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I feel a Draft, an NFL Draft

PatchyFogg Apr 14 2006 04:26 PM

We had Rick Gosselin from the Dallas Morning News as our guest on my 100% commercial-free, no one makes a dime from it, Long Island Sports Talk radio show last night. I have long considered him to be the most knowledgeable Draft resource out there. Here is the link to the interview: http://hosted.filefront.com/patchyfogg This is by no means an exhaustive transcript of all that was said, but it should give you a good guide. As always, I hope you enjoy and please tell a friend. Thanks --Reggie Bush --The Buzz right now is “What happens to the 3 QB’s? Where do they go?” They have to be placed in the Top 10 to get a fix on the Board. --The Saints at 2 --Jets/Titans & Trading Up --The Titans are the Wild Card as they are definitely taking a QB --Mario Williams --“The NFL Draft is all about measurables. It’s not how you play, but how you look.” --“The Jets can’t lose if they’re looking at Ferguson and Williams at #4.” --Ferguson vs. Ogden and Pace --Comparing the Big 3 QB’s --Vince Young & the Wonderlic Test --A discussion of what the Wonderlic tests --A discussion on Jay Cutler --Where would Alex Smith have gone in this Draft? --We then conduct a Mock Draft for the 1st 10 picks. --A discussion of the Jets’ quarterback situation --Rick believes that it’s a 6-player Draft, followed by Cutler, Young and Huff. He says that there is no consensus 10th guy. --Rick feels that the Draft is soft between 10 and 20, but picks up steam in the 20’s. --Rick says that he has determined that there are 36 players with 1st Round value, with most coming in the 20’s, so teams will have some options in the 20’s. --With 3 picks in the Top 35, Ricks feels that the Jets will get some good players --Rick slots 9 RB’s for the First Day, with a drop off on the second day. --LenDale White --The separation has increased between #1 WR Santonio Holmes and #2 Chad Jackson --It’s a bad year for wide receivers. Rick is not sure that there will be a Top 20 WR, and maybe even only 1 in the First Round. --Giants are looking Defense --Rick expects 6 or 7 CB’s to go in the First Round, along with 4 LB’s and 3 DT’s, so the Giants “should have a couple of good defensive options when they go on the clock.” --RB’s are sliding into the 20’s. Good teams could get good running backs. There should be 5 1st Round RB’s taken, and the Colts will be one of them. --Marcus Vick --Anthony Fasano should go in the 2nd and Maurice Stovall in the 3rd --Rick doesn’t even look at tape; he talks to the NFL personnel guys and develops a consensus Draft Board of “This is what the NFL thinks….” --Brett Favre and Retirement --Terrell Owens in Dallas --Jerry Jones/Jimmy Johnson/Barry Switzer --Rick’s presenting retired Cowboys to the Hall of Fame Committee --Michael Irvin and the Hall --Art Monk --Harry Carson and why Rick changed his mind on him --Rick thinks there is a logjam developing in the Hall vote, and that next year (and maybe even the year after), all 6 finalists should get in. --The so-called bias against the Cowboys in the Hall vote. --Bill Parcells and the Hall --Joe Gibbs and the Hall --Ralph Wilson’s comments on the new breed of owners --The next Commissioner will be strong on the business and global marketing side. --Everything has been on the upside for Paul Tagliabue, with the lone exception of the California situation. --Jeremy Bloom --This is one of the best Returner drafts, he has ever seen. --The Steve Hutchinson contract --Rick considers Josh Huston to be the best kicker available, but predicts that no K or P will be drafted on the First Day.

Nymr83 Apr 16 2006 09:58 PM

I'm very interested in hearing this, but I'm stuck on dialup for the next week+, how long will the file be hosted?

PatchyFogg Apr 17 2006 05:07 PM

To Infinity and beyond.

Vic Sage Apr 27 2006 11:38 AM

do the Jets go with Ferguson, or trade down because of the inherent risks in taking linemen so early in the draft, and the depth of good linemen available this year, so as to pick up more picks? if Leinhart is there, do they trade down to #7 with Oakland, and then take TE Davis at #7?

MFS62 Apr 28 2006 09:43 AM

As a Jet fan since they were the Titans. With so many holes to fill, and plenty draft picks, I just don't want them to do something stupid, like reaching for a player who has "potential" but doesn't fill an immediate need. BTW is it just me, or do you think Mel Keiper looks like an automatronic figure in a Disney theme park? His mouth moves His hair doesn't You hear sound But his lips don't seem to be forming the words we're hearing. Later

Elster88 Apr 28 2006 10:04 AM

As a side note, I will be very glad when the draft is over. I feel like it's been going on all month.

Frayed Knot Apr 28 2006 10:21 AM

But after it's over how is ESPN going to fill that 15 hours/day of programming they've been devoting to it? Oh I know, it'll be the post-draft "insta-analysis"; the art of pretending that it's possible to immediately itemize the winners & losers. There's nothing I hate more from the sports media than "pre-analysis". The NFL draft may lag only behind the Super Bowl in the NON-news to actual news ratio. Actually, this pre-analysis leading up to the draft lasts even longer but at least the opinions solicited are kept mostly to the pigskin nerds and very little to celebrity wannabes. Plus, at least there are multiple questions and some level of complexity to discuss -- as opposed to the SB where they spend 2 weeks trying to find different ways to ask; So, who do ya think gonna win the big game?

Johnny Dickshot Apr 28 2006 11:35 AM

"Who the hell is Mel Kiper Junior?" Still the greatest press-conference line ever, and I don;t even know who said it.

Vic Sage Apr 28 2006 11:36 AM

what is "pre-analysis"? Is that analyzing something before you analyze it? Oh, sure, i know what pre-DRAFT analysis is... but "pre-analysis"? i don't get it.

Frayed Knot Apr 29 2006 12:12 AM

BUSH LOSES!!!! Reggie Bush's agent drives too hard a bargain (wouldn't settle for a measly 7% higher than last year's #1) so Houston says thanks but no and strikes a pre-draft deal with Mario Williams instead. That throws a major wrench into the works and almost certainly assures that one of the QBs will be available to the Jets although rumor has it they're not going to take either Young or Leinhart even if they're still on the board. It might, however, allow them to trade down and maybe still get Freeport's D. Ferguson by dangling the 4th slot to someone (Oakland?) who really does want a QB. And, yes, I realize that pre-analysis is grammatically incorrect - kind of like George Carlin wondering how you "pre-board" an airplane. But I used it anyway because those who beat this kind of stuff into the ground do so with an air of prognostication as if they're analyzing something that's already happened even though it hasn't. - Denver WILL pick Barney Google with the 46th pick - The Eagles defense WILL STOP the running attack ... and so on.

Nymr83 Apr 29 2006 12:50 AM

I like Williams but i read somewhere that most of his sacks came concentrated within less than half his games and against shitty schools. The biggest knock on both Bush and Leinart is that they won't have each other (and the rest of that loaded team) anymore. If i'm the Jets i trade down if i know i can get Ferguson in my new spot, otherwise just take him at 4, it'll get boooooed by the crowd (who have booed every Jets choice except Vilma in recent memory) but its the right move.

GYC Apr 29 2006 08:17 AM

The big rumor flying around now is #4, #29, and #71 for #2, where the Jets would take Bush.

MFS62 Apr 29 2006 09:17 AM

That certainly would put new life into Play Action Pennington. But I fear without an offensive line that can hold its blocks, he still might become a PAP smear on the Meadowlands turf. Later

GYC Apr 29 2006 09:37 AM

The Saints pulled back and are now asking: #4, #29, #35, 2nd round pick next year or #4, #29, 1st rond pick next year Not worth it to move up 2 spots.

KC Apr 29 2006 12:53 PM

Jets got the guy with the coolest first name in the NFL now. Leinhart sat there and looked like someone backed up over his puppy.

MFS62 Apr 29 2006 01:01 PM

Leinert could drop faster than Enron stock did. I like the pick of Brick. It shows that they have a plan to strengthen the team in a number of positions by using all their picks. And looks like they're sticking to it. The best QB in the world can't throw from a prone position. This is a good move. Leinert's (lack of ) arm strength seems to be a major concern. And GB and SF don't need a QB. And Oakland likes Cutler better. Look out belowwwwwww. (At least to the Cards.) Later

Nymr83 Apr 29 2006 02:11 PM

those 2 QBs took a huge fall. lets see what the Jets do at 29m i'm happy to get Ferguson.

Frayed Knot Apr 29 2006 03:30 PM

D'Brickashaw Between his unusual name, the odds that he was surely a major HS star, and the fact that his HS is about 5 miles from where my butt is currently planted you'd think I'd remember something about this guy from his HS days ... but I don't. Of course I don't usually make a habit of reading about HS sports - although I do remember when LI's Wally Szerzbiak was getting all kinds of schoolboy headlines. You just couldn't miss all those consonants in bold type jumping out at you.

Nymr83 Apr 29 2006 04:52 PM

The Jets take a center with the 29th pick, they pick again at #35. Good picks to fill needs by the Jets who didn't let themselves get distracted by big-name low-talent QBs. I'd like a RB with the 35th pick but this is already a good draft.

Elster88 Apr 29 2006 06:07 PM

Frayed Knot wrote: BUSH LOSES!!!! Reggie Bush's agent drives too hard a bargain (wouldn't settle for a measly 7% higher than last year's #1) so Houston says thanks but no and strikes a pre-draft deal with Mario Williams instead. Houston claims it was for football reasons and not because of money or the allegations surrounding Bush's family or anything. They claim it was purely a football decision. Tough to believe after everyone was saying that Bush was the obvious number one.

Elster88 Apr 29 2006 06:08 PM

Nymr83 wrote: The Jets take a center with the 29th pick, they pick again at #35. Good picks to fill needs by the Jets who didn't let themselves get distracted by big-name low-talent QBs. I'd like a RB with the 35th pick but this is already a good draft. Looks like they traded their 35th pick with Washington, though I can't find any news anywhere. I'll check the Jet homepage.

Elster88 Apr 29 2006 06:44 PM

With the 17th pick (49th overall), in the 2nd round....the Jets....select.....Kellen Clemens. Quarterback. From Oregon. [url=http://cbs.sportsline.com/nfl/players/draft/408416]I like what I'm reading.[/url]

Johnny Dickshot Apr 29 2006 06:50 PM

Clemens sucks.

Elster88 Apr 29 2006 06:51 PM

Wait a minute. You're kidding me right??? His name does start with K. Edit: Whew. Maybe not. Birthplace: Burns, OR.

Elster88 Apr 29 2006 06:55 PM

[url=http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/scoutingreports/qb/kellenclemens.html]And a completely different review.[/url]

GYC Apr 29 2006 08:54 PM

Elster88 wrote: ="Nymr83"]The Jets take a center with the 29th pick, they pick again at #35. Good picks to fill needs by the Jets who didn't let themselves get distracted by big-name low-talent QBs. I'd like a RB with the 35th pick but this is already a good draft. Looks like they traded their 35th pick with Washington, though I can't find any news anywhere. I'll check the Jet homepage. They traded #35 for #53, #198, and a 3nd round pick next year. Thank god the Redskins are run by morons. We then traded the #53, #198 and #211 for #49. From #71, we traded down to #76 and added #220. At 76, they took Anthony Schlegel, an ILB from OSU.

Nymr83 Apr 29 2006 09:15 PM

]At 76, they took Anthony Schlegel, an ILB from OSU. Proof that they are going to the 3-4 if you needed proof at all since they already have a MLB they love.

Elster88 Apr 30 2006 11:29 AM

]They traded #35 for #53, #198, and a 3nd round pick next year. Thank god the Redskins are run by morons. We then traded the #53, #198 and #211 for #49. So we traded 35 and 211 for 49 and a 3rd rounder next year. They must have really wanted Clemens' son.

Nymr83 Apr 30 2006 11:59 AM

i was reading 2nd rounder, its actually a 3rd?

HahnSolo Apr 30 2006 12:21 PM

]Strengths: Moves well in the pocket...Very efficient in the short passing game...Displays good mechanics...Throws well on the run...Good touch and timing...Gives his receivers a chance to run after the catch...Smart and a hard worker...A gamer with somewhat of a gunslinger mentality...Mature and a great leader with excellent intangibles. Chad Pennington, anyone?

Iubitul Apr 30 2006 01:36 PM

HahnSolo wrote: ]Strengths: Moves well in the pocket...Very efficient in the short passing game...Displays good mechanics...Throws well on the run...Good touch and timing...Gives his receivers a chance to run after the catch...Smart and a hard worker...A gamer with somewhat of a gunslinger mentality...Mature and a great leader with excellent intangibles. Chad Pennington, anyone? Chad Pennington minus bad shoulder....

Nymr83 Apr 30 2006 02:23 PM

Leinart is a glorified Pennington himself, there simply wasn't a franchise QB in this year's draft. very nice draft by the Jets.

Elster88 May 01 2006 10:41 AM

[url=http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/story/413600p-349704c.html]Deal for Leinart fell short [/url] The Jets view left tackle D'Brickashaw Ferguson as the infrastructure for their offense. And after taking him with the fourth pick, they tried to construct a luxury high-rise around him: Matt Leinart. Not long after picking Ferguson and passing on Leinart, the Daily News has learned, the Jets were furiously working the phones Saturday trying to move back into the top 10 to get the USC quarterback. They held serious discussions with the Lions at No. 9, but were unwilling to meet Detroit's price. If GM Mike Tannenbaum had been able to get Leinart to go along with Ferguson, it would have been the the most productive draft day in Jets' history. Predraft speculation was that the Jets had Vanderbilt's Jay Cutler rated over Leinart, but sources insist the Jets had Leinart listed over Cutler. Leinart was definitely whom the Jets were targeting when negotiating with Detroit. The Lions were willing to move down to the No. 29 spot, the second of the Jets' two No. 1 picks, which they had acquired in the John Abraham trade. The Jets offered that pick, plus their third-round pick at No. 71, for No. 9, clearly not enough. But when the Lions demanded the Jets' second-round pick (35th) in addition to the first- and third-rounders, talks broke down and the Lions selected linebacker Ernie Sims. The cost to move up the 20 spots is more than the 29th and 71st picks, and the Jets surely knew that, but their unwillingless to part with the second-rounder didn't leave any room for negotiating. If the Jets had given up those three picks, the Lions would have had to part with a later pick to make things even on the draft value chart all teams use. At the same time they were talking to the Lions, the Jets called the Cardinals, who were picking 10th. But Arizona had no interest in trading. For good reason, of course. They took Leinart themselves. The Jets never were interested in taking Leinart with the fourth pick. They felt they couldn't pass up Ferguson, who plays the most important position on the offensive line. But the Jets obviously liked Leinart enough that they tried to double-dip in the top 10. Even so, passing on Leinart at No. 4 was a mistake. They could have rectified that by making the trade with Detroit. If the Jets had been able to squeeze the Falcons for their own No. 1 pick (15th) in the Abraham trade - they didn't get enough for him - they would have had enough ammunition to pull off the trade with Detroit. Ironically, the Broncos, who wound up with that Atlanta pick in the three-way Abraham deal, moved up from that spot to the Rams' No. 11 spot and took Cutler. The price: a third-round pick, No. 68. The Jets' chances of getting Leinart improved when the Raiders passed on him at No. 7 to take Texas safety Michael Huff, the player the Lions wanted. The Jets never had to worry about Lions GM Matt Millen taking Leinart. Detroit is still having Joey Harrington nightmares. Detroit was the highest team on the board the Jets called. Fifteen years ago, the Jets desperately tried to trade up for Brett Favre. They couldn't get a deal done and Favre went one spot ahead of them to the Falcons. The Jets took Browning Nagle. If Leinart becomes an All-Pro, the Jets will regret passing on him and then not paying enough when they had a second chance.

Elster88 May 01 2006 10:43 AM

]Fifteen years ago, the Jets desperately tried to trade up for Brett Favre. They couldn't get a deal done and Favre went one spot ahead of them to the Falcons. I didn't know this.

Vic Sage May 01 2006 01:29 PM

The NY sportswriters were jumping on the Jets for not dealing for Leinart, but most of the draftniks in attendance gave the Jets a big ovation for the Ferguson pick. The JETS had that other QB, Klemens, rated as the top of the next tier, and they just didn't feel (and neither did most of the talent evaluators i've read or heard from in recent weeks) that any of the top 3 QBs were blue-chip studs, or that there was that big a gap between them and Klem. They had a plan, and they followed thru on it, and they were NOT held hostage to the "glamorous QB" love affair being indulged in by the media. These are all "character" guys with strong work ethic and could form the nucleus of the offense for the next 10 years. happy happy joy joy! :) Also, their 4th round pick of Brad Smith/QB, Missouri, could give the team a whole new dimension. A guy with that much talent can be used in a variety of ways on offense (WR and RB), defense (CB) and special teams (PR and KR), and i'm curious about how his role evolves. Unfortunately, i think he'll be the end of Bollinger's Jet career, who i've always kind of liked. Leon Washington might also provide some excitement as a 3rd down "scat back" and punt returner, if he survives. He's tiny and quick. We did NOT, however, address the hole created by Abraham's departure, and they'll need to find some FAs who can rush the passer. Which, of course, they are unlikely to do, since its most likely that anybody who had the talent to rush the passer got drafted. I think they are counting too much on the development of Bryan Thomas as a pass rusher off the end.

Nymr83 May 01 2006 01:55 PM

]We did NOT, however, address the hole created by Abraham's departure, and they'll need to find some FAs who can rush the passer. Which, of course, they are unlikely to do, since its most likely that anybody who had the talent to rush the passer got drafted. I think they are counting too much on the development of Bryan Thomas as a pass rusher off the end. That could e next year's goal. the jets had way too many holes to fill them all.

Vic Sage May 01 2006 02:19 PM

agreed. one step at a time. still, i think they through away 4 to 5 picks on "character guys" with little potential. I wish they'd traded up in the 2nd-3rd rounds, and gone for a little less quantity and a little more quality. of course, thats easier said than done, and i'm nitpicking. I'm happy with the draft, overall.

Nymr83 May 01 2006 03:40 PM

The jets needed quantity. They got the 2 guys they needed in round 1 which will help them for years to come. I probably wouldn't have bothered with a QB in rd 2, with Pennington and Ramsey on the roster and Bollinger around too theres just no need and i doubt this guy is really going to be good, he sounds like a polished player who will be at his maximum effectiveness right away but will never be a star. its pretty hard to criticize 2nd day picks, teams just take guys they think they can develop and hope for the best.

PatchyFogg May 05 2006 10:26 AM

We had Giants beat writer Mike Garofalo from the Newark Star-Ledger on with us last night. Here is the link: http://hosted.filefront.com/patchyfogg The interview itself is 37 commercial-free minutes of nothing but Giants talk. As always, thanks for listening.

MFS62 May 05 2006 10:43 AM

Vic Sage wrote: agreed. one step at a time. still, i think they through away 4 to 5 picks on "character guys" with little potential. I'm happy with the draft, overall. Vic, it was more than that. If you read the bios, many, if not all, of the players drafted had made an all-academic team (school, conference or national). And, aside from the first three picks, the rest of the players selected can play many positions. Even the tight end has played H-back and fullback. The DBs have played WR and vice versa. This is the type of players and drafting approach that has made the Patriots so successful. (I hate to admit it) Overall, I'm happy with the draft, too. But I'm still concerned about the lack of an outside/ speed pass rusher. Later

Elster88 May 05 2006 10:49 AM

Lots of team captains too.