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Players expressing anger at the Astros, Joel Sherman is nuts

41Forever Feb 18 2020 09:17 AM

Paul Byrd @PaulByrd36 “I'm angry! It's wrong. I've played my whole career clean and the right way. I'm hurt by it. And I'm disappointed with the way things have been handled by #MLB. Those guys still get to play. It's Bull&$!t!” - Nick Markakis on addressing the #Astros Scandal @FOXSportsBraves Interesting to see a growing number of players speaking out against the Astros -- and the MLB for how this has been handled. It's also a far question to players like Markakis to ask how he thinks his union would have responded to player sanctions. Then we have Joel Sherman, who proposes all kinds of goofy things he wants Manfred to do. This might be satire, but I'm not sure. [url]https://nypost.com/2020/02/17/how-rob-manfred-can-really-punish-astros-in-badly-needed-mulligan/ Among his punishments: 1. A three-year ban for any 2017 Astro — hitter or pitcher — from appearing in the All-Star Game. I love the All-Star Game, but keeping guys out of an exhibition game might not be an effective thing. 2. No member of the 2017 Astros should ever receive a postseason share again. This would seem unfair, because not every player benefited the same way. Banning JD Davis from getting his World Series bonus this year (I'm optimistic) doesn't seem fitting for his minor role. 3. For 2020 and 2021, in their 81 home games, the Astros have to bat in the top of all innings, rather than the bottom. Thus, they get the home field edge of the fan base, but not (among other things) last licks. This acknowledges the sign stealing was done mainly at Minute Maid Park. Was he drunk when he typed this? 4. No home playoff games for the next three seasons. We're punishing Astro fans now? 5. Houston does not get to host the All-Star Game for the next 15 years. Ownership did not receive nearly enough penalties for overseeing such a rogue organization. They had the game not all that long ago. They're probably not due for another 15 years anyway. 6. No international signings for 2021 and 2022. It is too late for this year This one almost makes sense. 7. Suspend Crane for two years. Manfred exonerated Crane the first time. Even if Crane was oblivious to what was going on — which he claims — he hired Luhnow. He hired Hinch. He created the tenor of an organization that claimed it had zero tolerance for domestic abuse, then traded for Roberto Osuna (so forgive me if I don't believe Astros leadership's word now that it will have zero tolerance for any further cheating). Crane ran an organization that not only hired and elevated Brandon Taubman but put out a malicious and incorrect press release to defend him during last year's playoffs. Unless the owner himself was doing the horrible thing -- like Steinbrenner was with Dave Winfield -- there's no way this will happen.

Benjamin Grimm Feb 18 2020 09:25 AM Re: Players expressing anger at the Astros, Joel Sherman is nuts

Well, it's hard to punish the team without punishing the fans in some way.

Ceetar Feb 18 2020 10:17 AM Re: Players expressing anger at the Astros, Joel Sherman is nuts

It's become very obvious which 'side' of this you're supposed to be on. If MLB does decide to investigate further, there's going to be a lot of egg. I can't read it, but today I saw a blurb from the Athletic that finally talked about the pitchers and switching up sign and such, and how stupid the mound visit thing was in response to pitchers and catchers maybe having to work a little harder to change up/remember signs.

Edgy MD Feb 18 2020 11:38 AM Re: Players expressing anger at the Astros, Joel Sherman is nuts

I applaud Joel Sherman's creativity, but I agree that his proposed punishments make little sense. If you have any issues before the court, I hope you don't get Judge Sherman.

Lefty Specialist Feb 18 2020 01:15 PM Re: Players expressing anger at the Astros, Joel Sherman is nuts

MLBPA would have reflexively fought any player sanctions. That's why Manfred didn't even try. He wanted this swept under the rug as quickly as possible and not dragged out by players fighting back. Just my .02. Now players on other teams may make it a bigger mess anyway, but I'm willing to bet that any player on an opposing team would have gone along with the scheme if they were an Astro. That's why I don't really buy the high dudgeon from other position players. Pitchers, though, they have a right to be pissed.

dgwphotography Feb 18 2020 01:26 PM Re: Players expressing anger at the Astros, Joel Sherman is nuts

I think we shouldn't dismiss that both of the opponents affected by this are in the two largest media markets in the country. Something tells me that this wouldn't be nearly as big of a story if the Astros beat the Indians and the Brewers.

Edgy MD Feb 18 2020 02:07 PM Re: Players expressing anger at the Astros, Joel Sherman is nuts

Let us keep in mind that it's the beginning of spring and there's little of substance to talk about. The comments of these players will probably blow over. As will Joel Sherman's hot takes.

nymr83 Feb 18 2020 02:18 PM Re: Players expressing anger at the Astros, Joel Sherman is nuts

Lefty Specialist wrote: MLBPA would have reflexively fought any player sanctions. That's why Manfred didn't even try. He wanted this swept under the rug as quickly as possible and not dragged out by players fighting back. Just my .02. Now players on other teams may make it a bigger mess anyway, but I'm willing to bet that any player on an opposing team would have gone along with the scheme if they were an Astro. That's why I don't really buy the high dudgeon from other position players. Pitchers, though, they have a right to be pissed. Yes & Yes. Furthermore, while it may be a PR disaster, it is better that Manfred did not choose to "punish players" and then fight the arbitration and possibly court battle for disciplining employees for completely undefined on-field behavior as it would have set a bad precedent when MLB lost that fight. Better to send a memo about cheating to everyone now laying out all the shit you can't do and the penalties going forward. sure pitchers should be pissed. but if the pitchers had concocted a cheating scheme where club interns dressed in white t shirts all run around the stadium to stand in the "batters eye" during the top of the inning, they'd have all have loved it too.

Benjamin Grimm Feb 18 2020 02:29 PM Re: Players expressing anger at the Astros, Joel Sherman is nuts

I have to think that the Houston pitchers knew what was going on. I wonder what they thought? They all must have known that they could one day be pitching to the Astros. And the Houston position players must have known that once one of their pitching teammates became opponents, they would speak up to their new teammates. This may have been a clever scheme, but the repercussions must not have been considered. It's could never have been possible that this wouldn't be discovered eventually.

Frayed Knot Feb 18 2020 03:03 PM Re: Players expressing anger at the Astros, Joel Sherman is nuts

Lefty Specialist wrote: MLBPA would have reflexively fought any player sanctions. That's why Manfred didn't even try. He wanted this swept under the rug as quickly as possible and not dragged out by players fighting back. Just my .02. Yes, but he also decided that he needed to give the players immunity in order to get at the facts. Had MLB's investigations ended with something along the lines of: We investigated the complaints of various teams against the Astros but were unable to confirm what methods they may or may not have taken to cause the whistling and drum-banging signals which clearly took place. We will continue to monitor the situation going forward - then that would truly reek of a cover up or maybe just plain ineptness. At least this way the hits that Hinch & Luhnow took should discourage any other team from trying the same. Now players on other teams may make it a bigger mess anyway, but I'm willing to bet that any player on an opposing team would have gone along with the scheme if they were an Astro. That's why I don't really buy the high dudgeon from other position players. Pitchers, though, they have a right to be pissed. This may be roughly analogous to the union and their steroid stance. The union heads were willing to fight that right up until the supreme court until the rank & file slowly made it apparent that protecting the few at the expense of the many wasn't going to fly with them. It's one thing to hear from those on teams most directly affected -- mainly Dodgers & Yanx -- but when those without a specific dog in the fight like Trout or Markakis (neither exactly known as controversial or chatty types) start weighing in I think it signals that the players weren't going to treat this as their version of a police union's blue wall.

Johnny Lunchbucket Feb 18 2020 03:37 PM Re: Players expressing anger at the Astros, Joel Sherman is nuts

I think in a real organization the handling of this whole thing-- plus the dumb rule changes--would get a CEO fired, but Manfred doesn't work for us as much as he pretends to.

Ceetar Feb 18 2020 06:00 PM Re: Players expressing anger at the Astros, Joel Sherman is nuts

Benjamin Grimm wrote: I have to think that the Houston pitchers knew what was going on. I wonder what they thought? They all must have known that they could one day be pitching to the Astros. literally Mike Fiers on top of that, i think it was the WSJ article on it, the As (which Fiers pitched for after) were one of the teams mentioned that didn't bother to change their signs and just let the Astros have them.