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Poor-Sell-Oh

Centerfield Dec 12 2019 07:15 AM

One year deal. Per Ken Rosenthal.

41Forever Dec 12 2019 07:19 AM Re: Poor-Sell-Oh Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Dec 12 2019 07:24 AM

=Centerfield post_id=28246 time=1576160115 user_id=65] One year deal. Per Ken Rosenthal.

Ken Rosenthal @Ken_Rosenthal Additions of Porcello, Wacha give #Mets depth to possibly move a starter, perhaps in combination with a high-priced player in his walk year - Lowrie ($9M) or, in a much less likely scenario, Cespedes ($29.5M). Goal would be to address other needs - a young catcher, for example.

Deal a started? Is Porcello an upgrade over Matz? Stroman?



Interesting player. First round pick, one year in the minors.

smg58 Dec 12 2019 07:21 AM Re: Poor-Sell-Oh

Awesome one season and eh for the other 10. Appears to be heading in the wrong direction. Well at least it makes the Wacha signing look like a good depth signing. But it doesn't come close to replacing Wheeler.

smg58 Dec 12 2019 07:24 AM Re: Poor-Sell-Oh

=41Forever post_id=28247 time=1576160381 user_id=69] =Centerfield post_id=28246 time=1576160115 user_id=65] One year deal. Per Ken Rosenthal.

[TWEET]Ken Rosenthal

@Ken_Rosenthal

·

3m

Additions of Porcello, Wacha give #Mets depth to possibly move a starter, perhaps in combination with a high-priced player in his walk year - Lowrie ($9M) or, in a much less likely scenario, Cespedes ($29.5M). Goal would be to address other needs - a young catcher, for example.[/TWEET]


Rosenthal should just stop. Our biggest need was starting pitching, which has NOT been adequately addressed, and now we're going to make our rotation even worse just to move Lowrie's contract? Oh, we might get a catcher out of it. Seriously?

41Forever Dec 12 2019 07:26 AM Re: Poor-Sell-Oh

I think the way they are looking at is is Stroman replaces Wheeler, and Porcello/Wacha replaces Vargas.

MFS62 Dec 12 2019 07:28 AM Re: Poor-Sell-Oh

If it gives them flexibility to do other things, and keeps innings away from the still soft middle of the bullpen, it can't hurt. Later

Lefty Specialist Dec 12 2019 07:57 AM Re: Poor-Sell-Oh

Hmm. I guess Wacha is the swing man out of the bullpen now? Porcello's on the toboggan ride downhill, too. I dunno, I'm confused.

LWFS Dec 12 2019 08:00 AM Re: Poor-Sell-Oh

He's been pretty awful in odd years, and good-to-very-good in even years. So... he's due?

Johnny Lunchbucket Dec 12 2019 08:00 AM Re: Poor-Sell-Oh

OK for a flyer I guess. Will replace Panik and Frazier as obligatory "local guy." Looking at his career stats what jumps out is leading the AL in victories in 2016 and in losses in 2017.

LWFS Dec 12 2019 08:03 AM Re: Poor-Sell-Oh

Making the same dollhairs as Jed Lowrie. Gun to head... who gives us more value this year(directly or indirectly), d'ya think?

Gwreck Dec 12 2019 08:04 AM Re: Poor-Sell-Oh

Seems like another potentially useful part but not the upgrade the team requires to be competitive.

MFS62 Dec 12 2019 08:07 AM Re: Poor-Sell-Oh

Johnny Lunchbucket wrote: OK for a flyer I guess. Will replace Panik and Frazier as obligatory "local guy." Looking at his career stats what jumps out is leading the AL in victories in 2016 and in losses in 2017. He joins Steve Carlton and Phil Niekro as pitchers who have led their league in both wins and losses (Niekro did both in 1979). Later

Vic Sage Dec 12 2019 08:10 AM Re: Poor-Sell-Oh

Johnny Lunchbucket wrote: OK for a flyer I guess. a flyer shouldn't cost $10m.

Ceetar Dec 12 2019 08:12 AM Re: Poor-Sell-Oh

rough glance suggests record high fastball usage last year. Record low sinkers. I don't really know what to make of that. grip/break/juiced ball thing? He's got a 10+ year streak of basically being at least league average. That's actually immensely valuable and also Mike Pelfrey level infuriating. (Pelf did the odd/even year thing for a while too) Depending how 2020 turns out Jeremy Hefner might really make a name for himself.

Edgy MD Dec 12 2019 08:20 AM Re: Poor-Sell-Oh

=smg58 post_id=28249 time=1576160677 user_id=62]Rosenthal should just stop. Our biggest need was starting pitching, which has NOT been adequately addressed, and now we're going to make our rotation even worse just to move Lowrie's contract?

I disagree pretty readily that the team's biggest offseason need is or was starting pitching.

kcmets Dec 12 2019 08:34 AM Re: Poor-Sell-Oh

Splendid thread title, btw...

bmfc1 Dec 12 2019 09:22 AM Re: Poor-Sell-Oh

Having 6 SPs is not too much so you can trade one of them, especially when one (Wacha) has had injuries in the last two years. Peter Gammons speaks of Porcello's intellect for pitching so he will be a good Gelbs interview. You know that he will do everything he can for a big season so he can make even more money as a FA after next season.

Johnny Lunchbucket Dec 12 2019 09:29 AM Re: Poor-Sell-Oh

Vic Sage wrote: Johnny Lunchbucket wrote: OK for a flyer I guess. a flyer shouldn't cost $10m. Who cares. It's still a low-risk flyer as I see it

A Boy Named Seo Dec 12 2019 09:31 AM Re: Poor-Sell-Oh

The Mets must have discovered that the new market inefficiency are dudes coming off career lows in K/9 and velocity and career highs in ERA. The Mets must have discovered that the new market inefficiency are dudes coming off career lows in K/9 and velocity and career highs in ERA. The Dodgers have routinely employed 7 or 8 starting pitchers the last few seasons, to cover for injuries and allow the team to manage workloads. I love that approach, but damn, Wacha and Porcello don't exactly scream "quality" to go along with that necessary quantity.

Lefty Specialist Dec 12 2019 09:33 AM Re: Poor-Sell-Oh

Edgy MD wrote: I disagree pretty readily that the team's biggest offseason need is or was starting pitching. Yeah, I'd place the 'campfire in the tinder-dry forest' bullpen as Job 1.

batmagadanleadoff Dec 12 2019 10:51 AM Re: Poor-Sell-Oh

Sigh.More broken toys for Xmas. What next: Pete Gray?

Ceetar Dec 12 2019 10:57 AM Re: Poor-Sell-Oh

better than a broken record

batmagadanleadoff Dec 12 2019 11:14 AM Re: Poor-Sell-Oh

=Ceetar post_id=28279 time=1576173427 user_id=102] better than a broken record

That's what you are. I'm waiting for your post where Porcello's gonna win 25 games and if it's the Mets, it has to be good.

batmagadanleadoff Dec 12 2019 11:19 AM Re: Poor-Sell-Oh

=batmagadanleadoff post_id=28282 time=1576174487 user_id=68] =Ceetar post_id=28279 time=1576173427 user_id=102] better than a broken record

That's what you are. I'm waiting for your post where Porcello's gonna win 25 games and if it's the Mets, it has to be good.


It's the Mets who are the broken record. It's what they do. Every season. Pick up defects like Wacha and Porcello when Cole, Strasburg and Wheeler were available, then count on people like you to cover for them with contorted analysis.



There's a reason why they have two first place finishes in 31 seasons. That's no accident or bad luck. And if it seems like I'm talking about it again, that's only because the owners just did it again.

Ceetar Dec 12 2019 11:30 AM Re: Poor-Sell-Oh

broken record. you say the same things, and yet I'm the one over here happily enjoying baseball and the Mets. It always sounds like i'm saying the same things because you've decided you're going to needlessly exaggerate every modicum of positivity to the extreme. "long stretch of being league average, which is useful" becomes 25 game winner, like pitcher wins even means anything. But go ahead, tell me how re-signing a pitcher you already had and letting your star 3B go is an upgrade.

batmagadanleadoff Dec 12 2019 11:34 AM Re: Poor-Sell-Oh

=Ceetar post_id=28285 time=1576175424 user_id=102] But go ahead, tell me how re-signing a pitcher you already had and letting your star 3B go is an upgrade.

Because the instant that Wheeler's contract expired, he was no longer a Met. Or he was as much a Met as he was a Yankee or a Royal or a Dodger.

batmagadanleadoff Dec 12 2019 11:39 AM Re: Poor-Sell-Oh

=Ceetar post_id=28285 time=1576175424 user_id=102] , and yet I'm the one over here happily enjoying baseball and the Mets.

So what? The Wilpons are good owners because their ownership doesn't bother you? What the hell does your personal enjoyment of things have to do with an objective reality based look at things?

Centerfield Dec 12 2019 11:47 AM Re: Poor-Sell-Oh

=41Forever post_id=28247 time=1576160381 user_id=69] =Centerfield post_id=28246 time=1576160115 user_id=65] One year deal. Per Ken Rosenthal.

Ken Rosenthal @Ken_Rosenthal Additions of Porcello, Wacha give #Mets depth to possibly move a starter, perhaps in combination with a high-priced player in his walk year - Lowrie ($9M) or, in a much less likely scenario, Cespedes ($29.5M). Goal would be to address other needs - a young catcher, for example.

Deal a started? Is Porcello an upgrade over Matz? Stroman?



Interesting player. First round pick, one year in the minors.


Dude. Porcello is not even an upgrade over Vargas. Neither is Wacha.

batmagadanleadoff Dec 12 2019 11:53 AM Re: Poor-Sell-Oh

=batmagadanleadoff post_id=28286 time=1576175694 user_id=68] =Ceetar post_id=28285 time=1576175424 user_id=102] But go ahead, tell me how re-signing a pitcher you already had and letting your star 3B go is an upgrade.

Because the instant that Wheeler's contract expired, he was no longer a Met. Or he was as much a Met as he was a Yankee or a Royal or a Dodger.

So if signing Wheeler doesn't count as an upgrade, then by that same nutty logic, not signing Wheeler shouldn't count as a downgrade, either.

Ceetar Dec 12 2019 12:10 PM Re: Poor-Sell-Oh

continue to say I said things I didn't say, go ahead. oh and pretend you're objective, sure. That's believable. Why are you talking about Wheeler? The Mets rotation is probably slightly worse overall right now than it was last year, but not noticeably so and obviously things don't play exactly to talent, could go either way, though a guy like Porcello is pretty steady, which is a hell of a lot more than you could say about Jason Vargas. Everyone keeps spouting off about 'competitive in the division' like the Mets aren't already there, and are making offseason moves. Maybe not the "potentially dominate the division" ones that signing Rendon and Cole and Ryu would've been, but you're not being objective if you don't think, at this moment, the Mets are a reasonable guess to win the division/make the playoffs.

Edgy MD Dec 12 2019 12:21 PM Re: Poor-Sell-Oh

I think it's pretty good bet to count Porky+Wacha in the rotation, if that's how it shakes out, as an upgrade over Jason Vargas.

kcmets Dec 12 2019 12:26 PM Re: Poor-Sell-Oh

I have to go read Barley Prose because if Ceets is thinking division win/making playoffs I need to be drinking what he be drinkin'.

Ceetar Dec 12 2019 12:30 PM Re: Poor-Sell-Oh

Plenty of offseason left. Things still to be done. But yeah, it'd be a not-shocking result. hell, Fangraphs depth charts (on the right) has the Mets with the most fWAR in the NL East right now. [url]https://www.fangraphs.com/depthcharts.aspx?position=ALL&teamid=0

Centerfield Dec 12 2019 12:40 PM Re: Poor-Sell-Oh

Edgy MD wrote: I think it's pretty good bet to count Porky+Wacha in the rotation, if that's how it shakes out, as an upgrade over Jason Vargas. Vargas: IP: 149.2 ERA: 4.51 FIP: 4.76 WHIP: 1.363 Wacha: IP: 126.2 ERA: 4.76 FIP: 5.61 WHIP: 1.563 Porcello: IP: 174.1 ERA: 5.52 FIP: 4.76 WHIP: 1.394 Is it a good bet? Vargas outpitched both in 2019. Wacha with his terrible WHIP wasn't close. Porcello's peripherals were similar to Vargas, but his ERA was much higher. I guess that could be bad luck? Both are young, so they have that going for them, but Wacha has a recurring shoulder injury and is trending downward, so I don't know if I agree with you there. Porcello is more up and down doing that Saberhagen thing. I read that his advanced stats were bad (hard contact rate, spin rate etc). But I guess that could be from the funky ball last year. Point is, both guys were worse than Vargas 2019. And that's total 2019, not NYM Vargas. It's a stupidly low bar to clear, and I'm not sure that either guy does it.

Ceetar Dec 12 2019 12:46 PM Re: Poor-Sell-Oh

Steamer thinks so. 0.8 for Vargas, 1.1 for Wacha, 1.8 for Porcello. fWAR.

batmagadanleadoff Dec 12 2019 12:52 PM Re: Poor-Sell-Oh

=Ceetar post_id=28303 time=1576180018 user_id=102] Steamer thinks so. 0.8 for Vargas, 1.1 for Wacha, 1.8 for Porcello. fWAR.

And Wheeler?

Centerfield Dec 12 2019 12:56 PM Re: Poor-Sell-Oh

=Ceetar post_id=28303 time=1576180018 user_id=102] Steamer thinks so. 0.8 for Vargas, 1.1 for Wacha, 1.8 for Porcello. fWAR.

Vargas was 1.2 last year (1.6 for the NYM).



When I say upgrade over Vargas, I mean upgrade over the guy we had.



I don't care what Vargas does in 2020.

Edgy MD Dec 12 2019 01:03 PM Re: Poor-Sell-Oh

=Centerfield post_id=28301 time=1576179645 user_id=65]Point is, both guys were worse than Vargas 2019. And that's total 2019, not NYM Vargas. It's a stupidly low bar to clear, and I'm not sure that either guy does it.

Yeah, I'll go with Steamer too: 0.8 for Vargas, 1.1 for Wacha, 1.8 for Porcello.



That guarantees nothing, but it sure make me feel more comfortable putting money down. Perhaps the last guy I'm going to regret losing is Jason Vargas.

Ceetar Dec 12 2019 01:22 PM Re: Poor-Sell-Oh

=batmagadanleadoff post_id=28304 time=1576180345 user_id=68] =Ceetar post_id=28303 time=1576180018 user_id=102] Steamer thinks so. 0.8 for Vargas, 1.1 for Wacha, 1.8 for Porcello. fWAR.

And Wheeler?




3.3 and I think that's underselling him honestly. (4.2, 4.7 the last two)



1.2,0.9,4.7 were Vargas, Stro and Wheelz last year.



1.8 for Porcello, 3.2 for Stro this year puts you at like 7 last year versus 5 this.



It's a slight downgrade, but maybe you can limited the 8 Font/Lockett/Flexen starts with Wacha.



Plus straight WAR comparisons aren't really that useful, and having 6 guys spreads it out a bit anyway, but maybe this bumps some backend bullpen IP out which is definitely useful. Hell, Gagnon and Bashor were -1.6

Centerfield Dec 12 2019 01:23 PM Re: Poor-Sell-Oh

Come on guys. The 2020 projections for Vargas are relevant if I am advocating to bring back Vargas. If I said "Wacha is terrible. I would have spent that money on Vargas". Then you use this argument. That's not what I said. I said, "I'm not sure he's an upgrade over Vargas". Then you look at what Vargas did for us in 2019. 1.6 for us, 1.2 overall. Are these guys likely to eclipse that? Maybe. Is this a stupid low bar to be asking in the first place? Absolutely.

Ceetar Dec 12 2019 01:35 PM Re: Poor-Sell-Oh

you're underselling league average. hell, better than that. Vargas had a 4.30 ERA on the season, that's 46th of 96 starters with a minimum of 40IP. Jason Vargas' xFIP Was pretty nasty though. There are so many moving factors, I don't even know. Vargas was not good, but put up some results. These guys, 1-6, all likely clear that bar. It's a smoother curve. The Mets took some off the top to patch up the bottom. The whole rotation might be slightly worse, but maybe the corral of 13+ pitchers as a whole is better.

Vic Sage Dec 12 2019 02:10 PM Re: Poor-Sell-Oh

Johnny Lunchbucket wrote: Vic Sage wrote: Johnny Lunchbucket wrote: OK for a flyer I guess. a flyer shouldn't cost $10m. Who cares. It's still a low-risk flyer as I see it A "flyer" is a guy you invite to ST on a minor league deal or incentive-laden contract (like Wacha got). Its a guy who, if he doesn't perform, you can just cut him with minimal financial repercussions. I don't think Porcello at $10m guaranteed is a low-risk signing, because that's $10m less that BVW has to spend on the pen and, at that price, he's now penciled in as our 5th starter going into ST. If he sucks, we're still going to be stuck with him, just like we are with Familia at that price. They're not going to eat the contract; it would give the Pons indigestion.

Johnny Lunchbucket Dec 12 2019 02:13 PM Re: Poor-Sell-Oh

It's interesting though isn;t it that the narrative till this morning was that Wacha Wacha was the 5th starter. maybe they are considering a trade of Syndy or Matz. I'd totally consider unloading Matz, I do all the time though.

Edgy MD Dec 12 2019 02:40 PM Re: Poor-Sell-Oh

Yeah, Wacha fell for the freshman recruiting trick. One day, it's all "The program really thinks highly of you. One of our key starters has graduated, and everybody is agreed that you'll fit right into the system." And the very next day they recruit somebody better than you at the same position and you get ready to buy some splinter cream because you ain't getting off the bench.

Vic Sage Dec 12 2019 03:12 PM Re: Poor-Sell-Oh

and because he's only guaranteed $3m.

nymr83 Dec 12 2019 04:03 PM Re: Poor-Sell-Oh

better than a broken record That's what you are. I'm waiting for your post where Porcello's gonna win 25 games and if it's the Mets, it has to be good. It's the Mets who are the broken record. It's what they do. Every season. Pick up defects like Wacha and Porcello when Cole, Strasburg and Wheeler were available, then count on people like you to cover for them with contorted analysis. There's a reason why they have two first place finishes in 31 seasons. That's no accident or bad luck. And if it seems like I'm talking about it again, that's only because the owners just did it again. Of course if the Mets wanted to be a REAL big market team they'd sign Cole. Then they'd go sign a guy like Wacha or Porcello for depth anyway, because they are good depth signings, just not a good "Plan A"

Centerfield Dec 12 2019 04:39 PM Re: Poor-Sell-Oh

Vic Sage wrote: and because he's only guaranteed $3m. Wacha's contract isn't without its own risks. If the Wilpons count that as $10M against the tax and don't spend that elsewhere, that's money that's doing nothing that could have been used on the pen. Alternatively, if they don't leave the wiggle room, I guess it's possible that his incentives will kick us over the tax. Imagine Cohen taking over in 2021 and having to pay the second time offender penalties because of the incentives paid to Michael Fucking Wacha.

Edgy MD Dec 12 2019 05:08 PM Re: Poor-Sell-Oh

Of course if the Mets wanted to be a REAL big market team they'd sign Cole. Then they'd go sign a guy like Wacha or Porcello for depth anyway, because they are good depth signings, just not a good "Plan A" I get bored quickly talking about markets, but I like talking about logic. And logic makes it difficult to argue that "if the Mets wanted to be a REAL big market team they'd sign Cole." No matter how much they wanted to sign Gerritt Cole, there are still a half dozen or more major market teams and only one of him. Each of those teams would have a point at which they'd pull out and realize their money was better invested elsewhere. And one would not.

nymr83 Dec 12 2019 07:55 PM Re: Poor-Sell-Oh

Edgy MD wrote: Of course if the Mets wanted to be a REAL big market team they'd sign Cole. Then they'd go sign a guy like Wacha or Porcello for depth anyway, because they are good depth signings, just not a good "Plan A" I get bored quickly talking about markets, but I like talking about logic. And logic makes it difficult to argue that "if the Mets wanted to be a REAL big market team they'd sign Cole." No matter how much they wanted to sign Gerritt Cole, there are still a half dozen or more major market teams and only one of him. Each of those teams would have a point at which they'd pull out and realize their money was better invested elsewhere. And one would not. Ok, I don't literally mean it has to be Cole there. It could be Cole, or Strasburg, or Rendon, or the big free agents they didn't sign last year. the point is htat a big market team with the revenue sources of the New York market should be signing guys like Wacha as backups not as their top signing in free agency.

Edgy MD Dec 12 2019 09:17 PM Re: Poor-Sell-Oh

Well, let's then hope that's not their top guy. And HEY, they've since signed Porky! So they've already topped Wacha! PSYCHED!

Ceetar Dec 13 2019 06:32 AM Re: Poor-Sell-Oh

=nymr83 post_id=28353 time=1576205732 user_id=54] Ok, I don't literally mean it has to be Cole there. It could be Cole, or Strasburg, or Rendon, or the big free agents they didn't sign last year. the point is htat a big market team with the revenue sources of the New York market should be signing guys like Wacha as backups not as their top signing in free agency.

Jed Lowrie put up 5 fWAR in 2018!



Robinson Cano put up 2.9 in half a season and is potentially a hall of famer! (not a signing but still a spend money acquisition)

Centerfield Dec 13 2019 09:51 AM Re: Poor-Sell-Oh

=Ceetar post_id=28367 time=1576243957 user_id=102] =nymr83 post_id=28353 time=1576205732 user_id=54] Ok, I don't literally mean it has to be Cole there. It could be Cole, or Strasburg, or Rendon, or the big free agents they didn't sign last year. the point is htat a big market team with the revenue sources of the New York market should be signing guys like Wacha as backups not as their top signing in free agency.

Jed Lowrie put up 5 fWAR in 2018!



Robinson Cano put up 2.9 in half a season and is potentially a hall of famer! (not a signing but still a spend money acquisition)




For someone who hates Republicans, you certainly have a thing for their argument style. Jed Lowrie, is not by any stretch of the imagination, a big free agent.



Robinson Cano was not even a free agent.

nymr83 Dec 13 2019 10:11 AM Re: Poor-Sell-Oh

Was he not being obviously facetious?

Centerfield Dec 13 2019 10:15 AM Re: Poor-Sell-Oh

Was he? He spends day and night defending and justifying the Wilpons it's hard to tell.

Ceetar Dec 13 2019 10:16 AM Re: Poor-Sell-Oh

23. Jed Lowrie – Athletics. Three years, $30MM. Only two second basemen — Jose Ramirez and Jose Altuve — have been better than Lowrie by measure of WAR over the past two seasons I mean, sure, he wasn't Machado. They should've signed Machado. But this is not a binary situation in that the Mets didn't sign the top 1-2 free agents therefore they're garbage and have no shot. If this is a money implication, Cano certainly counts. Or is this the Republican way of not counting Mike Piazza as a signing or the 1999-2000 teams as good? =Centerfield post_id=28373 time=1576257301 user_id=65] Was he? He spends day and night defending and justifying the Wilpons it's hard to tell.

fuck off. I defend the Mets as a good team and fun and I try to temper to the nonsense that everything they do is wrong, bad and not enough. That's bullshit. The Mets are in a VERY good position right now, and I find the nonsense here and elsewhere trying to tell me the real joy is in some fictional 2025 wet dream.

nymr83 Dec 13 2019 10:50 AM Re: Poor-Sell-Oh

Mike Piazza? He was signed 20 years ago before anyone had ever heard of Bernie Madoff. How is he at all an argument for what the Mets do right or wrong now?

Ceetar Dec 13 2019 10:53 AM Re: Poor-Sell-Oh

=nymr83 post_id=28380 time=1576259452 user_id=54] Mike Piazza? He was signed 20 years ago before anyone had ever heard of Bernie Madoff. How is he at all an argument for what the Mets do right or wrong now?

Someone keeps spamming certain 'so and so in 30 years' stats and things like that. I don't really read them, so I couldn't tell you exactly.



Anyway, Lowrie was a good signing. Porcello is fine. This isn't a LOLMets move no matter what lies you want to contort your narrative in. I would've loved Strasburg, or Ryu. I don't think Cole is the guy you sign for that long, I don't really trust his Astro numbers. I would've extended or signed Wheeler. But hell, the Mets rotation is pretty damn good.

nymr83 Dec 13 2019 10:58 AM Re: Poor-Sell-Oh

Mike Piazza? He was signed 20 years ago before anyone had ever heard of Bernie Madoff. How is he at all an argument for what the Mets do right or wrong now? Someone keeps spamming certain 'so and so in 30 years' stats and things like that. I don't really read them, so I couldn't tell you exactly. Anyway, Lowrie was a good signing. Porcello is fine. This isn't a LOLMets move no matter what lies you want to contort your narrative in. I would've loved Strasburg, or Ryu. I don't think Cole is the guy you sign for that long, I don't really trust his Astro numbers. I would've extended or signed Wheeler. But hell, the Mets rotation is pretty damn good. I certainly don't cite shit almost as old as I am to make arguments about how the Mets are currently run. I don't need to defend anyone else. Lowrie was fine and so was Porcello when looking at those moves in a vacuum. When looking at them in the CONTEXT of them being the offseason's "big signings" by a team that should be able to operate with a top 5 payroll, the moves are subpar.

batmagadanleadoff Dec 13 2019 10:59 AM Re: Poor-Sell-Oh

fuck off. I defend the Mets as a good team and fun and I try to temper to the nonsense that everything they do is wrong, bad and not enough. That's bullshit. The Mets are in a VERY good position right now, and I find the nonsense here and elsewhere trying to tell me the real joy is in some fictional 2025 wet dream. A coupl' a things. First off, the Mets are not in a 'VERY good position". They have a good team. I'll grant you that because I happen to agree. But being a good team doesn't necessarily put the Mets in a good position these days because they play in a division that, right now, appears to be brutally competitive. In today's NL East, a "good" team could very well finish in fourth place. Granted, no one knows what's gonna happen. Anything could happen and anything will happen because hardly anything in sports ever goes according to script. There'll be WS contenders that are out of it by August and underdogs playing out of their minds and a coupl'a new star players that nobody saw coming. It happens every year. But hoping for the unexpected or to get lucky or to play over your head or to hope that Porcello rediscovers his Cy Young groove (he won't - just like Mo Vaughn didn't rediscover his old MVP groove and Michael Cuddyer - a zillion miles from Coors Field and coming off a season long injury at age 35 -- didn't win a batting title at Citi Field) is not a reasonable strategy for a NY team. You can only go by what's "on paper". And right now, on paper, I'm not even sure the Mets look like a Wild Card team. The strategy shouldn't be to maintain last year's status quo or to field a "good" team. Not in this division. I'm happy for you that you can enjoy the Mets with an almost child-like innocence. And that's not an insult. Sometimes I wish i could, as well. But that doesn't mean that none of us grumpy beaten-down cynics can't talk about Steven Cohen, which to any other hard core Mets fan, is shaping up as one of the biggest stories in franchise history. We're gonna talk about everything Mets. The good, the bad, the ugly and the big black dildo in Kevin Plawecki's old locker. You need to get over it already.

nymr83 Dec 13 2019 11:10 AM Re: Poor-Sell-Oh

What is your obsession with Plawecki's sex toys?

batmagadanleadoff Dec 13 2019 11:13 AM Re: Poor-Sell-Oh

What is your obsession with Plawecki's sex toys? Me? Obsessed? https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49214236671_c3f100b165_c.jpg>

Ceetar Dec 13 2019 11:45 AM Re: Poor-Sell-Oh

the Mets could absolutely win the World Series before Cohen (assuming it happens) takes over. The odds of it happening might be greater than the Wheeler, Cole, or Strasburg winning a Cy Young. So biggest story? not a damn chance. Look, "on paper" the Mets were in the hunt last year. Nationals 90 Phillies 86 Mets 85 Braves 84 was the final fangraphs projections. 5 games is a bunch, but it's not really 'run away' territory. the Mets went 12-7 against the Nats, which easily would've bumped them ahead, all other things equal, which of course they're not, but it's hard not to see a team with maybe slightly less projected talent but results that make up for it as "toe to toe". The Braves blowing the projections out of the water is something to look at going forward for sure, but 2019s results factored in and they'll probably bump up. but even if you replayed 2019 with the same rosters you'd get different results. Having 2019 Strasburg or Jacob deGrom is not much of a given for 2020 results. Using how 2019 looked, even how it ended, as a guide to where the teams stand in 2020 isn't super userful, nor is trying to 1-1 replace rotation pieces and saying they're X better. The Mets are in a good position. They've got the 'paper' talent of a team a few tickets above .500 which the potential for even a few more depending on what shakes out in the offseason and who's healthy when the bell rings. They've got a lot of good players, some coaches I'm hopeful about, and a division that while competitive, isn't without plenty of issues. So yes, if they'd signed Cole and Rendon maybe they'd be 50% to make the playoffs instead of 33. But hell, it's not all doom and gloom and you can talk about Cohen all you want as it pertains to the franchise, but it's not particularly interesting to the 2020 construction of the team or what's going to happen with it, which presumably is what we're all 99% interested in. (granted, I know some here actually enjoy sojourns into teams/players from 30 years ago and barely pay attention, but those people aside)

Centerfield Dec 13 2019 11:49 AM Re: Poor-Sell-Oh

=nymr83 post_id=28380 time=1576259452 user_id=54] Mike Piazza? He was signed 20 years ago before anyone had ever heard of Bernie Madoff. How is he at all an argument for what the Mets do right or wrong now?

So no, he wasn't being facetious.

Centerfield Dec 13 2019 11:57 AM Re: Poor-Sell-Oh

=Ceetar post_id=28376 time=1576257383 user_id=102] =Centerfield post_id=28373 time=1576257301 user_id=65] Was he? He spends day and night defending and justifying the Wilpons it's hard to tell.

fuck off. I defend the Mets as a good team and fun and I try to temper to the nonsense that everything they do is wrong, bad and not enough. That's bullshit. The Mets are in a VERY good position right now, and I find the nonsense here and elsewhere trying to tell me the real joy is in some fictional 2025 wet dream.




Wait. Why do I have to fuck off? I said you spend night and day defending and justifying the Wilpons. Am I wrong? In fact, after telling me to fuck off, you spent the rest of your post defending and justifying the Wilpons.

batmagadanleadoff Dec 13 2019 12:02 PM Re: Poor-Sell-Oh

the Mets could absolutely win the World Series before Cohen (assuming it happens) takes over. The odds of it happening might be greater than the Wheeler, Cole, or Strasburg winning a Cy Young. So biggest story? not a damn chance. I see. The Mets might "absolutely" win the WS real soon. So therefore, the Wilpons relinquishing the Mets won't be one of the biggest stories in franchise history. Hey Centerfield: does any of that make any sense you, 'cause to me, it doesn't. Look, "on paper" the Mets were in the hunt last year. Nationals 90 Phillies 86 Mets 85 Braves 84 And that'e precisely the half-assed, half measure Wilpon approach. To be in the hunt rather than to project as a first place team. Because by your own numbers, the Mets were, on paper, a third place team much closer to fourth place than to first place.

Edgy MD Dec 13 2019 12:15 PM Re: Poor-Sell-Oh

Interestingly, Fangraphs actually projects them as something of a first place team right now. I don't want to make too much of that, because there's a lot that can improved on or fucked up between now and then. And hey, please use the F-bomb neutrally around here, Ceets, rather than pointed at fellow posters.

Ceetar Dec 13 2019 01:15 PM Re: Poor-Sell-Oh

Edgy MD wrote: Interestingly, Fangraphs actually projects them as something of a first place team right now. I don't want to make too much of that, because there's a lot that can improved on or fucked up between now and then. And hey, please use the F-bomb neutrally around here, Ceets, rather than pointed at fellow posters. I thought that was pretty neutral. not 'fuck you' but go 'fuck off' =Centerfield post_id=28390 time=1576263447 user_id=65] Wait. Why do I have to fuck off? I said you spend night and day defending and justifying the Wilpons. Am I wrong? In fact, after telling me to fuck off, you spent the rest of your post defending and justifying the Wilpons.

I don't understand why the both of you insist on characterizing positive about the Mets moves and prospects as having anything to do with the Wilpons, nor how me merely rating them as merely around 1 standard deviation down the inept scale instead of total complete disaster and the worst owners in the history of sports as 'defending them'.



They really don't interest me that much. I'd rather not talk about them, and really would prefer to discuss Porcello without having to having to precisely place his signing in the grand financial picture of 60 years of Mets baseball. or maybe 65-70 now if we're routinely going to be discuss potential future owner's 2025 payroll.

batmagadanleadoff Dec 13 2019 01:55 PM Re: Poor-Sell-Oh

=Ceetar post_id=28396 time=1576268136 user_id=102] I don't understand why the both of you insist on characterizing positive about the Mets moves and prospects as having anything to do with the Wilpons,

Well, the other thing is that I don't see the Porcello pick-up as a positive move. Didn't you read my broken toys for Xmas post? Not when they didn't re-sign Wheeler or go after Cole or Strasburg. Porcello's like a scrap leftover from when you came very late for dinner. Porcello's the fatty gristly piece of meat that not even the dog would eat. They didn't go after JT Realmuto last year either. But this has nothing to do with the Wilpons financial incompetence. No, the Wilpons happen to think that Porcello'll be better than Wheeler and Cole and Strasburg in 2020.

Edgy MD Dec 13 2019 02:11 PM Re: Poor-Sell-Oh

I'll be plenty happy if he's better than Vince Velasquez, Jordan Montgomery, and Aníbal Sánchez.

Ceetar Dec 13 2019 03:07 PM Re: Poor-Sell-Oh

=batmagadanleadoff post_id=28400 time=1576270535 user_id=68] =Ceetar post_id=28396 time=1576268136 user_id=102] I don't understand why the both of you insist on characterizing positive about the Mets moves and prospects as having anything to do with the Wilpons,

Well, the other thing is that I don't see the Porcello pick-up as a positive move. Didn't you read my broken toys for Xmas post? Not when they didn't re-sign Wheeler or go after Cole or Strasburg. Porcello's like a scrap leftover from when you came very late for dinner. Porcello's the fatty gristly piece of meat that not even the dog would eat. They didn't go after JT Realmuto last year either. But this has nothing to do with the Wilpons financial incompetence. No, the Wilpons happen to think that Porcello'll be better than Wheeler and Cole and Strasburg in 2020.


I mean, you're wrong, so tehre's that.



Also Realmuto wasn't available to the Mets for anything approaching a reasonable price. And the signed one of the top 2 catching free agents after the first one decided to sign for less than a third of what the Mets offered him. #cheap

Lefty Specialist Dec 13 2019 04:06 PM Re: Poor-Sell-Oh

Jeez, 2025 can't come fast enough.

Fman99 Dec 13 2019 08:25 PM Re: Poor-Sell-Oh

What is your obsession with Plawecki's sex toys? Me? Obsessed? https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49214236671_c3f100b165_c.jpg> That issue is almost as good as the one on Doc Gooden's favorite lubricants.

batmagadanleadoff Dec 14 2019 12:39 AM Re: Poor-Sell-Oh

What is your obsession with Plawecki's sex toys? Me? Obsessed? https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49214236671_c3f100b165_c.jpg> That issue is almost as good as the one on Doc Gooden's favorite lubricants. You like the Sex issues? We have more.

LWFS Dec 14 2019 06:09 AM Re: Poor-Sell-Oh

Interesting perspective from Verducci on the sneaky prudence of the Porcello signing, this... in which he posits that a few changes in terms of approach might yield significant positive results. [BLOCKQUOTE]The righthander has terrific tools in terms of spin rate but needs to refine how he uses his stuff. Look for new Mets pitching coach Jeremy Hefner, who came from Minnesota, to turn Porcello into Jake Odorizzi 2.0–working the zone up and down rather than side to side. A guy with similar stuff, Odorizzi had a lengthy conversation with Porcello last September about how that transition helped his career... ... Porcello's other issue is that he can't rely as often on his fastballs, especially his sinker, to put hitters away. His biggest problem in 2019 was making mistakes with his fastball when ahead.[/BLOCKQUOTE] I like the Porcello signing, I think (I'm less sanguine on our other formerly-sanguine-clad SP acquisition). I just would really love another investment or three in the rotation or bullpen that AREN'T fixer-uppers besides.

G-Fafif Dec 16 2019 12:25 PM Re: Poor-Sell-Oh

Rick as a Met made official. Stephen Nogosek designated to take a hike.

G-Fafif Dec 16 2019 02:58 PM Re: Poor-Sell-Oh

Dude talks an excellent game (from DiComo). "This is a big deal for me,” Porcello said on a conference call. “I grew up a lifelong Mets fan as a kid. To get the opportunity to play for the organization that I cheered on for so many years is a huge honor."

smg58 Dec 16 2019 05:58 PM Re: Poor-Sell-Oh

Well it will be easy to root for one of us, at least.

ashie62 Dec 16 2019 08:22 PM Re: Poor-Sell-Oh

Porcello is close to Seton Hall prep. Might help. Then again he has a multiyear ineffective card. Cohen, arm wrestle Jeff for Betts. Jeff Wilpon, the pride of Flushing High School. Further education and an MBA may have served him well

LWFS Dec 17 2019 12:22 PM Re: Poor-Sell-Oh

=ashie62 post_id=28536 time=1576552948 user_id=90] Porcello is close to Seton Hall prep. Might help. Then again he has a multiyear ineffective card.

You're right! Ha. Morristown native. I wonder if he sniffed some glue on the bus with my younger cousin (Class of 2006).



Is this a record number of Met-Lovin' Baseball Stars we've got on the roster, here? Between him and the Long Islanders, we've definitely got a healthy contingent.

G-Fafif Dec 17 2019 12:34 PM Re: Poor-Sell-Oh

Matz, Stroman, Brach, Porcello...and Alonso is definitely a Mets fan these days.

Edgy MD Dec 17 2019 12:56 PM Re: Poor-Sell-Oh

Szapucki was born in Tom's River, but he went to High School in Florida, so I guess he's got MLBS potential. Zamora, of course, colleged at Stony Brook.