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Flipping Out

Centerfield Apr 18 2019 08:01 AM

So after the aftermath of the Royals-White Sox brawl, what's everyone's position on bat flips? Obviously shades of gray here, but generally for me: Bat Flips: Bat flips are fun. Obviously don't do it for the purpose of showing up your opponent, but any bat flip arising from actual emotion from getting a big hit is ok by me. Anderson's was pretty big, but he looked like he was genuinely pumped from hitting a big HR. Where I draw the line is (a) taunting. Don't direct your celebration at the pitcher or other team, and (b) don't make it part of your "thing". A choreographed routine that you're trying to play off as your "signature" move or some bullshit like that. Displays of Emotion on the Mound: Same thing. If you're pumped, feel free to show it. Don't taunt your opponent. Please don't try to make a signature move. What was it? The Mejia Stomp? That was dumb. Throwing at Batters: Throwing Inside to Establish the Inside Corner: Always ok. Even if it means plunking a guy here and there by accident. Throwing up and In to send a Message: Ok, depending on the circumstance. Nothing at the head. Moving his feet, knocking him down. Again, depends on the circumstance. If they're teeing off on you and you feel like they're cheating out over the plate, sure. If you're just pissed you gave up a HR, then no. There should be a legitimate baseball reason to intentionally throwing inside. Throwing over a batter's head to intimidate him: The old "Hit the Mascot". This is ok. Just make sure you miss. Intentionally Throwing at Batter: Definitely ok when that exact batter (pitcher) has intentionally hit one of your players. (the Clemens situation). I'm torn on whether it's ok to hit another player on the other team because your guy got hit. Example: Jake Arrieta throws at Pete Alonso and gets tossed. It it ok now for Wheeler to peg Bryce Harper? Is he supposed to hit Bryce Harper? I can see both sides. Either way, nothing above the neck. Intentionally Throwing at a Batter's Head: Never ok. You can kill him dickhead.

Ceetar Apr 18 2019 08:10 AM Re: Flipping Out

It's pretty simple for me. do whatever celebration you want. Sports is fun, entertainment, and bat flips are damn entertaining. do not throw at people. 95+ mph missiles are legit weapons and can hurt someone. Also I don't understand how making home runs with bat flips count for 5 total bases is supposed to be a deterrent anyway.

MFS62 Apr 18 2019 08:34 AM Re: Flipping Out

I'm for the the rule that states that if a pitcher throws a shard of a shattered bat at the hitter, he is banned for life. Let's call it the, um, Fat Coward in Pinstripes Rule. Later

HahnSolo Apr 18 2019 08:37 AM Re: Flipping Out

If a guy shows up the pitcher, then in his next AB, he gets one in his rear end, I think they're even. What I'm not sure in this case is whether Anderson was showing anybody up with the original flip. Looked like genuine emotion.

seawolf17 Apr 18 2019 08:40 AM Re: Flipping Out

I agree with CF on all counts here.

metsmarathon Apr 18 2019 08:52 AM Re: Flipping Out

=HahnSolo post_id=7622 time=1555598226 user_id=63] If a guy shows up the pitcher, then in his next AB, he gets one in his rear end, I think they're even. What I'm not sure in this case is whether Anderson was showing anybody up with the original flip. Looked like genuine emotion.

if a pitcher shows up a hitter, can the batter hit him with his bat, to get even?



because pitchers have been showing up hitters all willy-nilly for years.

Johnny Lunchbucket Apr 18 2019 09:45 AM Re: Flipping Out

I know it's a quaint notion but I'm into "sportsmanship" however that plays out. Compete hard, but respectfully, be aware of actions that could put your team in a compromised position, understand that the other team are trying to win too.

G-Fafif Apr 18 2019 10:02 AM Re: Flipping Out

If a Met does it, it's fine. If an opponent does it to a Met, it's not.

A Boy Named Seo Apr 18 2019 10:24 AM Re: Flipping Out

I think sportsmanship and celebration can co-exist happily. I also think when you're on the losing side of a sports competition, especially if you're a pitcher, your opposition was mathematically likely to fail before your matchup. You will have plenty of times to get even. Chill, my dude.

Johnny Lunchbucket Apr 18 2019 10:28 AM Re: Flipping Out

I just watched the thing. Anderson's celebration was a little too demonstrative and his reaction to taking to a pitch on the butt for having done that is pretty disingenuous and wasted everyone's time.

A Boy Named Seo Apr 18 2019 10:59 AM Re: Flipping Out

Not for nothing, but I wonder if the perception around baseball would be different if the plunker was Chris Archer and the homer-hitting, bat-flipping plunkee was Paul Goldschmidt.

Fman99 Apr 18 2019 11:38 AM Re: Flipping Out

Hit a big HR? Take your rig out and drag it around the bases. You earned it. It's hard to hit a baseball that far! Plus, yeah, inside, high and tight. Make them get out of the way. It's your strike zone.

Ceetar Apr 18 2019 12:54 PM Re: Flipping Out

A Boy Named Seo wrote: I think sportsmanship and celebration can co-exist happily. Bat flip to your hearts content. Maybe don't bat flip while demonstratively mocking the pitcher. Pump your fist, don't flip the pitcher the bird. Afterwards anyway. If flipping the pitcher the bird on 3-2 gets you a ball and a walk, absolutely do it.

kcmets Apr 18 2019 01:33 PM Re: Flipping Out

My team - do whatever the fuck you want. Other team - put your head down and round those bases quickly and don't even think about cracking a smile.

A Boy Named Seo Apr 18 2019 01:34 PM Re: Flipping Out

A Boy Named Seo wrote: Not for nothing, but I wonder if the perception around baseball would be different if the plunker was Chris Archer and the homer-hitting, bat-flipping plunkee was Paul Goldschmidt. So I'm a dumb turd and Chris Archer did plunk someone who styled a home run off him (Derek Dietrich in the ketchup/mustard duel mentioned here). I don't know who the heroes and villains were in this one, but at least it looked good on tv. [TWEET]https://twitter.com/Cut4/status/1114965703541559298[/TWEET]

Lefty Specialist Apr 18 2019 01:36 PM Re: Flipping Out

My policy: If it makes you look like an a-hole, don't do it.

MFS62 Apr 18 2019 02:27 PM Re: Flipping Out

Lefty Specialist wrote: My policy: If it makes you look like an a-hole, don't do it. Then the folks across town who wear those pinstriped uniforms without their names on the back should strip down to their shorts or get new uniforms. And so should the fans who wear those jerseys with a number 2 on the back. Later

Frayed Knot Apr 18 2019 04:49 PM Re: Flipping Out

Johnny Lunchbucket wrote: I know it's a quaint notion but I'm into "sportsmanship" however that plays out. Compete hard, but respectfully, be aware of actions that could put your team in a compromised position, understand that the other team are trying to win too. This is pretty much where I'm at too. This whole topic, along with baseball's long-time aversion to such things, got a big boost from Joey Bats in that Toronto/Texas playoff series from a couple years ago. But that was not only a playoff game but his HR was a come-from-behind, late-inning shot in what had already been a tense and emotional series*. Now had Bautista done the exact same thing on a random Tuesday night in May I would have been at the head of the line in criticizing him. But the context of when and where he did it made all the difference in the world and therefore something I didn't have a problem with at the time. * can't remember now whether that HR came before or after he got punched by Rougned Odor after sliding into 2nd base

dgwphotography Apr 18 2019 06:34 PM Re: Flipping Out

[TWEET]https://twitter.com/super70ssports/status/1118737446747947008?s=21[/TWEET]

MFS62 Apr 18 2019 07:14 PM Re: Flipping Out

In Joe Garagiola's book Baseball is a Funny Game, he told the story of a pre-game batting practice in which Early Wynn's 18 year old son hit a home run off him. On the next pitch, Wynn knocked him down with a high inside fastball. Famous "head hunter" Don Drysdale threw at Frank Robinson only twice. Both times, Robinson got back up and hit home runs. Drysdale never threw at him again. Both sides have been "retaliating" for years. If there is no intention to harm, I don't think something like bat flipping should legislated out of the game. Later

Edgy MD Apr 18 2019 08:14 PM Re: Flipping Out

I'm all for the respect. But the down side is respect-creep. One guy says you're not allowed to celebrate after jacking a homer. Then next guy over-interprets that unwritten law and demands that you not celebrate as you cross the plate. Or when you get to the dugout. I think that's silly. If you stop and face a guy as you celebrate, you are showing him up. If you pump your fist as you round a base, you're not. If you point to the crowd and encourage them to scream as you reach the bases, you are showing him up. If you accept a high five from your base coach, you are not. If you stop jump on the plate and shake and/or twerk your ass, you are showing him up. If you take a leap to land on the plate to savor the moment you are not. Let's have some nuance here. It's like a moral version of the civil liberties axiom that your right to swing your arm ends at the point that you're hitting my elbow. Your entitlement to show how good you feel ends at the point where it's deliberately directed at me to embarass me and make me feel like shit. Also, while I agree that the stomp (and the flaming arrow) are stupid, when the game ends, the field belongs to the winners. If a guy gets a game-winning hit, or completes a save, he is by definition part of the home team, and the loser's job is to quietly withdraw while the players and fans celebrate the win.

Zvon Apr 18 2019 10:26 PM Re: Flipping Out

So after the aftermath of the Royals-White Sox brawl, what's everyone's position on bat flips? Obviously shades of gray here, but generally for me: Bat Flips: Bat flips are fun. Obviously don't do it for the purpose of showing up your opponent, but any bat flip arising from actual emotion from getting a big hit is ok by me. Anderson's was pretty big, but he looked like he was genuinely pumped from hitting a big HR. Where I draw the line is (a) taunting. Don't direct your celebration at the pitcher or other team, and (b) don't make it part of your "thing". A choreographed routine that you're trying to play off as your "signature" move or some bullshit like that. Displays of Emotion on the Mound: Same thing. If you're pumped, feel free to show it. Don't taunt your opponent. Please don't try to make a signature move. What was it? The Mejia Stomp? That was dumb. Throwing at Batters: Throwing Inside to Establish the Inside Corner: Always ok. Even if it means plunking a guy here and there by accident. Throwing up and In to send a Message: Ok, depending on the circumstance. Nothing at the head. Moving his feet, knocking him down. Again, depends on the circumstance. If they're teeing off on you and you feel like they're cheating out over the plate, sure. If you're just pissed you gave up a HR, then no. There should be a legitimate baseball reason to intentionally throwing inside. Throwing over a batter's head to intimidate him: The old "Hit the Mascot". This is ok. Just make sure you miss. Intentionally Throwing at Batter: Definitely ok when that exact batter (pitcher) has intentionally hit one of your players. (the Clemens situation). I'm torn on whether it's ok to hit another player on the other team because your guy got hit. Example: Jake Arrieta throws at Pete Alonso and gets tossed. It it ok now for Wheeler to peg Bryce Harper? Is he supposed to hit Bryce Harper? I can see both sides. Either way, nothing above the neck. Intentionally Throwing at a Batter's Head: Never ok. You can kill him dickhead. Totally agree with all of this.

nymr83 Apr 19 2019 07:09 AM Re: Flipping Out

=Centerfield post_id=7611 time=1555596069 user_id=65] So after the aftermath of the Royals-White Sox brawl, what's everyone's position on bat flips? Obviously shades of gray here, but generally for me: ...... Intentionally Throwing at Batter: Definitely ok when that exact batter (pitcher) has intentionally hit one of your players. (the Clemens situation). I'm torn on whether it's ok to hit another player on the other team because your guy got hit. Example: Jake Arrieta throws at Pete Alonso and gets tossed. It it ok now for Wheeler to peg Bryce Harper? Is he supposed to hit Bryce Harper? I can see both sides. Either way, nothing above the neck. Intentionally Throwing at a Batter's Head: Never ok. You can kill him dickhead.

I pretty much agree with the CF rules. but lets not forget the real problem: the Designate Hitter. In a world without Designated hitters, scumbags like Clemens will always get theirs and there is no need to hit others in their stead.

LWFS Apr 19 2019 10:02 PM Re: Flipping Out

If you don't like a guy flipping a bat, don't pitch like poop. Let them flip. All the time. All day, every day. If you look like an asshole, then you'll look like an asshole, and people watching will think you're an asshole, and boo you. Just because you look like an asshole doesn't make you Someone Who Should Be Hurt.

Ceetar Apr 20 2019 12:09 PM Re: Flipping Out

Meanwhile they suspended Anderson a game for saying "Cleveland Indians" to the ump.

41Forever Apr 20 2019 12:39 PM Re: Flipping Out

I don't mind some emotion and a flip if the situation is appropriate for a celebration. But I don't want to see choreographed crap that happens in the NFL, like when the guys faked pooping the football after a celebration.