players to better them to stay up. From Japan, From Cuba, FROM WHEREVER just keep us up.



Honestly you guys have no idea the thrill of a relegation dog fight -



https://www.fourfourtwo.com/features/11-most-miraculous-relegation-escapes-english-football



watch these and enjoy.

Remember on each occasion these were usually teams placed 17th (or 19th when it was a 22 team division) playing a team that was 11th or something like that on the last day of the season.

Look at the passion. Look at the joy!


Let duan preach!

metsmarathon
Feb 07 2019 02:31 PM
Re: Farewell to LOOGYs?

i think that if you cut down on the time between pitches, and the time between pitching changes, and the time between innings, you'd solve so much of the "problem" with baseball. you'd have fewer commericals, but you might be able to charge more for each one!



i'd love to see relegation, but i don't think it remotely possible with the way the minor leagues are constructed. it would be great, though, for a major league team like the marlins to get replaced by their own minor league affiliate in the new orleans baby cakes.



i think the revised draft order with the first pick going to the first team to miss the playoffs is the next best thing. it would put a hell of a lot more jeopardy on that wild card plain game, now wouldn't it? i wonder if you would ever have a team try to not make the play-in if they were a real long shot, just so they could have the first pick instead of the 23rd (or whatever)....? but you need to reward teams for competing, especially if so much of the revenues come from league-wide sources and so much less of it is tied directly to their on-field success.

duan
Feb 07 2019 04:05 PM
Re: Farewell to LOOGYs?

Oh don't get me wrong, I know with the current set up of Minor League Affiliation you couldn't have promotion & relegation. But I do think American sports misses SO much by not having it.

Frayed Knot
Feb 08 2019 04:16 PM
Re: Farewell to LOOGYs?

Manfred says No changes to the DH rules or the draft procedures this year.

Continuing talks will focus on pace of play adjustments for 2019.

Fman99
Feb 08 2019 07:33 PM
Re: Farewell to LOOGYs?

Frayed Knot wrote:

Manfred says No changes to the DH rules or the draft procedures this year.


Good.

Frayed Knot
Feb 09 2019 09:44 AM
Re: Farewell to LOOGYs?

Yeah, but the universal DH increasingly sounds like it's a matter of when rather than if.





This is like how bad governments act:

OK, here's a rule that has been both unpopular and controversial since it was put in on an experimental basis as an antidote to conditions that no longer exist.

But we now feel we have no choice but to expand it because temporary has turned into 46 years while we were doing nothing about it and so now it's been entrenched for so long we don't know how to end it.







Back, I think it was in the 1930's, this country built up an 'emergency helium supply' just in case a war broke out and zeppelins were crucial to winning it. That of course never happened but that didn't stop the helium reserve from existing into the 1990s because: a) they had it; b) didn't know what to do with it; c) and it provided jobs in some Congressman's district for some connected schlubs to make sure none of our enemies snuck in during the night and stole it all.

Your tax money at work!!

Frayed Knot
Feb 09 2019 09:44 AM
Re: Farewell to LOOGYs?

Yeah, but the universal DH increasingly sounds like it's a matter of when rather than if.





This is like how bad governments act:

OK, here's a rule that has been both unpopular and controversial since it was put in on an experimental basis as an antidote to conditions that no longer exist.

But we now feel we have no choice but to expand it because temporary has turned into 46 years while we were doing nothing about it and so now it's been entrenched for so long we don't know how to end it.







Back, I think it was in the 1930's, this country built up an 'emergency helium supply' just in case a war broke out and zeppelins were crucial to winning it. That of course never happened but that didn't stop the helium reserve from existing into the 1990s because: a) they had it; b) didn't know what else to do with it; c) and it provided jobs in some Congressman's district for some connected schlubs to make sure none of our enemies snuck in during the night and stole it all.

Your tax money at work!!