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Matsui

A Boy Named Seo Apr 09 2006 05:51 PM

Is now eligible to be off the DL, but he seems to be a bit of a ghost. [url=http://www.thejournalnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060409/SPORTS01/604090351/1108/SPORTS01]The Journal News [/url]quotes Willie as saying "Matsui has to get back into game shape," and "there's no rush, that's for sure" which makes an extended rehab assignment sound like the next plan. Who goes when Matsui comes back? Diaz? Valentin? Woody can do everything Valentin can do except bat lefthanded. Hernandez seems the most likely. He's looked pretty overmatched at the plate despite two hits today, and has even looked shaky in the field on a couple of occasions. What if he goes on a mini-tear?

OlerudOwned Apr 09 2006 05:57 PM

I'd hope that Matsui first gets a rehab assignment. That way, Hernandez has one last chance to prove himself at the plate. If he does start to hit, then I don't know. I'd like Valentin off because he cannot hit, but I don't see any way he's sent off. Diaz would most likely revist AAA.

Elster88 Apr 09 2006 06:09 PM

On the FAN today they said that Willie said that Kaz will have to earn the spot at second. Apparently hitting under .200 is not enough to lose you the job if you're a nasty fielder.

Edgy DC Apr 09 2006 06:12 PM

No prob with him having to win his job. I hope that doesn't mean he has to win a spot on the big league roster. I think Kaz spit on Willie's Subway.

vtmet Apr 09 2006 09:59 PM

Hopefully Kaz rehabs long enough for Anderson Hernandez to figure out how to hit lefty in the majors...don't know if it's just fluke timing but he's 3 for 7 batting RH'd against lefties, but has taken the collar batting LH'd against righties...his swing looks a lot more under control RH'd so it may not be a fluke... I'd venture a guess that Diaz is only on the MLB roster until Kaz is ready to come off the DL...However, I'm really not seeing much of an upside to Valentin on the roster... I wouldn't be too surprised by a platoon of AH/Kaz: AH playing against lefties; Kaz playing against righties, until we get a lead and then put AH in for defensive purposes; That gives AH more MLB exposure until he gains composure with a bat in hand, and keeps him ready for defensive purposes...also gives us a chance to "showcase" Kaz a little bit, and Kaz can be an additional pinch runner...

Elster88 Apr 13 2006 04:09 PM

So what are Woody's career numbers?

TheOldMole Apr 14 2006 12:27 PM

Kaz Matsui (sprained knee) played second base for Class-A St. Lucie last night at Jupiter, going 1-for-3.

abogdan Apr 14 2006 12:29 PM

From rotoworld: ]Anderson Hernandez received a strong vote of confidence from manager Willie Randolph following Thursday's game. Hernandez appears to have a strong grip on second even when Kaz Matsui returns. "That's what it's all about," Randolph said. "You don't want to mess up that rhythm. I'm not just going to throw Matsui in there when he gets back. If we're playing well, and [Hernandez] is doing certain things, then he's going to play. That could be all year as far as I'm concerned. I'm not going to fool around with a situation that's working."

Elster88 Apr 14 2006 12:35 PM

I guess throwing Kaz back in would mean an immediate losing streak. It's unusual for a highly-paid player to be given a backseat upon return from an injury when his replacement has been so awful at the plate.

Centerfield Apr 14 2006 12:38 PM

Agreed. Sometimes I wonder if people realize Hernandez is still hitting .185 even with this current "hot streak".

Frayed Knot Apr 14 2006 01:03 PM

Dave Lennon in today's Newsday went completely off the edge on this (IMO), saying that AndyHandy has locked up the 2nd base job 'not just for 2 weeks or a month but maybe for the next decade'. Umm, reality check time Dave. Be nice if it happens and all but let's calm down a bit there. No DP turned - however nice - is worth it if his kind of hitting continues. And not only do his outs rarely make it out of the infield but neither have his last two hits. Y'know, those two hits which doubled his year's total and boosted his Avg UP to .185

Elster88 Apr 14 2006 08:10 PM

Most of the radio call-in would-be geniuses are terrified that Matsui will get back into the lineup when he returns. I wonder how many of them also called in the late 90's to say that Rey Ordonez's glove did not justify keeping his bat in the lineup.

vtmet Apr 14 2006 08:11 PM

Elster88 wrote: I guess throwing Kaz back in would mean an immediate losing streak. It's unusual for a highly-paid player to be given a backseat upon return from an injury when his replacement has been so awful at the plate. You make it sound like Kaz is a benched all-star that got into his manager's doghouse...Kaz batted a whopping .255 last season...and until September last season, Kaz batted .231 while playing crappy defense with only 10 extra basehits...so, a superior defensive player can be condemned for taking an 0-fer-3-games in his rookie season; but a seasoned veteran that is horrible defensively and is also unreliable, gets a free pass for batting equally bad for 216 at bats? We've had a good chance to gauge Kaz's uselessness for 2 seasons, I think a rookie that hit in the minors, that is a defensive wiz, that instills confidence in his pitchers, and followed his 3 game hitless streak with a 4 game hitting streak should get a chance to sink or swim for awhile...

Elster88 Apr 14 2006 08:12 PM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Apr 14 2006 08:18 PM

So the phrase "highly paid player" sounds like "benched all-star that got into his manager's doghouse"? My hearing must be going, too. ]4 game hitting streak should get a chance to sink or swim for awhile... 4 hits on the season including an infield chopper and a bunt single. _____________________ I'm not in love with Kaz, as I've said in about 8 million other places. But by the time he gets back to the team, we'll probably have seen a month of Hernandez. If Andy's still hitting under .200 at that point, I think he sank. It's amazing how much the hatred of Kaz results in love for a replacement who is playing at a poorer rate than he is. At this point, Andy is the perfect backup second baseman/shortstop. Kaz is not the perfect starter, but at this point he's a better choice than Andy. Of course this is subject to change based on Andy's bat. Why is it so hard for people to realize this? Or do you really think his glove is worth keeping his bat in the lineup?

vtmet Apr 14 2006 08:18 PM

Funny how you chose to "Not" quote the beginning of that statement, which was: ]We've had a good chance to gauge Kaz's uselessness for 2 seasons, I think a rookie that hit in the minors, that is a defensive wiz, that instills confidence in his pitchers, and followed his 3 game hitless streak with a

Elster88 Apr 14 2006 08:21 PM Edited 3 time(s), most recently on Apr 14 2006 08:36 PM

Not funny at all, I only quoted the part of your post that I was addressing at that particular point. If you'll comprehend what you're reading, you'll see that I also dealt with the other part of your post by saying this: All of Hernandez's attributes (what you refer to as hitting in the minors, defense, and comfortable pitchers) are not worth keeping a .185 hitter in a starting role in the majors either. If you think hitting in the minors, defense, and comfortable pitchers is worth keeping his bat in the lineup, then I guess he is your ideal starting second baseman. It's actually not worth it. If you'll notice, I said Andy's bat will decide if he should keep starting or not. It's all on him, not on some imagined love-affair with Kaz. Let him show he can hit. How hard is this? Am I really not giving the guy a fair shake because I'm asking him to hit at a major league level? __________________ I'd still like to know where you thought I said "benched all-star that got into his manager's doghouse". EDIT: grammar

Edgy DC Apr 14 2006 08:26 PM

I don't think Hernandez has been condemned. Kaz is the one in the limbo known as extended spring training and being called useless. The Mets were criticized in these parts last year for acquiring young Hernandez, criticized because he hadn't hit in the minors.

Bret Sabermetric Apr 14 2006 08:38 PM

Elster88 wrote: It's amazing how much the hatred of Kaz results in love for a replacement who is playing at a poorer rate than he is. You're probably right, Elster, that the symbolism of Kaz Matsui detracts from fans' perceptions of his practical value to the Mets' current roster. To me, at least, his appearance in the Mets' starting lineup evokes such horrible memories of 2004 and 2005, of stubbornness and CYA policies, of shockingly inept fielding at two key positions, at his whole foolish signing debacle, that, even if he is the best 2b man on the roster, I want him gone. He steps out ofn the field and I'm all "Oh, no! It's The 2005 Mets! Can Joel Cairo and Dug man-cave-itch be far behind?"

Elster88 Apr 14 2006 08:41 PM

That's fair enough. Met fans have been burned enough in the past four years. It may even be what's affecting Willie. Maybe he feels that putting Kaz back in the lineup is the Met equivalent of the clock striking 12 in Cinderella. But I'll still keep arguing against it.

Frayed Knot Apr 14 2006 11:47 PM

"even if he is the best 2b man on the roster, I want him gone. He steps out ofn the field and I'm all "Oh, no! It's The 2005 Mets! " So I guess the starter shouldn't be chosen on who's better but according to how each one makes us FEEEEEEEEL?

Bret Sabermetric Apr 15 2006 05:20 AM

="Frayed Knot"]"even if he is the best 2b man on the roster, I want him gone. He steps out ofn the field and I'm all "Oh, no! It's The 2005 Mets! " So I guess the starter shouldn't be chosen on who's better but according to how each one makes us FEEEEEEEEL? I'll be the first to admit I dislike Matsui on an irrational basis as well as a rational one. The rational basis is, I think, sufficient alone, but the irrational just adds fuel to the fire I'd like to see him burning on.

Nymr83 Apr 15 2006 12:25 PM

Kaz Matsui hit .255/.300/.352 last year in 267 ABs and played what everyone seemed to agree was not good defense. It's April 15th, Anderson Hernandez is hitting .167/.167/.167 in only 30 ABs and playing what i think is good defense. Give him at least half the ABs you gave Matsui before you pass judgement and start calling for the return of the guy who has already proven, over a sufficient sample size, that he can't hit. If Anderson Hernandez is hitting .250/.300/.350 at the end of May then i would keep starting him, because his defense is superior. If he's well below that then maybe it is time to give the guy who has shown he stinks another shot... but I wouldn't be so quick to do that either, I'd want to give Keppinger a look first.

Elster88 Apr 15 2006 01:00 PM

Nymr83 wrote: Kaz Matsui hit .255/.300/.352 last year in 267 ABs and played what everyone seemed to agree was not good defense. It's April 15th, Anderson Hernandez is hitting .167/.167/.167 in only 30 ABs and playing what i think is good defense. Give him at least half the ABs you gave Matsui before you pass judgement and start calling for the return of the guy who has already proven, over a sufficient sample size, that he can't hit. If Anderson Hernandez is hitting .250/.300/.350 at the end of May then i would keep starting him, because his defense is superior. If he's well below that then maybe it is time to give the guy who has shown he stinks another shot... but I wouldn't be so quick to do that either, I'd want to give Keppinger a look first. This all sounds good to me in theory. The problem I have is that you don't give guys a "look" as a starter in the major league regular season in April or May. Let Anderson keep going until Matsui is healthy, maybe a little after that. But if he's still hitting .167 at the end of April, pull the plug, and let him get time in AAA to work on hitting.

Bret Sabermetric Apr 15 2006 01:07 PM

Elster88 wrote: [you don't give guys a "look" as a starter in the major league regular season in April or May.. Which goes back to my complaint of last year (and the year before, and the year before that...) that "giving up" when you're all but mathematically eliminated allows you to hold tryout camp in MLB conditions. What was the friggin point of giving either Matsui or Cairo any MLB at bats in September? That you might draw an extra fanny in the seats by not "giving up" that which you had already all but mathematically lost anyway?

Elster88 Apr 15 2006 01:19 PM

They gave Anderson a limited chance to play. You're right. Last year would've been better. Maybe if Anderson had hit .167 for two months last year, people wouldn't be crying for him to stay in the lineup. But I doubt it. The hatred for Matsui runs too deep.

Nymr83 Apr 15 2006 01:27 PM

Elster88 wrote: They gave Anderson a limited chance to play. You're right. Last year would've been better. Maybe if Anderson had hit .167 for two months last year, people wouldn't be crying for him to stay in the lineup. But I doubt it. The hatred for Matsui runs too deep. If the Mets had given Hernandez all of August and September, and he'd fallen on his face, we'd have one less candidate for the job now which is good. Any Matsui-haters could have still said "We want Keppinger" or even "Give us Lambin."

abogdan Apr 15 2006 02:17 PM

Keppinger went 3 for 4 last night, scoring three runs and driving in one. He's hitting .346/.471/.385 going into today's game.

Elster88 Apr 15 2006 04:56 PM

abogdan wrote: .346/.471/.385 ???

Edgy DC Apr 15 2006 04:59 PM

That's actually accurate. To go along with his 9-26 batting, Keppinger has seven walks. But only one of his hits has been for extra bases.

Elster88 Apr 16 2006 04:33 PM

The good news is that, although he went 0-4, Andy hit the ball out of the infield today.

Edgy DC Apr 16 2006 05:22 PM

]Give him at least half the ABs you gave Matsui before you pass judgement and start calling for the return of the guy who has already proven, over a sufficient sample size, that he can't hit. I disagree that he's proven anything of the sort.

Frayed Knot Apr 16 2006 09:26 PM

Elster88 wrote: The good news is that, although he went 0-4, Andy hit the ball out of the infield today. Which, by my quick count, was the 10th! ball he's gotten out of the infield so far this year - out of nearly 40 ABs. And that's including his 6 hits - half of which were of the IF variety. Tack that on to his 1-fer-18 from last year (don't have that IF/OF breakdown) and this is not a pretty picture that's emerging here.