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Bust 'Em Up

Edgy MD Dec 05 2019 11:40 AM

I'm in an anti-conglomerate mood. You're part of some task force, linking the Department of Justice and the Department of Commerce, and the nation's really got a jones for bringing back anti-trust laws and regulations, enforcing them with some teeth. Your anti-trust task force is assigned to target ten companies for breakup. Who are the first ten you toss onto the table?

Ceetar Dec 05 2019 12:29 PM Re: Bust 'Em Up

Disney probably. MLB. Anheuser Busch. Mondeliez.

41Forever Dec 05 2019 01:21 PM Re: Bust 'Em Up

By some estimates, a company named Luxottica controls 80 percent of the eyeglass industry. Snopes couldn't pin down an exact figure, but said it can't dispute many of the claims in an "Adam Ruins Everything" video in the link. [url]https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/does-luxottica-own-80-of-the-eyeglass-industry/

Edgy MD Dec 05 2019 02:02 PM Re: Bust 'Em Up

Amazon, Apple, Disney, ExxonMobil, Facebook, Google, Merck, MLB, Monsanto, Viacom

Lefty Specialist Dec 05 2019 02:10 PM Re: Bust 'Em Up

Edgy MD wrote: Amazon, Apple, Disney, ExxonMobil, Facebook, Google, Merck, MLB, Monsanto, Viacom Pretty much my list, except that I swap out Comcast for Viacom and JP Morgan Chase for MLB.

Double Switch Dec 05 2019 02:17 PM Re: Bust 'Em Up

Edgy MD wrote: Amazon, Apple, Disney, ExxonMobil, Facebook, Google, Merck, MLB, Monsanto, Viacom Extra credit for alphabetical order. I submit everything owned by the Koch brothers.

batmagadanleadoff Dec 05 2019 03:02 PM Re: Bust 'Em Up

Double Switch wrote: I submit everything owned by the Koch brothers. Including Wisconsin?

Edgy MD Dec 05 2019 03:05 PM Re: Bust 'Em Up

I'm not even sure I pick ExxonMobil, because I'm not sure competition is actually declining in the multinational oil and gas racket like it is in so many of the other sectors. I'd love to throw in maybe another agribusiness giant. I always had a bee in my bonnet to break up Alcoa, but they failed in their bid to take over Alcan and then they split themselves up into Alcoa and Arconic. I'd go after GE or Lockheed, but the Defense Department would get pissy if we fucked with one of their bigshot contracters. The Kochies are half dead.

Double Switch Dec 05 2019 03:11 PM Re: Bust 'Em Up

Double Switch wrote: I submit everything owned by the Koch brothers. Including Wisconsin? Especially Wisconsin. I have family there and I want them liberated.

Double Switch Dec 05 2019 03:15 PM Re: Bust 'Em Up

Edgy MD wrote: I'm not even sure I pick ExxonMobil, because I'm not sure competition is actually declining in the multinational oil and gas racket like it is in so many of the other sectors. Read Rachel Maddow's new book Blowout and see if that helps you decide.

Johnny Lunchbucket Dec 06 2019 06:22 AM Re: Bust 'Em Up

Mondeleez, Ceetar? (this is the stupidly named merged international company that is the successor to Kraft cheez). Big Food is very big but not sure they are anticompetitive. They're bleeding profusely too.

Ceetar Dec 06 2019 07:39 AM Re: Bust 'Em Up

Johnny Lunchbucket wrote: Mondeleez, Ceetar? (this is the stupidly named merged international company that is the successor to Kraft cheez). Big Food is very big but not sure they are anticompetitive. They're bleeding profusely too. Yeah, more from a conglomerate stake than an anti-competitive one, though I guess one could argue that ALL conglomerates are inherently inefficient and bad for the consumer, but you obviously know better than me in this regard. I just know they've got a whole bunch of consolidation in there and I think that dampens originality too. It's like how one MLB team does a Star Wars night so they all do. One company does Pumpkin Spice Oreos so they all do Pumpkin spice, that sorta thing. That said, if I opened a local bakery producing chocolate sandwich creme cookies, would I have any real shot at getting Stop and Shop to carry them? Aside from a "local flair!" section? And would I have any real shot at selling them when you literally have to climb over 17 varieties of oreos to get into the store?

Edgy MD Dec 06 2019 08:03 AM Re: Bust 'Em Up

Double Switch wrote: Edgy MD wrote: I'm not even sure I pick ExxonMobil, because I'm not sure competition is actually declining in the multinational oil and gas racket like it is in so many of the other sectors. Read Rachel Maddow's new book Blowout and see if that helps you decide. Yeah, I have to throw in the caveat that the industry as a whole does a great job keeping alternative energy developers from squeezing into their markets.

Johnny Lunchbucket Dec 06 2019 08:09 AM Re: Bust 'Em Up

Johnny Lunchbucket wrote: Mondeleez, Ceetar? (this is the stupidly named merged international company that is the successor to Kraft cheez). Big Food is very big but not sure they are anticompetitive. They're bleeding profusely too. Yeah, more from a conglomerate stake than an anti-competitive one, though I guess one could argue that ALL conglomerates are inherently inefficient and bad for the consumer, but you obviously know better than me in this regard. I just know they've got a whole bunch of consolidation in there and I think that dampens originality too. It's like how one MLB team does a Star Wars night so they all do. One company does Pumpkin Spice Oreos so they all do Pumpkin spice, that sorta thing. That said, if I opened a local bakery producing chocolate sandwich creme cookies, would I have any real shot at getting Stop and Shop to carry them? Aside from a "local flair!" section? And would I have any real shot at selling them when you literally have to climb over 17 varieties of oreos to get into the store? Yeah, you'd probably go first to the local flair section, possibly to sell on consignment, and you'd have to earn your right to remain there on profitable sales, but if you do all that you're on your way Supermarket shelves are just a different kind of advertising medium, it costs $$ to be there so Oreos pay to get better placement

Edgy MD Dec 06 2019 08:22 AM Re: Bust 'Em Up

Bucket knows best, but I think there is still an entry path. You've got to drive across the country with a van full of samples, show up and hand them out in the back of supermarkets, pretending to be fresh and engaging and exciting, when you are miserable, smelly, and rumpled. If enough people like your cookies in Kalamazoo, then they place a re-order. At the end of your trips, you have maybe a half dozen outlets signing up, and maybe you can afford to advertise in one or two of those markets. Keep hustling and maybe you can go to the expositions next year, or get a pretty young woman to do the supermarket visits the year after that. It's hell to start, but if you find your niche, you're on your way to being the next H. J. Heinz. It's the way it's been done forever, and a lot of guys have fallen flat, but despite the presence of massive giants like CostCo, WalMart, Target, and now Amazon, there are still enough players in the game to find one that will carry you, if you have the pluck and luck. It's not like food is about to go out of style. And it's not like people ever stop getting bored with finding new ways to put salt, sugar, and fat in their mouths.

Ceetar Dec 06 2019 08:29 AM Re: Bust 'Em Up

Johnny Lunchbucket wrote: Supermarket shelves are just a different kind of advertising medium, it costs $$ to be there so Oreos pay to get better placement The entire world is run on advertising and it only gets worse. I'm not sure that's a good thing though. But anyway, if I'm gonna hustle around the state/country hucking my goods, I'm going brewery.

whippoorwill Dec 06 2019 08:44 AM Re: Bust 'Em Up

I'm not sure I like this idea. I get where you're coming from but corporations, while often corrupt, have the resources to do research and innovate The breakup of ATT spawned many small long distance companies but which ones had the same quality?

Lefty Specialist Dec 06 2019 08:50 AM Re: Bust 'Em Up

=whippoorwill post_id=27876 time=1575647057 user_id=79] I'm not sure I like this idea. I get where you're coming from but corporations, while often corrupt, have the resources to do research and innovate The breakup of ATT spawned many small long distance companies but which ones had the same quality?

Before AT&T was busted up, you paid a monthly fee for your phone- you didn't own it, AT&T (through one of the local Bells) owned it. And long distance calls were so expensive you waited until after 7 PM or weekends when the rates were lower.

Edgy MD Dec 06 2019 08:55 AM Re: Bust 'Em Up

=whippoorwill post_id=27876 time=1575647057 user_id=79] I'm not sure I like this idea. I get where you're coming from but corporations, while often corrupt, have the resources to do research and innovate The breakup of ATT spawned many small long distance companies but which ones had the same quality?

Well, I'm not looking to break up corporations out of malice, but with respect to the neglect of our once-robust anti-trust enforcement.



In that spirit, MLB is practically at the top of my list.

Edgy MD Dec 06 2019 08:56 AM Re: Bust 'Em Up

Johnny Lunchbucket wrote: Supermarket shelves are just a different kind of advertising medium, it costs $$ to be there so Oreos pay to get better placement The entire world is run on advertising and it only gets worse. I'm not sure that's a good thing though. But anyway, if I'm gonna hustle around the state/country hucking my goods, I'm going brewery. A pretty good call.

Frayed Knot Dec 06 2019 01:34 PM Re: Bust 'Em Up

Lefty Specialist wrote: =whippoorwill post_id=27876 time=1575647057 user_id=79] I'm not sure I like this idea. I get where you're coming from but corporations, while often corrupt, have the resources to do research and innovate The breakup of ATT spawned many small long distance companies but which ones had the same quality? Before AT&T was busted up, you paid a monthly fee for your phone- you didn't own it, AT&T (through one of the local Bells) owned it. And long distance calls were so expensive you waited until after 7 PM or weekends when the rates were lower.

Yes, basically how things were set up in the beginning was that ATT, in recognition of them essentially wiring the country for phone use, was granted a monopoly on long distance service and the rates for long

distance effectively subsidized local service. The problem was that ATT farmed out local service (most of it anyway) to ... themselves, to the 'baby bells' which they owned. And they also bought their equipment

from (wait for it) ... themselves, via 'Western Electric' (which they owned). A friend's father worked for ATT at the time told me that had ATT voluntarily broken off 'Western Electric', essentially keeping their

monopoly on service but allowing other equipment manufacturers to enter the market, they wouldn't have had the complete breakup shoved down their throats. But they were greedy in wanting to keep what

they always had and so wound up losing it all.



But the breakup was a YUGE win for consumers. Within a short time of the breakup you could walk into a store and buy your own phone for less than the price of what you paid in rent for one Each Year.

The look on the faces of some of the middle aged and older folks at the time when they, in effect, realized how much they had been paying for a piece of equipment -- IIRC it was right about $3.00 per/phone,

per/year ... FOREVER!! -- and the fact that they had just accepted that as the way things were and were always destined to be was a revelation.

ATT's argument at the time was that if your phone broke they'd repair/replace for free. But, once things were no longer in a monopoly, your store-bought phone could break every six months and you'd still

be saving money over the old system. And could imagine how a one-supplier economy would work with today's phones!?!?!? Look at Cable TV, there's not one national monopoly but many locales are

serviced by just one supplier and often that supplier works with local pols to keep it that way.

Ceetar Dec 06 2019 03:29 PM Re: Bust 'Em Up

Frayed Knot wrote: Look at Cable TV, there's not one national monopoly but many locales are serviced by just one supplier and often that supplier works with local pols to keep it that way. and all the cable company DVRs are mostly crap. really bad crap. TIVO was (is?) amazing but didn't come bundled with your service so.. Routers too. Neither of these things are mandated by the cable company, but they certainly make it seem like it. In fact, since the cable modem that brings in your internet/tv/phone is now usually bundled, physically, with the router, you CAN get your own but you'd still have to pay for theirs.

Edgy MD Dec 07 2019 09:42 PM Re: Bust 'Em Up

Frayed Knot wrote: But the breakup was a YUGE win for consumers. Within a short time of the breakup you could walk into a store and buy your own phone for less than the price of what you paid in rent for one Each Year. The look on the faces of some of the middle aged and older folks at the time when they, in effect, realized how much they had been paying for a piece of equipment -- IIRC it was right about $3.00 per/phone, per/year ... FOREVER!! -- and the fact that they had just accepted that as the way things were and were always destined to be was a revelation. ATT's argument at the time was that if your phone broke they'd repair/replace for free. But, once things were no longer in a monopoly, your store-bought phone could break every six months and you'd still be saving money over the old system. And could imagine how a one-supplier economy would work with today's phones!?!?!? Look at Cable TV, there's not one national monopoly but many locales are serviced by just one supplier and often that supplier works with local pols to keep it that way. This is all 100% true, but I still appreciate memories of the days when every household had at least one phone that you could kill somebody with.

Edgy MD Dec 08 2019 07:52 PM Re: Bust 'Em Up

They've already (amazingly) been gobbled up by Bayer, and I don't know if they've been more anti-competitive than the next agribusiness, but Monsanto has really done a LOT of evil in their time on Earth, haven't they?

41Forever Dec 09 2019 06:15 AM Re: Bust 'Em Up

After my experience buying tickets to see "Hamilton" in Chicago, I'm all in favor of busting up Ticketmaster. $45 service charge per ticket -- then the drop some other $5 charge on there.

Lefty Specialist Dec 09 2019 08:10 AM Re: Bust 'Em Up

Frayed Knot wrote: Look at Cable TV, there's not one national monopoly but many locales are serviced by just one supplier and often that supplier works with local pols to keep it that way. and all the cable company DVRs are mostly crap. really bad crap. TIVO was (is?) amazing but didn't come bundled with your service so.. Routers too. Neither of these things are mandated by the cable company, but they certainly make it seem like it. In fact, since the cable modem that brings in your internet/tv/phone is now usually bundled, physically, with the router, you CAN get your own but you'd still have to pay for theirs. Yeah, we got our own router for us and for Lefty Jr. They were happy to charge us $12 a month FOREVER for theirs, but we declined.