Master Index of Archived Threads


Excuses 2020

Centerfield Sep 16 2019 01:46 PM

Barring a miracle, the Mets will likely fall short again in 2019. They are 15 games back of the Braves, and never really contended for the division. The have the 15th best offense in MLB, the 7th best starting staff, and the 27th best bullpen. They are 7th in the NL in terms of run differential. But because they will fall just a handful of games short of the second wild card, my guess is we get excuses instead of effort this offseason. My predictions: "We've already added offense. When Cespedes comes back, we expect him to return to MVP form." "Part of the motivation for adding Stroman at the deadline was with the idea that Zack might leave this winter. So effectively, we've already replaced Zack Wheeler..." "Something something Diaz, something something flaw in his delivery, bla blah mechanical issue, bla blah bounce back to form in 2020." "If you look at Cano's numbers in the second half..." "Familia was bothered by the Bennet Lesion all season. With a full winter of rest, he'll be completely healthy by spring training."

Lefty Specialist Sep 16 2019 01:56 PM Re: Excuses 2020

"Well, we're expecting a big year from Corey Oswalt."

nymr83 Sep 16 2019 03:54 PM Re: Excuses 2020

"Darnold got mono from Familia who pitched through it all season, the bullpen will be fine"

kcmets Sep 16 2019 04:04 PM Re: Excuses 2020

If we're predicting, I say Mickey's on a 13-game deathwatch interview and will be shown the door shortly after the season concludes barring some crazy-ass miracle. There will be no 'Excuses 2020', or 20/20 for that matter. We shall see.

Centerfield Sep 16 2019 04:27 PM Re: Excuses 2020

For the record, mine above aren't supposed to be jokes. These are things I can legitimately hear Brodie saying in December.

kcmets Sep 16 2019 04:33 PM Re: Excuses 2020

Didn't think you were joking, just think Skip is history barring the needed miracle.

Lefty Specialist Sep 16 2019 05:11 PM Re: Excuses 2020

=kcmets post_id=22074 time=1568673210 user_id=53] Didn't think you were joking, just think Skip is history barring the needed miracle.

[s]Let the Joe Girardi Era begin![/s]

Gwreck Sep 16 2019 06:04 PM Re: Excuses 2020

They missed a big opportunity not signing Manny Machado this offseason. They can correct it (somewhat) by signing Anthony Rendon. Act like the big market team you are. They also need to resign Wheeler. Bench: I'd pick up Lagares' option. You've got him, Smith, JD Davis/Cano (platoon with McNeil at 2nd/Left)?, Lowrie, and a backup catcher as the bench. Not a bad start. Find a couple more pieces for depth. If Cespedes ever plays a game for the Mets again, great. I'll believe it when I see it. Bullpen: I'll admit I have fewer ideas here. But relievers do seem to be plentiful and maybe we can do a better job of identifying good ones. Add in a new manager (and I don't hate the idea of Girardi) and that to me is a playoff caliber, befitting-of-the-NY-market team.

Lefty Specialist Sep 17 2019 06:14 AM Re: Excuses 2020

While I like Rendon a lot, McNeil has to play every day somewhere. The only place that works is at 3rd base. Cano's not going anywhere, and with Nimmo, Davis, Conforto and possibly Cespedes in the outfield, there's no place for Squirrel out there.

seawolf17 Sep 17 2019 06:51 AM Re: Excuses 2020

Lagares is a drain on the offense. It's time. And I agree that Rendon is the catch, but I also agree there's no place to play him because of Cano.

Ceetar Sep 17 2019 09:30 AM Re: Excuses 2020

Because the Mets fell short, I expect there will be a lot of dismissal of 'effort' and the multitude of great parts of this team for excuses about why they didn't make it. A lot of 20-20 hindsight stuff, a lot of narrative beating.

batmagadanleadoff Sep 17 2019 11:06 AM Re: Excuses 2020

Lefty Specialist wrote: While I like Rendon a lot, McNeil has to play every day somewhere. The only place that works is at 3rd base. Cano's not going anywhere, and with Nimmo, Davis, Conforto and possibly Cespedes in the outfield, there's no place for Squirrel out there. You left out Dom Smith.

seawolf17 Sep 17 2019 11:55 AM Re: Excuses 2020

I think you almost have to trade Dom this offseason. I just don't see where he fits. And it's too bad, because I think he's going to be a really good player.

Lefty Specialist Sep 17 2019 12:08 PM Re: Excuses 2020

=seawolf17 post_id=22147 time=1568742904 user_id=91] I think you almost have to trade Dom this offseason. I just don't see where he fits. And it's too bad, because I think he's going to be a really good player.

Yes, I think they won't get the value for him that they should. But Alonso blew right past him and won't be dislodged any time soon.

seawolf17 Sep 17 2019 12:30 PM Re: Excuses 2020

=Centerfield post_id=22065 time=1568663206 user_id=65]But because they will fall just a handful of games short of the second wild card, my guess is we get excuses instead of effort this offseason.

I think you're right, and I think those five excuses are all spot-on. I think Cespedes is probably the biggest lie they tell themselves. What a disaster that has turned out to be.



Keep in mind (re: Rendon) that we have Jed Lowrie taking up infield roster space next season too.

batmagadanleadoff Sep 17 2019 01:44 PM Re: Excuses 2020

They should spend more money. They play in a tough division and yet their real payroll - the payroll that doesn't account for insurance covered payments to Wright and Cespedes -- is league average -- even though they play in New York City. This isn't rocket science. The Wilpons will half measure us to death next year, too, because it's what they've done practically every season. Jesus Christ. Too fucking cheap to get a third baseman befitting of a major market team so instead, they pay through the teeth for a second baseman whose inevitable decline is minutes away and move everybody else around the field like Alice in Wonderland chess pieces in the baseball equivalent of shifting your left tackle to the quarterback position.

batmagadanleadoff Sep 17 2019 01:49 PM Re: Excuses 2020

=batmagadanleadoff post_id=22155 time=1568749493 user_id=68] They should spend more money. They play in a tough division and yet their real payroll - the payroll that doesn't account for insurance covered payments to Wright and Cespedes -- is league average -- even though they play in New York City. This isn't rocket science. The Wilpons will half measure us to death next year, too, because it's what they've done practically every season. Jesus Christ. Too fucking cheap to get a third baseman befitting of a major market team so instead, they pay through the teeth for a second baseman whose inevitable decline is minutes away and move everybody else around the field like Alice in Wonderland chess pieces in the baseball equivalent of shifting your left tackle to the quarterback position.

Lefty Specialist Sep 17 2019 02:02 PM Re: Excuses 2020

Oof. I completely forgot about Lowrie. Boy, this team is poorly constructed.

Vic Sage Sep 17 2019 02:03 PM Re: Excuses 2020

under no circumstances should they pick up Lagares' option. Spending $9.5m on a backup outfielder with a lifetime OPS under .660 would be crazy. And they're going to play McNeil at 3b, as long as they're still stuck with Cano. So the IF will be McNeil/Rosario/Cano/Alonzo/Ramos and the OF will be Davis-D.Smith / Nimmo / Conforto, with Lowrie, Familia and Cespedes also eating up over $50m in payroll. If they can get an all-star bat in the OF, then okay, you put Davis on the bench, trade D.Smith and put Cespedes out to pasture. But whatever money they're going to spend, it will mostly be needed to be on pitching, but they are likely NOT going to re-sign Wheeler, and they're probably going to trade Syndegaard, leaving them with only DeGrom, Matz and Stroman in the rotation, and Lugo, Wilson, Familia, Diaz and Gsellman in the pen (along with our AAA riffraff).

seawolf17 Sep 17 2019 02:11 PM Re: Excuses 2020

Lefty Specialist wrote: Oof. I completely forgot about Lowrie. Boy, this team is poorly constructed. Right? Your 2020 Mets already under contract, figuring on everyone being healthy: IF: Alonso/Cano/Rosario/McNeil (Davis? Lowrie? Dom?) OF: Conforto/Nimmo/Cespedes (Unless Ces is still hurt, in which case I guess McNeil is back out there and Davis/Lowrie are at third.) That's not to say one of those guys won't be moved somehow. But if you move Alonso/McNeil/Conforto, you risk a fucking riot. If you trade Nimmo, you're a moron. Ces and Cano aren't going anywhere, and Lowrie has no trade value until he proves he's healthy. Whereas Rosario has value, then you have no shortstop. And Dom's coming off an injury too. This team. (Sigh.)

seawolf17 Sep 17 2019 02:12 PM Re: Excuses 2020

Vic Sage wrote: they're probably going to trade Syndegaard, leaving them with only DeGrom, Matz and Stroman in the rotation, and Lugo, Wilson, Familia, Diaz and Gsellman in the pen (along with our AAA riffraff). I guess if/when they do trade Syndergaard, ostensibly it's for some sort of of MLB-functioning player who slides into the rotation, hopefully.

Vic Sage Sep 17 2019 02:14 PM Re: Excuses 2020

do you trust BVW to make that deal?

Benjamin Grimm Sep 17 2019 02:19 PM Re: Excuses 2020

They might QO Wheeler to get one more year out of him.

Ceetar Sep 17 2019 02:49 PM Re: Excuses 2020

Benjamin Grimm wrote: They might QO Wheeler to get one more year out of him. They're going to QO him, and get the second rounder or whatever if/when he signs elsewhere.

41Forever Sep 17 2019 03:30 PM Re: Excuses 2020

What do you do with Cespedes? Do you look at him in the spring and see if he has anything left? Do you work out a buyout of his contact? Do you go the Mo Vaughn route and carry him on the roster knowing there is no way he can play and collect the insurance?

Ceetar Sep 17 2019 08:51 PM Re: Excuses 2020

why wouldn't Cespedes have anything left or be able to play?

kcmets Sep 17 2019 09:06 PM Re: Excuses 2020

Lol, double foot surgery then steps in a 'gopher hole' and makes things worse - and who knows how old he really is. What else could go wrong? Probably will throw out a few vertebrae playing golf next spring.

Gwreck Sep 17 2019 10:59 PM Re: Excuses 2020

They shouldn't sign Rendon because of playing time concerns for McNeil??? Nope. McNeil can play 4 positions (and I bet he could play 1B too. Maybe even short also). He'll be an everyday player without a problem. His flexibility is an asset. If there's one thing that bring a Mets fan has taught me, it's that the team always has injuries somewhere. Do I think there's a snowball's chance in hell that Cano plays 130 games next year? Nope. 120? Doubt it. 100? Wouldn't bet on it. Conforto and Nimmo have had their injuries woes too. Not to mention Lowrie. You sign Rendon because he's the best talent available and you need offense. If you have too many healthy players, great. Of course I don't think they WILL do it. As for trading Syndergaard? That's an awful idea. What would you plausibly in return that would improve the team?

nymr83 Sep 18 2019 12:17 AM Re: Excuses 2020

=Gwreck post_id=22201 time=1568782798 user_id=56] They shouldn't sign Rendon because of playing time concerns for McNeil??? Nope. McNeil can play 4 positions (and I bet he could play 1B too. Maybe even short also). He'll be an everyday player without a problem. His flexibility is an asset. If there's one thing that bring a Mets fan has taught me, it's that the team always has injuries somewhere. Do I think there's a snowball's chance in hell that Cano plays 130 games next year? Nope. 120? Doubt it. 100? Wouldn't bet on it. Conforto and Nimmo have had their injuries woes too. Not to mention Lowrie. You sign Rendon because he's the best talent available and you need offense. If you have too many healthy players, great. Of course I don't think they WILL do it. As for trading Syndergaard? That's an awful idea. What would you plausibly in return that would improve the team?

If anything, i would say a smartly constructed 2020 Mets roster tries to fill every position and forgets McNeil. He can move around and start everywhere until the inevitable injury to someone

Lefty Specialist Sep 18 2019 11:44 AM Re: Excuses 2020

If they could find a way to dump Cano and Lowrie, I sign Rendon in a heartbeat. But you have too many people at third already. Too many people in left already. No real backup SS and no real centerfielder. I know Nimmo can play it, but he's a better corner guy. It's just a really unbalanced team. And of course the bullpen is a dumpster fire.

nymr83 Sep 18 2019 12:35 PM Re: Excuses 2020

dumping Cano is the bigger deal. Lowrie makes a perfect backup utility infielder

seawolf17 Sep 18 2019 01:10 PM Re: Excuses 2020

I do think Cano will be better next season. I'm not ready to give up on him juuuust yet.

Centerfield Sep 30 2019 10:16 AM Re: Excuses 2020

"Part of the motivation for adding Stroman at the deadline was with the idea that Zack might leave this winter. So effectively, we've already replaced Zack Wheeler..." You winner is Andy Martino. Literally the first day of the off-season. But one area that won't require much work is their starting rotation, which is likely to look like this next year: Jacob deGrom, Noah Syndergaard, Marcus Stroman, Steven Matz and a fifth starter yet to be acquired. The July acquisition of Stroman was made with the intention of replacing either Wheeler or Syndergaard in 2020. Full article. https://www.sny.tv/mets/news/mets-2020-starting-rotation-already-coming-into-focus/310970356

Gwreck Sep 30 2019 12:33 PM Re: Excuses 2020

Hey, they want to replace Wheeler with Gerrit Cole, that's fine by me. In all seriousness, I could accept a circumstance in which Wheeler is re-signed and Syndergaard is traded for a useful piece (say, if the Red Sox want to trade Mookie Betts). But it would be real dumb to break up this rotation otherwise.

Vic Sage Sep 30 2019 01:40 PM Re: Excuses 2020

In all seriousness... see, that's the problem. Why shouldn't it be a serious notion that the Mets sign Cole? I mean i know why its not, but $$ is not an acceptable answer for a NYC franchise with a mid-market budget.

MFS62 Oct 01 2019 05:50 AM Re: Excuses 2020

I cringe while I type this, but I fear the #1 excuse for failure in 2020 will be "We still have Mickey Callaway". Later

Ceetar Oct 01 2019 07:35 AM Re: Excuses 2020

Vic Sage wrote: In all seriousness... see, that's the problem. Why shouldn't it be a serious notion that the Mets sign Cole? I mean i know why its not, but $$ is not an acceptable answer for a NYC franchise with a mid-market budget. Well, that speaks to Regan (or presumably, whoever we replace him with?) Like, do you believe that whatever the Astros taught Cole is transferable? Or is there something to his routine, his daily coaching, etc. Will he be good for a few months and then start to degrade as Mets (or whoever) coaches don't know how to realign the fluctuations of the season with whatever it was that was making him awesome?

smg58 Oct 01 2019 08:21 AM Re: Excuses 2020

Stroman replaced Jason Vargas. We still have one more slot to fill. Wheeler is the kind of player who should take the QO if he's offered it. If I were in on Cole (which I would be), I wouldn't risk spending $19M where I don't want to spend it (and maintain a status quo that isn't good enough).

Gwreck Oct 01 2019 10:53 AM Re: Excuses 2020

Vic Sage wrote: In all seriousness... see, that's the problem. Why shouldn't it be a serious notion that the Mets sign Cole? I mean i know why its not, but $$ is not an acceptable answer for a NYC franchise with a mid-market budget. For the record, I think the Mets should sign Cole, re-sign Wheeler, sign Rendon, and trade Syndergaard to the Red Sox for Mookie Betts (and if they have to include Smith or Davis too, fine).

41Forever Oct 01 2019 10:57 AM Re: Excuses 2020

Tracky was saying JD Davis might be one of their better trading chips, especially to an AL team. He really doesn't have a position here unless Conforto is moved — which he also thought was a possibility.

Centerfield Oct 01 2019 11:19 AM Re: Excuses 2020

Vic Sage wrote: In all seriousness... see, that's the problem. Why shouldn't it be a serious notion that the Mets sign Cole? I mean i know why its not, but $$ is not an acceptable answer for a NYC franchise with a mid-market budget. For the record, I think the Mets should sign Cole, re-sign Wheeler, sign Rendon, and trade Syndergaard to the Red Sox for Mookie Betts (and if they have to include Smith or Davis too, fine). Now that would be an off-season.

HahnSolo Oct 01 2019 11:59 AM Re: Excuses 2020

=41Forever post_id=23425 time=1569949073 user_id=69] Tracky was saying JD Davis might be one of their better trading chips, especially to an AL team. He really doesn't have a position here unless Conforto is moved — which he also thought was a possibility.

I don't think Martino is as clued in as SNY wants us to believe.



I don't disagree that he could be a trading chip, but unless we have a reason to believe Cespedes is going to be back, isn't he your starting left fielder?

Johnny Lunchbucket Oct 01 2019 12:01 PM Re: Excuses 2020

Vic Sage wrote: In all seriousness... see, that's the problem. Why shouldn't it be a serious notion that the Mets sign Cole? I mean i know why its not, but $$ is not an acceptable answer for a NYC franchise with a mid-market budget. For the record, I think the Mets should sign Cole, re-sign Wheeler, sign Rendon, and trade Syndergaard to the Red Sox for Mookie Betts (and if they have to include Smith or Davis too, fine). Now that would be an off-season. I'd be on board with that

Ceetar Oct 01 2019 12:17 PM Re: Excuses 2020

=HahnSolo post_id=23441 time=1569952775 user_id=63] =41Forever post_id=23425 time=1569949073 user_id=69] Tracky was saying JD Davis might be one of their better trading chips, especially to an AL team. He really doesn't have a position here unless Conforto is moved — which he also thought was a possibility.

I don't think Martino is as clued in as SNY wants us to believe.



I don't disagree that he could be a trading chip, but unless we have a reason to believe Cespedes is going to be back, isn't he your starting left fielder?


Why wouldn't Cespedes be back? I know he's finished the season on the disabled list and anything can happen, but are we expecting complications from a ankle fracture?

Vic Sage Oct 02 2019 01:43 PM Re: Excuses 2020

Vic Sage wrote: In all seriousness... see, that's the problem. Why shouldn't it be a serious notion that the Mets sign Cole? I mean i know why its not, but $$ is not an acceptable answer for a NYC franchise with a mid-market budget. For the record, I think the Mets should sign Cole, re-sign Wheeler, sign Rendon, and trade Syndergaard to the Red Sox for Mookie Betts (and if they have to include Smith or Davis too, fine). yeah, fine. but seriously... The Mets "core" are all young and under team control. The only big contracts that will still be on the books after next season are Cano and Degrom. There is absolutely no budgetary reason they couldn't replace Wheeler with Cole. But we react to that reality by saying "not only Cole, but we should keep Wheeler, and get Rendon and Betts too!" (a trio which would bust even a Yankee budget) as if a contract for Cole is similarly preposterous.

Gwreck Oct 02 2019 02:28 PM Re: Excuses 2020

That point was made because these threads inevitably become a mix of discussing what the Mets should do, and considering what the Mets are likely to do. I suspect we don't disagree on what they should do.

Vic Sage Oct 02 2019 02:44 PM Re: Excuses 2020

i suspect we don't disagree on what they are likely to do, as well.

Centerfield Dec 10 2019 08:04 AM Re: Excuses 2020

Here's one I wasn't expecting: 86 wins is plenty enough! The actual quote: "We have a lot of our quote-unquote needs already filled." https://www.newsday.com/sports/baseball/mets/zack-wheeler-winter-meetings-steve-cohen-1.39393808

41Forever Dec 10 2019 11:08 AM Re: Excuses 2020

Here's one I wasn't expecting: 86 wins is plenty enough! The actual quote: "We have a lot of our quote-unquote needs already filled." https://www.newsday.com/sports/baseball/mets/zack-wheeler-winter-meetings-steve-cohen-1.39393808 I wouldn't put much stock in quotes like this during this time of year. He's smart enough to not downgrade his players or team as a whole. He knows there are holes he has to fill. One of the things Tracky has been saying a lot in his podcast is that this group of Mets execs plays things close to the vest.

Centerfield Dec 10 2019 12:33 PM Re: Excuses 2020

For me, Brodie has never demonstrated he's "smart enough" for anything. In fact, most of what I've seen from him are terrible decisions. But how smart he may or may not be is not the subject here. His words of caution, like his bravado last year, are indicative of the Wilpon mindset. The mindset can change. So can circumstances, like an infusion of money from Cohen. But what we are seeing here is not encouraging.

Lefty Specialist Dec 10 2019 02:32 PM Re: Excuses 2020

Seems like they're content to coast through these meetings hoping to not be noticed.

41Forever Dec 10 2019 03:16 PM Re: Excuses 2020

Lefty Specialist wrote: Seems like they're content to coast through these meetings hoping to not be noticed. I think he learned from last year's "Come and get us" remark and is trying to be a little less brash.

MFS62 Dec 10 2019 07:10 PM Re: Excuses 2020

Lefty Specialist wrote: Seems like they're content to coast through these meetings hoping to not be noticed. Hey Brodie! You inert piece of useless doggie doo-doo. We notice. Strongly worded message to follow. Later

bmfc1 Dec 10 2019 07:44 PM Re: Excuses 2020

https://twitter.com/martinonyc/status/1204580464188514304 Holy crap, the Wilpons are so cheap/budget-conscious that they can't sign a 5th SP or a RP unless and until the GM trades his former client who he signed last year even though they didn't need him.

Frayed Knot Dec 10 2019 07:54 PM Re: Excuses 2020

Lefty Specialist wrote: Seems like they're content to coast through these meetings hoping to not be noticed. Hey Brodie! You inert piece of useless doggie doo-doo. We notice. Strongly worded message to follow. This is the reaction a half day into the meetings? Really?

LWFS Dec 10 2019 08:28 PM Re: Excuses 2020

Frayed Knot wrote: Lefty Specialist wrote: Seems like they're content to coast through these meetings hoping to not be noticed. Hey Brodie! You inert piece of useless doggie doo-doo. We notice. Strongly worded message to follow. This is the reaction a half day into the meetings? Really? No. It's the reaction 2 3/4 days into the meetings. It's profoundly depressing that we apparently have to sell in order to afford a Porcello or Betances.

bmfc1 Dec 11 2019 05:36 AM Re: Excuses 2020

"It's profoundly depressing that we apparently have to sell in order to afford a Porcello or Betances." Definitely. And that the Mets can't afford even Porcello, Betances, Will Harris, and Robinson Chirinos. All 4 might not be enough but they would help and yet the current owner apparently requires the novice GM to trade one or two players before even getting one of those 4.

Lefty Specialist Dec 11 2019 05:49 AM Re: Excuses 2020

We've already gotten our Christmas present in the slow, agonizing death of the Wilpon Era. It'll be slurry from here on in.