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2019 Rankings

Frayed Knot Feb 23 2020 07:14 PM

OK, one final piece of business to take care of from last season before we proceed to this next one. You know the drill: Top 30 2019 Mets ranked in order of contributions to that season. The top candidate (unlike that of the Democratic Party) looks to be a two man race, but will it be the CY winner or the Slugger? But how will the rest of the list look? And the results of this will also help to determine the Mets of the decade list. And you get to select your list from this fine set of candidates Hitters, as sorted by PA ALONSO - ROSARIO - CONFORTO - McNEIL - RAMOS FRAZIER - JD DAVIS - CANO - LAGARES - NIMMO SMITH - HECHAVARRIA - NIDO - PANIK - GOMEZ GUILLORME - BROXTON - ALTHERR - R DAVIS - d'ARNAUD RIVERA - TEJADA - LOWRIE - HAGGERTY Hurlers, by IP deGROM - SYNDERGAARD - WHEELER - MATZ - VARGAS LUGO - GSELLMAN - FAMILIA - STROMAN - DIAZ WILSON - AVILAN - FONT - GAGNON - LOCKETT BASHLOR - SEWALD - MAZZA - BRACH - FLEXEN ZAMORA - SANTIAGO - PETERSON - POUNDERS - OSWALT NOGOSEK - RHAME - O'ROURKE - HART (I already have no recall of who 'Hart' is and I just wrote down his name)

seawolf17 Feb 23 2020 07:28 PM Re: 2019 Rankings

I feel like every year, when this post hits, I'm like 100% sure we already did this.

seawolf17 Feb 23 2020 07:39 PM Re: 2019 Rankings

Also, since we didn't, here's my list: Alonso deGrom McNeil Conforto Syndergaard JD Davis Wheeler Frazier Ramos Rosario Lugo Matz Cano Nimmo Dom Smith Stroman Wilson Gsellman Vargas Lagares Brach Avilan Zamora Familia Diaz Font Panik Hechavarria Guillorme Rajai Davis Jeez, it gets ugly down at the bottom there quickly.

kcmets Feb 23 2020 08:38 PM Re: 2019 Rankings

I liked the year when Ceetar made a google spreadsheet that everyone could just add their own column. That was cool!

Gwreck Feb 24 2020 12:34 AM Re: 2019 Rankings

DeGrom Alonso McNeil Conforto Wheeler J. Davis Syndergaard Ramos Lugo Frazier Rosario Matz Stroman Vargas Wilson Cano Nimmo Smith Gsellman Brach Panik Avilan Font Guillorme Sewald Mazza R. Davis Hechavarria Flexen Gomez

Ceetar Feb 24 2020 07:06 AM Re: 2019 Rankings

I liked the year when Ceetar made a google spreadsheet that everyone could just add their own column. That was cool! I did that? I remember doing that for JCL's "Mets firsts" contest that he proposes and forgets about every year. But here, [url]https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1dq9QkdG9MAKrEI3SL26hl27p1WbHSS8veJdJe9cm4_0/edit?usp=sharing But I'd wait on official word from Frayed Knot (or his own spreadsheet) before adding stuff there. Whatever's easiest for him to sum up at the end.

kcmets Feb 24 2020 07:40 AM Re: 2019 Rankings

I did that? I remember doing that for JCL's "Mets firsts" contest that he proposes and forgets about every year. I could be conflating predictions and rankings with the senility and all settling in. Thanks for the link, I'm sure that will work splendidly for FK.

Vic Sage Feb 27 2020 08:07 AM Re: 2019 Rankings Edited 6 time(s), most recently on Mar 05 2020 09:26 AM

REVISED: I didn't include players that had the least PA, IP, and G, unless they had a positive WAR. This is based on the proposition that, if a guy only had a handful of appearances yet still managed to produce a negative WAR, then any fan sitting on his couch helped the Mets more by not playing at all. If you were a regular starter, no matter how bad, you contributed more with a catch here and a hit there than guys who barely played. Based on my determination, then, there were 35 "qualified" players, ranked in descending order: DeGrom Alonzo McNeil Wheeler Conforto Lugo Syndegaard Matz Ramos Frazier JDDavis Rosario Wilson Vargas Nimmo Stroman Cano D.Smith Brach Guillorme Gsellman Panik Font Avilan Sewald Nido Hecchavaria Familia Diaz Lagares qualified but not in top 30: gomez Mazza Lockett Bashlor Gagnon disqualified: Hitters, as sorted by PA: BROXTON - ALTHERR - R DAVIS - d'ARNAUD-RIVERA - TEJADA - LOWRIE - HAGGERTY Hurlers, by IP: FLEXEN -ZAMORA - SANTIAGO - PETERSON - POUNDERS - OSWALT- NOGOSEK - RHAME - O'ROURKE - HART

Frayed Knot Mar 04 2020 07:18 PM Re: 2019 Rankings

=seawolf17 post_id=32249 time=1582511329 user_id=91] I feel like every year, when this post hits, I'm like 100% sure we already did this.

One of these years I'm going to start this thread the day after the season ends and I'm convinced Wolfie will still claim that we had done this already.





Meanwhile, I've been struggling to get around to this for whatever reason.

I at least got through the hitters tonight:



ALONSO - Not going to beat out deGrom on my overall list, but clearly the best of the offensive bunch

McNEIL - Actually had a better RC/27 than Pistol Pete [7.40 vs 6.87] mainly on the strength of 26 extra points of OBA

CONFORTO - 63 XBHs is never a bad thing, even when you're expecting more

JD DAVIS - Had a better statistical year than Conforto but 200 fewer PA cost him the third slot

ROSARIO - Rough first half w/both the bat and glove, but came on strong as the year went on

FRAZIER - The last of the full-timers

NIMMO -

RAMOS -

CANO - Only occasional flashes of what he was/could-be

DOM SMITH - Was pretty good when he got the opportunities

LAGARES

NIDO

HECHAVARRIA

PANIK

GUILLORME

GOMEZ

Edgy MD Mar 04 2020 08:25 PM Re: 2019 Rankings

I love that everybody is finding space for Wilmer Font.

Edgy MD Mar 04 2020 08:40 PM Re: 2019 Rankings

Not me, though. Not quite. 1) Jacob deGrom 2) Peter Alonso 3) Zack Wheeler 4) Jeff McNeil 5) Noah Syndergaard 6) Michael Conforto 7) Amed Rosario 8) J.D. Davis 9) Seth Lugo 10) Steven Matz 11) Todd Frazier 12) Wilson Ramos 13) Brandon Nimmo 14) Jason Vargas 15) Dominic Smith 16) Robinson Canó 17) Marcus Stroman 18) Brad Brach 19) Robert Gsellman 20) Joe Panik 21) Justin Wilson 22) Paul Sewald 23) Luís Guillorme 24) Chris Mazza 25) René Rivera 26) Hector Santiago 27) Brooks Pounders 28) Edwin Díaz 29) Donnie Hart 30) Rajai Davis

seawolf17 Mar 05 2020 07:38 AM Re: 2019 Rankings

Frayed Knot wrote: One of these years I'm going to start this thread the day after the season ends and I'm convinced Wolfie will still claim that we had done this already. Yup. Edgy MD wrote: 29) Donnie Hart 30) Rajai Davis Rajai's lawyers would like to file a grievance.

Edgy MD Mar 05 2020 07:53 AM Re: 2019 Rankings

Throw a perfect inning and get back to us, Rajai.

Edgy MD Mar 05 2020 07:58 AM Re: 2019 Rankings

But sure, let's bump up guys who at least were out there grinding. 1) Jacob deGrom 2) Peter Alonso 3) Jeff McNeil 4) Zack Wheeler 5) Noah Syndergaard 6) Michael Conforto 7) Amed Rosario 8) J.D. Davis 9) Seth Lugo 10) Steven Matz 11) Todd Frazier 12) Wilson Ramos 13) Brandon Nimmo 14) Jason Vargas 15) Dominic Smith 16) Robinson Canó 17) Marcus Stroman 18) Brad Brach 19) Robert Gsellman 20) Joe Panik 21) Justin Wilson 22) Paul Sewald 23) Luís Guillorme 24) Chris Mazza 25) René Rivera 26) Edwin Díaz 27) Hector Santiago 28) Rajai Davis 29) Brooks Pounders 30) Donnie Hart

Benjamin Grimm Mar 05 2020 08:01 AM Re: 2019 Rankings

My apologies, but I'm going to have to let the Schaefer results stand as my contribution to this effort. I wasn't paying enough attention last year to be able to compare and contrast Brad Brach, Paul Sewald, Chris Mazza, Hector Santiago (who???), Brooks Pounders, and Donnie Hart.

Edgy MD Mar 05 2020 09:29 AM Re: 2019 Rankings

In fairness, I'm not sure all the defenders on the field at the time he was pitching remember Donnie Hart.

seawolf17 Mar 05 2020 10:27 AM Re: 2019 Rankings

Edgy MD wrote: In fairness, I'm not sure all the defenders on the field at the time he was pitching remember Donnie Hart. Quiz time, baby!

G-Fafif Mar 09 2020 02:02 PM Re: 2019 Rankings

30 Alonso 29 deGrom 28 McNeil 27 Lugo 26 Conforto 25 Wheeler 24 Ramos 23 Rosario 22 J.D. Davis 21 Syndergaard 20 Frazier 19 Matz 18 Cano 17 Wilson 16 Smith 15 Vargas 14 Stroman 13 Nimmo 12 Avilan 11 Gsellman 10 Diaz 9 Lagares 8 Brach 7 Hechavarria 6 Rajai Davis 5 Nido 4 Panik 3 Guillorme 2 Sewald 1 Gomez

Ceetar Mar 09 2020 02:43 PM Re: 2019 Rankings

Jacob deGrom 1 Zack Wheeler 2 Peter Alonso 3 Jeff McNeil 4 Noah Syndergaard 5 Michael Conforto 6 Amed Rosario 7 J.D. Davis 8 Seth Lugo 9 Steven Matz 10 Todd Frazier 11 Wilson Ramos 12 Brandon Nimmo 13 Jason Vargas 14 Dominic Smith 15 Robinson Cano 16 Marcus Stroman 17 Brad Brach 18 Robert Gsellman 19 Joe Panik 20 Justin Wilson 21 Paul Sewald 22 Luis Guillorme 23 Chris Mazza 24 Edwin Diaz 25 Rene Rivera 26 Brooks Pounders 27 Hector Santiago 28 Donnie Hart 29 Rajai Davis 30

Frayed Knot Mar 15 2020 08:12 PM Re: 2019 Rankings

On the pitching side there's no question about who is going to be top dog and little question as to the relievers being behind the starters deGROM - nuff said Wheeler - 1/3 run lower in ERA as compared to Syndergaard in essentially the same # of innings Syndergaard Lugo - a lower WHIP even than JdG Matz - same # of starts as the other starters but 35-45 fewer IP Wilson - a few too many walks and only a half-season of work, otherwise would be higher Vargas Stroman Gsellman Diaz Familia Avilan Seawald - wasn't good but was also unlucky to a ridiculous degree [sub-1.1 WHiP] Avilan Brach - getting some awfully high votes for a guy w/14 IP for the season Font And the lists combined: 30 - deGROM 29 - ALONSO 28 - McNEIL 27 - WHEELER 26 - SYNDERGAARD 25 - CONFORTO 24 - LUGO 23 - JD DAVIS 22 - MATZ 21 - ROSARIO 20 - FRAZIER 19 - WILSON 18 - RAMOS 17 - NIMMO 16 - CANO 15 - VARGAS 14 - STROMAN 13 - DOM SMITH 12 - GSELLMAN 11 - DIAZ 10 - LAGARES 9 - FAMILIA 8 - NIDO 7 - AVILAN 6 - SEAWALD 5 - HECHAVARRIA 4 - BRACH 3 - PANIK 2 - FONT 1 - GUILLORME

Frayed Knot Mar 15 2020 08:15 PM Re: 2019 Rankings

I was going to close this on (original) opening day, so let's stick to that date anyway. That means any additions, changes, arguments, counter arguments, or lawsuits need to be in as of one week from Wednesday (3/25)

Edgy MD Mar 15 2020 09:04 PM Re: 2019 Rankings

Lawsuit: There's only one A in SEWALD.

Vic Sage Mar 16 2020 10:04 AM Re: 2019 Rankings

FK, it's interesting (at least to me) that we had the same idea about who to include (with us having identical lists) but different philosophies about how to rank them (at least toward the bottom). We both weighed ABs/IP/G appearances as criteria for inclusion, but once having included a player, i chose to list those who made a net positive contribution in more limited opportunities over players who had a net negative impact in many more opportunities. IOW, once I decided a player should be included on the list of 30, their greater (-) WAR weighed even more heavily against them the more they played.

Edgy MD Mar 16 2020 12:36 PM Re: 2019 Rankings

Edgy MD wrote: Lawsuit: There's only one A in SEWALD. There should also be an accent mark over the second A in AVILÁN. EVERYTHING'S GOING TO HELL!

Frayed Knot Mar 19 2020 07:19 PM Re: 2019 Rankings

Vic Sage wrote: FK, it's interesting (at least to me) that we had the same idea about who to include (with us having identical lists) but different philosophies about how to rank them (at least toward the bottom). We both weighed ABs/IP/G appearances as criteria for inclusion, but once having included a player, i chose to list those who made a net positive contribution in more limited opportunities over players who had a net negative impact in many more opportunities. IOW, once I decided a player should be included on the list of 30, their greater (-) WAR weighed even more heavily against them the more they played. Hadn't realized that we had the same list. I make it a point not to look at other lists until I complete my own. That whole quantity-vs-quality thing has long been the biggest question mark in this project and the one subject to the greatest range of interpretation. I've generally tended to side over the years with the idea that, while it would be nice if the short-term success story had been given more opportunities to shine, the fact is he wasn't and so his contributions were limited. On the flip side, the idea that a replacement type of player being an upgrade on struggling regular is more one on which to judge a GM or a long term strategy of building a team than it is for this project. That Diaz & Familia weren't good in 2019 (and certainly not as good as hoped but we're not supposed to be grading on a curve here) isn't in question. But just their everyday-ness means they also had more than a few good outings as well, something that a September call-up would have trouble matching in only a dozen or so innings. I'm going to review my list before ending this thing next week -- **closing next Wednesday night for anyone who wants to add and change** -- and may change of few things, particularly on those where I differ widely from the general consensus. Or a I may not change anything at all, but I'm open to considering. As things stand now: SEAWOLF is low on Vargas & Panik compared to the consensus, higher than the rest on Familia, Lagares VIC SAGE is low on Diaz, high on Wilson & Nido GWRECK is low on Diaz (no score at all) while having Font higher than most EDGY is low on Avilan (with or w/o the accent) while high on several short-termers: Mazza, Rivera, Santiago CEETAR also left Avilan pointless in favor of the likes of Pounders, Mazza, Rivera GFaFiF likes Brach less than most but R. Davis more so FK is low on both Brach & Guillorme, high on Wilson, Lagares & Familia If anyone does change their list in any way before next week, put those changes into a new list; I won't necessarily see those changes if you just edit the old one.

Frayed Knot Mar 26 2020 06:49 PM Re: 2019 Rankings

And the final tally for the 2019 season is ... RANK PLAYER 30 JACOB deGROM 29 PETE ALONSO 28 JEFF McNEIL 27 MICHAEL CONFORTO 26 ZACK WHEELER 25 NOAH SYNDERGAARD 24 JD DAVIS 23 AMED ROSARIO 22 SETH LUGO 21 WILSON RAMOS 20 TODD FRAZIER 19 STEVEN MATZ 18 JASON VARGAS 17 ROBINSON CANO 16 BRANDON NIMMO 15 DOM SMITH 14 MARCUS STROMAN 13 JUSTIN WILSON 12 ROBERT GSELLMAN 11 BRAD BRACH 10 JOE PANIK 9 EDWIN DIAZ 8 LUIS AVILAN 7 LUIS GUILLORME 6 PAUL SEWALD 5 JUAN LAGARES 4 WILMER FONT 3 ADEINY HECHAVARRIA 2 CHRIS MAZZA 1 JEURYS FAMILIA

Frayed Knot Mar 26 2020 06:59 PM Re: 2019 Rankings

So the (somewhat) successful 2019 season includes seven players who are (at least for the moment) Top-100 Mets, plus another one who just misses. * Jacob deGrom - Now stands at the 14th best Met ever (up from 22 last year) passing two announcers and [CROSSOUT]his manager[/CROSSOUT] along the way. JdG's points this year saw him leap over Darling, Muffy, Grote McGraw, Mookie, Leiter, Keith, and Mr. Beltran * Noah Syndergaard - 40 (up from 56, but not moving up from there anytime soon) * Michael Conforto - 48 (74) * Zack Wheeler - 52 (75) * Jeurys Familia - 72 (70) he drops two slots on account of passing no one while being passed by Conforto & Wheeler * Juan Lagares - 82 (stayed right where he was) * Steven Matz - 98 (129) Seth Lugo - 103 (144) Jeff McNeil - 114 (216) - sneaking one slot ahead of Eddie Murray for best ever two-year Met Brandon Nimmo - 129 (146) Amed Rosario - 147 (248) Robert Gsellman - 160 (180) Pete Alonso - debuts at 164 making him the second highest rated one-year player (Mike Hampton @ #149) Todd Frazier - 181 (299) JD Davis - debuts at 218 Wilson Ramos - debuts at 263 Jason Vargas - 264 (458) Robinson Cano - debuts at 329 Dom Smith - didn't get any points for 2018 so he debuts on our list this year at 364 Marcus Stroman - debuts at 387 Justin Wilson - debuts at 403 Brad Brach - debuts at 449 Joe Panik - debuts at 477 Paul Sewald - 489 (526) Edwin Diaz - debuts at 502 Luis Avilan - debuts at 520 Luis Guillorme - debuts at 546 Wilmer Font - debuts at 632 Adeiny Hechavarria - debuts at 661 Chris Mazza - debuts at 681 (out of 716 ranked players)

Edgy MD Mar 26 2020 08:09 PM Re: 2019 Rankings

Great work. Surprised to see Nimmo still sitting a long throw from the Hot 100.

Frayed Knot Apr 22 2020 06:39 PM Re: 2019 Rankings

This needs to be moved to the Rankings Forum before it gets gobbled up by the archive fairy. Speaking of which, we seem to be missing a bunch of the years in that forum. Were they lost in the last software update or something?

kcmets Apr 22 2020 06:55 PM Re: 2019 Rankings

Frayed Knot wrote: Speaking of which, we seem to be missing a bunch of the years in that forum. Were they lost in the last software update or something? I was on a roll for awhile and then stopped and forgot about resuming. I'll take a look at it again and see what we can do to add the missing years with what we have available to us still.

Frayed Knot Apr 23 2020 01:08 PM Re: 2019 Rankings

Oh I've still got the data from all the seasons so nothing is LOST lost, and I can easily recreate all the lists. I just couldn't remember when and why so many years went missing from the Rankings Forum.

kcmets Apr 23 2020 01:23 PM Re: 2019 Rankings

I have archived commentary and stuff too. I'll get moving on it again soon.