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We Hate the Nationals and Stephen Strasburg 2020

G-Fafif Dec 09 2019 12:56 PM

Co-ace of the defending champs agrees to re-sign, reportedly for seven years, $245 million...which reads as insane.

Centerfield Dec 09 2019 12:57 PM Re: We Hate the Nationals and Stephen Strasburg 2020

I saw 7 years, $220, which is much more reasonable.

G-Fafif Dec 09 2019 12:57 PM Re: We Hate the Nationals and Stephen Strasburg 2020

Full no-trade clause for Strasburg.

G-Fafif Dec 09 2019 12:58 PM Re: We Hate the Nationals and Stephen Strasburg 2020

=Centerfield post_id=28011 time=1575921432 user_id=65] I saw 7 years, $220, which is much more reasonable.

It's been updated to the higher figure.

smg58 Dec 09 2019 01:09 PM Re: We Hate the Nationals and Stephen Strasburg 2020

So Cole is getting more than that.

Frayed Knot Dec 09 2019 01:35 PM Re: We Hate the Nationals and Stephen Strasburg 2020

The Nats seem to like to defer money (as they did with Scherzer) so they may be paying him at a lower clip and until 2086 instead of actually giving it all out up front, but that still ... averages out to $35 per - for seven seasons - for a guy turning 32 mid-season next year - who has averaged less than 28 starts/season. Good luck with that. On the other hand there was scuttlebutt out of somewhere the other day saying that the team was resigned to signing Strasburg OR Rendon.

Ceetar Dec 09 2019 01:44 PM Re: We Hate the Nationals and Stephen Strasburg 2020

looks like it's only three years of deferred money this time, right after the end of the contract.

Edgy MD Dec 09 2019 01:45 PM Re: We Hate the Nationals and Stephen Strasburg 2020

Yeah, this is going to go pear-shaped early. And if this cuts Rendon out of the picture, it's probably the wrong call to make right out of the box. I'm not as concerned with what this does to Cole's asking price (Gerritt or Hamels), so much as what it does to Syndergaard's. Looks like it's the first players' market in a few years, though.

Lefty Specialist Dec 09 2019 01:48 PM Re: We Hate the Nationals and Stephen Strasburg 2020

They'll regret that contract. Strasburg is good when he's not injured, but he's injured a lot.

batmagadanleadoff Dec 09 2019 02:50 PM Re: We Hate the Nationals and Stephen Strasburg 2020

Maybe the Nats won't regret the contract. Maybe the richest baseball owners have so much goddamn money, more than ever, that maybe they're not running their teams with such a rigid eye on the balance sheet. Maybe some of them just want to win at all costs. Meanwhile, some people here are contorting themselves into triple pretzels trying to convince everybody, against all logic that Jeff Wilpon is either a competent owner or that he doesn't matter to the Mets fate and that Steven Cohen doesn't really want to take over the Mets.

41Forever Dec 09 2019 02:58 PM Re: We Hate the Nationals and Stephen Strasburg 2020

=smg58 post_id=28014 time=1575922160 user_id=62] So Cole is getting more than that.

We should lock up Syndergaard, and do it now.

Edgy MD Dec 09 2019 03:40 PM Re: We Hate the Nationals and Stephen Strasburg 2020

Meanwhile, some people here are contorting themselves into triple pretzels trying to convince everybody, against all logic that Jeff Wilpon is either a competent owner or that he doesn't matter to the Mets fate and that Steven Cohen doesn't really want to take over the Mets. Don't "some people here," please.

batmagadanleadoff Dec 09 2019 03:48 PM Re: We Hate the Nationals and Stephen Strasburg 2020

Edgy MD wrote: Meanwhile, some people here are contorting themselves into triple pretzels trying to convince everybody, against all logic that Jeff Wilpon is either a competent owner or that he doesn't matter to the Mets fate and that Steven Cohen doesn't really want to take over the Mets. Don't "some people here," please. It's so easy. Because Syndrrgaard has no idea what Wheeler and Strasburg just got paid and that Steven Cohen and all of his money is coming. I think that just since last week, Syndergaard made another $5M a year by doing nothing.

bmfc1 Dec 09 2019 04:16 PM Re: We Hate the Nationals and Stephen Strasburg 2020

I don't care if the MFNs eventually regret it unless they regret it from Opening Day 2020. For now, and at least the near future, the f'ing World Champs still have Strasburg, Scherzer and Corbin. Even if they lose Rendon they can sign Donaldson. This, plus Wheeler to PHI and all of ATLs signings, make it that much harder for the 86-win Mets to compete with what might be the same roster, plus Marisnick, a RP, a 5th SP, minus Wheeler. Saul Cohen can't take over soon enough.

kcmets Dec 09 2019 04:29 PM Re: We Hate the Nationals and Stephen Strasburg 2020

It's gonna be 3-4-5 more years of general suck for the Mets the way the Nats and the Phil's are spending. At least they'll likely place above the Marlins most years, so there's that.

Ceetar Dec 09 2019 05:11 PM Re: We Hate the Nationals and Stephen Strasburg 2020

Mets are still better than the Phillies. The Nationals are claiming they can't afford Rendon, they're certainly not just going to 'get' donaldson who's gonna sign a big contract too. 'all of Atlanta's signings'? meh. There's really no expectation the Mets are coming back with the same roster either. Hell, even Lowrie and Cespedes are starting at least much healthier than last year. A full year of Stroman and no disaster Vargas April.

batmagadanleadoff Dec 09 2019 05:28 PM Re: We Hate the Nationals and Stephen Strasburg 2020

Here we go again. Every Met who sucked last season is gonna be great in 2020. And every Met who was great is gonna be even greater. And no, David Wright won't hit 50 homers next season. Don't be ridiculous. But Yoenis will.

Edgy MD Dec 09 2019 07:05 PM Re: We Hate the Nationals and Stephen Strasburg 2020

Well, I asked please.

41Forever Dec 10 2019 06:18 AM Re: We Hate the Nationals and Stephen Strasburg 2020

Average salary of $35 million a year. Incredible.

Ceetar Dec 10 2019 07:00 AM Re: We Hate the Nationals and Stephen Strasburg 2020

=batmagadanleadoff post_id=28029 time=1575937691 user_id=68] Here we go again. Every Met who sucked last season is gonna be great in 2020. And every Met who was great is gonna be even greater. And no, David Wright won't hit 50 homers next season. Don't be ridiculous. But Yoenis will.

do you even think before you spew?



Lowrie ended the season healthy and we've had confirmation that Cespedes can at least swing a bat and can walk. Those things are true, but the most salient point here





is it's December 10th. and nearly 4 months before the season starts. I've already suggested how a few players will be different, but by the season opener? it might be as high as 25-30% different!

Edgy MD Dec 10 2019 07:22 AM Re: We Hate the Nationals and Stephen Strasburg 2020

Anyhow, I like the new look division rival threads. I looked at the Marlins roster, though, and I could hardly find anyone I know well enough to hate on.

Centerfield Dec 10 2019 08:24 AM Re: We Hate the Nationals and Stephen Strasburg 2020

Here we go again. Every Met who sucked last season is gonna be great in 2020. And every Met who was great is gonna be even greater. And no, David Wright won't hit 50 homers next season. Don't be ridiculous. But Yoenis will. I tend to agree with him. I think the second half record is a true indication of the talent level and the first half should be disregarded. I know Zack Wheeler won 5 games and pitched to a 2.83 ERA in the second half and he'll be doing that for Philly now, but I don't think he was a significant factor. Stroman, who's not as good as Wheeler, will replace Zack, and Lugo, who's not as good as a starter as Stroman, will replace Stroman. Gsellman, who's not as good as Lugo, will replace Lugo, and we we will round out the pen with "depth" pieces.

LWFS Dec 10 2019 08:33 AM Re: We Hate the Nationals and Stephen Strasburg 2020

=batmagadanleadoff post_id=28022 time=1575928219 user_id=68] Maybe the Nats won't regret the contract. Maybe the richest baseball owners have so much goddamn money, more than ever, that maybe they're not running their teams with such a rigid eye on the balance sheet. Maybe some of them just want to win at all costs. Meanwhile, some people here are contorting themselves into triple pretzels trying to convince everybody, against all logic that Jeff Wilpon is either a competent owner or that he doesn't matter to the Mets fate and that Steven Cohen doesn't really want to take over the Mets.

Rail all you want against the competence of this ownership group/front office-- Casey knows, I'll eagerly cosign a lot of it-- but a two-time Cy Young who's made 30 starts in 4 of the last 5 years (~6.2 bWAR/year) for 5/$137M seems like a damn good deal compared to 7/$245M for a guy who's made 30 starts once in that same time (at a 4.1 bWAR/year clip), who is the same age (see also: 5/$118M for Wheels).



Splashing the pot on Ryu AND Porcello (loser is super-long bullpen dude) would be cool. I feel like just getting the latter is far more Metsy a way to go.

batmagadanleadoff Dec 10 2019 10:57 AM Re: We Hate the Nationals and Stephen Strasburg 2020

=LWFS post_id=28055 time=1575992006 user_id=84] =batmagadanleadoff post_id=28022 time=1575928219 user_id=68] Maybe the Nats won't regret the contract. Maybe the richest baseball owners have so much goddamn money, more than ever, that maybe they're not running their teams with such a rigid eye on the balance sheet. Maybe some of them just want to win at all costs. Meanwhile, some people here are contorting themselves into triple pretzels trying to convince everybody, against all logic that Jeff Wilpon is either a competent owner or that he doesn't matter to the Mets fate and that Steven Cohen doesn't really want to take over the Mets.

Rail all you want against the competence of this ownership group/front office-- Casey knows, I'll eagerly cosign a lot of it-- but a two-time Cy Young who's made 30 starts in 4 of the last 5 years (~6.2 bWAR/year) for 5/$137M seems like a damn good deal compared to 7/$245M for a guy who's made 30 starts once in that same time (at a 4.1 bWAR/year clip), who is the same age (see also: 5/$118M for Wheels)....








You can disagree with my post but pointing out that the deGrom contract is a better value than Strasburg's new deal isn't the way to challenge it. Because that's kind'a my whole point. That maybe, Mark Lerner wants to win another one and doesn't care how much he has to spend. If Lerner's paying Strasburg $245M for seven years, that likely means that some other team was willing to pay Strasburg almost the same. So that's the market for that kind of pitching talent. And $20M a year extra is toy Monopoly money to a guy like Lerner, who's worth almost 10 blllion dollars. Think about that for a few seconds before you continue reading, so as to really grasp just how much money these guys at the top of the money pyramid have, which you know anyways. Lerner can afford to lose $20M and get absolutely nothing for his $20M more than most people could afford to lose $20K. In fact, and I don't know if this is true, but I wouldn't be surprised if most American adults don't even have $20K in savings. And even so, someone with, say $45K in the bank can't afford to lose almost half of his nut. Maybe baseball's becoming a vanity game for its wealthiest owners. If so, the Mets and their incompetent owners are even worse off than we could imagine, at least until Steve Cohen and his cash infusion arrive.



Meanwhile, the Mets strategy will continue to be to compete against teams that have elite top tier talent with second tier talent. Yeah deGrom's a superduperstar but when a team has more than one of those, it's likely that they tapped the top of the FA market. The Mets have an excellent pitching staff but the Nats had three of the top 10 pitchers last year and Scherzer is about as good, if not maybe better than deGrom.

Ceetar Dec 10 2019 11:50 AM Re: We Hate the Nationals and Stephen Strasburg 2020

=batmagadanleadoff post_id=28066 time=1576000645 user_id=68] Meanwhile, the Mets strategy will continue to be to compete against teams that have elite top tier talent with second tier talent. Yeah deGrom's a superduperstar but when a team has more than one of those, it's likely that they tapped the top of the FA market. The Mets have an excellent pitching staff but the Nats had three of the top 10 pitchers last year and Scherzer is about as good, if not maybe better than deGrom.

by what Metric? The Mets top three lined up pretty well. Hell, they were projected to be a better pitching staff last year too. That seems pretty competitive.



Sure, maybe now Stroman is in the next tier. Matz is projected above the rest of the Nats muck. Hell, even Porcello is. It's a quick falloff and their bullpen ain't exactly stacked.



But sure, they're in a different class if everything goes right for them again.

batmagadanleadoff Dec 10 2019 12:08 PM Re: We Hate the Nationals and Stephen Strasburg 2020

by what Metric? The Mets top three lined up pretty well. Hell, they were projected to be a better pitching staff last year too. That seems pretty competitive. I went by Bill James's world rankings! http://www.billjamesonline.com/polls_ratings/starting_pitcher_rankings/ The Mets top three -deGrom, Wheeler and Syndergaard, were ranked 3, 38 and 39 respectively. Pretty darn good. But the Nats top three were, collectively, all-time world class out of their minds last year -- Scherzer (4), Strasburg (5) and Corbin (9). The Nats third best pitcher would be the staff ace on just about every other team out there. The Nats run differential was about 100 runs better than the Mets. The Mets appear to be a good team. But the goal is to win the highly competitive NL East. And the Mets start the off-season by replacing Wheeler with fringy outfielder Marisnick. And Cano is gonna be a year older while getting most of the PT because Fred Wilpon.

Edgy MD Dec 10 2019 12:57 PM Re: We Hate the Nationals and Stephen Strasburg 2020

For what it's worth, those rankings don't represent last season, so much as career trends. They're designed to resemble golf and tennis rankings, so if a guy is a top pitcher is at the top in 2018, but merely average in 2019, he still won't fall out of the top 12 or so. Which isn't to say those three weren't terrific. They were.

batmagadanleadoff Dec 10 2019 01:05 PM Re: We Hate the Nationals and Stephen Strasburg 2020

I know. Those rankings can surely be picked at, but what metric can't? The rankings serve as a quick reliable source to assess where a pitcher stands. And most of the time, what a pitcher did two or three years ago still matters. One can quibble with whether deGrom really is just the third best pitcher when he's the two-time reigning Cy winner but there's no getting around just how awesome the Nats front end of the rotation was last season.

bmfc1 Dec 12 2019 05:47 AM Re: We Hate the Nationals and Stephen Strasburg 2020

Watch Josh Donaldson who hit 235 HRs for ATL against the Mets last season. Washington wants him to play 3B. Hopefully, someone else will get him. Texas and Minnesota are looking at him, too. Side note: when researching for this post, I should have been more specific in my Twitter search: https://twitter.com/sukandaersiba11/status/1205105057089368066

Frayed Knot Dec 15 2019 05:56 AM Re: We Hate the Nationals and Stephen Strasburg 2020

Well, whether it's going to be Donaldson or someone else, Washington is going to have to do something with their infield because right now it consists of SS Trea Turner and ... no one. Rendon is obviously gone from 3rd. 2nd base last season was shared by a trio of 30-somethings -- Brian Dozier, Howie Kendrick, Asdrubal Cabrera -- all of whom are FAs. Kendrick had what was By Far the best offensive season of his career in 2019 [142 OPS+, best prior was 126 back in 2011 for LAA] but Rizzo is likely smart enough to know not to count on that again, plus he'll turn 36 next season and is a significant defensive liability these days. They may try to keep him, but I can't see it as an everyday 2B. And at 1st base the oft-injured (one full-ish season since 2013) Ryan Zimmerman (36) has finally had his contract run out and the Nats also chose the buy-out on Matt Adams' contract when he failed to repeat his short-term success of 2018 [118 OPS+ plummeted to 83] so he too is a FA At one point they had hopes for Wilmer Difo, who plays everywhere (man), but he's no longer young (28 by O.D.) nor improving, nor shown himself to be particularly good at this baseball thing [OPS+ = 73 over 1K ML ABs] And remember that this is a club coming off -- a WS championship, yes -- but also a good-tho-hardly-great 93-win season who finished with a three week span that finally was the exact opposite of their previous October mojo. And we haven't even brought up the bullpen. iow, they got work to do. The other thing that strikes me in the wake of the Rendon signing is: him and Trout likely back-to-back in the same lineup ... Holy Shit!!

bmfc1 Dec 15 2019 08:07 AM Re: We Hate the Nationals and Stephen Strasburg 2020

This is all true but Nationals PR man Tom Boswell says that their fans shouldn't worry: https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/nationals/anthony-rendon-and-the-nats-made-sensible-decisions-why-does-it-feel-so-lousy/2019/12/12/74ce201a-1d24-11ea-b4c1-fd0d91b60d9e_story.html

G-Fafif Jan 03 2020 03:15 PM Re: We Hate the Nationals and Stephen Strasburg 2020 Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Jan 03 2020 05:55 PM

Nats sign Starlin Castro, meaning the former Cub, MFY and Fish has never played for a team I can even vaguely tolerate.

Johnny Lunchbucket Jan 03 2020 05:00 PM Re: We Hate the Nationals and Stephen Strasburg 2020

My reaction exactly

bmfc1 Jan 04 2020 07:48 AM Re: We Hate the Nationals and Stephen Strasburg 2020

Here's an objective look (as opposed to Tom Boswell's latest column which isn't even worth a link) at the state of the DWCMFN infield. If Donaldson goes elsewhere ("hey Josh, Minnesota has this great mall, go there!"), they could start the season with some combination of Zimmerman/Kendrick/Castro/Cabrera (just signed)/Adams (not signed)/Dozier/C. Kieboom and even Todd Frazier, around with the excellent Trea Turner. https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2020/01/03/nats-starlin-castro-agree-deal-where-he-plays-could-depend-josh-donaldson/

G-Fafif Jan 06 2020 02:10 PM Re: We Hate the Nationals and Stephen Strasburg 2020

Daniel Hudson returns for two more years of Gnatitude.

G-Fafif Jan 06 2020 03:33 PM Re: We Hate the Nationals and Stephen Strasburg 2020

The same hateful defending world champions have signed Eric Thames, who developed the innovative "Thames on Nine" UK programming on WOR-TV in the '70s.

G-Fafif Jan 24 2020 08:12 PM Re: We Hate the Nationals and Stephen Strasburg 2020

Ryan Zimmerman goes back to the Nationals.

G-Fafif Jan 24 2020 08:21 PM Re: We Hate the Nationals and Stephen Strasburg 2020

Wellington Castillo with the Spring Training invite, too.

Edgy MD Jan 25 2020 05:53 PM Re: We Hate the Nationals and Stephen Strasburg 2020

Fact: In three seasons in the KBO, Eric Thames slugged .720. SEVEN-TWENTY!! OVER THREE SEASONS!!

MFS62 Jan 26 2020 09:21 AM Re: We Hate the Nationals and Stephen Strasburg 2020

Do we have to hate the Nationals and Stephen Strasburg at the same time, or can we hate them separately? Later

bmfc1 Jan 26 2020 04:27 PM Re: We Hate the Nationals and Stephen Strasburg 2020

MFS62, you can hate them any way you want so long as you do with an intense, burning, irrational passion.

MFS62 Jan 26 2020 05:21 PM Re: We Hate the Nationals and Stephen Strasburg 2020

=bmfc1 post_id=30506 time=1580081254 user_id=73] MFS62, you can hate them any way you want so long as you do with an intense, burning, irrational passion.

No problem. :)

Later

G-Fafif Jun 29 2020 01:33 PM Re: We Hate the Nationals and Stephen Strasburg 2020

We can hate the Nats, but can we blame Ryan Zimmerman for opting out of the season ahead? https://twitter.com/caa_baseball/status/1277684964667121667?s=21

G-Fafif Jun 29 2020 01:38 PM Re: We Hate the Nationals and Stephen Strasburg 2020

Joe Ross also says see ya in ‘21.

Ceetar Jun 29 2020 01:43 PM Re: We Hate the Nationals and Stephen Strasburg 2020

might be it for Zimmerman, period.

Frayed Knot Jun 29 2020 01:51 PM Re: We Hate the Nationals and Stephen Strasburg 2020

Yeah, I was thinking that 2019 was going to be the end of the line for Zimmerman ... at least with the Nats They got great use out of him as their first ever 1st round draft pick (and a semi-local from SE Virginia) but age and injuries were taking their toll on him just as his long-term contract was ending. But they re-upped him in January although for just one year at $2 million (down from a peak of $18) so both sides thought it worth a flyer. Turns 36 in September so, yeah, finding a deal next year if he wants one will be tougher still.

G-Fafif Jul 03 2020 12:48 PM Re: We Hate the Nationals and Stephen Strasburg 2020

Wellington Castillo opts out.

Frayed Knot Jul 03 2020 12:51 PM Re: We Hate the Nationals and Stephen Strasburg 2020

It seems like most of the players who have opted out to date either are, or were at one time, Nationals: Zimmerman, Desmond, Joe Ross, and now Castillo (even though he's really just a paper Nat at this point) Must be a DC thing.

Fman99 Jul 03 2020 08:07 PM Re: We Hate the Nationals and Stephen Strasburg 2020

At least the Covid shut down their 2020 victory lap as defending champions way short. So there's that.

bmfc1 Jul 04 2020 06:14 AM Re: We Hate the Nationals and Stephen Strasburg 2020

=Fman99 post_id=39841 time=1593828421 user_id=86] At least the Covid shut down their 2020 victory lap as defending champions way short. So there's that.

They've noticed and their fans have noticed. Even in ST, before CV, they bitched that the Astros had more reporters at their shared facility. Presently, their fans are already upset that no one will be there for the flag raising, etc. A Nationals fan told that he doesn't want there to be MLB this year so the Nationals are still the defending champions when it really counts. So in sum, despite a championship, the Nationals and their fans are keeping it classy.