Master Index of Archived Threads


Who gets traded first?

Wheeler

15 votes

Syndergaard

2 votes

Vargas

4 votes

Frazier

1 votes

Smith

0 votes

Someone else

2 votes

RealityChuck Jul 11 2019 06:22 PM

Pick who's going away first.

Edgy MD Jul 11 2019 06:58 PM Re: Who gets traded first?

Who Gets Traded First? was definitely my least-favorite Who album.

kcmets Jul 11 2019 07:00 PM Re: Who gets traded first?

Took Noah; kinda hoping it's him, tiring of him and I'm sure he feels the same.

Fman99 Jul 11 2019 08:14 PM Re: Who gets traded first?

Christ, I hope it's not Dom Smith.

seawolf17 Jul 12 2019 06:28 AM Re: Who gets traded first?

I think Wheeler is most likely. They're not trading Syndergaard or Dom. No way.

Edgy MD Jul 12 2019 06:43 AM Re: Who gets traded first?

It depends on the offer, dudn't it? And they certainly aren't getting top dollar out of him by playing him in left and getting negative defensive value. They also know more than we do about the potential outcomes of Brandon Nimmo's future. I'm not advocating for his dealing, but I don't think it's in the realm of the impossible.

MFS62 Jul 12 2019 06:56 AM Re: Who gets traded first?

I think it depends on the health status of Jed Lowrie (who?). If he was healthy, Frazier would be my #1 candidate. But nobody knows, so I picked Wheeler as the first to go. I just hope we don't get back a bunch of Jacob Rhame- type middle relievers. The biggest need is a right handed hitting center fielder who can both hit and field. Later

Benjamin Grimm Jul 12 2019 07:01 AM Re: Who gets traded first?

I just wish I trusted the GM to make a wise deal.

bmfc1 Jul 12 2019 07:04 AM Re: Who gets traded first?

=seawolf17 post_id=15694 time=1562934480 user_id=91] I think Wheeler is most likely. They're not trading Syndergaard or Dom. No way.

Marc Carig agrees with you about Noah. He said in a podcast for The Athletic that the Mets will value him too highly for what other teams think of him.

Lefty Specialist Jul 12 2019 07:34 AM Re: Who gets traded first?

Wheeler. But don't expect too much back.

HahnSolo Jul 12 2019 07:37 AM Re: Who gets traded first?

I went with Vargas. In a lot of cases there's pressure to "win" the deal for the fan base. In this instance I think most of the fan base doesnt' care if they ever see Vargas in a Met uniform again, so less urgency to sell the deal as a win to the fans. Plus I think there's some residual distaste over the whole locker room thing in Wrigley.

seawolf17 Jul 12 2019 07:48 AM Re: Who gets traded first?

I went with Vargas. In a lot of cases there's pressure to "win" the deal for the fan base. In this instance I think most of the fan base doesnt' care if they ever see Vargas in a Met uniform again, so less urgency to sell the deal as a win to the fans. Plus I think there's some residual distaste over the whole locker room thing in Wrigley. I agree with the second half of that - I think he's halfway out of town already. But I don't think the front office gives a rat's ass about "winning" trades, for themselves or anyone else, except financially. The first team willing to absorb the rest of his deal will get him for a low-level relief pitcher.

HahnSolo Jul 12 2019 08:11 AM Re: Who gets traded first?

I went with Vargas. In a lot of cases there's pressure to "win" the deal for the fan base. In this instance I think most of the fan base doesnt' care if they ever see Vargas in a Met uniform again, so less urgency to sell the deal as a win to the fans. Plus I think there's some residual distaste over the whole locker room thing in Wrigley. I agree with the second half of that - I think he's halfway out of town already. But I don't think the front office gives a rat's ass about "winning" trades, for themselves or anyone else, except financially. The first team willing to absorb the rest of his deal will get him for a low-level relief pitcher. Oh, I do believe this front office cares about the visual of "losing" another deal after the pounding they've taken over the Seattle trade.

ashie62 Jul 12 2019 08:40 AM Re: Who gets traded first?

Noah to Yanks. Miguel Andujar and Jordan Montgomery back. I would really want Estevial Florial but.......

Johnny Lunchbucket Jul 12 2019 08:41 AM Re: Who gets traded first?

Yes the Mets *always* overcorrect. They're like a busboy on their first day on the job.

kcmets Jul 12 2019 09:00 AM Re: Who gets traded first?

I went with Vargas. In a lot of cases there's pressure to "win" the deal for the fan base. In this instance I think most of the fan base doesnt' care if they ever see Vargas in a Met uniform again, so less urgency to sell the deal as a win to the fans. Plus I think there's some residual distaste over the whole locker room thing in Wrigley. You're probably right on all points. I may switch my vote after lunch.

duan Jul 12 2019 09:01 AM Re: Who gets traded first?

I voted Wheeler - but I now think HahnSolo is making a very good point.

kcmets Jul 12 2019 10:16 AM Re: Who gets traded first?

Vote changing not an option but I switch to Camp Vargie...

metirish Jul 12 2019 10:47 AM Re: Who gets traded first?

Wheeler , I would not be unhappy of Noah was traded

ashie62 Jul 13 2019 07:01 AM Re: Who gets traded first?

Noah has been so mediocre for several years now so I don't know if we would get much for him

RealityChuck Jul 18 2019 11:14 AM Re: Who gets traded first?

And no one had Wilmer Font...

Benjamin Grimm Jul 24 2019 06:29 PM Re: Who gets traded first?

Anthony DiComo wrote: The Mets indeed appear willing to listen on Edwin Diaz, as @JeffPassan noted, but their asking price is said to be so sky-high that it's basically a non-starter. It would be shocking to see Diaz move before the July 31 deadline.

Frayed Knot Jul 24 2019 09:19 PM Re: Who gets traded first?

Seeing as how the whole purpose of trading for a 25 y/o with four years of control was for the long term, I suspect this idea of trading Diaz is just rumor and is based on the idea that bullpen help is a hot commodity. So, sure, if you can get a king's ransom for him then go ahead, but I think they are more interested in seeing what he might bring back rather than wanting to cut and run from last winter's deal.

dgwphotography Jul 25 2019 05:10 AM Re: Who gets traded first?

=kcmets post_id=15686 time=1562893257 user_id=53] Took Noah; kinda hoping it's him, tiring of him and I'm sure he feels the same.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who feels this way.

seawolf17 Jul 25 2019 08:25 AM Re: Who gets traded first?

=dgwphotography post_id=16689 time=1564053050 user_id=78] =kcmets post_id=15686 time=1562893257 user_id=53] Took Noah; kinda hoping it's him, tiring of him and I'm sure he feels the same.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who feels this way.


Yeah, I'm tired of all that... really good pitching and fan-friendliness. FUCK THAT GUY.



Since 2015, among all pitchers who have thrown at least 600 innings, dude is *eleventh* in ERA. Sign the guy to a deGrom deal.

kcmets Jul 25 2019 08:39 AM Re: Who gets traded first?

=seawolf17 post_id=16703 time=1564064756 user_id=91]Sign the guy to a deGrom deal.

They can't, all the money in the cookie jar goes to Cano.

whippoorwill Jul 25 2019 08:40 AM Re: Who gets traded first?

I still like Noah too, but I'm sure he's wishing he could be more in control of the destiny of the games he starts. *coffcoffrelievers* Yeah I know I'm a broken record

seawolf17 Jul 25 2019 08:45 AM Re: Who gets traded first?

=kcmets post_id=16704 time=1564065540 user_id=53] =seawolf17 post_id=16703 time=1564064756 user_id=91]Sign the guy to a deGrom deal.

They can't, all the money in the cookie jar goes to Cano.


ARGH

Lefty Specialist Jul 25 2019 09:00 AM Re: Who gets traded first?

=seawolf17 post_id=16707 time=1564065938 user_id=91] =kcmets post_id=16704 time=1564065540 user_id=53] =seawolf17 post_id=16703 time=1564064756 user_id=91]Sign the guy to a deGrom deal.

They can't, all the money in the cookie jar goes to Cano.


ARGH


Sue Cespedes and Lowrie for breach of contract. There's your money.

kcmets Jul 25 2019 09:06 AM Re: Who gets traded first?

Lowrie? Who's dat? haha

whippoorwill Jul 25 2019 10:16 AM Re: Who gets traded first?

There's a lowrie?

kcmets Jul 25 2019 10:27 AM Re: Who gets traded first?

Yup! © Makes $10 million this year and next.

dgwphotography Jul 25 2019 11:41 AM Re: Who gets traded first?

=seawolf17 post_id=16703 time=1564064756 user_id=91] =dgwphotography post_id=16689 time=1564053050 user_id=78] =kcmets post_id=15686 time=1562893257 user_id=53] Took Noah; kinda hoping it's him, tiring of him and I'm sure he feels the same.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who feels this way.


Yeah, I'm tired of all that... really good pitching and fan-friendliness. FUCK THAT GUY.



Since 2015, among all pitchers who have thrown at least 600 innings, dude is *eleventh* in ERA. Sign the guy to a deGrom deal.


I get it, I do. It's something I can't quantify, just a gut feeling I have about him that rubs me the wrong way.

Johnny Lunchbucket Jul 25 2019 03:28 PM Re: Who gets traded first?

Buster Olney writes that teams are getting the impression Mets will trade Syndy. [TWEET]https://twitter.com/Buster_ESPN/status/1154490876950827008[/TWEET] If I wasn't absolutely convinced they'd somehow screw this up I'd say "go for it." I like Syndy as much as the next guy, maybe more, but a real team in the same situation would also be considering the same thing, and would probably do it. Meanwhile, Ken sez: [TWEET]https://twitter.com/Ken_Rosenthal/status/1154475428876341248[/TWEET] I don't hate this idea one bit, except for the near certainty they'll screw it up

Ceetar Jul 25 2019 04:36 PM Re: Who gets traded first?

keep and extend both you can't replace them.

Edgy MD Jul 25 2019 04:41 PM Re: Who gets traded first?

Well, it's a challenge, but sure you can.

Ceetar Jul 25 2019 05:05 PM Re: Who gets traded first?

It'd be almost impossible to find someone as good.

seawolf17 Jul 25 2019 06:49 PM Re: Who gets traded first?

Oh, you can replace them easily. Plenty of guys who would be happy to pitch for the major league minimum.

Edgy MD Jul 25 2019 07:28 PM Re: Who gets traded first?

It'd be almost impossible to find someone as good. I hate trades, but the guy himself replaced R.A. Dickey after a Cy Young season (eventually, anyhow). Smart management finds good players, sometimes in the packages you traded players for. BillJamesOnline.com currently has Syndergaard as the 43rd-ranked starting pitcher, behind such luminaries as Jake Odorizzi, Wade Miley, and Shane Bieber. That's hardly the last word, but I'm not sure how one gets from 43rd-best to "almost impossible to find someone as good."

Johnny Lunchbucket Jul 25 2019 09:14 PM Re: Who gets traded first?

Interesting. Zack Wheels is 54

41Forever Jul 26 2019 06:24 AM Re: Who gets traded first?

Olney on ESPN radio today talking about the Mets, saying Syndergaard is likely to get traded in part because he will start to get expensive. Said the same thing about Diaz. About Brodie, he said, "He's a fantastic agent, has a great personality, everybody likes him. I thought he was a terrible hire at the time, and I've seen nothing to change my opinion." (If those aren't the exact words, they're pretty close.) Said there is no chance Syndergaard goes to MFY, saying Houston or San Diego more likely, and Diaz a good fit to LA. Take all with the needed grains of salt, of course.

Ceetar Jul 26 2019 07:15 AM Re: Who gets traded first?

Olney's a hack. I don't think Bill James online is the #1 source for rankings though, especially lately. Sure, you can make smart moves or sign good players on their way up that you see potential in, but those are still probably longer shots than just keeping Syndergaard and Wheeler. fWAR has Syndergaard 20th and Wheeler 23rd. xFIP has Wheeler 24th and Thor 30th. similar for SIERA. Sure, there are some guys that have done better in smaller samples, maybe that pushes them to 40ish. but still, There are a lot of pitchers. That basically puts them on the bubble for Ace level. It's clearly front line starter. You're just not replacing that easily, cheaply, or with high probability. They're 32 and 39th of 191 pitchers with at least 70 IP over the last two years. 17 and 19 if you raise the floor to 'qualified' meaning they mostly stayed on the mound and maintained that success. That's where the real crux is. Finding a guy that's been doing it reliability. You can find guys that had really great second halves, or really thrived in their first 120 IP in the majors or whatever. But Wheeler and Syndergaard have extended that for longer than many. The error bars are smaller. I mean, maybe the error bars aren't smaller than the combo of like Max Fried (not actually available) and the package you can get by trading Syndergaard, but it'd have to be a really special package. And then you want to lose two of these guys? That's really tough.

whippoorwill Jul 26 2019 07:20 AM Re: Who gets traded first?

Edgy MD wrote: It'd be almost impossible to find someone as good. I hate trades, but the guy himself replaced R.A. Dickey after a Cy Young season (eventually, anyhow). Smart management finds good players, sometimes in the packages you traded players for. BillJamesOnline.com currently has Syndergaard as the 43rd-ranked starting pitcher, behind such luminaries as Jake Odorizzi, Wade Miley, and Shane Bieber. That's hardly the last word, but I'm not sure how one gets from 43rd-best to "almost impossible to find someone as good." Sounds fishy to me

Lefty Specialist Jul 26 2019 09:23 AM Re: Who gets traded first?

Sorry, if I'm trading Syndergaard, I want an insanely good package in return. If no one offers insanely good, keep him.

Edgy MD Jul 26 2019 09:42 AM Re: Who gets traded first?

The methodology isn't to rate who has been best in the first half of this year, but to use a broader deeper data set, analyzing current trends against the historical record, modeled after tennis and golf ratings, where an injury won't make you disappear suddenly from rankings, but rather gradually fade. The order even changes in the offseason.

kcmets Jul 26 2019 09:43 AM Re: Who gets traded first?

2020 potential rookie-of-the-year CF would be a good start in trade talks for Noah.

batmagadanleadoff Jul 26 2019 09:50 AM Re: Who gets traded first? Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Jul 26 2019 09:56 AM

Edgy MD wrote: The methodology isn't to rate who has been best in the first half of this year, but to use a broader deeper data set, analyzing current trends against the historical record, modeled after tennis and golf ratings, where an injury won't make you disappear suddenly from rankings, but rather gradually fade. The order even changes in the offseason. Syndergaard's trade value is predominantly about his upside, his potential, his untapped ceiling, which Bill James's rankings ignores entirely. In Syndergaard's case, is the past merely prologue? Or is the past the future as well? TBD.

A Boy Named Seo Jul 26 2019 09:55 AM Re: Who gets traded first?

Houston scares me because they're smarter than the Mets. Gerrit Cole's K/9 went from 8.7 in Pittsburgh to 12.4 his first season in Houston and is at 13.5 this year. They did the same shit with Verlander. He was already 34 and striking dudes out, but his K/9 jumped by 2 anyway. They way Seattle played Brodie, how can I not be afraid they trade us a few lemons and Noah's slider starts exploding again?

batmagadanleadoff Jul 26 2019 09:57 AM Re: Who gets traded first?

A Boy Named Seo wrote: Houston scares me because they're smarter than the Mets. Who isn't? The Mets are one of the dumbest organizations in all of baseball. And on top of that, they're cheap and broke.

Methead Jul 26 2019 10:20 AM Re: Who gets traded first?

Dumb, cheap, and broke is no way to go through life.

smg58 Jul 26 2019 10:32 AM Re: Who gets traded first?

Other than McNeil, Alonso, and DeGrom, there is nobody untouchable. Did you notice we're a sub-.500 team? I would happily settle for sanely good for anybody else. But I also wouldn't feel forced to deal anybody who isn't a free agent.

seawolf17 Jul 26 2019 10:39 AM Re: Who gets traded first?

A Boy Named Seo wrote: Houston scares me because they're smarter than the Mets. Who isn't? The Mets are one of the dumbest organizations in all of baseball. And on top of that, they're cheap and broke. Yep and yep.

kcmets Jul 26 2019 10:41 AM Re: Who gets traded first?

=Methead post_id=16797 time=1564158044 user_id=61]Dumb, cheap, and broke is no way to go through life.

I'm batting 1.000, though. There's that...

Edgy MD Jul 26 2019 10:51 AM Re: Who gets traded first?

I'm the only one who picked Frazier still. He's already been dealt at the deadline once.

batmagadanleadoff Jul 26 2019 11:18 AM Re: Who gets traded first?

=smg58 post_id=16798 time=1564158760 user_id=62] Other than McNeil, Alonso, and DeGrom, there is nobody untouchable.

Would you trade any of those three for Mike Trout? If your answer is yes, then they're not all untouchable.

Johnny Lunchbucket Jul 26 2019 11:28 AM Re: Who gets traded first?

I confess I didn't vote in this poll because the order of guys who get traded isn't all that important and much depends on stuff that can't be predicted inasmuch as it takes 2 to make a deal. I'm just using this as an all-purpose speculation thread

Ceetar Jul 26 2019 11:45 AM Re: Who gets traded first?

A Boy Named Seo wrote: Houston scares me because they're smarter than the Mets. Who isn't? The Mets are one of the dumbest organizations in all of baseball. And on top of that, they're cheap and broke. see?

Ceetar Jul 26 2019 11:48 AM Re: Who gets traded first?

Anyway, Bill James has long ceased to be an authority on baseball analysis. I don't know what goes into his rankings, but there are plenty of other ones out there. Regardless, my point stands. Wheeler and Syndergaard are good, and even if there as many as 40 pitchers better than them, that's not a large pool to pull from, or a cheap one, in order to replace the talent you're losing.

Ceetar Jul 26 2019 12:02 PM Re: Who gets traded first?

On the other hand, I just stumbled upon (Via one of the spammy, but worthless Mets blogs) some site that's made up their own player projection system and infused it into some weird trade valuation thing. It's almost complete nonsense/opinion, so maybe Bill James isn't completely worthless.

Edgy MD Jul 26 2019 12:03 PM Re: Who gets traded first?

Wheeler and Syndergaard are good... That's your point? Has anybody disputed this?

Ceetar Jul 26 2019 12:06 PM Re: Who gets traded first?

Edgy MD wrote: Wheeler and Syndergaard are good... That's your point? Has anybody disputed this? yes, constantly.

Edgy MD Jul 26 2019 12:25 PM Re: Who gets traded first?

Come on.

41Forever Jul 26 2019 12:30 PM Re: Who gets traded first?

I think it's accepted they are good, and that's the reason they are considering trading them. Good players would bring better prospects, and will cost more down the line. (How much the cost is a factor to BVW is debatable.) Otherwise we'd be looking to deal Familia again....

Edgy MD Jul 26 2019 12:31 PM Re: Who gets traded first?

Edgy MD wrote: The methodology isn't to rate who has been best in the first half of this year, but to use a broader deeper data set, analyzing current trends against the historical record, modeled after tennis and golf ratings, where an injury won't make you disappear suddenly from rankings, but rather gradually fade. The order even changes in the offseason. Syndergaard's trade value is predominantly about his upside, his potential, his untapped ceiling, which Bill James's rankings ignores entirely. In Syndergaard's case, is the past merely prologue? Or is the past the future as well? TBD. Well, we're discussing his alleged irreplaceability, which to me refers to his current value. The ceiling he still has or may have is certainly up for a related and worthwhile debate, but no, you're correct, the rankings do not speak to that.

kcmets Jul 26 2019 07:18 PM Re: Who gets traded first?

Riveting stuff. Sad really, the state of 'reporting.' [BLOCKQUOTE]The Mets are 'definitely' trading Syndergaard, according to Joel Sherman of the New York Post. Sherman notes that while an executive who has spoken to the Mets said, "they are defintely trading Syndergaard," another mentioned that no deal was imminent.[/BLOCKQUOTE]

Edgy MD Jul 26 2019 08:25 PM Re: Who gets traded first?

Joel Sherman is never wrong sometimes.

kcmets Jul 26 2019 08:36 PM Re: Who gets traded first?

I see what you did there.

smg58 Jul 27 2019 09:23 AM Re: Who gets traded first?

=batmagadanleadoff post_id=16802 time=1564161513 user_id=68] =smg58 post_id=16798 time=1564158760 user_id=62] Other than McNeil, Alonso, and DeGrom, there is nobody untouchable.

Would you trade any of those three for Mike Trout? If your answer is yes, then they're not all untouchable.


That's fair, although I'm assuming the Angels aren't dangling Trout in front of us.

kcmets Jul 27 2019 10:26 AM Re: Who gets traded first?

=41Forever post_id=16815 time=1564165859 user_id=69](How much the cost is a factor to BVW is debatable.)

No, it's most certainly not debatable.

Edgy MD Jul 27 2019 10:43 AM Re: Who gets traded first?

The idea that Mike Trout will be traded now or in the future is far from unfathomable.