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The Bad Guys Hated Each Other

Edgy DC Apr 13 2006 02:51 PM

The Bad Guys Won still sits on my shelf unread. I'll get to it someday. This guy is writing on intrateam dissension on the British soccer squad. He points out: Members of New York Mets' teams in the late 80's loathed each other, and Jordan and Pippen could not stand Dennis Rodman. Still, they were all too happy to tolerate his eccentricities, so long as he could grab 20 boards and help them secure three NBA titles. Now, I know this is at best the sort of broad generalization that shouldn't be used by a guy brandishing a PhD in the bio at the bottom of his article, but do you even consider it partially true (that is, that the Mets of the time had markedly more internal dislike than a typical team), or are the 1986 Mets just so mythologized that one can use them to prop up almost any thesis?

HahnSolo Apr 13 2006 02:57 PM

He did say "late 80s" not "1986" though they are usually synonymous, I guess. I bet there was some dislike for Jefferies (he qualifies as a late 80s Met), and there were always whispers that teammates grew tired of Carter easily, but I lean toward your second choice above...that they're so mythologized they can be used to promote any thesis.

Edgy DC Apr 13 2006 03:02 PM

I missed that. You're right that he may have been referring to the Jefferies era, but (1) that was more like most of the old guard disliking Jefferies for (among other sins, large and small) replacing Backman, and (2) that wouldn't support his seeming broader point that a team could go far with internal animosity, as the Jefferies-era Mets teams represented the Johnson period in decline.

Bret Sabermetric Apr 13 2006 03:05 PM

Mets were a pretty successful team from 1985-89. Don't pooh pooh the whole period because they won a championship in just one of those seasons. There wasn't a second they weren't a great team from 85 through 89.

Iubitul Apr 13 2006 03:05 PM

When I read that, the first thing I thought of was Randy Myers writing "Are we trying?" on the lineup card under Jefferies' name...

G-Fafif Apr 13 2006 03:58 PM

Two readings of "Bad Guys" (take it off the shelf, Edgy; you won't be sorry) indicated no particular intraMet animus, at least not in '86. Neither in Pearlman's retelling nor in memory was this the Finley A's or the Reggie Yanks. Unless the author of the article in question was really that focused on Myers v. Jefferies three years later, I'm guessing it was just a lazy, uninformed allusion.

Willets Point Apr 13 2006 04:02 PM

Wasn't there a Strawberry/Hernandez fistfight in 1987?

Frayed Knot Apr 13 2006 04:06 PM

"Neither in Pearlman's retelling nor in memory was this the Finley A's or the Reggie Yanks" Otherwise known as Reggie's A's and Reggie's Yankees. Hmmmm, what did both of those teams have in common? I was a bit surprised in Pearlman's retelling about the amount of derision directed Carter's way - although that was essentially true (and maybe even worse) from back in his Expos days. I also never got the impression that the NYM-era insults were true hate as much as just razzing the goofy kid in the front of the classroom. I'm voting for barely-informed allusion also.

Iubitul Apr 13 2006 04:09 PM

Willets Point wrote: Wasn't there a Strawberry/Hernandez fistfight in 1987? IIRC, it was during the taking of the team photo. The going joke was that of course Straw swung and missed since Mex is lefthanded....

G-Fafif Apr 13 2006 04:46 PM

Straw and Keith went at it in spring '89. Wally carped at Darryl's illnesses in '87. Yeah, it wasn't all peaches and cream, but hardly historic in the annals of team vitriol. Twenty-four (in those days) guys work in the same place. Guessing they didn't all go to Cooter's together after they knocked off for the evening.

TheOldMole Apr 13 2006 10:31 PM

I always liked the time when the Dodgers' Garvey - Lopes - Russell - Cey infield was finally broken up, and scribes asked them if there were any tears shed over the breakup of the longest running infield in baseball history. Their response was essentially, Why should there be? We never liked each other much.

Frayed Knot Apr 13 2006 11:09 PM

I think it was Tinker and Evers (of Tinker-Evers-Chance fame) that played together for years yet barely ever spoke because they so disliked each other.

Bret Sabermetric Apr 13 2006 11:27 PM

Frayed Knot wrote: I think it was Tinker and Evers (of Tinker-Evers-Chance fame) that played together for years yet barely ever spoke because they so disliked each other. And Gehrig supposedly stopped speaking to Ruth in the early 1930s.

duan Apr 14 2006 05:58 AM

there's no real tension between Owen & Rooney. There was during the mid 90's a Liverpool v Man Utd clique within the England squad but even that was over blown. The big problem is that Rooney's a not very intelligent lad, who's very good at blowing a lot of wonga. Alex Ferguson will work him round, he's learnt a lot since he couldn't figure out Paul McGrath. There's been a whole load of funny tabloid stories about Rooney, my favourite in terms of sheer ridiculousness is that when at Everton he went into a brothel in Liverpool, and while he was doing his thing word got out on the streets that he was there. A group of about 30 everton fans gathered round the establishment chanting "Rooonnnneyy, Roooooonnneeey". Time up, young Wayne emerged and 'signed a few autographs'