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So, Mickey Gets Another Half Year... Right?

kcmets Sep 29 2019 05:41 PM

Right?

ashie62 Sep 29 2019 05:49 PM Re: So, Mickey Gets Another Half Year... Right?

NOOOOOOOOOO

TransMonk Sep 29 2019 05:55 PM Re: So, Mickey Gets Another Half Year... Right?

I hope not.

Edgy MD Sep 29 2019 09:24 PM Re: So, Mickey Gets Another Half Year... Right?

I don't know if the decisions have already been made either way, but the ultimate ending of that last game had to have bought him at least some grace, deserved or not.

Gwreck Sep 29 2019 09:46 PM Re: So, Mickey Gets Another Half Year... Right?

Did it? It seemed to me he did a poor job managing sentimental concerns and competition concerns, and just wound up lucky in the end.

Edgy MD Sep 29 2019 09:59 PM Re: So, Mickey Gets Another Half Year... Right?

That's what grace is, man — love that you don't really deserve.

seawolf17 Sep 30 2019 08:31 AM Re: So, Mickey Gets Another Half Year... Right?

I think he does too, whether that's the right call or not.

Johnny Lunchbucket Sep 30 2019 08:43 AM Re: So, Mickey Gets Another Half Year... Right?

I always feel bad for outgoing Mets managers because it's never 100% their fault. Mickey I feel was sorta left to twist a bit by the administration, tried to carry out the directives but never really found a comfortable footing. And the Diaz-Familia failures really doomed him. Beyond that both his teams really underachieved in the early going, I think partially because they were underprepared, and he couldn't pull either one out nearly in time, and that's on him. My feeling is its such now that you can't craft a Diaz-Familia comeback that includes Mickey, or a complete picture of the Brodie Era Mets without him naming his own field general. I think its possible that a club like Pittsburgh or Kansas City could get a chastened and more wisdom-infused Mickey to be their manager and be successful.

smg58 Sep 30 2019 09:41 AM Re: So, Mickey Gets Another Half Year... Right?

Johnny Lunchbucket wrote: I always feel bad for outgoing Mets managers because it's never 100% their fault. Mickey I feel was sorta left to twist a bit by the administration, tried to carry out the directives but never really found a comfortable footing. And the Diaz-Familia failures really doomed him. Beyond that both his teams really underachieved in the early going, I think partially because they were underprepared, and he couldn't pull either one out nearly in time, and that's on him. My feeling is its such now that you can't craft a Diaz-Familia comeback that includes Mickey, or a complete picture of the Brodie Era Mets without him naming his own field general. I think its possible that a club like Pittsburgh or Kansas City could get a chastened and more wisdom-infused Mickey to be their manager and be successful. That's a very reasonable assessment. Personally I was willing to defend Callaway until he threatened a reporter.

duan Sep 30 2019 10:47 AM Re: So, Mickey Gets Another Half Year... Right?

I just think there's way too many things where I go "he went with his gut and his gut was wrong" that I don't think his in game decision making is great. I don't think he's a substantial contributor to the positive mental attitude that a number of the team exude - though I could be wrong about that - I think that's mainly created by the players. It's hard to know if you can blame him at all for the Familia/Diaz cluster fuck, but you certainly can't say he was great for them, and none of the pitchers took a leap forward through his leadership. I also don't think I'd give him much credit for the O'Neil/Alonso break outs... And fucking finally there's the Vargas thing. Honestly that was so bad.

metirish Sep 30 2019 11:39 AM Re: So, Mickey Gets Another Half Year... Right?

I will not be one bit surprised if he's back, or if he's fired

Centerfield Sep 30 2019 12:23 PM Re: So, Mickey Gets Another Half Year... Right?

Mickey's an idiot. Regardless of whether ownership ponies up and raises payroll or not, no team should intentionally handicap themselves with an idiot manager. Plus he's not likeable. Terry Collins may not have been the sharpest guy out there, but he was so likeable. I have no idea what Jeff will do here. It's hard to predict stupid people.

Ceetar Sep 30 2019 12:43 PM Re: So, Mickey Gets Another Half Year... Right?

I 'like' Callaway better than Terry, but perhaps because I kinda enjoy the way he makes the beat guys gnash their teeth. Given young kids I haven't really been able to dive into the minutia of strategy the way I did previously. I liked a lot of what I heard from Callaway early, but it seems like he departed from some of that, and I'm not sure that was organizational directive or him over-correcting where he felt he 'failed'. I don't really have a good read on Brodie's tactics yet, but letting a manager ride out the season while you get acquainted with everything seems pretty standard, and then replacing him with your own guy. I don't think they _have_ to ditch him, but it is probably the right move. Many managers are much the same though, so I can't even say there's someone out there I want. It's all so tied in with stuff we don't understand, directives from above, clubhouse stuff we never hear, injuries and issues we never learn about.

41Forever Sep 30 2019 01:22 PM Re: So, Mickey Gets Another Half Year... Right?

I think he is learning on the job a lot, and would have benefited from some time managing in the minors before trying to make the transition from pitching coach to manager. I know some guys make a jump and are successful, but not everyone. I don't think he's an idiot. I think he's inexperienced. I think a lot of rookie managers are in a situation where the team is bad and he gets a couple years to grow before results are expected. Mickey was handed the keys to a club with expectations of contending right away. I think he's gone because a new GM will want his own guy in there and Brodie might have ideas. But I hope Mickey gets another chance somewhere eventually.

Vic Sage Sep 30 2019 01:34 PM Re: So, Mickey Gets Another Half Year... Right?

Hire. Maddon. Now.

G-Fafif Sep 30 2019 01:58 PM Re: So, Mickey Gets Another Half Year... Right?

Mickey's culture of positivity (kind of maddening when we yearn for a manager to deliver a public tongue-lashing) probably paid off in cultivating an atmosphere of impressionable players not letting down in a season that seemed to be lost. I'd guess that's not an insignificant factor in what a manager does. The parts we see, the in-game machinations, have produced too many brutal potholes along the way to compensate for the personality-based assets he brings. Callaway might have been the right guy to nurture a roster full of young, promising players in today's baseball, but it likely needs to be somebody else to guide them to a higher level.

Edgy MD Sep 30 2019 08:50 PM Re: So, Mickey Gets Another Half Year... Right?

The offseason attitude toward Mickey seems to be beginning to center on "How can you get those seasons out of Alonso and deGrom and not prosper?" While I don't particularly disagree, that sort of perspective judges him out of context. There were outsized seasons — particularly on offense — all around the league this season. And while Alonso's power trip has been a fun rocket ride, it was hardly and unimpeachable season. He struck out 183 times, breaking the team record and breaking it by 13.7% over the previous high. That said it takes more than personnel to get the best production out of your team, but I never sensed a consistent philosophy coalescing around Mickey's management, and that was nettlesome. What's, um, Glenn Hubbard up to? He seemed like a guy who could manage a team. How about Craig Biggio? He's coached a high-school team. The Mets love that sort of experience.

LWFS Sep 30 2019 09:00 PM Re: So, Mickey Gets Another Half Year... Right?

Vic Sage wrote: Hire. Maddon. Now. Yyyyyyep.

batmagadanleadoff Sep 30 2019 09:08 PM Re: So, Mickey Gets Another Half Year... Right?

Vic Sage wrote: Hire. Maddon. Now. Yyyyyyep. I agree. But dream on.

metirish Oct 01 2019 06:47 AM Re: So, Mickey Gets Another Half Year... Right?

Apparently BVW likes Buck Showalter https://nypost.com/2019/10/01/enticing-directions-mets-could-go-if-they-fire-mickey-callaway/

Johnny Lunchbucket Oct 01 2019 07:04 AM Re: So, Mickey Gets Another Half Year... Right?

I think Buck might be fun.

metirish Oct 01 2019 07:15 AM Re: So, Mickey Gets Another Half Year... Right?

Fun until things go pear shaped ...but , he has the all important NY pedigree

Ceetar Oct 01 2019 07:33 AM Re: So, Mickey Gets Another Half Year... Right?

do not want Buck myself. I know these things tend to oscillate, 'new blood', 'old school' and we have the new guy now, but I'd still rather someone that hasn't coached before.

LWFS Oct 01 2019 10:32 AM Re: So, Mickey Gets Another Half Year... Right? Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Oct 01 2019 10:32 AM

Johnny Lunchbucket wrote: I think Buck might be fun. Not the first, nor the third, nor the 37,853rd word I think of when I think of Showalter.

LWFS Oct 01 2019 10:32 AM Re: So, Mickey Gets Another Half Year... Right?

Johnny Lunchbucket wrote: I think Buck might be fun. Not the first, or third, nor 37,853rd word I think of when I think of Showalter.

Johnny Lunchbucket Oct 01 2019 10:41 AM Re: So, Mickey Gets Another Half Year... Right?

Maybe not like, a guy you wanna go get beers with fun, but buttoned-up Whitey Herzog fun. A manager who manages, has equity as a talent evaluator, strong opinions on how things oughta be done fun.

bmfc1 Oct 03 2019 06:37 AM Re: So, Mickey Gets Another Half Year... Right?

Ken Rosenthal tweets today that we should keep an eye on Carlos Beltran: https://twitter.com/Ken_Rosenthal/status/1179731787465003008 For me, if you are going with someone who is a former player with no major league managerial experience then I'd pick Edgardo Alonfzo who managed in Brooklyn (and won) this past season.

Edgy MD Oct 03 2019 07:16 AM Re: So, Mickey Gets Another Half Year... Right?

Met fans' assholes would explode if Beltran got the job. I'm all for it.

LWFS Oct 03 2019 07:25 AM Re: So, Mickey Gets Another Half Year... Right? Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Oct 03 2019 07:30 AM

Venis Takee intrigues. But I always thought Delgado seemed like he would make an excellent minijar.

Centerfield Oct 03 2019 07:29 AM Re: So, Mickey Gets Another Half Year... Right?

The following things would definitely happen if Carlos Beltran were to get the manager job: 1. He'd be terrific. 2. Fans wouldn't get it. 3. We'd hear about the strikeout from idiots every time they got mad. 4. He would not be given the talent to win the division, then would be blamed for losing by fans and management. The Wilpons would throw him under the bus and it would end poorly. That being said, as much as I love Carlos, he did seem to me like he was a sensitive guy. And that's a death sentence for a Mets manager.

kcmets Oct 03 2019 08:44 AM Re: So, Mickey Gets Another Half Year... Right?

Very intriguing outside-of-the box idea on no one's radar. I don't know about being all in but I kinda like it.

Johnny Lunchbucket Oct 03 2019 08:53 AM Re: So, Mickey Gets Another Half Year... Right?

I dunno. Does Beltran really strike you as a strong communicator? He sure had a hard time making the extent of his knee injury understood. I'm sure that was a two-way misunderstanding influenced by evil purposes, but it's what I thought of.

kcmets Oct 03 2019 09:13 AM Re: So, Mickey Gets Another Half Year... Right?

I just read on his Wikipage he interviewed for the Yankee job (I didn't know that) and they picked Booner of course but it's interesting to me.

Ceetar Oct 03 2019 09:29 AM Re: So, Mickey Gets Another Half Year... Right?

Johnny Lunchbucket wrote: I dunno. Does Beltran really strike you as a strong communicator? He sure had a hard time making the extent of his knee injury understood. I'm sure that was a two-way misunderstanding influenced by evil purposes, but it's what I thought of. I mean, you're talking about medical jargon and the various reports of 3 different opinions. But yeah, I mean, the reports from the last year with the Mets basically had him mentoring Angel Pagan and the reports from the Astros seemed pretty positive on the 'veteran leader' front.

Centerfield Oct 03 2019 10:12 AM Re: So, Mickey Gets Another Half Year... Right?

I don't think he would communicate well with the press, and eventually they would turn on him. I think he would be fine at communicating with teammates.

41Forever Oct 03 2019 10:24 AM Re: So, Mickey Gets Another Half Year... Right?

I think it's interesting, and the Mets have certainly given people first chances. But I think they'll go for someone with experience his time around.

Johnny Lunchbucket Oct 03 2019 11:05 AM Re: So, Mickey Gets Another Half Year... Right?

=41Forever post_id=23618 time=1570119895 user_id=69] I think it's interesting, and the Mets have certainly given people first chances. But I think they'll go for someone with experience his time around.

Yup. The Mets ALWAYS over-correct, swinging from one extreme to another

batmagadanleadoff Oct 03 2019 11:15 AM Re: So, Mickey Gets Another Half Year... Right?

The Mets haven't hired an "experienced" manager in more than 20 years -- and that's saying something. Think about that sentence instead of just glossing over it as if it were a cliche. And now Jeff Wilpon has major input into things. He's a bully at heart and so he wouldn't want an experienced manager. And an experienced manager has options and if he's got options, why the fuck would he want to manage for this dysfunctional train wreck of an organization? Surprise me.

41Forever Oct 03 2019 11:21 AM Re: So, Mickey Gets Another Half Year... Right?

https://www.tradingcarddb.com/Images/Cards/Baseball/8644/8644-1Fr.jpg> https://www.tradingcarddb.com/Images/Cards/Baseball/8637/8637-1Fr.jpg> Terry managed six years in the majors before coming the Mets. I'd count that.

Edgy MD Oct 03 2019 11:22 AM Re: So, Mickey Gets Another Half Year... Right?

Terry Collins and Jerry Manuel and Art Howe weren't experienced?

TransMonk Oct 03 2019 11:24 AM Re: So, Mickey Gets Another Half Year... Right?

Yeah, I think the whole reason Terry got the job was experience.

seawolf17 Oct 03 2019 11:40 AM Re: So, Mickey Gets Another Half Year... Right?

The Mets haven't hired an "experienced" manager in more than 20 years -- and that's saying something. Think about that sentence instead of just glossing over it as if it were a cliche. And now Jeff Wilpon has major input into things. He's a bully at heart and so he wouldn't want an experienced manager. And an experienced manager has options and if he's got options, why the fuck would he want to manage for this dysfunctional train wreck of an organization? Surprise me. The only guy they hired before Callaway with no experience was a guy who has the second highest winning percentage in team history, Willie Randolph.

batmagadanleadoff Oct 03 2019 11:56 AM Re: So, Mickey Gets Another Half Year... Right?

The Mets haven't hired an "experienced" manager in more than 20 years -- and that's saying something. Think about that sentence instead of just glossing over it as if it were a cliche. And now Jeff Wilpon has major input into things. He's a bully at heart and so he wouldn't want an experienced manager. And an experienced manager has options and if he's got options, why the fuck would he want to manage for this dysfunctional train wreck of an organization? Surprise me. The only guy they hired before Callaway with no experience was a guy who has the second highest winning percentage in team history, Willie Randolph. I didn't "literally" mean no experience. For that, they woulda hadda hire me. And the Mets had that high winning percentage despite Willie Randolph. He was a liability, not an asset and if there was WAR for managers, I'm certain Willie's would be negative. But Willie was handed a goddamn Ferrari pretty much right out of the box. You could argue, very plausibly, that no Mets manager in franchise history was handed a better squad to start with, than Willie Randolph. He had everything. He had two budding superstar/MVP candidates that weren't even arbitration eligible, owners that were buying top free agents and trading for players that commanded among the highest salaries in the game. And all he fucking wanted to do was bunt with the #2 hitter. Even in the first innings. Even in the first innings of games played in fucking Denver, where you should know that you're probably gonna need about eight runs to win a game there. Even in the first innings of games played in fucking Denver where your leadoff hitter, who also happened to be the fastest guy in the majors at the time, was already on second base before the #2 hitter even stepped into the batter's box.