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Yikes! Wagner injury update

duan Apr 12 2006 11:02 AM

from WIll Carroll on BP "The Mets are concerned that ace closer Billy Wagner may be turning into Adam Eaton. Wagner’s middle finger has a torn tendon sheath, causing him significant pain when throwing, as it doesn't allow him to get the same “pulldown” on his pitches. That tight backspin is key to his boring fastball; without it, he’s a bit more hittable, has lost about five mph on his fastball, and is having control problems. No one seems to be sure whether the injury is something Wagner will just have to adjust to, whether rest will help, or whether surgery is in his future. This is definitely one to watch--focus on his control to better gauge where this is headed."

Edgy DC Apr 12 2006 11:05 AM

Is this the type of scoop that Carroll tends to get?

soupcan Apr 12 2006 11:08 AM

Meanwhile Wagner is saying that he's 'just too strong' and that's affecting his control. soupcan is skeptical because if he was too strong why is he topping out at 95?

Rotblatt Apr 12 2006 11:18 AM

Huh. Well, I hope our trainers will figure out whether or not Wagner needs surgery soon. Anyone know how long it would take to recover from that? Frankly, if he'll only be out a month or two, we should get it done now and take our chances with Heilman as closer & Sanchez as set-up. Then we'll get a nice little pen pick-me-up around the All-Star Break. Call up Bell (perfect through 2.3 IP, and he's struck out 6 of the 7 batters to face him in AAA--this is after a 1.13 ERA in 8 ST innings) to replace Sanchez's innings, and I honestly think we'll do fine in the short term. We're a better team with a healthy Wagner, but we're a WORSE team with an injured Wagner trying to close out our games. Shades of Looper 2005 all over again.

seawolf17 Apr 12 2006 11:24 AM

Wagner.

Edgy DC Apr 12 2006 11:25 AM

Well, I don't know that there is or isn't more to Wagner's issues than lack of work, but there's more to veloicty than strength. Mike Piazza, I imagine, could arm-wrestle Wagner to dust. Having, or rather feeling, too much power can mess with your form and reduce your control, and, paradoxically, your velocity. That's part of the reason catchers and pitching coaches are always doing that "calm down" motion when they go to the mound.

cooby Apr 12 2006 11:26 AM

If he turns into Looper, I swear I'll start a Bring Back Franco campaign

duan Apr 12 2006 11:32 AM

Edgy DC wrote: Well, I don't know that there is or isn't more to Wagner's issues than lack of work, but there's more to veloicty than strength. Mike Piazza, I imagine, could arm-wrestle Wagner to dust. Having, or rather feeling, too much power can mess with your form and reduce your control, and, paradoxically, your velocity. That's part of the reason catchers and pitching coaches are always doing that "calm down" motion when they go to the mound. Absolutely - there's so much involved in anything like that; my brother bowls wrist spin pretty well in cricket http://www.channel4.com/sport/cricket/analyst/bowling/ana_63.html it's a very complicated action and he's very good except when he gets a bit hyped up and then he starts over ripping it and losing his release point. I can see it in him before he's released the ball.

KC Apr 12 2006 12:07 PM

There's a lot of space between the two hemispheres of running him out there to get work in a psuedo blow-out and being concerned that he needs surgery to become himself again.

Bret Sabermetric Apr 12 2006 12:35 PM Re: Yikes! Wagner injury update

How, exactly, does throwing 32 unnecessary pitches help heal a torn tendon sheath? I wish I understood the therapeutic purpose of this regimen better.

KC Apr 12 2006 12:56 PM

More important than you reminding us that you've made this point already is where does the truth lie? Is he hurt to the point that he'll require surgery or does he need work to get where he needs to be? If it's the latter, those 32 pitches weren't unecessary and if it's the former why is someone who was brought in as our stud reliever being mis-managed already?

Bret Sabermetric Apr 12 2006 01:27 PM

Nothing could be less important than me posting anything, ever. Let's leave it at that, okay?

KC Apr 12 2006 01:34 PM

I think I'm going to start affectionately referring to you as Chubby Checker.

Centerfield Apr 12 2006 03:23 PM

Who is Will Carroll? None of the papers corroborate this. They say Wagner is working out the kinks and that he wants the ball again tonight.

Elster88 Apr 12 2006 04:05 PM

Internet Fanboi or whatever?

Frayed Knot Apr 12 2006 04:09 PM

He's the guy who hadles most of the medical questions over on 'Baseball Prospectus'. He seems to know what he's talking about medical-info wise but I think in this case he may be doing as much speculating here as actually knowing something. It wouldn't be the first time his "prognosis" has gotten itself ahead of the facts. oe: Was Carroll the one who "broke" BP's scoop about Selig's "done-deal" to reinstate Rose?

KC Apr 12 2006 05:59 PM

I'm thinking Sheehan (sp?) is the "scooper". Isn't he the one that goes on ESPNews all the time representing the site?

duan Apr 12 2006 07:10 PM

I think Carroll gets WAY to carried away with gossip and doesn't necessarily have the reporter's savvy to know where spin, fact and insinuation overlap or diverge. Having said that, his 'field' is injury reports and some of the stuff he does is both really informative and on the money. He's also replied personally to about 5 emails that i've sent him which makes me give him the benefit of the doubt a bit too I suppose. Also, don't forget, he's looking ALL the time at players for signs of injuries whereas the average beat reporter wouldn't know what to look for let alone what it might be.