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Class of 2020 Hall of Fame ballot. It's gonna be a long couple months

41Forever Nov 18 2019 10:24 AM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Nov 18 2019 03:19 PM

[url]https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/18/sports/baseball/hall-of-fame-ballot-2020.html Mr. Intangibles is on the ballot this year, with not a lot of strong first-timers. It's going to be rough for us to endure the endless gushing. From MLB.com: 1. Will “Captain Clutch” achieve voting perfection? The aura of Jeter -- given his five World Series rings, his 14 All-Star selections, his 3,465 hits, his 1,923 runs and his many postseason exploits -- dominates the BBWAA ballot. No. 2 won't have to wait for a second try. The question is not whether he'll get in but whether he'll join teammate Mariano Rivera, who last year became the first unanimous selection, as a 100 Percenter. Now that the barrier has been broken -- and the ballot is not quite as loaded as it had been in some years past, compelling the concept of “strategic voting” in which a no-doubt-about-it Hall of Famer is left off a particular voter's ballot to make room for somebody who needs the help more -- it's a distinct possibility. Notable hold-overs: NAME, YEAR (2019 vote total, percentage) Curt Schilling, 8th (259, 60.9%) Roger Clemens, 8th (253, 59.5%) Barry Bonds, 8th (251, 59.1%) Larry Walker, 10th (232, 54.6%) Omar Vizquel, 3rd (182, 42.8%) Other names returning to the ballot are Manny Ramirez (97 votes, 22.8% last year), Jeff Kent (77, 18.1%), Scott Rolen (73, 17.2%), Billy Wagner (71, 16.7%), Todd Helton (70, 16.5%), Gary Sheffield (58, 13.6%), Andy Pettitte (42, 9.9%), Sammy Sosa (36, 8.5%) and Andruw Jones (32, 7.5%). Players who receive less than 5% of votes are removed from the ballot the following year.

LWFS Nov 18 2019 10:59 AM Re: Class of 2020 Hall of Fame ballot. It's gonna be a long couple months

Hey, good news! It may be Jeter AND Schilling AND Clemens!

G-Fafif Nov 18 2019 12:27 PM Re: Class of 2020 Hall of Fame ballot. It's gonna be a long couple months

#RE2PECT to whoever doesn't make it unanimous.

nymr83 Nov 18 2019 02:23 PM Re: Class of 2020 Hall of Fame ballot. It's gonna be a long couple months

=G-Fafif post_id=26749 time=1574105257 user_id=55] #RE2PECT to whoever doesn't make it unanimous.

I mean, whoever didn't vote for Edgar Martinez can't for Jeter, right? Because if you won't vote for a DH how can you vote for someone with even less defensive value?

Johnny Lunchbucket Nov 18 2019 03:02 PM Re: Class of 2020 Hall of Fame ballot. It's gonna be a long couple months

=LWFS post_id=26733 time=1574099996 user_id=84] Hey, good news! It may be Jeter AND Schilling AND Clemens!

Geez, and Wagner prolly deserves it given his enshrined reliever contemporaries.

Edgy MD Nov 18 2019 03:16 PM Re: Class of 2020 Hall of Fame ballot. It's gonna be a long couple months

Andy Pettitte will go in in 20 years when somebody way too influential for his own good gets a notion in his head.

41Forever Nov 18 2019 03:25 PM Re: Class of 2020 Hall of Fame ballot. It's gonna be a long couple months

Bonds and/or Clemens going in could actually overshadow Jeter, I think. I also think if Jeter isn't unanimous, there will be collective sportswriter outrage the likes of which we have never seen. Part of me is OK with the notion that if a player is a slam-dunk, first ballot Hall-of-Famer, then he should be elected unanimously. The other part of me wishes this trend had started with Tom Seaver, Cal Ripken or Ken Griffey Jr. instead of with a couple MFYs.

Centerfield Nov 18 2019 04:38 PM Re: Class of 2020 Hall of Fame ballot. It's gonna be a long couple months

=41Forever post_id=26766 time=1574115918 user_id=69] Part of me is OK with the notion that if a player is a slam-dunk, first ballot Hall-of-Famer, then he should be elected unanimously. The other part of me wishes this trend had started with Tom Seaver, Cal Ripken or Ken Griffey Jr. instead of with a couple MFYs.

All of me wishes that slam dunk players should be unanimous. Griffey, Rickey, etc.



But I absolutely hate that it will end up being Jeter and Rivera that started it.



I'm hearing that Jeter should get his own class. Everyone else on the ballot should have to wait a year. I tend to agree. Not only should he get his own class, he should get his own hall. The Derek Jeter Intangibles Hall of Fame.



Let's put it in Siberia.

MFS62 Nov 19 2019 04:00 AM Re: Class of 2020 Hall of Fame ballot. It's gonna be a long couple months

I mean, whoever didn't vote for Edgar Martinez can't for Jeter, right? Because if you won't vote for a DH how can you vote for someone with even less defensive value? Still laughing at this. A truer truth has never been posted. I'm sure there are players in the Hall who built up numbers because of only a few peak years in band-boxish home fields (Lefty O'Doul comes to mind), why should Larry Walker's career in one be held against him? My votes go to players who haven't gotten their due: Walker, Kent, Vizquel (If Ozzie is there, he should be, too), Sammy Sosa (not a drop of evidence) and Manny Ramirez (my homie from Upper Manhattan just for "Manny Being Manny" - and great). Later

Johnny Lunchbucket Nov 19 2019 05:02 AM Re: Class of 2020 Hall of Fame ballot. It's gonna be a long couple months

Jeets won't be unanimous. Too many smarty-farty voters in their mom's basement now

bmfc1 Nov 19 2019 06:26 AM Re: Class of 2020 Hall of Fame ballot. It's gonna be a long couple months

=G-Fafif post_id=26749 time=1574105257 user_id=55] #RE2PECT to whoever doesn't make it unanimous.

Does Andrew Baggerly of The Athletic get a vote because he likes to be a contrarian?

MFS62 Nov 19 2019 06:53 AM Re: Class of 2020 Hall of Fame ballot. It's gonna be a long couple months

=bmfc1 post_id=26779 time=1574169989 user_id=73] =G-Fafif post_id=26749 time=1574105257 user_id=55] #RE2PECT to whoever doesn't make it unanimous.

Does Andrew Baggerly of The Athletic get a vote because he likes to be a contrarian?


It used to be that to be eligible to vote, you had to be a member of the BBWAA for at least 10 years. Has he been? Is that still a rule?

Later

Lefty Specialist Nov 19 2019 07:30 AM Re: Class of 2020 Hall of Fame ballot. It's gonna be a long couple months

Eh, it's gonna be Jeter, Jeter, Jeter nonstop until next July. Hope it rains at his induction.

batmagadanleadoff Nov 19 2019 09:44 AM Re: Class of 2020 Hall of Fame ballot. It's gonna be a long couple months

Let's do this right. Here's the 2020 full ballot. First timers are in bold. Bobby Abreu, Josh Beckett, Heath Bell, Barry Bonds, Eric Chávez, Roger Clemens, Adam Dunn, Chone Figgins, Rafael Furcal, Jason Giambi, Todd Helton, Raúl Ibañez, Derek Jeter, Andruw Jones, Jeff Kent, Paul Konerko, Cliff Lee, Carlos Peña, Brad Penny, Andy Pettitte, J.J. Putz, Manny Ramírez, Brian Roberts, Scott Rolen, Curt Schilling, Gary Sheffield, Alfonso Soriano, Sammy Sosa, José Valverde, Omar Vizquel, Billy Wagner, Larry Walker.

Ceetar Nov 19 2019 09:47 AM Re: Class of 2020 Hall of Fame ballot. It's gonna be a long couple months

Lefty Specialist wrote: Eh, it's gonna be Jeter, Jeter, Jeter nonstop until next July. Hope it rains at his induction. Maybe we should just let schilling in with him so he can ramble off some racist hateful nonsense and overshadow the lovefest.

bmfc1 Nov 19 2019 10:01 AM Re: Class of 2020 Hall of Fame ballot. It's gonna be a long couple months

https://twitter.com/rshields37/status/1196764548109393921/photo/1 I'm interpreting the Daily News cover in a way that was not intended.

kcmets Nov 19 2019 10:13 AM Re: Class of 2020 Hall of Fame ballot. It's gonna be a long couple months

Potty time!

Chad ochoseis Nov 19 2019 12:17 PM Re: Class of 2020 Hall of Fame ballot. It's gonna be a long couple months

I'm hearing that Jeter should get his own class. Everyone else on the ballot should have to wait a year. Please tell me that "I'm hearing" means "some drunk in a Yankee cap was yelling it on the subway" and not "an actual journalist with readership and a salary wrote it with a straight face in a public forum".

Edgy MD Nov 19 2019 12:28 PM Re: Class of 2020 Hall of Fame ballot. It's gonna be a long couple months

In fairness, a unanimous election, while laudable, is a very different thing from what it would have been 30 years ago, as the BBWAA voting body has been sharply pared down.

HahnSolo Nov 19 2019 02:41 PM Re: Class of 2020 Hall of Fame ballot. It's gonna be a long couple months

Bobby Abreu looks like one of those guys who gets under 5% of the vote and kicked off the ballot but 15 years down the line will get a lot of support from the Veterans Committee or whatever they call it.

41Forever Nov 21 2019 02:45 PM Re: Class of 2020 Hall of Fame ballot. It's gonna be a long couple months

Steve Marcus, a Newsday alum, posts a photo of his ballot on Twitter, with only Jeter's name circled. My Just Jeter Hall of Fame ballot for 2020. #keepthehallsmall Outrage ensues. Pat K, @PKellyMLB, Replying to @newsdayalum And how can your hashtag be "keep the hall small" when the Hall isn't small and really has never been. Jesse Haines is in the Hall of Fame. "Make the Hall Small again" would have shown more knowledge of the subject. Ants @AntsInOK, Replying to @newsdayalum this is bad and you should feel bad

Centerfield Nov 21 2019 03:23 PM Re: Class of 2020 Hall of Fame ballot. It's gonna be a long couple months

Chad ochoseis wrote: I'm hearing that Jeter should get his own class. Everyone else on the ballot should have to wait a year. Please tell me that "I'm hearing" means "some drunk in a Yankee cap was yelling it on the subway" and not "an actual journalist with readership and a salary wrote it with a straight face in a public forum". Unfortunately, no. See post above.

41Forever Nov 22 2019 07:09 AM Re: Class of 2020 Hall of Fame ballot. It's gonna be a long couple months

This writer is making the case that Larry Walker is better than Jeter and needs to go in: [url]https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2863533-larry-walker-outperformed-derek-jeter-and-deserves-to-be-in-the-hall-of-fame There does seem to be some momentum growing around Walker, but he's go to make up a lot of ground in his final year. The Detroit News writer put more thought into his ballot than Steve Marcus did: [url]https://www.detroitnews.com/story/sports/mlb/tigers/2019/11/20/heres-my-six-baseball-hall-fame-including-derek-jeter/4248301002/

Ceetar Nov 22 2019 07:48 AM Re: Class of 2020 Hall of Fame ballot. It's gonna be a long couple months

I mean, Walker WAS better than Jeter, so.. Anthony Rieber joined the 'only vote for Jeter' fray, taking guys OFF his ballot from last year. I assume this is his last ballot and year writing about sports, since he's clearly unqualified.

Ceetar Nov 22 2019 07:54 AM Re: Class of 2020 Hall of Fame ballot. It's gonna be a long couple months

[TWEET]https://twitter.com/suss2hyphens/status/1197886972490080256[/TWEET]

G-Fafif Nov 22 2019 01:00 PM Re: Class of 2020 Hall of Fame ballot. It's gonna be a long couple months

Anthony Rieber of Newsday is another Jeets and nobody else voter. The twist is he voted for a bunch of guys last year who he's not voting for this year because Jeter going in alone is apparently a thing in his mind. What a flare for the moment he had. A home run and a memorable over-the-shoulder catch on Opening Day as a rookie in 1996. The Jeffrey Maier home run in the 1996 ALCS. The leadoff homer against the Mets in Game 4 of the 2000 Subway Series. The Flip Play in the 2001 ALDS in Oakland. The game-ending Mr. November home run in the 2001 World Series. The dive into the stands against the Red Sox in 2004. The unusual (for him) home run to left-center for his 3,000th hit. The Jeterian line single to right for the walkoff hit in his final at-bat at Yankee Stadium. Jeter was a winner. A leader. An example of how to carry yourself under the brightest lights, as the shortstop and captain of the New York Yankees, from the George Steinbrenner era to the Hal Steinbrenner era. He's not just a Hall of Famer. The Hall of Fame is so watered down now, the plaques of the great are right next to the plaques of the good and the very good. There is no way to change that. Jeter should be on a Mount Rushmore of sports greatness along with Michael Jordan, Wayne Gretzky, Joe Montana –i.e., athletes who were either the best players or the best winners in their sport. I wish this was clever parody. It is not. https://www.newsday.com/amp/sports/columnists/anthony-rieber/baseball-hall-of-fame-ballot-derek-jeter-1.38802412?__twitter_impression=true Steve Marcus's “small Hall” bit I can see (distaste for Jeter notwithstanding). But this, though it's Rieber's right as an accredited BBWAA member — I really hate “take his vote away” reactions — is absurd.

HahnSolo Nov 22 2019 02:28 PM Re: Class of 2020 Hall of Fame ballot. It's gonna be a long couple months

Oh, if only we could get one voter to be petty and leave Jeter off his ballot just as a response to this moron.

Frayed Knot Nov 22 2019 03:54 PM Re: Class of 2020 Hall of Fame ballot. It's gonna be a long couple months

=G-Fafif post_id=27023 time=1574452800 user_id=55]Steve Marcus's “small Hall” bit I can see (distaste for Jeter notwithstanding). But this, though it's Rieber's right as an accredited BBWAA member — I really hate “take his vote away” reactions — is absurd.

Beyond absurd and well on its way towards disgusting.



Look, if you want to make an argument for Jeter only then do it on its merits. The rest of the ballot isn't exactly brimming with no-brainers so one could make a case for that if they wanted.

But don't go dropping previously worthy votes off your ballot in this go around just so as to create some kind of 'One and Only' status. The idea that someone deserving might not get into

the HoF simply so an increased spotlight can shine solely on St. Jete during his triumphal ride into Jerusalem should cause a voter to reconsider his aim and his colleagues to turn on such logic.

And stop with the 'He's Jordan ... he's Gretzky' nonsense. He not only isn't either of them, he isn't close.

batmagadanleadoff Nov 22 2019 04:10 PM Re: Class of 2020 Hall of Fame ballot. It's gonna be a long couple months

You know what's really sickening about this? Okay, lotsa things. But what really annoys me is this: take Jeter's best season. Whatever you think is his best season - go with it. A-Rod had five, six, seven whatever seasons better than Jeter's best.

Edgy MD Nov 22 2019 05:13 PM Re: Class of 2020 Hall of Fame ballot. It's gonna be a long couple months

Jeter should be on a Mount Rushmore of sports greatness along with Michael Jordan, Wayne Gretzky, Joe Montana –i.e., athletes who were either the best players or the best winners in their sport. Or, alternatively, he might have been as good as Arky Vaughn — though I have my doubts. I have a feeling the river's going to rise and the city's going to flood from two months of non-stop soft rain.

Frayed Knot Nov 23 2019 04:02 PM Re: Class of 2020 Hall of Fame ballot. It's gonna be a long couple months

You know what's really sickening about this? Okay, lotsa things. But what really annoys me is this: take Jeter's best season. Whatever you think is his best season - go with it. A-Rod had five, six, seven whatever seasons better than Jeter's best. By OPS, Rodriguez notched seven seasons above Jeter's best and twelve above Jeter's second best. By OPS+ those numbers are at six and twelve And then there's WAR per season while they were teammates: 2004 (ARod's 1st NYY season): Tops on the team vs Jeter = 3rd best on team 2005: 1st vs 8th 2006: 4th vs 2nd 2007: 1st vs 6th 2008: 1st vs 6th 2009: 6th vs 1st 2010: 5th vs 11th 2001: 5th vs ??? (not in top 12) 2012: 11th vs 9th But at least Jeter was the better fielder ... on wait, he wasn't. So shirley he stole bases at a better clip ... except that he didn't (81.2% to 78.6%)

MFS62 Nov 23 2019 06:39 PM Re: Class of 2020 Hall of Fame ballot. It's gonna be a long couple months

A-Rod was the best shortstop ever to wear the MFY uniform. Too bad Jeter never let him show it. We're going to find out how many voters never opened their gift baskets. And, if a case is to be made for Larry Walker, addressing the "Coors thing": Larry Walker away from #Rockies Coors Field — .282/.372/.501 versus- Dave Winfield* .283/.353/.475 Kirby Puckett*.318/.360/.477 Andre Dawson*.279/.323/.482 Billy Williams*.290/.361/.492 Jim Rice*.298/.352/.502 *Hall of Famer Walker leads the group in: rWAR OPS+ fWAR wOBA wRC+ courtesy of the @aceofspaeder Later

smg58 Nov 23 2019 07:30 PM Re: Class of 2020 Hall of Fame ballot. It's gonna be a long couple months

Schilling is ahead of both Jeter and Walker in WAR, at least according to Fangraphs.

nymr83 Nov 24 2019 05:09 PM Re: Class of 2020 Hall of Fame ballot. It's gonna be a long couple months

Sammy Sosa (not a drop of evidence) He did get caught cheating, but it was calked bat I believe.

Double Switch Nov 24 2019 05:52 PM Re: Class of 2020 Hall of Fame ballot. It's gonna be a long couple months

Corked.

41Forever Dec 08 2019 06:24 PM Re: Class of 2020 Hall of Fame ballot. It's gonna be a long couple months

Ted Simmons and Marvin Miller get enshrined by the vets. Good picks. Surprised Lou Whitaker didn't get it.

G-Fafif Dec 08 2019 06:43 PM Re: Class of 2020 Hall of Fame ballot. It's gonna be a long couple months

Marvin Miller mght come back from the great beyond just to tell them to stick it. There were no bad choices on this ballot, save for the ones attached to pinstripes. Good for Keith's pal.

Gwreck Dec 08 2019 08:26 PM Re: Class of 2020 Hall of Fame ballot. It's gonna be a long couple months

I recall reading that Miller instructed before his death that no one accept on his behalf and that he wants the induction declined.

Edgy MD Dec 08 2019 09:08 PM Re: Class of 2020 Hall of Fame ballot. It's gonna be a long couple months

Simmons had probably been the best catcher on the outside looking in among eligible candidates. There was a time after Johnny Bench was elected that the Hall of Fame didn't induct any catchers. It was as if Bench had become the new standard. Johnny went in 1989 and it wasn't until 2000 that Carlton FisK went in on his second try, the Hall taking an indifferent pass on Simmons, Joe Torre, Darrel Porter and others. It took six elections to get Gary Carter in. And maybe sometime in the ensuing years, the Hall remembered that there used to be a different standard for catchers — not to measure them necessarily against all-star hitters at other positions, but to accept that they still get more wear and tear and are responsible for a lot more before they ever get to the plate. Mike Piazza and Ivan Rodriguez were pretty easy calls in recent years, but I'm glad to see reconsideration of the more historical standard for catchers. Rick Ferrell and Ray Schalk had offensive numbers far below Porter and nobody wants to burn down the Hall over them.

dinosaur jesus Dec 09 2019 08:19 AM Re: Class of 2020 Hall of Fame ballot. It's gonna be a long couple months

Edgy MD wrote: Rick Ferrell and Ray Schalk had offensive numbers far below Porter and nobody wants to burn down the Hall over them. Maybe they should. Ferrell and Schalk were terrible choices. I'm fine with Simmons, though.