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Know What's Cool?

Edgy MD Mar 07 2019 07:48 PM

Looking at the thumbnail photos for all the single-season WAR leaders. All but one are in black-and-white. Most are from before the war, and by "the war," I mean "The Spanish-American War." But again, one is not. https://metsrostercentral.files.wordpress.com/2019/03/screen-shot-2019-03-07-at-9.45.07-pm.png>

Benjamin Grimm Mar 08 2019 05:45 AM Re: Know What's Cool?

I can only identify (in addition to Doc, of course) Walter Johnson and Babe Ruth. Who's the third guy in the top row? He stands out because he, unlike the others, has a facial expression.

Edgy MD Mar 08 2019 06:07 AM Re: Know What's Cool?

That's the great Pud Galvin. I assumed that #1 must be Old Hoss Radbourn, but I assumed wrong. He's #2. The best single-season WAR total belongs to Tim Keefe. In 1883, playing for the original New York Metropolitans, he earned 21.1 WAR — 19.8 on the mound and 1.3 otherwise.

whippoorwill Mar 08 2019 07:35 AM Re: Know What's Cool?

If you explain WAR to me I'll enjoy this more. I love the pictures!

Edgy MD Mar 08 2019 08:06 AM Re: Know What's Cool?

WAR stands for Wins Above Replacement. The idea is that a team with Tim Keefe wins 21 games more than the same team with (say) Chris Flexen (or the equivalent) taking his role. Anybody who reaches double digits has had an incredible season. Dwight Gooden in 1985 had what is still the most valuable season (13.3 WAR) since the world became color. And he didn't win the MVP. And he didn't even come particularly close.

whippoorwill Mar 08 2019 09:35 AM Re: Know What's Cool?

Benjamin Grimm wrote: I can only identify (in addition to Doc, of course) Walter Johnson and Babe Ruth. Who's the third guy in the top row? He stands out because he, unlike the others, has a facial expression. not to mention it looks like a mug shot

Edgy MD Mar 08 2019 10:30 AM Re: Know What's Cool?

The other nicknames listed for James Francis "Pud" Galvin are "Gentle Jeems" and "The Little Steam Engine." He's listed at 5'8", but I imagine he was smaller, because he's often described in terms of his underwhelming size. He came up at 18, so maybe he was smaller then. But even in the 19th century, 5'8" is pretty small for a pitcher, especially one who threw 656 1/3 innings in a single season. That included 72 complete games!!

whippoorwill Mar 08 2019 01:25 PM Re: Know What's Cool?

Speaking of complete games, and I do not want to railroad this awesome thread, but I came across "Mookie" in my bookshelf last week, and the complete games that were pitched in the 80's were incredible. They were expected, even that recently, to finish a game unless it was a bad start. Now I think I understand why I really don't have much patience for baseball anymore. The pitching is just so watered down.

Frayed Knot Mar 08 2019 01:28 PM Re: Know What's Cool?

Edgy MD wrote: The other nicknames listed for James Francis "Pud" Galvin are "Gentle Jeems" and "The Little Steam Engine." With a primo nickname like 'Pud', what's even the point of alternatives?

Frayed Knot Mar 08 2019 01:43 PM Re: Know What's Cool?

=whippoorwill post_id=4022 time=1552076745 user_id=79]... the complete games that were pitched in the 80's were incredible. They were expected, even that recently, to finish a game unless it was a bad start. Now I think I understand why I really don't have much patience for baseball anymore.

Of course the '80s had fewer complete games as compared to earlier decades so the same sort of arguments could have been made then.

CGs have pretty much been trending downhill since the 1880's

The pitching is just so watered down.

I'd actually make the argument that one reason for the lack of CGs is that pitching staffs today are deeper than they've ever been, that the gap between the best pitchers on your staff and the back of the line guys isn't as stark as it once was. And if your good relievers aren't a step down from the starter (at least n the short run) then the replacement is actually a good bet to be even better than the starter who's 100 or so pitches into his day and seeing the lineup for the third time around. Back when hurlers 1, 2, and 3 were miles ahead of 9, 10, and 11 you'd be more reluctant to switch off of the top guys unless and until it couldn't be avoided.

Frayed Knot Mar 08 2019 01:44 PM Re: Know What's Cool?

Know What's Cool? Cargo shorts?

RealityChuck Mar 08 2019 02:07 PM Re: Know What's Cool?

Frayed Knot wrote: I'd actually make the argument that one reason for the lack of CGs is that pitching staffs today are deeper than they've ever been, that the gap between the best pitchers on your staff and the back of the line guys isn't as stark as it once was. And if your good relievers aren't a step down from the starter (at least n the short run) then the replacement is actually a good bet to be even better than the starter who's 100 or so pitches into his day and seeing the lineup for the third time around. Back when hurlers 1, 2, and 3 were miles ahead of 9, 10, and 11 you'd be more reluctant to switch off of the top guys unless and until it couldn't be avoided. Chicken and egg. If your pitchers aren't throwing complete games, you want better relievers, which makes you more likely to pull the starter and the circle of life continues. It was a long-term trend, but Sparky Anderson's "quick hook" in Cincinnati showed it was a winning strategy.

Edgy MD Mar 08 2019 03:10 PM Re: Know What's Cool?

Sparky Anderson never really had a quality starter until Seaver.

stevejrogers Mar 08 2019 04:49 PM Re: Know What's Cool?

Don Gullet wasn't considered an Ace back in the day? Obviously not on Seaver/Carlton/Sutton/Richard level, but on that next tier, but still Ace material?

Edgy MD Mar 08 2019 08:35 PM Re: Know What's Cool?

He was certainly the best of the lot. He never made an All-Star Game, though he was probably among the top ten pitchers in the league once or twice but didn't make an All-Star team because there were already eight Reds hitters on the team. Lost to the Mets in the post-season, too. Gary Nolan and Jack Billingham also had some brief runs of quality. But the seasons they got high win totals can largely be credited to having the Big Red Machine behind them, and Sparky replacing them with Pedro Bourbon at the first sign of trouble. None of the three of them had a career as good as, say, Ron Darling.