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DH 2021???

bmfc1 Jan 27 2020 09:19 AM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Jan 27 2020 10:50 AM

https://twitter.com/JimBowdenGM/status/1221826513496084481 or 2022: https://twitter.com/Ken_Rosenthal/status/1221852534031122434 I'm not a fan of Jim Bowden but if this is true, Cano has a place to play where his lack of range won't hurt. The downside is that Mets' pitchers can rake.

smg58 Jan 27 2020 09:25 AM Re: DH 2021???

Don't you mean J. D. Davis? Or perhaps Alonso, if we still have Dom Smith?

seawolf17 Jan 27 2020 09:26 AM Re: DH 2021???

Yeah, for a team with a bunch of guys who can whack the ball but not enough logical places to play them, this could be a good thing. We'll see, I guess.

Edgy MD Jan 27 2020 09:28 AM Re: DH 2021???

Except that describes a lot of teams.

Centerfield Jan 27 2020 09:33 AM Re: DH 2021???

Cespedes extension confirmed.

Benjamin Grimm Jan 27 2020 09:46 AM Re: DH 2021???

There was a rumor that the Mets acquired Cano "knowing" that the NL would have the DH for the last few years of his contract, and that they saw that as a mitigating factor. I have my doubts about how true this is, but who knows? And even if this is true, the Mets would still be better off without him. They could probably find a better DH in 2023 than a 41-year-old Robinson Cano.

seawolf17 Jan 27 2020 09:53 AM Re: DH 2021???

Benjamin Grimm wrote: They could probably find a better DH in 2023 than a 41-year-old Robinson Cano. Especially considering they'll be coming off three consecutive World Series titles at that point.

41Forever Jan 27 2020 10:58 AM Re: DH 2021???

I'm resigned to this happening. The amazing thing is that the leagues have gone nearly 50 years with different rules.

kcmets Jan 27 2020 11:04 AM Re: DH 2021???

If anything the AL should get rid of the DH. (and I know all the reasons that will never happen so save your collective breaths)

smg58 Jan 27 2020 11:15 AM Re: DH 2021???

So who exactly wants this?

kcmets Jan 27 2020 11:26 AM Re: DH 2021???

Ceetar!

Lefty Specialist Jan 27 2020 11:49 AM Re: DH 2021???

=smg58 post_id=30563 time=1580148922 user_id=62] So who exactly wants this?

Players whose career it extends.

AL owners who feel they're penalized when they play in NL parks.

Most NL owners because they want to see more offense.

Managers not smart enough to do double-switches properly.

Also, this would be the final thing that would allow wholesale reshuffling of teams into more 'promotable' alignments, like putting the Mets and Yankees in the same division.

G-Fafif Jan 27 2020 12:16 PM Re: DH 2021???

DH 2021: A Dystopian Future. I've kept hoping that the publicly quiet periods on this issue were an indicator it was going away, like somebody noticed how much fun it is when a pitcher drives in a run and said, “never mind, baseball has bigger problems.”

Ceetar Jan 27 2020 12:32 PM Re: DH 2021???

=kcmets post_id=30567 time=1580149608 user_id=53]Ceetar!

want is a strong word.





I'm not particularly enthused to rediscuss it for the 1000th time cause some guy tweeted a thing though. Boring.



I do still contend that MLB could just do it whenever they wanted the way the rule is written though.

kcmets Jan 27 2020 12:36 PM Re: DH 2021???

=Ceetar post_id=30574 time=1580153557 user_id=102]want is a strong word.

I know - I was being ½ serious, ½ funny and ½ ass.

Ceetar Jan 27 2020 12:41 PM Re: DH 2021???

=kcmets post_id=30575 time=1580153762 user_id=53] =Ceetar post_id=30574 time=1580153557 user_id=102]want is a strong word.

I know - I was being ½ serious, ½ funny and ½ ass.


i'm trying to make a math joke out of this but it's not working. so just laugh and let's move on.

kcmets Jan 27 2020 12:44 PM Re: DH 2021???

I think it's Yogi or Casey math, maybe both!

Centerfield Jan 27 2020 01:05 PM Re: DH 2021???

I guess silver lining, if this means JD Davis has a long term role on this team, that can be a good thing. Love that guy. Looks like a real hitter. And I thought we were trading Cano for Arenado.

Edgy MD Jan 27 2020 01:33 PM Re: DH 2021???

But there are J.D. Davises all over the league — good hitters who don't really have a position. I don't think that's a benefit to the Mets. The Nats have Eric Thames. The Brewers have Ryan Braun. The Cards have José Martinez. That's why the DH is bad. Doors shouldn't be artificially opened to players with narrow skill sets. Either a player gets through because of the breadth of his skills, or he gets through because one skill is so overwhelmingly good that you accept that you have to cross your fingers and hold your nose when the other parts of his game are called on and exposed. Risk! Strategy!

Centerfield Jan 27 2020 01:38 PM Re: DH 2021???

I don't know that it will benefit the Mets. Especially since the Mets pitchers can hit. I just happen to like Davis. But agreed, the DH sucks.

Frayed Knot Jan 27 2020 01:44 PM Re: DH 2021???

Yeah, that's the major problem. The DH started as an "experimental" rule. But then even as the conditions which spawned its birth -- low offense, sagging AL attendance, fear that older stars forced into retirement would take fans with them (as if they'd never be replaced) --- went away, the rule never did. And then once it's entrenched, fans (and probably the clubs) get it into their heads that 'Player X' wouldn't be in the league without the DH which is nonsense. David Ortiz could have played for any team, the team would just now have to consider his drawbacks rather than rely on an artificial rule which allow his drawbacks never to see the light of day. But it's rarely an advantage, certainly not a sustained one anyway, for any individual club because everyone is working with the same factors.

nymr83 Jan 27 2020 02:51 PM Re: DH 2021???

fuck the DH. fuck it. [YOUTUBE]https://youtu.be/OVFsq9FQBlc[/YOUTUBE]

Ceetar Jan 27 2020 03:11 PM Re: DH 2021???

yes, Colon was just thrilling to watch. [attachment=0]colon.png[/attachment]

Edgy MD Jan 27 2020 03:29 PM Re: DH 2021???

And the risk of the exposure of the drawbacks is a delight. You know what made that Game Five between the Sox and Yanks in 2004 the most thrilling game of that remarkable series? It's not just that it went to 14 innings with the Sox' life and decades of Boston hopes on the line. It was that they spent the last three innings with Tim Wakefield on the mound and Jason Varitek catching. Doug Mirabelli sat on the bench and Terry Francona spent the last several innings with his balls exposed to everybody. Tek couldn't catch the knuckler. All of baseball knew it. But Francona kept him in there on the off chance that his offense could help end the game before his defense did. And somehow, playing more like a goaltender than a catcher, he hurled his body in front of butterflies for three innings. Three passed balls got away from him, including a point where two of them got the go-ahead run to third for the Yankees, but Francona, Varitek and Wakey held in there as Ruben Sierra went down. Having weaknesses isn't to be ashamed of. It's part of being human. And a game that doesn't hide humanity is a game that makes for better human drama.

Fman99 Jan 27 2020 07:58 PM Re: DH 2021???

I hate the God damned DH. I have and will always hate it. It's not baseball. It's a fucking beer league rule, which is of course what the AL is. Why else do their games all take four hours?

LWFS Jan 27 2020 08:24 PM Re: DH 2021???

TBF, if we're going by its prevalence in 2020, it IS baseball, at least more than non-DH is.

MFS62 Jan 28 2020 04:59 AM Re: DH 2021???

Lefty Specialist wrote: Managers not smart enough .... The rule that made Joe Torre famous. And Mariano Rivera made him smart. Later

bmfc1 Jan 28 2020 05:13 AM Re: DH 2021???

The current rule says that you lose the DH: "If the DH is replaced by a player who then takes a position, the pitcher must bat in the designated hitter's place." Maybe that will be changed.

seawolf17 Jan 28 2020 06:53 AM Re: DH 2021???

I liked a thing I saw floating around a few weeks ago - the DH leaves the game when you remove your starting pitcher. 1. "Saves" starters from getting "hurt" in phantom batting/running injuries 2. You added a 26th roster spot, might as well use it. 3. You're going to pinch-hit for your relievers anyway. 4. Strategery.

Johnny Lunchbucket Jan 28 2020 06:59 AM Re: DH 2021???

Complicated, but interesting. Align the DH to any player before the game. Then if and when the game play continues to evolve to a point where starters have become closers, your DH/closer arrives in the 6th inning, providing offense and defense simultaneously. Not that I'm in favor of any DH-ing at all. But I gotta say, I've been beaten down and it feels inevitable

Ceetar Jan 28 2020 07:29 AM Re: DH 2021???

I liked a thing I saw floating around a few weeks ago - the DH leaves the game when you remove your starting pitcher. 1. "Saves" starters from getting "hurt" in phantom batting/running injuries 2. You added a 26th roster spot, might as well use it. 3. You're going to pinch-hit for your relievers anyway. 4. Strategery. I don't like this for much the reason I'd prefer no-DH uniformly than all-DH.(I just think we've gone so far in baseball that even NL pitchers are basically mailing it in. Might as well remove the mailing it in aspects) freedom. I like the idea that we've got 9 players that we can use however we like. Whether that means 9 pitchers, or 1. defensive replacements, guys that only bat from the left side, Openers, LOOGYs, second RFers playing by the SS for 5-man infields. Switching the pitcher to RF and then back to P. I like the free form of it, the uniformity, all 9 guys try to score, all 9 guys then try to prevent the other team from scoring. Sub 'em out how you see fit to maximize it. On that note I also HATE the designation of pitchers as pitchers and hitters as hitters. Worst thing that's happened since the DH. I also dislike the automatic IBB rule because it legislates in a silly workaround. I'd rather they'd go the other way and not let the catcher out of the box period. It's a competition! why are we letting managers wave a hand and click 'skip'? Plus it hurts the flow of the game. It happens so fast and often so simply that you miss it unless you're laser focused on that moment. Sometimes the announcers miss it too. Plus the 4 pitch stretch of getting to boo the team for skipping a guy is a fun part of the fan experience.

seawolf17 Jan 28 2020 08:00 AM Re: DH 2021???

Look, I completely agree, Ceets, but the DH is coming whether we like it or not, because... the union? Owners? Honestly, I have no idea why, but Lunch is right, it's happening, so we might as well brainstorm ideas that make it less terrible. And no, it's not complicated, necessarily. You have a DH set for your starting pitcher. He bats in whatever spot in the order you want. But when your pitcher is scuffling and you take him out, you have two options -- slide the DH into the field and stick your reliever in that spot in the order, or your DH is out with your starter. You want two ABs of David Ortiz in the four spot, then a giant reliever-shaped hole? Cool, go for it. You want to go with no DH and have deGrom bat ninth and hit for himself so you don't lose the spot? Cool too. Whatever.

Ceetar Jan 28 2020 08:08 AM Re: DH 2021???

yeah, i just think that this wrinkle adds MORE nonsense. 1. It basically eliminates openers and i'm pro-opener. (use your 26 players however you want, even if that's a pitcher an inning) 2. this is why it won't happen, it'll basically eliminate full time DHs. You're not having David Ortiz only play 3 PA a game. Which means you're having him play the field, which means you're not likely having another 'good/regular' 1Bman anyway, so you're eliminating a spot. So now you're basically half-resting guys and using matchups/PH anyway, so might as well just have the pitcher bat. (or have no DH and just a PH spot?) 3. There are some shenanigans that'll happen that'll be amusing, but I don't think that's a good reason to do it. Specifically the 'pitchers getting hurt' bit, because while they may not run, if David Ortiz is due up third in the bottom of the 6th and you've got 2-out, 2 on and really want to go to a reliever, managers are going to put the starter in the outfield to preserve that AB. (I guess you could eliminate pitchers' playing the field at all, but now pitcher's are even more separate from the rest of their team. It's like they're playing a different sport)

TransMonk Jan 28 2020 08:09 AM Re: DH 2021???

Universal DH coming...I'm surprised it took so long. I'd like it more if it was part of radical change to the game. Geographically realign, get rid of the NL/AL, unbalance the schedules to reduce travel by playing bulk of games in division, shorten the season to 156 games with regularly scheduled off days and double headers. I think someone here (FK?) linked to an article last year that talked about blowing up the league in order to start fresh now that everyone would be playing by the same rules, but I can't find it now.

Ceetar Jan 28 2020 08:18 AM Re: DH 2021???

Let's suggest something else. You can reenter the game in future innings if you've exited. why not? you could throw your two best starters every other inning, lefty/righty. You could use your best reliever in the 6th against Trout and still use him to finish off the 9th. You could glue a pitcher to Bryce Harper. "In this weekend series against the Mets, Bryce Harper faced Stephen Matz 14 times and struck out in 10 of them." If you used a LOOGY in this situation, You'd have to balance diminishing returns. Seeing a lefty specialist once a game, or once every other game is tough, but there's a reason those guys aren't starters. Do you use him down 1 in game 1, knowing Harper might start to get the timing down by the time you want to use him up 1 in the 9th in game 3? Think of all the opportunity to kill the manager for using/not using guys this way! You'd have to nail down some rules. Maybe if you come in on defense you have to bat once, and if you pinch hit, you have to play an inning in the field? Or maybe a 3 inning lag time, or you can only return in the position you left. (in the batting order) so no batting David Wright third, removing him, and then bringing him in 6th in the next inning. Phillies are bringing in a lefty to face Conforto in the 5th! Rojas subs in Cespedes. 8th inning, pinch hit Conforto for Cespedes and now the Phillies are bringing back the lefty! Gotcha! I dunno, it seems fun.

bmfc1 Jan 28 2020 09:47 AM Re: DH 2021???

I'm not advocating for the DH but this is Manfred's biggest argument: it increases offense and the game doesn't have enough action. The players want it because it's paid higher than a utility player. It makes life easier for managers because they can think less. It avoids the DH discrepancy during interleague games and the World Series. I'd still rather watch deGrom/Matz/Noah/Stro hit.

Fman99 Jan 28 2020 09:51 AM Re: DH 2021???

I hate it and I don't care what you try to do to make it more palliative. HATE IT.

Benjamin Grimm Jan 28 2020 10:01 AM Re: DH 2021???

If they want to increase action, they should have the batters hit off a tee. That should cut down on the number of strikeouts.

Ceetar Jan 28 2020 10:13 AM Re: DH 2021???

=bmfc1 post_id=30636 time=1580230056 user_id=73] I'm not advocating for the DH but this is Manfred's biggest argument: it increases offense and the game doesn't have enough action. The players want it because it's paid higher than a utility player. It makes life easier for managers because they can think less. It avoids the DH discrepancy during interleague games and the World Series. I'd still rather watch deGrom/Matz/Noah/Stro hit.

yes but Manfred's an idiot and clearly doesn't even like baseball.

41Forever Jan 28 2020 10:18 AM Re: DH 2021??? Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Jan 28 2020 10:44 AM

=TransMonk post_id=30633 time=1580224183 user_id=71] Universal DH coming...I'm surprised it took so long. I'd like it more if it was part of radical change to the game. Geographically realign, get rid of the NL/AL, unbalance the schedules to reduce travel by playing bulk of games in division, shorten the season to 156 games with regularly scheduled off days and double headers. I think someone here (FK?) linked to an article last year that talked about blowing up the league in order to start fresh now that everyone would be playing by the same rules, but I can't find it now.

One of the best parts of baseball is that we can have such passionate debates about it! I respect your opinions, but disagree.



I don't think baseball needs to be blown up. You can always improve things here or there, but I think the sport is thriving.



I think the NL/AL distinctions are historic. And while the differences between the leagues are certainly diminished from the days when there were separate league offices, I think it's important to respect that history. I still think the Astros are in the NL half the time.



I think MLB is more likely to add two teams to deal with the forced inter-league games rather than realign. And I like the inter-league games. More opportunities to see the Mets.



I don't know if there is a huge need to reduce travel -- it's not like they are flying economy on Southwest -- and I like seeing more teams, rather than the sames ones over and over.



I don't see a benefit in shortening the season. It's been 162 going on 60 years. And if they are going to have more doubleheaders, it would be of the day/night variety and those suck.



What could be improved? Create disincentives for tanking. It's unfair to the fans to charge Major League prices for a team that isn't trying to win. I don't know if I have a good solution to that. I know there have always been haves and have-nots, sometimes because of economics and other times because of chronic mismanagement. If they are worried about length of games, start enforcing some of the rules already in the books. Of course, we know now know why batters step out of the box to adjust their gloves and such after every pitch -- waiting to hear the trash can bangs and whatever.

Johnny Lunchbucket Jan 28 2020 10:25 AM Re: DH 2021???

Nobody wants to join my unpopular but reasonable movement to lop 2 innings off every game. It would do wonders for game length, ease strain on pitcher arms and maximize strategy by compressing things. Side effects: No hitters and extra inning games would probably go way up (or maybe not?) Reduce innings, not games!

Willets Point Jan 28 2020 10:30 AM Re: DH 2021???

=TransMonk post_id=30633 time=1580224183 user_id=71] Universal DH coming...I'm surprised it took so long. I'd like it more if it was part of radical change to the game. Geographically realign, get rid of the NL/AL, unbalance the schedules to reduce travel by playing bulk of games in division, shorten the season to 156 games with regularly scheduled off days and double headers. I think someone here (FK?) linked to an article last year that talked about blowing up the league in order to start fresh now that everyone would be playing by the same rules, but I can't find it now.

I'm totally on board with geographical alignment. New regional rivalries and no games against some random team from 2000 miles away. Attendance and ratings would go up. Fans could travel to more road games. No more staying up late to watch west coast games (or if you're on the west coast, having east coast games start before you leave work). More games within the division means knowing your enemies better (and hating them). Reduced travel time also lessens the negative effect of travel/time zone changes on the players. I'm not a fan of DH but it seems inevitable so if those other changes come along, sign me up.



I know I've mentioned this before but with geographic alignment, I'd also like to see the end of interleague play. Make it three leagues of 10 teams, or 4 leagues of 8 teams if they expand. Every team plays a balanced schedule against the teams they're competing with for a pennant, just like it was from 1869-1968.

Centerfield Jan 28 2020 10:51 AM Re: DH 2021???

=41Forever post_id=30641 time=1580231889 user_id=69] =TransMonk post_id=30633 time=1580224183 user_id=71] Universal DH coming...I'm surprised it took so long. I'd like it more if it was part of radical change to the game. Geographically realign, get rid of the NL/AL, unbalance the schedules to reduce travel by playing bulk of games in division, shorten the season to 156 games with regularly scheduled off days and double headers. I think someone here (FK?) linked to an article last year that talked about blowing up the league in order to start fresh now that everyone would be playing by the same rules, but I can't find it now.

One of the best parts of baseball is that we can have such passionate debates about it! I respect your opinions, but disagree.



I don't think baseball needs to be blown up. You can always improve things here or there, but I think the sport is thriving.



I think the NL/AL distinctions are historic. And while the differences between the leagues are certainly diminished from the days when there were separate league offices, I think it's important to respect that history. I still think the Astros are in the NL half the time.



I think MLB is more likely to add two teams to deal with the forced inter-league games rather than realign. And I like the inter-league games. More opportunities to see the Mets.



I don't know if there is a huge need to reduce travel -- it's not like they are flying economy on Southwest -- and I like seeing more teams, rather than the sames ones over and over.



I don't see a benefit in shortening the season. It's been 162 going on 60 years. And if they are going to have more doubleheaders, it would be of the day/night variety and those suck.



What could be improved? Create disincentives for tanking. It's unfair to the fans to charge Major League prices for a team that isn't trying to win. I don't know if I have a good solution to that. I know there have always been haves and have-nots, sometimes because of economics and other times because of chronic mismanagement. If they are worried about length of games, start enforcing some of the rules already in the books. Of course, we know now know why batters step out of the box to adjust their gloves and such after every pitch -- waiting to hear the trash can bangs and whatever.


How crazy is 2020. I agree with everything written in this post!



I think the disincentive for tanking is pretty simple. The first ten teams to miss the playoffs get the first ten picks.



Draft order.

Picks 1-10: Teams that finished 11-20 by record, in that order.

Picks 11-20: Playoff teams, in reverse order of their record. So 10 picks first, then countdown to 1.

Picks 21-30: Teams that finished 21-30 by record, in that order.

Lefty Specialist Jan 28 2020 11:03 AM Re: DH 2021???

=Fman99 post_id=30637 time=1580230267 user_id=86] I hate it and I don't care what you try to do to make it more palliative. HATE IT.

This.

Ceetar Jan 28 2020 11:07 AM Re: DH 2021???

I'd add more than 2 teams to be honest, and would better randomize interleague play and get rid of forced Mets-Yanks every year. You play a random small subset of the other league, 6 teams maybe, varies, randomly. Maybe a weight for subway series stuff, or by request of owners or something, so they happen more often, but not every year. Travel isn't as bad as it was, but we're learning more and more how much lack of sleep, and weird schedules can mess with you, performance wise, so it's still important. travel time from Seattle park to Seattle airport to JFK to your home is still a long travel day. I'd add at least 1 team near Seattle, but maybe 3. Vancouver, Portland, etc. And on the same travel vein, since Mexico City gets mentioned a lot, 2 teams, maybe more, there. Same division so they get a lot of lesser travel days to make up for how far they have to travel otherwise.

41Forever Jan 28 2020 11:12 AM Re: DH 2021???

=Centerfield post_id=30644 time=1580233912 user_id=65] =41Forever post_id=30641 time=1580231889 user_id=69] =TransMonk post_id=30633 time=1580224183 user_id=71] Universal DH coming...I'm surprised it took so long. I'd like it more if it was part of radical change to the game. Geographically realign, get rid of the NL/AL, unbalance the schedules to reduce travel by playing bulk of games in division, shorten the season to 156 games with regularly scheduled off days and double headers. I think someone here (FK?) linked to an article last year that talked about blowing up the league in order to start fresh now that everyone would be playing by the same rules, but I can't find it now.

One of the best parts of baseball is that we can have such passionate debates about it! I respect your opinions, but disagree.



I don't think baseball needs to be blown up. You can always improve things here or there, but I think the sport is thriving.



I think the NL/AL distinctions are historic. And while the differences between the leagues are certainly diminished from the days when there were separate league offices, I think it's important to respect that history. I still think the Astros are in the NL half the time.



I think MLB is more likely to add two teams to deal with the forced inter-league games rather than realign. And I like the inter-league games. More opportunities to see the Mets.



I don't know if there is a huge need to reduce travel -- it's not like they are flying economy on Southwest -- and I like seeing more teams, rather than the sames ones over and over.



I don't see a benefit in shortening the season. It's been 162 going on 60 years. And if they are going to have more doubleheaders, it would be of the day/night variety and those suck.



What could be improved? Create disincentives for tanking. It's unfair to the fans to charge Major League prices for a team that isn't trying to win. I don't know if I have a good solution to that. I know there have always been haves and have-nots, sometimes because of economics and other times because of chronic mismanagement. If they are worried about length of games, start enforcing some of the rules already in the books. Of course, we know now know why batters step out of the box to adjust their gloves and such after every pitch -- waiting to hear the trash can bangs and whatever.


How crazy is 2020. I agree with everything written in this post!



I think the disincentive for tanking is pretty simple. The first ten teams to miss the playoffs get the first ten picks.



Draft order.

Picks 1-10: Teams that finished 11-20 by record, in that order.

Picks 11-20: Playoff teams, in reverse order of their record. So 10 picks first, then countdown to 1.

Picks 21-30: Teams that finished 21-30 by record, in that order.


I've always believed that we agree on far more things than we disagree!

TransMonk Jan 28 2020 11:32 AM Re: DH 2021???

One of the best parts of baseball is that we can have such passionate debates about it! I respect your opinions, but disagree. Agreed...and that's OK. I don't think baseball needs to be blown up. You can always improve things here or there, but I think the sport is thriving. "Blown up" was maybe the wrong term...I mostly meant changing some of the nagging things that could be improved. I think the NL/AL distinctions are historic. And while the differences between the leagues are certainly diminished from the days when there were separate league offices, I think it's important to respect that history. I still think the Astros are in the NL half the time. Yabbut, if the DH is added to the NL, then there is no more need to have the distinction. It becomes historical, which is fine with me. As an NL purist, I think it would make the transition more palatable. When I tell my grandkids about the "good old days", I can talk about the differences and nuance that made the NL special. Once the DH becomes universal, that is gone. I think MLB would have a better time selling abolishing the differences in the leagues than adding the DH to the NL. I think MLB is more likely to add two teams to deal with the forced inter-league games rather than realign. And I like the inter-league games. More opportunities to see the Mets. I'm sure they will, too. But I don't like adding more teams. I'd contract if anything. I feel the talent pool is diluted and better competition would be forced by fewer teams. I don't know if there is a huge need to reduce travel -- it's not like they are flying economy on Southwest -- and I like seeing more teams, rather than the sames ones over and over. Poll the players and owners and see what they say. It is an expense and it also creates wear and tear on players. Realigning so that the Mets play the Yankees 18-24 times per year rather than the Marlins or Braves saves thousands of air miles and reduces road trips. Players would be fresher and, theoretically, would perform better and last longer. And I'm not saying they would never play other teams. Ideally, I would advocate for 8 four team divisions where teams play their division rivals 24 times and then one series against every other team in the league (alternating home/away each year). That would be 156 games and the schedule would be set. You would know that the Mets are coming to Detroit every other year rather than the random scheduling that happens now. *On edit - I guess my premise here does mean there would be expansion of two teams. I don't see a benefit in shortening the season. It's been 162 going on 60 years. And if they are going to have more doubleheaders, it would be of the day/night variety and those suck. Again, ask the players. Travel and scheduling in baseball is worse than ever. I have a feeling that players are going to negotiate mandatory off days after road trips and playing no more than something like 10 days in a row. Reducing the number of games while keeping the April through October timeframe allows schedule makers to put in more off days. Doubleheaders would help with that as well...and I would hope that they would be true twin-bills and I'm talking like no more than two or three a season. More off days means that players again would be fresher and last longer.

Edgy MD Jan 28 2020 02:58 PM Re: DH 2021???

=bmfc1 post_id=30636 time=1580230056 user_id=73]I'm not advocating for the DH but this is Manfred's biggest argument: it increases offense and the game doesn't have enough action.

If offense and action were synonymous, the game would be fine. But they aren't, and it's sure hard to argue that the AL has a more exciting game




=bmfc1 post_id=30636 time=1580230056 user_id=73]The players want it because it's paid higher than a utility player.
I've tried several times to demonstrate that it doesn't tend to break this way.




=bmfc1 post_id=30636 time=1580230056 user_id=73]It makes life easier for managers because they can think less.
True, but making the game stupider and protecting fat players from having to field and dumb managers from having to think is a double-drawback.




=bmfc1 post_id=30636 time=1580230056 user_id=73]It avoids the DH discrepancy during interleague games and the World Series.
If that's truly a problem, I can come up with a better way to solve it in two seconds.




=bmfc1 post_id=30636 time=1580230056 user_id=73]I'd still rather watch deGrom/Matz/Noah/Stro hit.
My brother!



I'd rather watch John Franco and Doug Sisk hit. Hell, I'd rather watch Al Leiter hit.

Frayed Knot Jan 28 2020 03:39 PM Re: DH 2021???

The long-time 'Pro' DH argument has always been: 'Well who would you rather see hit, [inept pitcher] or ['Name' slugger]? But that argument carried out to its logical conclusion can be fitted to just about any situation. -- 'Who would you rather see play SS?' ... and use that to have a rule where your glove man fields but another hits for him. Rey Ordonez: Designated Fielder. He coulda had a 20 year career!! -- 'You wanna see Wilson Ramos run or Sam Haggerty?' ... and have a situation where SH never bats but trots out to replace the Buffalo each time he reaches base. The fault with the DH, as it does with many things, lies with the Yanquis.

Edgy MD Jan 28 2020 09:08 PM Re: DH 2021???

"The fault, dear Brutus, is not in our stars, but in the Yankees' stars." – Julius Caeser, Act I, Scene 2

Centerfield Jan 29 2020 08:42 AM Re: DH 2021???

Frayed Knot wrote: The long-time 'Pro' DH argument has always been: 'Well who would you rather see hit, [inept pitcher] or ['Name' slugger]? But that argument carried out to its logical conclusion can be fitted to just about any situation. -- 'Who would you rather see play SS?' ... and use that to have a rule where your glove man fields but another hits for him. Rey Ordonez: Designated Fielder. He coulda had a 20 year career!! -- 'You wanna see Wilson Ramos run or Sam Haggerty?' ... and have a situation where SH never bats but trots out to replace the Buffalo each time he reaches base. The fault with the DH, as it does with many things, lies with the Yanquis. Exactly right. Extract that logic out further. Who would you rather see hit? 8 guys not as good as Mike Trout or Mike Trout? We should let Trout take every AB and use pinch runners. Sam Haggerty. Billy Hamilton. A well-trained cheetah.

smg58 Jan 29 2020 09:57 AM Re: DH 2021???

A poorly trained cheetah would be much more entertaining. Especially if the Yankees are on the field.

Frayed Knot Jan 29 2020 01:34 PM Re: DH 2021???

btw, the reason I blamed this all on the Yanquis was that I don't think it was a coincidence that the AL turned to this rule in desperation following the decade when the Yanx attained also-ran status. After dominating the AL from the early/mid '20s thru the early/mid '60s, the AL found itself much more single-team dependent as compared to the NL. So when the yanx went into a tailspin starting in 1965, that league lost their main drawing card. Attendance plummeted (much more so than NL) as the AL found itself with the weaker franchises in all three of the biggest markets: Mets out-drew MFY from '64 on; Cubs over White Sox (though neither drew real well at that point); Dodgers way over Angels, plus were sputtering in cities like Baltimore and Washington (would leave D.C. in '61 and again in '72), KC/Oakland (at least while they were acting as a de facto farm system for the Yanx, and Cleveland (there's a reason they were chosen for that movie). Add to that that the NL was simply the better league at that point talent wise, just look at the pitching especially [Koufax, Seaver, Carlton, Gibson, Jenkins, Marichal compared to the likes of Palmer, Tiant, Kaat, ???]. But the AL was also the lower scoring league despite not having to face those arms and it was the combination of the low attendance and low scoring which prompted the change. It was a temporary "solution" to a temporary problem (the AL hadn't always been worse and scoring had already picked up due to rule changes in '69) that never should have been allowed to happen. As Red Smith once wrote about some decision Bowie Kuhn made (or failed to make, I forget which): 'If Bowie Kuhn were alive today this never would have happened'. In fairness I'm not sure Bowie could have stopped it if he wanted to as the leagues had much more independent autonomy at that time but I seem to recall he at least passively backed it, possibly because he was afraid of losing AL owner support for a possible future term extension. So while the other AL teams first just basically rolled over for four decades and allowed the MFY to beat the shit out of them -- often thanks to the players they sold/gave away/dealt to them for not much in return -- they then realized that they couldn't live without a money-making bully to push them around and so advocated for this "experimental" rule to fix a problem of their own making. And now nearly half a century later the rule still exists and is now about to be foisted on the rest of us as a bargaining chip in labor negotiations even as none of the reasons for it doing so remain. Would be nice if at least SOME of the NL clubs raise their voice against it but, instead, the worst rule change in the history of the sport is going to pass without vocal opposition because it's going to be as part of a larger package making it inseparable from the whole. So Fuck you AL! And (as always) Fuck You Yanquis!!