Master Index of Archived Threads


Yes, I Want the Mets to Retire _____'s Number ...

Jerry Koosman

9 votes

Tug McGraw

2 votes

Dwight Gooden

1 votes

Ron Darling

0 votes

Keith Hernandez

9 votes

Darryl Strawberry

4 votes

Gary Carter

5 votes

John Franco

3 votes

Todd Hundley

1 votes

Edgardo Alfonzo

4 votes

Carlos Beltran

8 votes

David Wright

17 votes

Jose Reyes

0 votes

None

4 votes

Frayed Knot Sep 24 2019 04:44 PM

Vote for as many or as few as you want, but if you want no one then vote 'None' so it will qualify as a vote registered and not just a choice ignored. For right now I'm sticking to retired (or least no longer playing) guys. We can have deGrom/Alonso discussions at another time.

Frayed Knot Sep 24 2019 04:59 PM Re: Yes, I Want the Mets to Retire _____'s Number ...

btw, if you vote in this poll please tack on a post indicating that you voted. You can, though certainly don't have to, reveal HOW you voted but, with the options varying between one and thirteen, it would help to know the number of voters in addition to the total number of votes so as to determine where we collectively stand on the 'Big Hall/Little Hall' question.

kcmets Sep 24 2019 05:20 PM Re: Yes, I Want the Mets to Retire _____'s Number ...

Went with Wright only. The problem (which to me it's not really a problem) is the Mets have been so stingy with retiring numbers to go retro seems silly to me. Love everyone on that list for the most part, but not enough to retire a number. Let's all grow old together and fifteen years from now we'll do a whole bunch from the current roster after a sick ten-year run of excellence.

Edgy MD Sep 24 2019 05:26 PM Re: Yes, I Want the Mets to Retire _____'s Number ...

I'm like George Will praising Senator Warren, saying, "I agree with her about almost nothing, but at least she'd bring some gravity to the role." I'm not particularly interested in which numbers the Mets retire, as long as they bring due gravity to the decision. As noted in the other thread, if it's a case of "Get me a guy," I can't get behind that.

41Forever Sep 24 2019 05:28 PM Re: Yes, I Want the Mets to Retire _____'s Number ...

I think it was telling that Wright got a hero's send off last year and Reyes' departure was far more muted. I realize Reyes had not formally retired, but I think it was obvious he was not coming back here. That makes me think there is no retired number in his future. I suspect Wright will get in the team Hall of Fame soon, as will Beltran. Might be a precursor to getting a number retired. Reyes, I suspect, gets in the team Hall eventually.

stevejrogers Sep 24 2019 05:32 PM Re: Yes, I Want the Mets to Retire _____'s Number ...

=41Forever post_id=22756 time=1569367690 user_id=69] I realize Reyes had not formally retired, but I think it was obvious he was not coming back here.

I'd wager they didn't want to get stuck in the Woke Social Justice Warrior and MeToo hashtag beehive to give Reyes a proper sendoff like they did with Wright.

G-Fafif Sep 24 2019 06:01 PM Re: Yes, I Want the Mets to Retire _____'s Number ...

Or Wright's career was singular and as such deserved a sendoff unmatched and unprecedented.

Edgy MD Sep 24 2019 07:26 PM Re: Yes, I Want the Mets to Retire _____'s Number ...

Rush Limbaugh is posting from Steve's account.

kcmets Sep 24 2019 07:28 PM Re: Yes, I Want the Mets to Retire _____'s Number ...

=41Forever post_id=22756 time=1569367690 user_id=69]...as will Beltran. Might be a precursor to getting a number retired.

No. Freakin'. Way??

Frayed Knot Sep 24 2019 07:46 PM Re: Yes, I Want the Mets to Retire _____'s Number ...

I voted, and I voted 'None' I could, and likely will, ultimately support Wright, just not ready to commit to it now.

Chad ochoseis Sep 24 2019 07:50 PM Re: Yes, I Want the Mets to Retire _____'s Number ... Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Sep 24 2019 07:58 PM

I'm alone on the "none" train. One of the things I like about the Mets is that they don't feel the need to laud every pretty good ballplayer who comes their way as if he were Willie Mays. The first manager, the beloved manager who won the team's first World Series and then died a Met three years later, one of the best pitchers ever to play the game, and the best offensive catcher in history sound about right to me. A whole lot of really good ballplayers, not so much. Speaking of Willie Mays, I'd include him in the poll. I wouldn't vote for him, but the Willie Freaking Mays argument has merit. Retiring numbers can be as much about sentimentality as skill, so I could also see taking Keef's 17 out of circulation when he retires as a broadcaster in recognition of near-HOF play and long term off-field service. Tough to make the same case for Ron. OE - while I was out here being long-winded, it looks like Frayed Knot joined me on the train. Hey, FK.

kcmets Sep 24 2019 07:58 PM Re: Yes, I Want the Mets to Retire _____'s Number ...

I've often been kinda fascinated that Kranepool never gets a mention.

Fman99 Sep 24 2019 07:59 PM Re: Yes, I Want the Mets to Retire _____'s Number ...

I didn't check off anyone from the post 80's glory. Ask me in 10-15 more years and I'd add more checks to the boxes. For now I went with Kooz, Doc, Straw and Mex. The 16-17-18 would look real nice up there.

41Forever Sep 24 2019 08:08 PM Re: Yes, I Want the Mets to Retire _____'s Number ...

=kcmets post_id=22778 time=1569374923 user_id=53] =41Forever post_id=22756 time=1569367690 user_id=69]...as will Beltran. Might be a precursor to getting a number retired.

No. Freakin'. Way??


If Beltran goes into Cooperstown with the right NY on his cap....

Frayed Knot Sep 24 2019 08:09 PM Re: Yes, I Want the Mets to Retire _____'s Number ...

Yeah, I should have included both Kranepool & Mays in the poll but neither occurred to me as I was in the process of creating. I wouldn't vote for either, but some fans would.

whippoorwill Sep 24 2019 08:11 PM Re: Yes, I Want the Mets to Retire _____'s Number ...

Keith, Darryl, koosman

stevejrogers Sep 24 2019 08:12 PM Re: Yes, I Want the Mets to Retire _____'s Number ...

Edgy MD wrote: Rush Limbaugh is posting from Steve's account. You don't think there'd be a stir, justified or not, of some size on Met social media platform arenas, podcasts, WFAN and what's left of the newspapers if they did give Reyes any sort of sendoff?

Edgy MD Sep 24 2019 08:18 PM Re: Yes, I Want the Mets to Retire _____'s Number ...

Not one worth giving too much of a shit about. If they honestly want to do such a thing, let them do it. If they don't, don't. If the Mets otherwise want to honor him, but choose not to because he was arrested for domestic assault, that's fine. But do it because that's their authentic position, not because they're afraid of hashtags.

Frayed Knot Sep 24 2019 08:25 PM Re: Yes, I Want the Mets to Retire _____'s Number ...

Koosman: #taxevasion Darryl: #drugabuse Dwight: #drugabuse Keith: #cocaine Piazza: #steroids

Edgy MD Sep 24 2019 09:06 PM Re: Yes, I Want the Mets to Retire _____'s Number ...

Yes, I Want the Mets to Retire Paul Sewald's Number.

stevejrogers Sep 24 2019 09:37 PM Re: Yes, I Want the Mets to Retire _____'s Number ...

Frayed Knot wrote: Keith: #cocaine You forgot #NotWoke and #ProblematicOldWhiteMaleBroadcaster ;)

nymr83 Sep 24 2019 09:49 PM Re: Yes, I Want the Mets to Retire _____'s Number ...

I voted Wright, Beltran, Alfonzo, Hernandez I'm sure some of the other 80s guys deserve it, but I dont know them and I don't care. Reyes beat a woman, Wright didn't. If the Mets felt that was a good reason not to honor Reyes, I respect that. If on the other hand they were just wary of the #hashtag attacks, that is a bad reason.

ashie62 Sep 24 2019 10:39 PM Re: Yes, I Want the Mets to Retire _____'s Number ...

Wright Alfonzo Franco Koosman

Benjamin Grimm Sep 25 2019 07:14 AM Re: Yes, I Want the Mets to Retire _____'s Number ...

I voted. A bullet ballot for David Wright. I'd be okay with Keith, but would vote No on all of the others. I'm surprised that Todd Hundley is on the list, and even more surprised that he's received a vote.

seawolf17 Sep 25 2019 07:16 AM Re: Yes, I Want the Mets to Retire _____'s Number ...

Wright and Straw for me. As I said in the other thread, I'm a huge Keith fan so I'd be down with that. No to Mays.

Centerfield Sep 25 2019 08:03 AM Re: Yes, I Want the Mets to Retire _____'s Number ...

Wright and Beltran.

G-Fafif Sep 25 2019 09:35 AM Re: Yes, I Want the Mets to Retire _____'s Number ...

I voted as if yesterday's announcement hadn't happened, for Hernandez and Wright. I'm fine with Koosman getting there first now that it's happening, but he wasn't on my dance card. Tom, Keith, Mike and David would each represent all the bountiful eras of Mets baseball to date as the transcendent Met presences of their respective generations (with little to no overlap). I wouldn't complain a whit if anybody on that ballot was selected. And I do believe had 24 been retired 40 years ago in honor of Willie Mays's significance to New York (ground covered in the magazine cover derby), it would have been and remained appropriate. Doing it now...well, I'd do it, but it would mystify the people who can't quite comprehend anything that happened before they came along.

Vic Sage Sep 25 2019 09:57 AM Re: Yes, I Want the Mets to Retire _____'s Number ...

Kooz, Beltran and Wright, in chronological order, and i would be prepared to eventually include deGrom. Straw and Doc are worthy too, but they embarrassed themselves and the organization. Their numbers deserve no honor. After them, there is a significant drop-off (in longevity and/or relative productivity). I would not include borderline cases, like Keith, Fonzie, and Reyes (his longevity/production might be worthy of including, but i wouldn't include in any event, under Straw/Doc criteria). Franco, Orosco, Darling, Hundley, and McGraw aren't even borderline cases. I'd also consider Kranepool as a special case (as a lifetime met who played for 2 decades from the team's inception), like Casey and Gil. Retiring Mays would be like retiring 42; it has nothing to do with the franchise, just its pre-history. But he's a player of such magnitude that i wouldn't mind claiming him, too, as a special situation based on finishing his career here.

Johnny Lunchbucket Sep 25 2019 10:14 AM Re: Yes, I Want the Mets to Retire _____'s Number ...

I'm okay with Kooz on merit, even if his merit is nearly as meritorious as Seaver's and was not what we'd believed to have met the standards for such an honor until now, but it bothers me that they waited 40 years after they booted him to acknowledge it, and fear that if they're doing this "for the fans" there will be no end to it. We'll have gone from having the highest standards, relatively, to the lowest, which will also make the Mets look bad in the realm of public opinion in a different way as the truth is there have been so few retire-worthy players in their employ. I guess my other concern with Kooz is whether they also then wanna go naming Harrelson and Grote and Jones. And Staub. Wright deserves it. Set a bunch of team records, was universally admired by the club, its fans, and baseball overall, never wore another uni. From there you need to go to Hernandez, Strawberry and Gooden but they all have issues. Keith I think overcomes his non-Met years and snowy past by also becoming as distinct in the booth as he was on the field, winning over generations of new Met fans. Just on baseball, his accomplishments as a Met would open to any number of his teammates. Strawberry and Gooden I could be convinced of sooner than Carter for sure but fine if not. I'm one of those assholes who never really warmed to Beltran. I liked him, I acknowledge how good he was, but his Mets career had considerable bad times for him and the team and is just kinda wobbly. I couldn't tell you whether Beltran would want the honor in fact.

41Forever Sep 25 2019 10:18 AM Re: Yes, I Want the Mets to Retire _____'s Number ...

I don't have a problem with Carter, or Hernandez. I think there are players or managers who transcend their stats. Casey Stengel isn't on the wall for his Mets managerial record. I don't always agree with Tom Verducci, but I saw this quote: "I cannot conjure a single image of Gary Carter with anything but a smile on his face. I have no recollection of a gloomy Carter, not even as his knees began to announce a slow surrender ... Carter played every day with the joy as if it were the opening day of Little League. Gary actually took a lot of grief from his teammates for being a straight arrow. It wasn't the cool thing to do but on the same token, I think he actually served as a role model for a lot of these guys as they aged. He was the ballast of that team. They did have a lot of fun, there's no question about that, but they were also one of the fiercest, most competitive teams I've ever seen and obviously their comebacks from the '86 postseason defines that team. Carter was a huge part of that." I don't think he was a phony. Seemed to put his money where his mouth was. His foundation supports schools where students live in poverty. My Dad worked with him on several charity events and was impressed by their interactions. He's buried in the same small cemetery with my nephew and grandparents. I always walk over to pay my respects to him when I am there for them.

batmagadanleadoff Sep 25 2019 10:27 AM Re: Yes, I Want the Mets to Retire _____'s Number ...

Oh, that's just priceless. Now the Mets should retire numbers for players because they smiled a lot. You also said Trump was a nice guy because, what, you had a nice conversation with him about the weather?

Frayed Knot Sep 25 2019 12:05 PM Re: Yes, I Want the Mets to Retire _____'s Number ...

Kooz -- his qualifications are as good as anyone not already honored. But while them getting around to this 40 years and 20-some issuances of #36 later doesn't PROVE that it's being done mostly for pr purposes and that this represents merely the first of a slew of questionable choices ... it sure smells like it to me Keith -- based on my loose standards of being at least worthy of HoF consideration and a majority of your career as a NYM, Keith maybe hits the first and misses out on the second (43% of PA) I'm also wary of considering the announcing stint as a reason to push him over the top. Carter -- 19 years in MLB, five as a Met, two of them any good. No. Reggie as a Yanqui was a similar choice and he was a horrible choice that the club should be, but isn't remotely, embarrassed about. Beltran -- Saying he played more games as a NYM than anywhere else, while technically true, still means less than 1/3 of his ML time (based on PA) came in blue and orange (and black). Signed a BIG seven year FA deal: 1st was essentially the worst of his career, three of the seven were terrific, but two were significantly injury-shortened (~600 PA combined) and the final one shortened by the mid-season trade. Not close to enough IMO even before you throw in the idea that he was only partially popular (however unfair much of the 'anti' feeling was). And, no, what 'Hat' he wears if and when he goes into Cooperstown should have NOTHING to do with a Yea or Nay vote. Alfonzo -- He was a real good player out of the box and was a GREAT player for two seasons before it all went away at age 26. He was done as a Met at 28 and as a ML'er at 32. I need more than that. Reyes -- Had he not left via FA-gency and then had ANY good seasons in his 30s then we could have had a discussion. But he did and then he didn't. Straw -- Pretty similar story arc to Reyes but with more off-field (AND on-field) issues and he continues to lob the occasional grenade the club's way to this day. Dwight - I'd put him in before Straw and I still vote No here. Plus he'd be like even money at best when it comes to the odds of even showing up for the honor. Franco -- a better than average specialist with longevity. That and NYC roots aren't nearly enough. Mays -- He's a baseball icon, a NYC icon, but not a NYM icon regardless of what the old lady owner thought. Wright -- I'm going to change my 'None' vote to this. I'm generally not a numbers guy (couldn't tell you 3/4 of the uni numbers of the CURRENT players) but even I can't imagine them issuing #5 in the future and retirement soon beats the limbo situations of these quasi-retired numbers (24, 8). deGrom -- We'll talk in five years. That'll give me both more time to evaluate his career and to look up his number.

Centerfield Sep 25 2019 12:50 PM Re: Yes, I Want the Mets to Retire _____'s Number ...

Frayed Knot wrote: I'm generally not a numbers guy (couldn't tell you 3/4 of the uni numbers of the CURRENT players) but even I can't imagine them issuing #5 in the future and retirement soon beats the limbo situations of these quasi-retired numbers (24, 8). ...That'll give me both more time to evaluate his career and to look up his number. This is funny. If only there was a website run by a close relative who is a numbers guy where you could look up that number...

dgwphotography Sep 25 2019 12:51 PM Re: Yes, I Want the Mets to Retire _____'s Number ...

Beltran and Wright

Centerfield Sep 25 2019 01:04 PM Re: Yes, I Want the Mets to Retire _____'s Number ...

I don't have a problem with Carter, or Hernandez. I think there are players or managers who transcend their stats. Casey Stengel isn't on the wall for his Mets managerial record. I don't always agree with Tom Verducci, but I saw this quote: "I cannot conjure a single image of Gary Carter with anything but a smile on his face. I have no recollection of a gloomy Carter, not even as his knees began to announce a slow surrender ... Carter played every day with the joy as if it were the opening day of Little League. Gary actually took a lot of grief from his teammates for being a straight arrow. It wasn't the cool thing to do but on the same token, I think he actually served as a role model for a lot of these guys as they aged. He was the ballast of that team. They did have a lot of fun, there's no question about that, but they were also one of the fiercest, most competitive teams I've ever seen and obviously their comebacks from the '86 postseason defines that team. Carter was a huge part of that." I don't think he was a phony. Seemed to put his money where his mouth was. His foundation supports schools where students live in poverty. My Dad worked with him on several charity events and was impressed by their interactions. He's buried in the same small cemetery with my nephew and grandparents. I always walk over to pay my respects to him when I am there for them. For what it's worth, I don't think Gary Carter was phony either. I think he was openly self-centered. Campaigned to be Mets manager while Randolph held the job. Spoke openly about how he felt he was HOF worthy. Threw himself a HOF party in anticipation of getting inducted first ballot (he wasn't). I didn't know about the MVP griping but i'm not at all surprised. But none of this was done maliciously. I think he was just shockingly unaware of how he came across. I don't think he took grief from his teammates just for being a straight arrow. I think it's incredibly grating to be around someone that self-centered who has no idea that being self-centered is an annoying trait.

Frayed Knot Sep 25 2019 02:09 PM Re: Yes, I Want the Mets to Retire _____'s Number ...

Frayed Knot wrote: I'm generally not a numbers guy (couldn't tell you 3/4 of the uni numbers of the CURRENT players) but even I can't imagine them issuing #5 in the future and retirement soon beats the limbo situations of these quasi-retired numbers (24, 8). ...That'll give me both more time to evaluate his career and to look up his number. This is funny. If only there was a website run by a close relative who is a numbers guy where you could look up that number... Well it's not like I don't know where to find numbers, it's just that they've never been all that important to me and so I rarely retain them. I mean, I've seen Jacob deGrom pitch a thousand times but, sitting here, I realize I have no clue what number he wears. In the helmet sports (NFL, NHL) it's more necessary, but I never needed to know uni numbers in order to distinguish Backman from Strawberry. Give me that day's starting lineup and I'll probably miss six of the nine ... and that's on a good day.

Centerfield Sep 25 2019 02:52 PM Re: Yes, I Want the Mets to Retire _____'s Number ...

I know. I'm just saying. It's funny to have two brothers on such opposite extremes. But then again, my brother and I are like that too. He's funny looking and I'm dashing.

Vic Sage Sep 25 2019 03:15 PM Re: Yes, I Want the Mets to Retire _____'s Number ...

FK has talked me out of Beltran. So its just Wright (and Kooz) for now, with an eye towards DeGrom (at some point, maybe).

Frayed Knot Sep 25 2019 03:39 PM Re: Yes, I Want the Mets to Retire _____'s Number ...

=Centerfield post_id=22911 time=1569444736 user_id=65] I know. I'm just saying. It's funny to have two brothers on such opposite extremes. But then again, my brother and I are like that too. He's funny looking and I'm dashing.

I can't do Bernie Sanders impressions either.







btw, I gave myself a quiz to see how many uni numbers I could get from tonight's lineup and got six of the nine, although I really only 'knew' (Rosario & Cano) while partially guessing on the others.

Whiffed on McNeil, Ramos, and Frazier

Willets Point Sep 25 2019 09:24 PM Re: Yes, I Want the Mets to Retire _____'s Number ...

I voted.

metsmarathon Sep 25 2019 09:46 PM Re: Yes, I Want the Mets to Retire _____'s Number ...

My official votes are Wright Keith Carter. I would totally support Beltran too.

Edgy MD Sep 25 2019 10:00 PM Re: Yes, I Want the Mets to Retire _____'s Number ...

I could go either way but it's worth pointing out that Kiara is clearly his coolest child and she got the Mets uniform. https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--wwaqjzr1--/c_scale,f_auto,fl_progressive,q_80,w_800/tiaof4gc4hkrt4bev91p.jpg> God bless that little goldfish.

Centerfield Sep 26 2019 10:27 AM Re: Yes, I Want the Mets to Retire _____'s Number ...

Back to Beltran. He was here for six and a half years. He lost about a year with his knee injury but was productive for the remaining five and a half. For about 4 of those 6.5 years, he put up numbers as good as any Met ever. Even 2005 (his "bad" year), he had a .744 OPS and 2.9 WAR. And oh yeah, he played the last two months with a broken face. Five time All-Star, MVP votes in 4 seasons, three Gold Gloves, two Silver Sluggers. He is 3rd all time in WAR among Mets position players (trails Wright and Strawberry). Fourth all time in OPS (Olerud, Wright, Piazza). He's in the top 10 in nearly every Mets offensive category. Will go into the Hall of Fame with a Mets logo on his cap. No brainer.

Edgy MD Sep 26 2019 10:52 AM Re: Yes, I Want the Mets to Retire _____'s Number ...

So, is the dog wearing Carlos' Cardinal uniform and the cat the uniform from Carlos' Puerto Rican Winter League team?

stevejrogers Sep 26 2019 10:55 AM Re: Yes, I Want the Mets to Retire _____'s Number ...

Edgy MD wrote: So, is the dog wearing Carlos' Cardinal uniform and the cat the uniform from Carlos' Puerto Rican Winter League team? Texas Rangers for 52 games in the latter half of 2016. August 1, 2016: Traded by the New York Yankees to the Texas Rangers for Nick Green (minors), Erik Swanson and Dillon Tate.

Edgy MD Sep 26 2019 11:13 AM Re: Yes, I Want the Mets to Retire _____'s Number ...

So, great. I'm mistaking the flag of Texas for the Puerto Rican flag.

G-Fafif Sep 26 2019 11:29 AM Re: Yes, I Want the Mets to Retire _____'s Number ...

Edgy MD wrote: So, great. I'm mistaking the flag of Texas for the Puerto Rican flag. A friend told me that in a fit of post-9/11 U-S-A! patriotism, her friend's husband ran right out and bought a Puerto Rican flag.

Edgy MD Sep 26 2019 11:35 AM Re: Yes, I Want the Mets to Retire _____'s Number ...

I'm just going blind, dammit.

Valadius Sep 27 2019 02:39 PM Re: Yes, I Want the Mets to Retire _____'s Number ...

Well if Koosman's getting it anyway, what the hell, I'll put him down. In order of when I think they should hold a ceremony for the remainder of my choices, for me it's Hernandez, Carter, Wright, joint McGraw/Franco, and Beltran.