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Jacob Rhame, Rhys Hoskins and Baseball's Stupid Uwritten Rules

A Boy Named Seo Apr 25 2019 09:56 AM

Some great reporting by Tim Britton and Matt Gelb at the Athletic reveal there was more to the dust-up than any of us seemed to pick up on. A subscription is required to read the whole thing (I highly recommend it, though), but here's a snippet. Instead, it goes back to Tuesday's sixth inning, when J.T. Realmuto singled to center. In an eight-run game, first baseman Pete Alonso played behind Realmuto. There was nothing that prevented Realmuto from running, other than an agreement that when a team decides to not hold a runner on in a blowout, you honor it. But the Phillies thought they had one last chance to crawl back into the game, and Realmuto ran on the first pitch to Hoskins. Hoskins fouled the ball off, Realmuto retreated to first, where Alonso was now stationed to hold him on. Philadelphia did not score in the inning. It was a moment hardly worth noting. The Mets noticed, though, and in the bottom of the frame, Juan Lagares ran in a nearly identical situation — two outs, runner on first, the first baseman playing back on the first pitch. Lagares went first to third on Robinson Canó's single, and Canó was greeted at first base by a perplexed Hoskins. “What's he doing?” Hoskins said, echoing reaction from the Phillies dugout. He was confused that Lagares would run, up by eight runs. The subsequent hitter, Michael Conforto, took two pitches up and in — though neither near where Rhame would buzz Hoskins later. Hoskins appeared to say something to Conforto after the latter's walk. The article goes on to quote Hoskins, Arietta and numerous anonymous Mets and Phillies players on their interpretation of the unwritten rules and confused theories on when teams should essentially stop trying to win a game that is still being played. It's a great read. I had no idea about the Realmuto/Lagares angle of this thing. I don't recall if Gary picked up on it either.

nymr83 Apr 25 2019 10:14 AM Re: Jacob Rhame, Rhys Hoskins and Baseball's Stupid Uwritten Rules

Great article indeed. Nobody is wrong or right about when you stop trying, if ever. If a pitcher is really headhunting, that is wrong. Id say a homerun trot that is meant not to celebrate but to show someone up isnt "right" either.

A Boy Named Seo Apr 25 2019 10:18 AM Re: Jacob Rhame, Rhys Hoskins and Baseball's Stupid Uwritten Rules

I couldn't believe how slow he was running. But after two whizzing near his head the night before (intentional or not), the Hoskins revenge of a moonshot and slow trot was fine by me.

Centerfield Apr 25 2019 10:21 AM Re: Jacob Rhame, Rhys Hoskins and Baseball's Stupid Uwritten Rules

Fuck Hoskins. If he wants to be a douchebag about things let him. My idea of revenge would be to hit a HR then trot around the bases without looking like a petty dickhead. But whatever. In my book, it's never not ok to try.

A Boy Named Seo Apr 25 2019 10:25 AM Re: Jacob Rhame, Rhys Hoskins and Baseball's Stupid Uwritten Rules

If Alonso got chin music one night, then hit a dinger off the same dude the very next night and walked around the bases like Hoskins did, I think I woulda been giddy, right or wrong. Edit: but, of course, fuck Hoskins.

Edgy MD Apr 25 2019 10:53 AM Re: Jacob Rhame, Rhys Hoskins and Baseball's Stupid Uwritten Rules

How about a customer-based ethic? There are still thousands of depressed Phillies fans following this game through the radio, the television, the internet, and carrier pigeon, hoping against hope that their team can work their way back into the game. Realmuto kind of owes it to them to take second if it's given to him freely.

nymr83 Apr 25 2019 10:57 AM Re: Jacob Rhame, Rhys Hoskins and Baseball's Stupid Uwritten Rules

Fine, but then Lagares owes it to Mets fans to give them all the entertainment value of taking a base from the hapless blown-out Phillies. Also it might be 9-0 but if you lose 10-9 you'll be hearing about the runs you didn't score forever

Johnny Lunchbucket Apr 25 2019 11:03 AM Re: Jacob Rhame, Rhys Hoskins and Baseball's Stupid Uwritten Rules

yeah I missed the early signals too. But not surprising there was some, often these things go on for a while before the next thing happens. Hoskins mistake, hopefully, was thinking his peacock bullshit ended it.

A Boy Named Seo Apr 25 2019 11:04 AM Re: Jacob Rhame, Rhys Hoskins and Baseball's Stupid Uwritten Rules

Both guys should run. The Phils put a 10-spot up on us last week. Game's not over, keep trying to win.

seawolf17 Apr 25 2019 11:34 AM Re: Jacob Rhame, Rhys Hoskins and Baseball's Stupid Uwritten Rules

A Boy Named Seo wrote: Both guys should run. The Phils put a 10-spot up on us last week. Game's not over, keep trying to win. Exactly! A million times. The *whole fucking point* of baseball is that "it ain't over 'til it's over."

Ceetar Apr 25 2019 12:12 PM Re: Jacob Rhame, Rhys Hoskins and Baseball's Stupid Uwritten Rules

These guys definitely should look up the word "concede" It's definitely on the Phillies to go 'first' though, you go tell the umpire "we're done, see you tomorrow" and leave.

Centerfield Apr 25 2019 12:21 PM Re: Jacob Rhame, Rhys Hoskins and Baseball's Stupid Uwritten Rules

A Boy Named Seo wrote: Both guys should run. The Phils put a 10-spot up on us last week. Game's not over, keep trying to win. Yup. For anyone that cares: *both guys should run and both teams should be ok with that. I get that when you're down it's harder to understand, but you can take the high road when that happens or you can be a dick. The Phillies chose dick. *Hoskins was pissed about the pitch at his head. That's totally fine. In the heat of the moment, you don't know what to think and it certainly seemed like it was meant to hit him. But after sending a "message pitch" the last thing Rhame would want to do is hit him. So when ball 4 comes in high and tight, instead of being even more pissed off, he should be like "maybe this guy is just wild". I know it's hard to think that at the time, but in the post-game, plenty of time has passed for you to have that revelation. During his interview, Hoskins could have taken the high road, but chose to be a dick. *Kudos to the Phillies for not retaliating. The pitch that hit Frazier was clearly a mistake. Given the choice to become headhunting dickheads, the Phillies, for a change, took the high road. (But the night wasn't over yet) *Kudos to Hoskins for getting even the best way by hitting one out. In that situation, guys who are cooler than cool give the pitcher a look that says it all, then take their normal jog around the bases. When asked about it, they say cool things like "I let my play do all my talking." But some choose to be buffoons like Hoskins. To each his own. I don't know whether or not Rhame meant to hit Hoskins, but I do know that Hoskins absolutely meant to act like a jerk and an idiot with his foolish trot around the bases. So again, given the choice between the high road and dick...

Frayed Knot Apr 25 2019 01:03 PM Re: Jacob Rhame, Rhys Hoskins and Baseball's Stupid Uwritten Rules

The manager of a running team once said that his speedsters would stop running with a big lead just as soon as the power guys on the other side stopped trying to hit HRs. That essentially gives you license to run forever. During Tuesday's game Gary did pick up on at least the oddity of Realmuto running, then noted how Lagares doing so an inning or so later was likely a form of tit-for-tat. On Wednesday Keith mentioned a pre-game chat with Philly announcer John Kruk who told him that Conforto thought he was being buzzed as a result of all that which in turn could have planted the idea of retaliation in the pen/Rhame's head. The problem wasn't that Rhame buzzed Hoskins it's that he was head-high in doing so. I'd be pissed at that too and it's not like the second one would make me less so. I'm pretty indifferent to how long his run around the bases took.

A Boy Named Seo Apr 25 2019 01:23 PM Re: Jacob Rhame, Rhys Hoskins and Baseball's Stupid Uwritten Rules

Frayed Knot wrote: During Tuesday's game Gary did pick up on at least the oddity of Realmuto running, then noted how Lagares doing so an inning or so later was likely a form of tit-for-tat. On Wednesday Keith mentioned a pre-game chat with Philly announcer John Kruk who told him that Conforto thought he was being buzzed as a result of all that which in turn could have planted the idea of retaliation in the pen/Rhame's head. Good info, FK. I'd agree that Realmuto running, even if the Mets are giving the base to you, is a little odd just cause there's still a chance you get thrown out trailing by 8 and that would be stupid. If they Phils got hurt cause Lagares tried to run in the next inning, than they're idiots and need to grow up.

Lefty Specialist Apr 25 2019 02:20 PM Re: Jacob Rhame, Rhys Hoskins and Baseball's Stupid Uwritten Rules

I don't have a problem with Hoskins styling around the bases. He earned it by ducking two missiles at his head.

Johnny Lunchbucket Apr 25 2019 02:36 PM Re: Jacob Rhame, Rhys Hoskins and Baseball's Stupid Uwritten Rules

Lefty Specialist wrote: I don't have a problem with Hoskins styling around the bases. He earned it by ducking two missiles at his head. Nobody earns the right to exhibit poor sportsmanship. It's still poor sportsmanship.

bmfc1 Apr 25 2019 04:27 PM Re: Jacob Rhame, Rhys Hoskins and Baseball's Stupid Uwritten Rules

Rhame was suspended for two games for "intentionally" throwing near the head of Baby Rhys'. The pitcher who threw near Conforto got nothing. I assume that Rhame is going down for deGrom so the Mets won't be shorthanded unless and until he returns. If that's the case, can they not bring him up until September so it won't hurt as much?

G-Fafif Apr 25 2019 04:58 PM Re: Jacob Rhame, Rhys Hoskins and Baseball's Stupid Uwritten Rules

This episode has made me feel bad for Rhame, whose presence on the staff I don't care for, and detest Hoskins, of whom I had no opinion beyond he sure can hit. Ah, tribalism. Suspend Callaway if the message is this shouldn't be part of the game. There's no way the kid took it upon himself to "take care of business".

Fman99 Apr 26 2019 03:36 AM Re: Jacob Rhame, Rhys Hoskins and Baseball's Stupid Uwritten Rules

All I learned from this is that Rhys Hopkins is a dickhole.

Ceetar Apr 26 2019 07:05 AM Re: Jacob Rhame, Rhys Hoskins and Baseball's Stupid Uwritten Rules

This episode has made me feel bad for Rhame, whose presence on the staff I don't care for, and detest Hoskins, of whom I had no opinion beyond he sure can hit. Ah, tribalism. Suspend Callaway if the message is this shouldn't be part of the game. There's no way the kid took it upon himself to "take care of business". You don't think so? akin to the tribalism, I imagine there's a lot of impetus for a 25th guy on the roster type, or really any part of a team, to want to show loyalty to the group, the "I've got you're back, you hit one of us you hit all of us" and all that.

Edgy MD Apr 26 2019 07:23 AM Re: Jacob Rhame, Rhys Hoskins and Baseball's Stupid Uwritten Rules

Shelley Duncan Syndrome.

G-Fafif Apr 26 2019 08:31 AM Re: Jacob Rhame, Rhys Hoskins and Baseball's Stupid Uwritten Rules

I imagine there's a lot of impetus for a 25th guy on the roster type, or really any part of a team, to want to show loyalty to the group, the "I've got you're back, you hit one of us you hit all of us" and all that. The way everybody had their "ball just got away" lines down pat after Tuesday's game leads me to believe the whole thing was coordinated from the top (or the middle, if that's how you view the role of the manager). My guess is whoever took the mound in the ninth was going to be directed to back Hoskins off the plate. Stealing while down eight runs -- the nerve!

A Boy Named Seo Apr 26 2019 10:59 AM Re: Jacob Rhame, Rhys Hoskins and Baseball's Stupid Uwritten Rules

It may have come from Mickey, but I'll bet those "ball just got away" lines are ingrained in young pitchers like a Nuke LaLoosh's canned line. Can't exactly say, "Yeah I was trying to hit him and missed". I'm still not pissed at Hoskins. His trot was slow to let Rhame know that he beat him, but given the two shots across the bow, I don't think it was overly anything.

Ceetar Apr 26 2019 11:03 AM Re: Jacob Rhame, Rhys Hoskins and Baseball's Stupid Uwritten Rules

I'm not particularly pissed at Hoskins either, I am a little annoyed at the media heavily pushing this rivalry and narrative that's almost definitely going to dredge this up ad nauseam before the next series and might actually incite something.

Johnny Lunchbucket Apr 26 2019 12:22 PM Re: Jacob Rhame, Rhys Hoskins and Baseball's Stupid Uwritten Rules

I imagine there's a lot of impetus for a 25th guy on the roster type, or really any part of a team, to want to show loyalty to the group, the "I've got you're back, you hit one of us you hit all of us" and all that. The way everybody had their "ball just got away" lines down pat after Tuesday's game leads me to believe the whole thing was coordinated from the top (or the middle, if that's how you view the role of the manager). My guess is whoever took the mound in the ninth was going to be directed to back Hoskins off the plate. Stealing while down eight runs -- the nerve! Yeah, Rhame was in the bullpen when the alleged offending activity went down, I'm sure he ran in with specific instructions

Frayed Knot Apr 26 2019 01:30 PM Re: Jacob Rhame, Rhys Hoskins and Baseball's Stupid Uwritten Rules

If Rhame (or anyone) admits to throwing at someone the suspensions are just going to be longer, so the 'got away' stories are virtually required. It would be like saying 'No, your honor, I'm not at all remorseful for my crime' leading up to your sentencing.

LWFS Apr 26 2019 06:49 PM Re: Jacob Rhame, Rhys Hoskins and Baseball's Stupid Uwritten Rules

Listen, if your response to "your team did something good for itself that annoyed me" is injuring/attempting to injure an opposing player, that's the only kind of unacceptable on-field business to me. I'm tribal. I think Hopkins is a dick. I don't like his stroll around the bases, because it's meant to make us feel bad, and it makes me feel bad. Same with a SB when the other team is up 8. But is it WRONG? Oh, hell, no. If something ain't written, it ain't a rule. By definition.

Edgy MD Apr 27 2019 08:15 AM Re: Jacob Rhame, Rhys Hoskins and Baseball's Stupid Uwritten Rules

Steve Goldman writes about length about the origins of baseballs written and unwritten rules of decorum. Apparently, it all has something to do with lobsters. It's easy to forget that baseball as we experience it is also a 19th century game once played by and for people with a sense of decorum very different from ours. Most games were played by belligerent drunks for the benefit of belligerent drunks, or, failing that, for belligerent drunk gamblers. “I can't hit the ball until I hit the bottle,” the great Louisville outfielder Pete Browning said, with disarming candor. He wasn't alone. Think of every game as being a contest between nine men who were badly hungover versus another nine who were still drunk, and neither nine were all on the same team.