Master Index of Archived Threads
Its the end...For Shea
mlbaseballtalk Apr 06 2006 10:21 AM |
Coming in 2009:
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Frayed Knot Apr 06 2006 10:36 AM |
Pitcher Friendly:
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cooby Apr 06 2006 10:42 AM |
I just can't find it in my heart to consider this a happy occasion
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metsmarathon Apr 06 2006 10:43 AM |
big high wall, with integrated pesky pole?
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Edgy DC Apr 06 2006 10:50 AM |
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I'm guessing that 300' is for the right field line, not right field proper.
Fear not. We've heard your requests. We've seen your asses.
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Willets Point Apr 06 2006 10:52 AM |
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MFS62 Apr 06 2006 10:52 AM |
I wonder if those plans have been submitted to MLB for their approval.
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cooby Apr 06 2006 11:09 AM |
That's kinda neat how they got that picture of those people there before it's been built
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MFS62 Apr 06 2006 11:14 AM |
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Consider it a deja vu preview. You have to see it before you can deja it. Later
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Benjamin Grimm Apr 06 2006 11:15 AM |
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I'm with you cooby.
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KC Apr 06 2006 11:19 AM |
Something missing from the story, I should be elated. We all should on
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metirish Apr 06 2006 11:21 AM |
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I agree, as people say, Shea is a dump but it's our dump.
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holychicken Apr 06 2006 11:22 AM |
I am excited.
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Benjamin Grimm Apr 06 2006 11:27 AM |
Potential ballpark naming partners:
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Farmer Ted Apr 06 2006 11:46 AM |
Home plate will be located near the site of the infamous Fire of 1999. The result of some jerkoff using charcoal at his tailgate party and putting the grill UNDER the car to cool down before heading into Shea. That was a pleasant smell while sitting in the leftfield loge.
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Edgy DC Apr 06 2006 11:48 AM |
Your wife hasn't let you forget it, has she?
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Elster88 Apr 06 2006 11:54 AM |
Is there going to be a dome?
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old original jb Apr 06 2006 11:55 AM I'm with you KC, something missing. |
This ballpark seems kind of generic. It's another PetcoCamdenThe BallparkAtYourCityHereNowThrowbackYards. While an improvement over past generic ballparks, this is to the 90's and 00's as 3RiverVeteransMemorialRiverfrontMadeforfootballandbaseballArtificalTurf Stadium was to the 70's.
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Spacemans Bong Apr 06 2006 11:57 AM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Apr 06 2006 11:59 AM |
My stadium was better.
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Elster88 Apr 06 2006 11:58 AM |
One problem: Bret would piss on that Piazza statue.
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Spacemans Bong Apr 06 2006 11:59 AM |
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Not coincidentally, Bob Murphy Field at Tom Seaver Stadium would buck the current trend towards individual urinals with good ol' troughs made out of American steel!
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Edgy DC Apr 06 2006 12:00 PM |
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So much to learn, this paduan.
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Elster88 Apr 06 2006 12:05 PM |
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I've got great memories of Shea. I'll be sad to see it go. But I also don't hold on to the past at the expense of the future. You older Jedi Masters have to learn to adjust to the new and better. And I'm a Knight, not a Paduwan.
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Spacemans Bong Apr 06 2006 12:06 PM |
If they're going to get rid of Shea, I hope they mark where the pitcher's mound is, where 1B is, where Tom Agee made the catch that ended the 1969 World Series and so on. Atlanta did a good job of this:
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old original jb Apr 06 2006 12:06 PM The more I look at it, the more I like it--for the Dodgers. |
I'd like a ballpark that makes more explicit reference to the Mets and Shea stadium, with only a passing nod to Ebbetts Field.
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Gwreck Apr 06 2006 12:10 PM |
The 300' to right field I think is a typo.
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Edgy DC Apr 06 2006 12:10 PM |
HUGE YUPS TO DR. JB!
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86-Dreamer Apr 06 2006 12:11 PM |
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I wonder if the 300 is a misprint. At the bottom of this page it says RF will be 330 feet: http://newyork.mets.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/nym/ballpark/newpark_comparison.jsp
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Willets Point Apr 06 2006 12:12 PM |
Is there an echo in here?
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abogdan Apr 06 2006 12:13 PM |
At least they're keeping the scenic views of the chop shops.
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Benjamin Grimm Apr 06 2006 12:29 PM |
I also agree with JB. I have a suspicion that forty years from now the next generation will want to knock down this new place and build something reminiscent of Shea.
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Centerfield Apr 06 2006 12:35 PM |
I think the Ebbets Field-type facade is ugly.
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Rotblatt Apr 06 2006 01:11 PM |
I like the Ebbet's Field facade thing. I also like the "bridge" theme. Kind of unique, and it's certainly works in NY.
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Benjamin Grimm Apr 06 2006 01:19 PM |
Whatever they name the new park, I hope the fans collectively insist on calling it "Shea."
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metirish Apr 06 2006 01:22 PM |
Speaking of new stadiums, anyone hear anything on the new Busch Stadium?
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ABG Apr 06 2006 01:37 PM |
Only the Mets could have advertisements in the design of the stadium.
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Frayed Knot Apr 06 2006 01:55 PM |
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Is there an echo in here? Mmmm, I guess there is.
Yeah, and virtually every single stadium built since they've put in that rule has ignored and/or gotten a waiver to bypass minimum. Whether it's a typo (I hope) or not, it's a silly rule if they're not going to enforce it. It's like having a law saying you can't do something ... unless you ask nicely.
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Johnny Dickshot Apr 06 2006 02:02 PM |
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Actually looks like the Chop Shops will be obstructed by the high right field stands and scoreboard and the new stadium will be angled so as to offer a better view of the Bay, whitestone, etc.
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sharpie Apr 06 2006 02:19 PM |
1,600(!) seating capacity in the Sterling Lounge plus over 700 in the Ebbets Lounge.
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Benjamin Grimm Apr 06 2006 02:19 PM |
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This reminds me of all those environmental laws that the Bush administration says should be "voluntary."
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G-Fafif Apr 06 2006 02:55 PM |
For those who will miss "the old dump," think how the old dump itself feels today.
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ABG Apr 06 2006 03:59 PM |
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OUTSTANDING.
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Sandgnat Apr 06 2006 04:21 PM |
Is there any chance that the escalators will actually work all the way to the upper deck in this new stadium?
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DocTee Apr 06 2006 04:34 PM |
Interesting choices for players to appear at the press conference: I get Beltran, Reyes and Wright, but Anderson Hernandez and Roger Royce Ring?
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Methead Apr 06 2006 05:11 PM |
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ScarletKnight41 Apr 06 2006 05:15 PM |
Sure Greg - go make me feel guilty for wanting a new stadium....
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Iubitul Apr 06 2006 05:28 PM |
Shea is a dump. At Opening Day last year, it was filthy. the escalators didn't work. Basically an eyesore. It was then that I stopped saying, "Shea's a dump, but it's our dump". I just started only saying, "Shea's a dump".
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Johnny Dickshot Apr 06 2006 05:35 PM |
Super hi-res here:
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Benjamin Grimm Apr 06 2006 06:21 PM |
If the only thing making it a dump is dirt and escalators, it can be fixed with cleanser and a call to a repairman. Dirt, stopped escalators and leaky pipes isn't an excuse to knock the place down.
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metsmarathon Apr 06 2006 06:44 PM |
"I can try. Give me some bricks! I can wear bricks!"
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mlbaseballtalk Apr 06 2006 09:27 PM |
Maybe its that I've only been going for the last 21 years, but I don't know sometimes complete change is for the best rather than trying to shine up a "piece of turd"
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soupcan Apr 07 2006 07:24 AM |
Personally I'm more worried about increased ticket prices and seat availability.
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Edgy DC Apr 07 2006 07:37 AM |
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It's not a "piece of turd" either. It's like if we say stuff like that we can get ourselves worked up enough to believe it.
I don't believe this either.
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Johnny Dickshot Apr 07 2006 07:44 AM |
Purple shirt: Four hundred bucks for those forged tickets: Dude, you rock!
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Iubitul Apr 07 2006 07:44 AM |
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Ding! Ding! Ding! We have a winner! That's exactly why they are making a smaller stadium - Increased demand to jack up ticket prices....
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mlbaseballtalk Apr 07 2006 09:24 AM |
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Cold hard truth right here: -Shea has been for several decades now considered the worse ballpark by players, media and fans in all of sports, not just baseball. It is not a "cherrished" ground that should be preserverd by conversationalists or other groups -To that point, Shea IS the template that led to other monolithic football/baseball stadiums, or as they were all considered blights, accross America during the 70's, most have FINALLY seen their demise (Riverfront, Three Rivers, Busch II, Vet in Philly, Fulton County in Atlanta, ect) -Difference between Shea and Dodger besides Dodger Stadium being a baseball-only stadium is that Flushing Meadows is a dump. An industrial area in the Northeast that is bordering air fields and a harbor. Not to mention Shea IS built on a land fill! What do you think will happen to a structure after 40+ years? Chavez Ravine? Great weather 365/7, scenic atmosphere, thats a recipe for a ballpark lasting generations. -Shea again was built during an industrial time that wasn't looking for long-term outlooks. This is not a quaint, elegant designed structure built a century ago, this is a building that was built with the "because we can" mentailty of post-WWII "master builders" specifically one named Robert Moses. That alone should tell you that Shea wasn't meant to stand for "A Thousand Years" Moses was a tinkerer. If he thought Shea should have been redone in 74 and something bigger, grander, more monolithic, put in its place, he would have done it. In other words, Shea Stadium has been living on borrowed time for quite a while, time to change with the times and do away with an eyesore that is a symbol of a failed concept and that is hated by the general community. Bottom line. Steve
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Benjamin Grimm Apr 07 2006 09:42 AM |
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And that's one of my arguments for keeping it. If Shea were to continue in use for another forty years, it would be every bit as quaint and charming as Wrigley Field. I'm sure Wrigley went through a period when it was considered horribly old fashioned, with obstructed view seats, no modern amenities, etc. It's that mode of thinking that caused Crosley Field, Forbes Field, Shibe Park, Ebbets Field, and many other parks to be torn down. Wrigley and Fenway survived that period, and they're now beloved. The same would happen to Shea. All types of architecture go through an unloved, tear-it-down period in which many examples are torn down. There were actually people who wanted to tear down the Brooklyn Bridge and Independence Hall in the past because the structures were old and ugly.
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Edgy DC Apr 07 2006 09:54 AM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Apr 07 2006 09:57 AM |
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They are not the issue, and I'd rather they weren't dragged into it.
Dodger Stadium is, also, definitely not the issue. Shea is not a dump. A dump is where you dump stuff. This is a metaphor, not a cold hard truth.
A lack of quantness is not a death-sentence. The presence of quaintness is not a pardon from a death sentence. Much suppossed quaintness in ballparks is absolutely faux crap that willl get it tagged as a dump within a generation, at which point another ill-advised movement will be afoot to rob the public coffers. Quaintness is also not the issue. Shea was also built in conjunction with a futurist World's Fair, that gave it's architecture a future-modern excitement, at least by intention. This cold hard fact, though representative of a deluded --- though optimistic --- view of history and industry, makes Shea a rather important relic of history.
Eyesore --- that's a legitimate issue. But what indeed do you think makes it an eyesore? Can these things be fixed or improved. That's what we should be arguing about. I think brick buildings are lovely, but a brickface façade on a non-brick building that is borrowed from a building representing a community ballpark on a city street corner is nothing but a false quaintness that is an aesthetic annoyance that allows people to live the lie that neightborhoods and downtowns and cultural niches are flourishing in our cities, when it's Walmart and Disney making everything the same, destroying cultural variation, and making us vulnerable to cultural viriuses like, um, Christina Aguilera. I've said too much.
Opinions are fine. Too many of them are masquerading as fact though.
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mlbaseballtalk Apr 07 2006 09:54 AM |
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Not just hike in ticket prices, concession prices, parking prices, and prices in general, but more expensive luxury boxes come with less seating as well! Thats where the real Ding! Ding! Ding! KA-CHING! is coming from
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mlbaseballtalk Apr 07 2006 10:04 AM |
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We are talking about a ballpark though. Something only a small segment of the society (okay not THAT small, but it is a segment) uses and/or wants Not a place where this country's very history was forged, and not a structure meant for use by everyone who travels through New York. And I'll give you the bridge considering that it has withstood the test of time while bridges constructed during the Moses expansion era are detoriating rapidly, leaving more congestion and roadwork that seems to never be completed all over the 5 boroughs and Westchester
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Elster88 Apr 07 2006 10:04 AM |
Here's one reason not to get a new stadium. I'm not going to like telling people that I'm headed to Walmart Stadium. Maybe they can just suck it up and spend the extra dollars and not sell the name.
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soupcan Apr 07 2006 10:06 AM |
That ain't gonna happen.
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mlbaseballtalk Apr 07 2006 10:25 AM |
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Every year there are polls listing Shea as one of, if not the worse ballpark, this is going back to the 70's. By fans, players and media. And the second part I meant Shea should not be considered a ground targeted by the landmark preservation (word I was actually looking for but conversationalists came out) community.
So your point is the Mets should exist inside a vacum? Stadiums going up with more luxury boxes and less seats. I'll grant you it's a flawed business model if you want to make it a money generator (bad team, no people, no money) but it is the way the "winds of change" are blowing
Shea was built on top of a land fill, not as metaphorical as you'd think. It really was built on a dump.
Re-read what I said about Fairfield University. The campus center, radio station, the student government offices and other student organizations had the same look as they probably looked in 1969. Quant, but not what a modern college campus should be. Now they do. Yes tuition was probably increased a lot, but things do need to change.
Do you want people to forever be reminded of a deluded, failed vision? Important relic of history? I'll give you the site of the first stadium rock concert, but thats about all I'll give you.
That I'll agree with. Freddie should have moved off his "Ebbetts II" idea after that retractable dome idea fell by the wayside. But what do you suggest? The monolith that is coming to DC? Steve
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Edgy DC Apr 07 2006 10:56 AM |
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Now it's "one of" the worst and not the worst. I'd like to discuss the actual polls, and address the issues cited.
My point is that I don't know what your poiint is. I'll agree that Shea is not Dodger Stadium if you'll agree that it's not Riverfront Collisseum. And the Empire State Building isn't the Leaning Tower of Pisa (and God help us if it was). To Heck with winds of change. Champions sail to their own wind.
And how is that an issue? Is rusted metal coming up through the ground and threatening the ballplayers. This new park is going to be built about 30 feet away, so I can't see how this complaint can damn the old park and not the new.
Good architects can upgrade facilities without razing the building. A successful (to your eyes, at this point) rebuild doesn't mean a successful renovation would have been impossible, only that somebody determined the costs of such a thing outweighed the benefits.* But I want a ball team (and a university, for that matter) that boldy zags when everybody else zigs, and therefore have a large unique market niche in a sea of sameness.
Well, gee, sight of a lot more than that. The vision isn't quite failed either. Jetson-like techno-idealism still flourishes in many corriders, is just that information technology has replaced the autmation technology in these visions. To the extent that it hasn't succeeded, yeah, let it be memorialized, for the energy, ambition, excitement, innocence, and hope it embodied. Dreams of the future-modern were as much to credit as the Beatles for keeping our country trom falling into a cultural/industrial maliase after Kennedy died. And they got Neil Armstrong's ass to the moon, didn't they? Didn't they?
What I'm suggesting is improving Shea in a way that honors the past and the better and best ideas of the future. What's coming to DC is a travesty. I'm used to economic and cultural and architectural travesties in DC, and I don't freaking care about the Nationals. Not so New York. Not so the Mets. ____________________________ *Universities, I suspect. are at a disadvantage here, because the family of a rich alumn from 1957 who donates a new building gets his name on it, the famiy of a rich alumn who donates money to renovate a building already named for a rich alumn of 1906 doesn't, and those folks are perhaps less inclined to donate without a building/monument to Papa. Just a specualtive footnote there.
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soupcan Apr 07 2006 11:15 AM |
I think they'd be remiss in not including the scoreboard skyline in the new place.
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mlbaseballtalk Apr 07 2006 12:09 PM |
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