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Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

Benjamin Grimm Mar 27 2020 08:46 AM

Lots of stuff here... USA Today wrote: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season Bob Nightengale USA TODAY Major League Baseball and the Major League Players Association reached a tentative agreement Thursday evening on key economic issues in hopes of salvaging the majority of the 162-game season, according to an executive with direct knowledge of the negotiations, even if it means playing the World Series in late November. Major League Baseball owners will vote Friday to officially ratify the agreement, two executives with knowledge of the negotiations told USA TODAY Sports. The two executives spoke only on the condition of anonymity since the deal has not been finalized. The deal includes a commitment from MLB and the players to play as close to a full regular-season schedule as possible, with games in October and a postseason in November, providing the COVID-19 crisis dissipates and permits them to even start a season. The two sides would like to play at least 100 games, with the hopes of playing as many as possible, scheduling regular-season games through October and including weekly doubleheaders. They have also discussed the idea of expanding the current playoff format to help offset the loss of income, while acknowledging that if cold weather becomes an issue in November, they could move the World Series and playoff series from cold-weather cities to a neutral site. The biggest issue in the negotiations was service time, and the two sides agreed that if there's a season of any length, players would receive credit for a full year as if it was a regular 162-game season. And if the season is canceled, players will receive the same service time they accrued in 2019. This means that Los Angeles Dodgers All-Star outfielder Mookie Betts, who was acquired along with former Cy Young winner David Price in February from the Boston Red Sox, could be a free agent without playing a single regular-season game for the Dodgers. The two sides also have decided to still have an amateur draft this summer, although it will be reduced to five rounds instead of the usual 40 rounds, according to The Athletic. The players will no longer get their signing bonuses up-front, and it instead will be deferred, which ESPN first reported, paying 10% now and 45% percent in the following two years. Teams have also pledged to pay players on 40-man rosters a lump sum of at $170 million in upfront money, based on a sliding scale with service time. Players are scheduled to receive their first paychecks on April 15, and if the season resumes, they would be paid on a pro-rated scale based on how many games are played. In the meantime, clubs have also promised their full-time employees that they will continue to receive their salary through April 30 with no layoffs. Yet, several employees say they have received a warning letter from their club, which gives a 60-day notice on potential mass layoffs. Major League Baseball's best hope is to start the season around June 1, and no later than July 1, simply picking up the original schedule when it resumes, but are following the lead of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. Once teams are given permission to start working out again, it's quite possible that instead of having their teams return to their spring-training sites for a minimum of two weeks, players will work out at their team's own home ballparks, reducing further expenses, and expediting the start before the new opening day. Teams likely will open the season with expanded rosters for the first month as well, and instead of having 26-man rosters, increasing to as many as 30 players. It remains unknown how long Major League Baseball and the union would be willing to play with no fans permitted in the stands, how they would adjust the unplayed schedule to make it equitable for all teams. Those questions can wait, but for now the two sides are hoping to make an announcement on what was scheduled to be the opening day of the 2020 season that they have reached an agreement on several critical economic issues, and praying there still will be an opening day sometime this summer. https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/mlb/2020/03/26/mlb-players-agree-deal-preserve-service-time-hold-draft/2923380001/

Willets Point Mar 27 2020 08:58 AM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

Seems overly ambitious to me.

seawolf17 Mar 27 2020 12:26 PM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

Just *five* rounds for the draft? What the heck?

41Forever Mar 27 2020 01:01 PM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

The October games could be a little chilly. I don't love neutral sites for baseball, but as a one-year thing given the circumstances it could be OK. Trying to think who has domes/ retractable domes: Tampa, Miami, Houston, Texas, Milwaukee, Arizona, Toronto... I've not been to Safeco, but is that something that seals the stadium and controls climate, or is just a cover for rain?

Frayed Knot Mar 27 2020 01:03 PM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

Yeah, I'm not sure how reducing the draft fits in to all this.

Chad ochoseis Mar 27 2020 01:09 PM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

=41Forever post_id=34215 time=1585335715 user_id=69] I've not been to Safeco, but is that something that seals the stadium and controls climate, or is just a cover for rain?

Many years since I've been there, but I remember it as a rain cover. But I don't believe it gets that cold in Seattle in November.

batmagadanleadoff Mar 27 2020 01:29 PM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

Chad ochoseis wrote: =41Forever post_id=34215 time=1585335715 user_id=69] I've not been to Safeco, but is that something that seals the stadium and controls climate, or is just a cover for rain? Many years since I've been there, but I remember it as a rain cover. But I don't believe it gets that cold in Seattle in November.

I've read several articles already describing this, exactly. Florida, with its 29 electoral votes, is the big swing-state prize. And at the state level, the GOP has an iron grip over Florida.

Frayed Knot Mar 27 2020 01:45 PM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

Safeco is NOT an air-tight/air-controlled stadium. For the most part Seattle never gets cold-cold but that doesn't mean it'll be pleasant. You get a lot of damp and chilly in winter, 40s & 50s mostly and weeks without seeing the sun. This is opposed to the summer where it's damp and drizzly but the temp often rockets up into the 60s

batmagadanleadoff Mar 27 2020 01:55 PM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

If MLB has to play games in the cold November season, I doubt it'll play games in Seattle. Open air stadiums in LA and San !Diego before Seattle.

smg58 Mar 28 2020 09:01 AM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

=seawolf17 post_id=34209 time=1585333577 user_id=91] Just *five* rounds for the draft? What the heck?

It's impossible to do due diligence on that many players right now. But I think it's already a lost season for rookie leagues.

nymr83 Mar 28 2020 11:20 PM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

=smg58 post_id=34245 time=1585407670 user_id=62] =seawolf17 post_id=34209 time=1585333577 user_id=91] Just *five* rounds for the draft? What the heck?

It's impossible to do due diligence on that many players right now. But I think it's already a lost season for rookie leagues.


The High School season in northern states likely barely started. Not sure about college. There is going to be a real lack of recent info on a lot of these guys.

Frayed Knot Mar 29 2020 04:08 AM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

The NCAA preemptively canceled ALL spring sports seasons right around the time the hoops tourney was nixed. HS were/are being handled on an individual/state basis but most of those seasons likely never started either.

Benjamin Grimm Mar 29 2020 05:01 PM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

Rumor has it that they may cancel the AllStar game in order to get more actual games in. I think it's a good idea.

Frayed Knot Mar 29 2020 06:55 PM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

I'm on board with that. And I know that their aim is to get in as much season as possible prior to getting the same amount (if not more) post-season action. But I wouldn't mind seeing it go the other way: Get more regular season in before going to an abbreviated playoff. Either go right to the LCS & WS or I wouldn't even mind going straight to the WS; scrap the divisions for this year only and then match up each league's best for a last week in October seven game special, and if you can cut out the 'travel days' so as to make it seven in a row then even better. None of that will happen because the sport wants the money and the networks are starved to get their programming back at this point. Shyeet, they were showing 15 year old basketball games and six y/o golf tourneys on network TV on a March Sunday afternoon fer crissakes.

Edgy MD Mar 29 2020 07:38 PM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

I'm curious if they will pick a mid-season All-Star Team anyway. They probably will, I would guess, since there's so much marketing and sponsorship tied up in it. I'd come out in favor of them having a post-season All-Star Game, but everything is so day-to-day at this point, planning for November feels beyond silly.

ashie62 Mar 29 2020 09:32 PM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

I don't see football, pro or college playing in 2020. Baseball?? One big tournament maybe

Edgy MD Apr 02 2020 11:33 AM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

I'm curious if undrafted players who would have been chosen in the sixth-10th round, now able to shop their skills to all teams, will start getting bigger bonuses than the fifth-rounders. Such a circumstance would hopefully lead amateur players and their agents to begin to greater assertion of rights, leading to the unraveling of the draft outright.

Benjamin Grimm Apr 02 2020 11:59 AM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

I was wondering that too. A lot more high school and college kids are going to essentially be free agents.

HahnSolo Apr 02 2020 01:06 PM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

I would bet more HS kids will go the college route without the certainty of a signing bonus.

Frayed Knot Apr 02 2020 02:57 PM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

=HahnSolo post_id=34571 time=1585854380 user_id=63] I would bet more HS kids will go the college route without the certainty of a signing bonus.

Or possibly JuCo which doesn't carry the same 3 year commitment. What would be interesting to see is if anyone tries going the indy-ball route.

Part of MLB's justification for pruning back both the draft and the affiliated minor leagues was that indy leagues could pick up some of the slack.

Edgy MD Apr 02 2020 03:14 PM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

The problem with the "college route" theory is that the number of slots available there, as far as I can tell, will remain finite, and possibly smaller. Last I checked, NCAA teams were limited to something like 11.7 full scholarships per school, along with (I think) one paid coach in addition to the manager, which is just horrible from where I sit. I know the limit on football scholarships isn't 500 per school, along with 50 coaches, but it sure seems like it. How many ways can men in suits fuck with young athletes and their hopes to get something out of their skillz while they are still able to.

Willets Point Apr 02 2020 04:02 PM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

It just occurred to me that if this continues into summer the college summer leagues will be affected, like on Cape Cod, which would really suck.

Edgy MD Apr 02 2020 04:53 PM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

With the spring season seeming lost, those summer leagues may be the last chance for some players to get noticed.

Benjamin Grimm Apr 05 2020 06:28 PM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

One plan reportedly being considered is that all games would be played, with no fans in attendance, at Cactus League parks in Arizona. Apparently they're less spread out than the parks in Florida.

Johnny Lunchbucket Apr 06 2020 06:26 AM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

Yes, it seems even if/when we get this thing under control the chances of recurrence seem pretty likely if you gather 40000 people in the same place. If they did get it off "live" you'd probably have to arrange assigned seats 3 rows and 6 seats apart, regulate flow into the restrooms, ban concessions. Just getting into the park in normal circumsatances is about impossible as it is, prepare to arrive 3 hours early.

Edgy MD Apr 06 2020 06:47 AM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

And all those logistical problems would seemingly make it hardly worth the while, let alone the expense, for the league. On the other hand, if they start playing in Arizona, TV ratings would be through the roof.

Johnny Lunchbucket Apr 06 2020 06:54 AM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

yup.

Ceetar Apr 06 2020 07:07 AM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

Edgy MD wrote: On the other hand, if they start playing in Arizona, TV ratings would be through the roof. it'd be nice if they relaxed blackout rules, which of course they won't.

Lefty Specialist Apr 06 2020 07:10 AM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

Ron Darling doesn't think there'll be a 2020 season. He said, what if you start playing and someone tests positive? You'd have to shut it all down again. There is no way college or pro football could play this year. We won't get back to games for real until there's a vaccine.

Ceetar Apr 06 2020 07:21 AM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

Vaccine's generally take upwards of a year. but TESTING. build in regular testing of players and isolate and quarantine. build into the schedule time so that a team that test positive can take 10 days or whatever off and so can their current opponent, and their last opponent and their current opponent. This would be better with them NOT all playing together in Arizona I suppose.

MFS62 Apr 06 2020 07:29 AM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season Edited 3 time(s), most recently on Apr 06 2020 07:37 AM

I hope they'll wait until after what would have been the Hall of Fame induction ceremony, so we won't have to watch a DH get inducted. (Hope this link works. It was part of a much longer email I get daily from mlb.com. https://www.mlb.com/news/hall-of-famers-who-benefited-from-designated-hitter-rule?partnerId=zh-20200406-156906-47943&query_id=1026&bt_ee=wFqCupZZ2oFY8SNJlldr8R2dLFsgBy48twcB%2FNto%2BVIqEa0yxZKe%2BQXIgyODgtah&bt_ts=1586172964245 When the rule was first instituted by MBL, I was concerned about how it would artificially prolong the careers of players, allowing them to compile counting stats and one day lead to Hall pollution. This writer gives some examples: [code] When the Yankees' Ron Blomberg stepped to the plate against Red Sox right-hander Luis Tiant at Fenway Park on April 6, 1973, Major League Baseball changed forever. In this landmark moment, Blomberg became the first designated hitter in MLB history. American League owners had voted to approve the DH rule (Rule 5.11) on a trial basis in January, and Boston hosted New York in the first MLB game of the 1973 season, giving Blomberg this unique distinction. Rule 5.11 would eventually become permanent in the AL. Over the years, the DH spot has been used for a variety of purposes, including hiding defensively challenged players, giving regular position players a break and relieving positional logjams. The rule also has had a larger impact on the Hall of Fame than you might realize. The Hall doesn't yet have a player who played at least 70% of his games at DH (David Ortiz could change this when he's first eligible in 2022), but the seven inductees below each saw significant time as a DH. In fact, if not for the DH rule, all of these players' careers might have ended much sooner, leaving them short of the statistical benchmarks that made induction possible. (Players listed in order based on career Wins Above Replacement, per Baseball-Reference, and career stats included for each player through the last year he played more games in the field than he did at DH.) Paul Molitor, 1978-98 (75.7 bWAR) Through 1990: 1,870 hits, 131 HR, 626 RBIs, .299/.361/.437 Molitor was a three-time All-Star and two-time Silver Slugger Award winner over his first 13 seasons, but he battled injury problems and played fewer than 120 games six times during that span. Then, at age 34 in 1991, Molitor shifted to DH on a regular basis and stayed healthy for 158 games, leading MLB in hits (216) and runs (133) while slashing .325/.399/.489. Molitor ended up collecting 1,449 hits after 1990, reaching 3,000 in '96. He was the DH in 976 of his 1,143 games from 1991-98. Frank Thomas, 1990-2008 (73.8 bWAR) Through 1997: 1,261 hits, 257 HR, 854 RBIs, .330/.452/.600 Thomas is one of three Hall of Famers, along with Edgar Martinez and Harold Baines, who played more than half of his games at DH, though just 231 of his DH appearances came over his first eight seasons. The White Sox opted to move him off first base in 1998, and he played 131 games at first the rest of his career. This didn't help Thomas avoid injuries entirely -- he played fewer than 75 games in four seasons from 2001-08 -- but the DH spot gave his powerful bat a home through his 40th birthday. Thomas slugged 145 homers over his final six seasons and became the 21st member of the 500 home run club in 2007. Jim Thome, 1991-2012 (72.9 bWAR) Through 2005: 1,665 hits, 430 HR, 1,193 RBIs, .281/.408/.562 Thome averaged 41 home runs per season from 1996-2004, but in '05, he played just 59 games and hit .207 with seven homers and a .712 OPS before undergoing season-ending right elbow surgery. Traded from the Phillies to the White Sox in November 2005, Thome would make only eight more appearances on defense thereafter. Thome was reinvigorated as Chicago's DH in 2006, hitting .288/.416/.598 with 42 round-trippers and 109 RBIs over 143 games. The lefty slugger joined the 500 home run club a few months after Thomas in 2007, and four years later became the eighth player to reach 600 homers. Eddie Murray, 1977-97 (68.7 bWAR) Through 1993: 2,820 hits, 441 HR, 1,662 RBIs, .290/.364/.483 With three-time All-Star Lee May at first base, the DH spot allowed Murray to receive regular playing time with the Orioles in 1977, when he won AL Rookie of the Year honors. Murray took over as Baltimore's starting first baseman the following season and held that role until 1988, before moving to the National League for five years. He returned to the AL with the Indians in 1994 at 38 years old, sitting 180 hits shy of 3,000 and 59 homers away from 500. Appearing as a DH in 371 of his 428 games from 1994-97, Murray became the third player in history to record both 3,000 hits and 500 home runs, joining Willie Mays and Hank Aaron. Edgar Martinez, 1987-2004 (68.4 bWAR) Through 1994: 686 hits, 62 HR, 268 RBIs, .303/.391/.460 Martinez is the poster child for the DH position; the award for the league's top designated hitter has been named after him since 2004, and he played 68.3% of his career games as a DH, the highest among Hall of Famers. Martinez was a capable defender at third base early in his career, but injuries took their toll, relegating him to permanent DH duties in 1995. The slugger really blossomed that year, hitting .356/.479/.628 with 29 homers, 52 doubles and 113 RBIs over 145 games. Martinez would record an OPS of .966 or higher in seven straight seasons from 1995-2001, eclipsing the 1.000 mark five times in that stretch. Dave Winfield, 1973-95 (64.2 bWAR) Through 1991: 2,697 hits, 406 HR, 1,602 RBIs, .285/.354/.479 Although Winfield remained a regular outfielder through age 39, he was able to hang around for another four seasons thanks to the DH spot. Those years allowed the 12-time All-Star to pad his resume, as he finished fifth in the AL MVP race and won the only World Series title of his career with the Blue Jays in 1992. Winfield then joined the Twins and reached the 3,000-hit plateau the next season. Like Molitor, Thomas, Thome and Murray, Winfield was elected to the Hall of Fame by the Baseball Writers' Association of America in his first year of eligibility. Harold Baines, 1980-2001 (38.7 bWAR) Through 1986: 1,077 hits, 140 HR, 589 RBIs, .287/.331/.468 Baines made just five appearances as a designated hitter over his first seven seasons, but he ended up playing 58.1% of his career games as a DH, second to only Martinez among Hall of Famers. Baines racked up 1,789 of his 2,866 career hits, 244 of his 384 homers and 1,039 of his 1,628 RBIs from 1987-2001, a stretch in which he made only 81 appearances on defense. He was elected to the Hall of Fame by the Today's Game Committee in 2019. [/code] OE, Martinez was inducted last year. Too Late. Later

Ceetar Apr 06 2020 07:32 AM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

is Edgar Martinez not in? cause he's a hall of famer regardless of what some idiot writers say.

Edgy MD Apr 06 2020 08:37 AM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

=Ceetar post_id=34717 time=1586179265 user_id=102] Vaccine's generally take upwards of a year. but TESTING. build in regular testing of players and isolate and quarantine. build into the schedule time so that a team that test positive can take 10 days or whatever off and so can their current opponent, and their last opponent and their current opponent. This would be better with them NOT all playing together in Arizona I suppose.

I have confidence that this could work, so long as clusterfuckers aren't running the show.



I have less confidence that clusterfuckers won't be in charge of everything.



Edgar Martinez isn't a DH. He's a baseball player. A wonderful baseball player.

Edgy MD Apr 06 2020 10:10 AM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

And while I sing of high ratings if they bring baseball back, I can only speculate on how big an attraction empty stadium baseball might be after a few weeks.

Willets Point Apr 06 2020 10:14 AM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

The downside of Arizona (and Florida) in the summer is that it's beastly hot. They can schedule all night games, but that will mean late starts for East Coast fans. Mind you, late-night televised baseball from blazing hot Arizona is better than no baseball.

seawolf17 Apr 06 2020 01:35 PM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

Willets Point wrote: The downside of Arizona (and Florida) in the summer is that it's beastly hot. They can schedule all night games, but that will mean late starts for East Coast fans. Mind you, late-night televised baseball from blazing hot Arizona is better than no baseball. And hey! It's not like we have to get up early.

Edgy MD Apr 06 2020 02:51 PM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

Well there'd be two home teams per park, right? So scheduling could be a real pain in the ass. But there could be an early slot for easterly teams and a later slot for westerly ones. On the other hand, if all you need is a decent field and some modest press facilities, they can even use auxiliary diamonds in the spring complexes, provided the lights were good.

Benjamin Grimm Apr 06 2020 03:05 PM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

I imagine the telecasts wouldn't be as polished as what we're used to, with cameras everywhere recording from a variety of angles. But I can live without that. Baseball would be a wonderful distraction and we need it now more than ever. (I think FDR said something similar about keeping the game going during World War II.) It would affect the instant replay review, with fewer camera angles to examine. Probably would lead to shorter reviews and fewer overturned calls.

Benjamin Grimm Apr 06 2020 03:10 PM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

Franklin Delano Roosevelt to Kennesaw Mountain Landis wrote: I honestly feel that it would be best for the country to keep baseball going... There will be fewer people unemployed and everybody will work longer hours and harder than ever before. And that means that they ought to have a chance for recreation and for taking their minds off their work even more than before. Here is another way of looking at it. If 300 teams use 5,000 or 6,000 players, these players are a definite recreational asset to at least 20,000,000 of their fellow citizens. And that, in my judgment, is thoroughly worthwhile. The particulars are different now, of course. I'm not sure that minor league games would be played, and there wouldn't be the ancillary employment of ticket takers, vendors, parking lot attendants, etc. But we can certainly use the "recreational asset" if a way can be found to do it safely. Catchers already wear masks... why not let everyone else wear them as well?

Edgy MD Apr 06 2020 09:48 PM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

I just realize MLB can make a FANTASTIC amount of $$ with team-trademarked face masks.

G-Fafif Apr 07 2020 12:36 AM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

Jeff Passan reports details that would seem crazy-ass in less lunatic times. Actually they're still pretty bananas. https://t.co/zDoNa3k4pm?amp=1

Edgy MD Apr 07 2020 06:28 AM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

Check out MLB, seeing opportunity in crisis. • Implementing an electronic strike zone to allow the plate umpire to maintain sufficient distance from the catcher and batter Going nuclear on replacing ups with tech! • No mound visits from the catcher or pitching coach Going nuclear on the pace-of-game policies. • Seven-inning doubleheaders, which with an earlier-than-expected start date could allow baseball to come closer to a full 162-game season Going big on the crazy Lunchbucket plan! • Regular use of on-field microphones by players, as an added bonus for TV viewers Going big on acknowledging that their fear of digital communications helped make the Houston sign-stealing scandal possible! • Sitting in the empty stands 6 feet apart -- the recommended social-distancing space -- instead of in a dugout A preview of what it's going to be like once fans return to the stands, mentally prepping the public!

Benjamin Grimm Apr 07 2020 06:33 AM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

Geez, I hope they find a way to make this work. And safely, of course, not recklessly. It's nice that they're trying to coordinate with recommendations from the federal government. It would be even nicer if the federal government was competent. (Hopefully they'll talk to the doctors and scientists and not the political hacks.) Baseball on TV in May? Sign me up for a no-contact home delivery of peanuts and Crackerjack!

nymr83 Apr 07 2020 07:42 AM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

Edgy MD wrote: Check out MLB, seeing opportunity in crisis. • Implementing an electronic strike zone to allow the plate umpire to maintain sufficient distance from the catcher and batter Going nuclear on replacing ups with tech! • No mound visits from the catcher or pitching coach Going nuclear on the pace-of-game policies. Backdooring that strike zone in there is awesome. and i always hated mound visits from the dugout - i'm fine with the catcher needing to get on the same page but they shouldnt need coaching midgame.

Ceetar Apr 07 2020 07:57 AM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

I was going to go with "acknowledging the growth of e-sports" for the microphone thing. Have the whole team mic'd up, why not.

Willets Point Apr 07 2020 08:40 AM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

30 teams playing in 10 ballparks with doubleheaders? I don't see how the math works out on that one unless they start playing games in the morning in the brutal heat.

Edgy MD Apr 07 2020 10:54 AM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

Well, these are spring training complexes, so they might use secondary fields simultaneously with the primary ones. Plus college and minor league facilities are available. Also, since the minor-league season will either be cancelled or seriously curtailed, they might go with full 40-player rosters.

G-Fafif Apr 07 2020 11:33 AM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

Tag plays will be interesting. At least they'll be wearing gloves...which ballplayers love talking into while communicating with their teammates six inches from their face. Yeah, this has a great chance to work.

Lefty Specialist Apr 07 2020 11:34 AM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

Basically you're holding MLB players prisoner for 4 1/2 months. Not sure how that'll work. But ratings for this would be through the goddamn roof if they manage to pull it off. What about announcers? I can't see Keith locking himself in a hotel room in Arizona. Who would feed Hadji?

Ceetar Apr 07 2020 01:16 PM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

Lefty Specialist wrote: Basically you're holding MLB players prisoner for 4 1/2 months. Not sure how that'll work. But ratings for this would be through the goddamn roof if they manage to pull it off. What about announcers? I can't see Keith locking himself in a hotel room in Arizona. Who would feed Hadji? I don't think holding them hostage is going to be part of the solution. It'd have to come with the testing and early warning stuff. They'd still be able to go home to their families, who hopefully are quarantining as well. You'd have to have confidence that you could contain any outbreak among the population (including stadium workers) so that you're not spreading the virus. It's all about testing. So if Gary and Keith and Ron are not testing positive, you're not really worried about them sharing a booth. If one tests positive, you treat them all as positive and isolate them. New booth. YOu could do shift work too, where they work one week, and then we only have away broadcasts for the next week, etc. It might make sense to have more than just Arizona too. Pick 4 locations so that if one is contaminated you can still have the other three playing while you're making sure you're not spreading the virus. It's a lot of logistics. It's still unlikely without testing.

Benjamin Grimm Apr 07 2020 01:18 PM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

I'd look at Hawaii. Surely there are 15 decent baseball diamonds on the island of Oahu.

Edgy MD Apr 07 2020 01:38 PM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

Lefty Specialist wrote: Basically you're holding MLB players prisoner for 4 1/2 months. Not sure how that'll work. But ratings for this would be through the goddamn roof if they manage to pull it off. What about announcers? I can't see Keith locking himself in a hotel room in Arizona. Who would feed Hadji? Anybody can be an announcer, and considering the $$ and the scarcity of jobs, I imagine few would walk away from the season. I also imagine that, if they are able to get things started and maintain controls and positive tests don't start popping up, they will slowly start to integrate players families in.

Lefty Specialist Apr 07 2020 01:39 PM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

Players, coaching staffs and other essential personnel would be sequestered at local hotels, where they would live in relative isolation and travel only to and from the stadium, sources said. That doesn't sound like they could bring their families. And they wouldn't go anywhere but the hotel and the stadium. Sounds pretty draconian.

Edgy MD Apr 07 2020 01:40 PM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

No, not initially, but eventually, we will all have to try to re-integrate.

Benjamin Grimm Apr 07 2020 02:16 PM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

Lefty Specialist wrote: And they wouldn't go anywhere but the hotel and the stadium. Sounds pretty draconian. Book them in a nice resort with their families. (Another argument for Hawaii over Arizona.)

bmfc1 Apr 07 2020 05:07 PM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

How many players go into the bubble? You'll need backups in case someone gets hurt or Paul Sewald stinks (just an example) so where are the replacement players and what are they doing?

batmagadanleadoff Apr 07 2020 05:51 PM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

And then what about the hotel workers? Are they sequestered, too? Or do they get to go back to their families after their shifts? And then to the groceries and the banks and post offices? And then back to the hotels for next day's games?

Edgy MD Apr 07 2020 08:09 PM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

Again, they may have really bloated rosters, so replacing the Sewalds won't be an issue. They could, in theory, house the AAA teams in Arizona, also, and try to play something like a AAA season out there. I don't think field space will be an issue. Maybe the rest of the players remain in Florida. All those logistical problems are real, though. Re-integration procedures will have to occur eventually though, and while the challenge is to anticipate all those possibilities, it's hard to imagine it coming off without a hitch. That said, MLB has seemingly made far more grown-up decisions than The White House so far. I know that's setting the bar low, but somebody has to show leadership.

ashie62 Apr 07 2020 08:12 PM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

4 1/2 months sequestered in an Arizona hotel playing baseball daily in intense heat. There are worse things

Frayed Knot Apr 07 2020 08:20 PM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

Let's just say that there are a ton of logistical details to work out before this even has a chance at being implemented. fwiw, MLB says this is merely one of numerous ideas that they're contemplating and that it (at least at the time it was being leaked) had yet to be discussed with the players. But they gotta plan ahead for what might happen before rather than do nothing and then try and figure it out on the run later. iow, MLB is trying to be the anti-White House

Ceetar Apr 08 2020 07:54 AM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

Lefty Specialist wrote: Players, coaching staffs and other essential personnel would be sequestered at local hotels, where they would live in relative isolation and travel only to and from the stadium, sources said. That doesn't sound like they could bring their families. And they wouldn't go anywhere but the hotel and the stadium. Sounds pretty draconian. Maybe their families could could be included. maybe they should, to limit hotel personnel that would need to interact with them. It hasn't even reached the logistics stage, it's just a thought experiment. Plus the idea is to get a jump on things. Maybe there will be no crowds of 50k people in 2020, but it easily be that quarantine does get lifted somewhere shortly after the end of 'spring training' and limits them less.

kcmets Apr 08 2020 08:02 AM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

As sad as it sounds, my vote and wager is no baseball season in 2020.

Benjamin Grimm Apr 08 2020 08:25 AM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

My hunch is that they'll think of something. It will be the weirdest baseball season ever, but I think we'll see something. I think that MLB should buy out a resort (or many resorts) and house the players and their families. (The single players will be missing out on some extracurricular fun, but they should be missing out on that anyway right now.) I'm not sure how many resorts there are in Arizona, but I bet there are more than a few centered around golf.

batmagadanleadoff Apr 08 2020 03:53 PM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

Under the proposed plan, players would sit, not in the dugouts, but in the stands, sufficiently apart from each other to comply with social distancing. Also: Phillies pitcher Zack Wheeler and his wife, Dominique, are expecting their first child in July. Wheeler said he could not endorse a plan that would keep him apart from them during the summer. “I couldn't even imagine missing the birth and just not being around and going ‘hey, I'll see you in December' or whenever it is,” Wheeler said. “That's not going to work.”

Benjamin Grimm Apr 08 2020 05:18 PM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

Yeah, they have to find a way to accommodate families.

Benjamin Grimm Apr 10 2020 09:15 AM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

Here's another new idea: MLB considering radical realignment for 2020 season: Grapefruit and Cactus leagues The Grapefruit League and the Cactus League would be "official" leagues this season. The divisions would be as follows: GRAPEFRUIT LEAGUE NORTH: New York Yankees, Philadelphia Phillies, Toronto Blue Jays, Detroit Tigers, Pittsburgh Pirates. SOUTH: Boston Red Sox, Minnesota Twins, Atlanta Braves, Tampa Bay Rays, Baltimore Orioles. EAST: Washington Nationals, Houston Astros, New York Mets, St. Louis Cardinals, Miami Marlins. CACTUS LEAGUE NORTHEAST: Chicago Cubs, San Francisco Giants, Arizona Diamondbacks, Colorado Rockies, Oakland Athletics. WEST: Los Angeles Dodgers, Chicago White Sox, Cincinnati Reds, Cleveland Indians, Los Angeles Angels. NORTHWEST: Milwaukee Brewers, San Diego Padres, Seattle Mariners, Texas Rangers, Kansas City Royals. The advantage here is that all teams would have their own home parks, at their familiar spring training facilities. There wouldn't be the congestion of trying to schedule 15 or more games per day on the few Arizona fields. Teams wouldn't be playing home games three time zones away from their home fans. (Okay, maybe some would, like the Reds and the Indians. Too bad for them.) The World Series would be Cactus League vs. Grapefruit League instead of American League vs. National League. The DH would be applicable in all games.

metsmarathon Apr 10 2020 09:25 AM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

i rather like the sound of that, actually.

Benjamin Grimm Apr 10 2020 09:27 AM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

I do too. The all-DH sucks, and it would probably be a gateway to it happening permanently, but that seems to be inevitable anyway. I assume that the spring training facilities would have the capacity to house the players' families too, which is another bonus.

41Forever Apr 10 2020 09:41 AM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

I like it a lot better than playing all the games in Arizona.

Willets Point Apr 10 2020 10:06 AM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

I like this plan too. I assume there will be "bye" days since there's an odd number of teams in each league. I was already thinking that it would make more sense with one league in Florida and one league in Arizona (whether it's American and National or Grapefruit and Cactus). I think trying to play a full season or close to a full season is overly ambitious. Playing so many games with lots of doubleheaders will put a lot of strain on everyone involved and no room for postponements (for weather or for pandemic emergencies). I think if each league basically plays a round-robin with a team facing each other team 6 times (a 3 game "home" series and a 3 game "away" series), you could get an 84-game season that would fit in from mid-June to the end of September with flexibility for postponed games. Then play the postseason in October as usual.

Benjamin Grimm Apr 10 2020 10:36 AM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

They could get more games in by playing the regular season through November and the post-season in December. (Someone somewhere floated that idea.) One of many problems with that is that if the season ends in late December, the teams that go deep into the playoffs would only have a little over a month off before it's time to report to spring training again. But maybe regular season through October and postseason in November.

Willets Point Apr 10 2020 12:19 PM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

Yeah, I just don't think extending the regular season past September is a good idea (for many reasons - health of players, staff & families, short offseason, the likelihood of a "second wave" of COVID-19 in the autumn, et al). If there's going to be baseball this season I'm of the opinion that we're going to have to accept a significantly shortened season.

G-Fafif Apr 10 2020 01:41 PM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

Extended Spring Training takes on a new meaning.

Frayed Knot Apr 10 2020 02:15 PM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

That 15 teams per 'league' thing would be a significant obstacle to overcome, particularly so because you'd have an idle team every day exactly when you're trying to make up for lost time. The only way around it would be goofy ideas like split DH's where the home team plays one team in the day portion and a different team in the nightcap*. And you'd need to have one of those several times per week at at least one of the parks which turns traveling and scheduling into a nightmare. * A sadly underused and almost archaic term in today's era

Benjamin Grimm Apr 10 2020 02:23 PM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

Well, there wouldn't be much traveling, since each division will cover a relatively small geographic area. But yeah, you would have to have a series of split doubleheaders. There's a disadvantage to the team that's playing two games that day when their opponents are only playing one, but you'd have to make it so that happens to each team an equal number of times.

Edgy MD Apr 10 2020 03:35 PM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

Ways to solve the 15-per league problem. [list] [*]Sure. Byes. Whatever. We'll all need rest, and a team getting a few bye days can get medical workups. [*]Still have interleague play, under the notion that we've advanced to the point where one team every three days flying with their self-contained group on a private jet through private airports is a manageable risk. [*]Return to 16 teams in one league and 14 in the other, possibly by setting up a central team (Cleveland? Kansas City?) with some temporary digs in Florida. [*]Expand by two teams. Maybe the teams debut in their home cities (Norfolk? Montreal? Nashville? San Antonio? Portland?) next year or maybe the disappear after one abbreviated season), but Rob Manfred wants to expand to 32 anyhow. Imagine the fun if two homeless teams are actually playing in the big leagues and America is having a reality show where multiple cities are trying to make them their own. [/list]

Willets Point Apr 11 2020 03:11 PM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

I have no problem with the teams taking a 3-day bye in rotation over the course of the season. If a central team is moved to even up the leagues it should be Milwaukee or Houston.

Edgy MD Apr 11 2020 09:04 PM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

The Dodgers were in Florida so long that it would be kind of nifty if they returned to Vero Beach.

Benjamin Grimm Apr 12 2020 06:35 AM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

If I were to move one team it would be the Reds or the Indians so that they could play in their home time zone

nymr83 Apr 12 2020 08:58 AM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

I agree Dodgers to Vero Beach would be the most "fun" move, but Indians or Reds make more sense as far as playing games when your fans can more easily watch. Universal DH would be a hard pill to swallow because you know it would soon become permanent.

Willets Point Apr 15 2020 02:46 PM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

The current speculation is that there will be no concerts or sporting events until Fall 2021. I'm thinking the chances of seeing baseball this year are approaching nil.

Benjamin Grimm Apr 15 2020 02:54 PM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

Yet Dr. Fauci says that sports can start sooner rather than later, but without an audience.

Chad ochoseis Apr 15 2020 03:32 PM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

Since the games wouldn't be in front of fans, time zones wouldn't have to be an issue. The Indians and Reds could just play their "home" games at 4:00 AZ time. The one concern there is that 4PM in the summer in Arizona is seriously hot. But if they decide to play in Arizona during the summer, heat is going to be an issue no matter what time they play. Is Chase Field an option for afternoon games?

Edgy MD Apr 15 2020 05:37 PM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

Yeah, probably. They could probably get three games in per day there.

LWFS Apr 15 2020 08:55 PM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

At this difficult time, it's important to remember to make sure that nobody gets an extra year of service time who absolutely, positively hasn't earned it. [BLOCKQUOTE]Gov. Cuomo said on news tonight he spoke with Jeff Wilpon. Cuomo advocated MLB season take place with no one in stands because it would be good for country to watch. Cuomo said response was that it would require a reduction in player salaries to offset lack of attendance.[/BLOCKQUOTE] While I'm certain other owners are going to raise similar concerns... it's comforting to know that some people-- even in the face of previously-unimaginable crisis-- remain so fucking on-brand. (From his brother's show on CNN. About right, judging from the clip I heard.)

ashie62 Apr 20 2020 04:09 PM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

Where sports meets fantasy

Frayed Knot Apr 20 2020 05:16 PM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

While I'm certain other owners are going to raise similar concerns... The other owners are not just going to have the same concerns, they are all going to do the same thing. The question remains, what that 'thing' is. When the owners & players agreed to stop ST and put the brakes on the not-yet started season (iow, the agreement which triggered the beginning of this thread) that agreement included a stipulation that the two sides would "discuss in good faith the economic feasibility of playing games in the absence of spectators or at appropriate substitute neutral sites". iow: more talks to follow since you couldn't even discuss specifics back in March because no one knew (or still knows) what the future looked like at that point. To the owners this means a negotiation to be had on pay structure in an altered economic landscape. Not surprisingly Scott Boras sees it differently. He thinks any talk about economics is limited to whether they play or don't play, but if they play the players expect to get paid at the same rate and that the clubs didn't bring it up the possibility of a reduced rate during the March talks because they knew it would be a non-starter for the union. MLB estimates that the clubs get about 40% of their revenue from tickets and related income (parking, concessions, etc.) all of which would obviously be lost in games are to be played in empty stadiums so a big hit to the clubs. And then there are the complications of what to do if playing in smaller and/or neutral parks where attendance will surely be lower. And how long will empty parks be needed, and supposing some cities/states approve of gatherings prior to others. So there will be a ton of moving pieces to consider and it's quite possible that the old money issue will be, in addition to Covid, the factor which sinks the season entirely.

Benjamin Grimm Apr 22 2020 01:53 PM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

Apparently now there's yet another option being considered. They may now play games in three different states: Florida, Arizona and Texas. I don't know if that means there would be three leagues or how the teams would be distributed. I suppose it might make sense for the teams play in the central time zone to be situated in Texas. But this seems like a weird alternative to the cactus league / grapefruit league suggestion we had previously seen

Benjamin Grimm Apr 28 2020 09:29 AM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

The virus isn't the only obstacle to having a baseball season. Money, of course, is the other. This article from the Boston Herald spells it out pretty well: MLB won't be back until it makes dollars and sense for owners and players I wonder if it would be possible to leave it up to individual players? Those who are willing to play for a reduced salary can play and those who are not would sit out and get their 4%, which is all they would get if the season was canceled entirely. So those who have expressed objections, like Mike Trout, Clayton Kershaw, and Zack Wheeler, can sit out and those who say "I wanna play!" can play. It would just be one more element of weirdness on a very weird season.

metsmarathon Apr 28 2020 09:58 AM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

here's a proposal. maybe scale the players salaries and owner profits proportionally to league profits. maybe make the hits bigger on the higher paid players thna on the lower end. like, maybe the league minimum player still gets half his salary, but guys at the top get 25%, and the owner's profit gets cut down to like 10%. some shit like that. the league will be healthier if the better-paid players take a salary hit, and if the owners take a profit hit, than it would be to skip a season outright. imo.

Edgy MD Apr 28 2020 10:57 AM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

Well, I'd certainly support your campaign for commissioner, but that's a lot of cat herding.

metsmarathon Apr 28 2020 12:18 PM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

in a world where team expenses and revenues are more openly available figures, it would be more readily implementable. unfortunately, i have a hard time thinking the players would agree to take less money when there's no guarantee that the owners are taking the same financial hit. and i really don't trust that the teams would be terribly open to both teh amount of money they have coming in, and how much they really need to have going out.

Frayed Knot Apr 28 2020 12:46 PM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

I can't see the union allowing the players to take different cuts in salary -- and since the union IS the players it would have to be the players themselves agreeing to different cuts. You have to figure that they'll be in their typical 'all for one/one for all' mode. I mean, the NFL DID pull off a similar plan: the players' increase in salary for agreeing to a 17-game schedule was skewed towards the lower-paid players while the upper tier essentially took a pay Cut on a per game basis (a 6.25% increase in the length of the season vs a less than that bump in pay). This was passed as it part of the new CBA which the union passed at a 51.5%/48.5% ratio in a league where the vast majority of players are at or close to minimum wage. The stars came out against it but they're at a huge numerical disadvantage. But that union has never been even a fraction as together as the MLBPA so the NFL was able, as usual, to get its way.

metsmarathon Apr 28 2020 01:11 PM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

great. so i also need to be the head of the mlbpa. another hat to wear!

Benjamin Grimm Apr 28 2020 02:08 PM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

Dayn Perry (whoever he is) is optimistic: MLB could start 2020 season with Opening Day by Fourth of July, report says The "report" that he sites is from Ken Rosenthal in The Atlantic, and here's the part of Rosenthal's report that Perry quotes: Ken Rosenthal wrote: "The most realistic time range for Opening Day — somewhere between mid-June and July 4, in the view of most officials — would allow for an 80- to 100-game regular season, with the schedule running through October. An expanded postseason at neutral sites might follow, with the World Series ending in late November or early December."

G-Fafif Apr 28 2020 02:53 PM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

Latest plan/scheme: three ten-team divisions, empty home parks, start by July 2, 100-110 games, lollipops and rainbows. https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/mlb/columnist/bob-nightengale/2020/04/28/mlb-optimistic-about-starting-season-late-june/3039275001/

Benjamin Grimm Apr 28 2020 03:33 PM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

I'm willing to accept a great deal of nuttiness in the 2020 season as long as there actually is a 2020 season. 40-man rosters. 7-inning games. Three ten-team leagues. Expanded playoffs. A December World Series. Tie games. Even the DH, if it's absolutely necessary. The only ideas I've seen that I really object to are starting an inning with designated base runners and, even worse, a Home Run Derby tie breaker.

Willets Point Apr 28 2020 07:45 PM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

I've been pushing for three regionally-aligned 10-team leagues for decades so I'm game to see how it works. For this year, have the teams play each other 12 times each (6 at home/6 away) and you have a 108-game season ending at the start of October. I don't see why extended playoffs are necessary. Just have the top 3 teams from each division plus the 4th place team with the best record qualify for postseason and you have 10 teams as always. Seed the 1st and 2nd place teams from 1 to 6 by regular season record. The 3rd and 4th place teams play the Wild Card playoffs and then winners are seeded 7 and 8. Then you have a best-of-5 quarterfinal, best-of-7 semifinal, and best-of-7 World Series. The playoffs/World Series can still be complete by early November.

Edgy MD Apr 28 2020 10:35 PM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

Still, the integrity of the National And American Leagues as distinct entities, as diminished as it has been, has stood for most of baseball history, and I'd hate to dismiss it as arbitrary, even if it is, you know, kind of arbitrary.

MFS62 Apr 29 2020 06:59 AM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

And some things will unfortunately stay the same: https://www.sportscasting.com/maligned-umpire-angel-hernandez-might-have-blown-another-call-by-blaming-joe-torre/ Later

Ceetar Apr 29 2020 07:46 AM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

Edgy MD wrote: Still, the integrity of the National And American Leagues as distinct entities, as diminished as it has been, has stood for most of baseball history, and I'd hate to dismiss it as arbitrary, even if it is, you know, kind of arbitrary. Personally i'd like to completely abolish it. it's possible we've seen the last pitcher AB.

Frayed Knot Apr 29 2020 08:35 AM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

=Ceetar post_id=36120 time=1588167978 user_id=102]it's possible we've seen the last pitcher AB.

If so, the game will be poorer for it.

ashie62 Apr 30 2020 03:15 PM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

If they play a 3 division league of 2020 Baseball it very well may be with 3 arbitrary divisions and sequestered ballplayers. I don't know at what point you say this is all acceptable to get a season in. The economic pressure is intense for sure. The idea of players living in hotels and being regularly tested for Covid bothers me. I think of all those people that could be, and should be tested who cannot and the MLB plan then feels hollow It is reasonable to speculate that some changes made to acomodate a 2020 season will stick in 2021 and beyond I've always had mixed feelings about the DH. I can remember Ron Blomberg starting it and as a kid thought the idea of an extra "hitter" was cool. As an adult I get very bored with pitchers taking many many more weak at bats than good. I don't particularly care about the strategy that goes with a non DH game, but thats just me I do like one league with, and one without the DH. Kinda like Vanilla or chocolate ice cream. Pick your flavor.

TransMonk May 01 2020 08:43 AM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

Gary Cohen's call: 'Baseball and play-by-play will be back when it's back' I am perfectly willing to do whatever it is and I do not hold myself out as an expert on which would be the best plan,” Cohen said. “But what I do know is that, in this country right now, we are not even scratching the surface of the testing that would be needed to be able to make any plan a viable one. Until enough testing is in place to ensure the safety of everybody involved in whatever endeavor they try to establish, then it's really a moot point.

Benjamin Grimm May 07 2020 09:14 AM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

MLB return-to-play proposal expected within week, sources say This is a wrinkle that I've been wondering about too: Multiple players have reached out to the union asking what would happen if they opted not to play in 2020 out of fear for their health or a desire to remain with their families during the pandemic, sources told ESPN. I think it makes sense to allow individual players to opt out, if they're willing to forego their salaries, except for the 4% that they'd have gotten if the season was canceled entirely. Zack Wheeler doesn't want to play? Then the Phillies do without him, save on his salary, and Wheeler gets to stay home. And if he later changes his mind, he gets a pro-rated portion of his salary. It seems like the fair thing to do.

Frayed Knot May 07 2020 09:27 AM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

I suspect those who opt out might be willing to forego the salary but they/their union would still want the service time ... and that's where things might get sticky. There are going to be a lot a questions like those that'll need to be dealt with over and above just the logistics of the the schedule/travel/season itself. Meanwhile, the German Bundesliga (their top level soccer league) is returning to action next week. Looks like the last game played there was March 11th.

Ceetar May 07 2020 10:10 AM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

my German coworker/boss says they announced they're opening the biergartens a week earlier than everything else.

Edgy MD May 07 2020 01:20 PM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

What really stings at different levels, in different cases, for teams and players and owners is all the guys who aren't playing out the last year of their contracts. Personally, I think it's fine if guys who are pre-free-agency get some or all of a season of service time added to their ledgers, but I'd be happy to see every player who has reached the free-agency portion of his career get a one-year extension at AAV rates.

Benjamin Grimm May 11 2020 11:41 AM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

Amid coronavirus pandemic, MLB owners will vote on historic revenue-sharing plan Bob Nightengale USA TODAY Major League Baseball owners, with an abundance of optimism that baseball will be played this year, are scheduled to vote on a plan Monday that will require teams to share at least 48% of their revenue with the Major League Baseball Players Association this season, two people with direct knowledge of the proposal told USA TODAY Sports. The people, who spoke only on the condition of anonymity because they were unauthorized to discuss details, said the historic revenue-sharing plan is integral to diminish revenue losses with games potentially being played without fans beginning in July. MLB officials say that teams are expected to lose about 40% of their gross revenue from ticket sales, concessions and parking. This would be the first time in history that MLB clubs would be willing to share their revenue with players, although it's common in other sports. In the NFL, players get 48% of revenue, and NBA players receive between 49% and 51% based on expected income. The proposal was initially shared with owners Thursday, revised Friday with owners on their executive committee and will be submitted for a vote on their noon ET conference call Monday, according to the two people. The proposal is expected to be submitted to the union Monday evening. The union has balked at the idea that players should take a further pay cut since they already will lose about half of their annual salary with the season being reduced to 82 regular-season games. They agreed to be paid on a pro-rated basis in their previous agreement on March 26, which granted players a full year of service time if no season is played. MLB is trying its best to get back on the field and start the 2020 season. But there's still plenty to be decided. The owners' proposal also outlines details on scheduling, which will include the postponement of the All-Star Game, which was scheduled for July 14 at Dodger Stadium, the two people told USA TODAY Sports. Training camps, as previously reported by USA TODAY Sports, will begin in June with an opening day set July 1-4. Teams will have the option of hosting spring training 2.0 at their home facilities or at their spring-training complexes in Arizona and Florida, with the hope that all teams can stage games at their own home ballparks during the season. According to the two people, the traditional two-league- six-division structure will remain, but teams will only play opponents in their division and the corresponding geographical division from the other league. So a team such as the New York Yankees would play only against their AL East opponents and the NL East, while a team like the Los Angeles Dodgers, who weren't scheduled to play the Houston Astros, now would play them at least six times. They will also vote on whether to implement a universal DH, which likely will be necessary considering that interleague play will constitute about 40% of games. The active rosters are expected to be inflated from 26 players to 30, with a 20-man taxi squad consisting mostly of an organization's top minor-league players being available all season. If teams are unable to play in their home ballparks, at least at the outset of the season, they could choose to share a major-league facility with another team or play at their own spring-training complex. Yet, the preference by all owners is that the games, even with no fans, are staged at their own ballparks. MLB initially considered extending the season through Thanksgiving weekend, playing regular-season games through most of October, but with a fear of a second wave of COVID-19 in the fall, believe it would be safer finish the season no later than the first week of November. MLB cautions that their plan remains fluid with the unpredictability of the COVID-19 pandemic, requiring the approval of health experts and governmental officials. So the Mets regular season would be entirely against the Braves, Nationals, Phillies, Marlins, Yankees, Red Sox, Blue Jays, Rays, and Orioles. And if they were to be one of the seven NL teams (three division champs and four wild cards?) to advance to the post-season, their postseason would be against other NL teams, including those in the Central and West, until the World Series.

MFS62 May 11 2020 12:59 PM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

When it was announced that the NL would be using the DH, one of my friends emailed me to see if I was ok, that's how much he knew I hated that rule. Later

ashie62 May 11 2020 02:01 PM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

Uh, the 50/50 revenue ain't gonna fly These are draconian measures to play ball I hope two weeks in and some player doesn't test positive. That would be a "Thar she blows." This may be a season where DFS and fantasy outshine the real sport Everything proposed smells of fakeyitis Now play ball dammit!

nymr83 May 11 2020 02:10 PM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

Edgy MD wrote: What really stings at different levels, in different cases, for teams and players and owners is all the guys who aren't playing out the last year of their contracts. Personally, I think it's fine if guys who are pre-free-agency get some or all of a season of service time added to their ledgers, but I'd be happy to see every player who has reached the free-agency portion of his career get a one-year extension at AAV rates. I think all the players should get a choice between getting a year of service time and whatever salary they make this year after the 'reductions' are agreed upon (all the pre-free agency guys will want this) OR having their contract get delayed by a year - so if you are 37 and in the last year of a 10/mil year deal you may say "no thanks, i'll take my 10 mil next year please"

ashie62 May 11 2020 02:17 PM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

How about the union accepts 50/50 revenue in return for the full year service time

Benjamin Grimm May 11 2020 04:40 PM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

Latest news is that the thirty owners have approved the plan outlined above. Tomorrow begins the effort to get the players to accept the proposal. It includes owners splitting revenues 50-50 with the players.

MFS62 May 11 2020 05:04 PM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

Benjamin Grimm wrote: Latest news is that the thirty owners have approved the plan outlined above. Tomorrow begins the effort to get the players to accept the proposal. It includes owners splitting revenues 50-50 with the players. The cynical (or is is the logical?) person in me says the players would get screwed. The owners will hide the revenue (like the Wilpons keep SNY revenue off the Mets books) and plead poverty. TV revenues are already in the bank. A fairer way would be to pay them a percentage of their salaries pro-rated on the number of games the final schedule represents. Later

Frayed Knot May 11 2020 05:51 PM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

=MFS62 post_id=36726 time=1589238282 user_id=60]TV revenues are already in the bank.

Not all of them. Networks are certainly going to want a rebate for missing out on half the games and I suspect clauses for doing so are pre-built into sport/TV contracts.

As for local money, 85-90 games of the reg season (x 30 teams) will not have a single commercial run on them because those games never existed.

A fairer way would be to pay them a percentage of their salaries pro-rated on the number of games the final schedule represents.

They're already doing that. The owners point is that in addition to missing out on the income from half the games (TV + gate + parking, concessions, etc) they'll continue to lose

revenue streams going forward because a significant portion (maybe all?) of games to be played will do so without fans (and their parking/concessions etc.).

In the initial agreement, the one the owners & players agreed to when they suspended the season back in ST, both sides agreed to the pro-rated salary part but there was also separate

language which indicated that further discussion on reduced salary if reduced revenue still might need to happen depending on conditions of any restart. The players say that the owners

missed their chance to do that back in March and that they'll veto anything further reduction. The owners claim that part of the issue was specifically NOT settled and say they won't open

the parks without further relief.

MFS62 May 11 2020 06:01 PM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

Frayed Knot wrote: In the initial agreement, the one the owners & players agreed to when they suspended the season back in ST, both sides agreed to the pro-rated salary part but there was also separate language which indicated that further discussion on reduced salary if reduced revenue still might need to happen depending on conditions of any restart. Granted, but I still feel the owners will cook the books to drive that revenue figure as low as believable, but not accurate. Later

Edgy MD May 11 2020 06:48 PM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

The owners have already gotten in plenty of trouble for that before. I'm sure that the union wouldn't agree to a percentage without insisting on an independent auditor.

Frayed Knot May 11 2020 07:08 PM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

Here's the line from that March 26th agreement that is being subject to differing interpretations: “the Office of the Commissioner and Players Association will discuss in good faith the economic feasibility of playing games in the absence of spectators” Union head Tony Clark has said there are no needs for a new pay negotiation because the deal called for players to be paid their 2020 salary prorated for games played. Not surprisingly, several agents have said the same. MLB interprets this sentence to mean a new arrangement would have to be discussed since revenue derived from attendance is said to represent some 40% of their total.

Ceetar May 11 2020 08:33 PM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

assuming we're not just ignoring testing and tracing altogether, which i'm not convinced can happen, it doesn't seem like they _have_ to play empty stadiums. Test people. You could probably socially distance 2000 people, maybe more if you factor in families that don't have to be distanced, fairly easily in the ground level of most stadiums. keep all the concessions and such closed, have a handful of mask-laden guards for security. Only allow day-of tickets purchased that require proof of a negative test. (or perhaps a positive antibody test, depending on if we have info on that being meaningful) No one would come in contact with players. Chance of anyone being infected is low, and if you mandate masks worn to come and go from your seat things would be pretty safe. It wouldn't be the same, but there'd be enough crowd noise from that, noises in the right spots even if not as loud, to make things feel a little more normal. I think it'd help. Ultimately baseball doesn't really care about making it feel normal for the players, and the mesley income from that, perhaps merely $40k or something is junk change to them anyway. Unless they made this a super-premium experience I guess, and they probably could, and milked it for like $100 a ticket. You could probably get a few hundred thousand that way.

Edgy MD May 11 2020 08:58 PM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

You're assuming that, given a chance fuck things up, we'd somehow not. I'm no pessimist, at least I thought I wasn't, but it seems dysfunction is baked into the cake these days.

metsmarathon May 11 2020 09:01 PM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

now imagine a long, high fly ball being hit deep into the stands, right smack down between two sets of social-distancers...

Ceetar May 11 2020 09:24 PM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

=metsmarathon post_id=36745 time=1589252508 user_id=83] now imagine a long, high fly ball being hit deep into the stands, right smack down between two sets of social-distancers...

bring your gloves to the park!



what, two people who almost definitely don't have the virus briefly come in close contact? big deal. there is almost no chance that's enough to spread the virus they almost definitely don't have.

Ceetar May 11 2020 09:27 PM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

Edgy MD wrote: You're assuming that, given a chance fuck things up, we'd somehow not. I'm no pessimist, at least I thought I wasn't, but it seems dysfunction is baked into the cake these days. I get more and more pessimistic as this all progresses. But that's why I'd tie tickets to testing, hopefully that way when it all gets fucked up it just means no one gets in or they fail to implement it properly or whatever. But it seems like they're not even really going to try that. There seems to be no real plan for the way forward at all, by anyone, even outside of baseball.

batmagadanleadoff May 11 2020 10:28 PM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

=Ceetar post_id=36742 time=1589250797 user_id=102] assuming we're not just ignoring testing and tracing altogether, which i'm not convinced can happen, it doesn't seem like they _have_ to play empty stadiums. Test people. You could probably socially distance 2000 people, maybe more if you factor in families that don't have to be distanced, fairly easily in the ground level of most stadiums. keep all the concessions and such closed, have a handful of mask-laden guards for security. Only allow day-of tickets purchased that require proof of a negative test. (or perhaps a positive antibody test, depending on if we have info on that being meaningful) No one would come in contact with players. Chance of anyone being infected is low, and if you mandate masks worn to come and go from your seat things would be pretty safe. It wouldn't be the same, but there'd be enough crowd noise from that, noises in the right spots even if not as loud, to make things feel a little more normal. I think it'd help. Ultimately baseball doesn't really care about making it feel normal for the players, and the mesley income from that, perhaps merely $40k or something is junk change to them anyway. Unless they made this a super-premium experience I guess, and they probably could, and milked it for like $100 a ticket. You could probably get a few hundred thousand that way.

This is way too much to expect from a cruel and incompetent banana republic. Like Trump's America. Plus, regular people can't get tested unless they're on death's door but suddenly, if you buy a ticket to a fucking baseball game .....?

Ceetar May 12 2020 07:50 AM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

=batmagadanleadoff post_id=36749 time=1589257716 user_id=68] This is way too much to expect from a cruel and incompetent banana republic. Like Trump's America. Plus, regular people can't get tested unless they're on death's door but suddenly, if you buy a ticket to a fucking baseball game .....?

well yeah, I know it's pie in the sky stuff, but I find this musing more fun than debating revenue share percentages.



regular people can get tested, at least in some places? there's a half dozen I could go to right now. But yes, rich people run this country and MLB is rich people. if they used their financial might (which might make them give up the pretense of poverty) to increasing testing and tracing? why not.



This is what needs to happen though, in general. If we had leaders maybe we'd be there now. small gatherings permitted via testing, when you can space them out. half/quarter capacity restaurants (which I know sucks for them, but ideally you wouldn't just throw them to the wolves, you'd still provide assistance in these trying times) same at baseball games, and movie theaters, and what not.



If this really is going to need to be stretched out for months and months, training people to run at quarter capacity would alleviate a lot of the stir craziness. if you could still go to a bar or restaurant once in a while, but maybe always need a reservation and a recent test result? make it so everyone is going out, sometimes, a little, and getting used to wearing masks, practicing social distancing, aware of aisle directions in super markets, make it a part of daily life.



my point is Citi Field is a big open air place where you could fit thousands of people with very little contact between them and much risk than say the players and clubhouse workers and hotel employees are taking on. The major hurdle is probably just that those gatherings are banned, but MLB could very easily get an exemption with the right testing/ticket policy in place, cause guys like Cumeo would roll over for them.

MFS62 May 12 2020 08:29 AM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

Fangraphs' take. https://blogs.fangraphs.com/after-years-of-profits-mlb-owners-ask-players-to-subsidize-potential-losses/ Basically what I said, the owners are trying to screw the players. Later

Frayed Knot May 12 2020 01:06 PM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

I'm have a hard time buying the idea that, even if the owners lose half the season and then lose out on something like 40% of revenue from the half they do play, every team is still going to be awash in cash. I think sometimes some writers start with the premise that the teams make so much money (although if the sport is the mega-profit machine some claim there'd be no reason for anyone to ever get out of the business) that they go about concocting scenarios to prove their predetermined conclusion that there's no way they ever could lose money ... even in the short term. Look, I've generally been on the side of the players in most of these labor wars during my lifetime, but I think the union needs to carefully consider how they handle this particularly because it seems to me that their biggest fear is that the ghost of Marvin Miller is going to smite them all in their tracks if they agree to even a temporary fix that smells like a salary cap. And, yes, limiting overall pay to a fixed portion of revenue IS a form of cap no matter how much the NFL (or the folks who shill for it) sell it as if it's an act of Christian Charity when they raise the roof by 2% at the same time the players agree to a season that will be 6.25% longer. But this would be just for one season and only for the most unusual season in the sport's history. And they need to decide whether they REALLY want to be standing on a principle which no one cares about (keeping their cap-free streak intact) during a time of 'Hooverville' unemployment figures and deaths that will likely be into six figures before they get around to starting this thing. This doesn't mean they have to bite at the first bait the owners dangle at them, but the voices we've heard from so far have all said that the issue of pay has been pre-decided and that the idea of even discussing anything beyond the part about prorating salaries based on the length of the season is a complete non-starter to which they have no intention of hearing. This even though the March 26th agreement clearly (in my mind anyway) had a clause indicating that the two sides would at least talk "in good faith" about what to do in the event of a season with reduced revenues. They obviously couldn't nail down any terms like that in late March because no one had any idea what the conditions would be like at that point. So the union might go all out to try and win their battle here but that win could come at the expense of: a) their entire 2020 salaries (I think they get 4% in the event of a canceled season) if the owners decide that they'd lose less money by ditching the entire season b) a lot of bad PR as a season gets scuttled because your guys can't take a partial pay cut off your multi-millions while millions of others have lost their jobs completely Both sides have a lot to lose here. It would be nice if they handled it like adults.

Edgy MD May 12 2020 01:39 PM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

Curious if there'll be a presidential first pitch. With nobody there to boo him, he can pretend that everybody loved it and tuned in just to see him. Heck, he can even pre-record it and edit it to look like he zipped it in straight for a strike.

Benjamin Grimm May 12 2020 02:01 PM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

If I was the catcher who was designated to receive a first pitch from this president, I'd step aside as the threw it and just let the ball roll to a stop, untouched. And I'd walk away without even looking at it.

Edgy MD May 12 2020 02:26 PM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

I demand that Ben Grimm be signed by the Mets as their opening day catcher.

MFS62 May 12 2020 03:04 PM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

Benjamin Grimm wrote: If I was the catcher who was designated to receive a first pitch from this president, I'd step aside as the threw it and just let the ball roll to a stop, untouched. And I'd walk away without even looking at it. I'd put on a medical mask and gloves and then pick it up. And make sure the cameras were watching. And then I'd place it in a medical disposal bag and drop it in the garbage. Later

metsmarathon May 12 2020 03:39 PM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

i'd fall over laughing after he ineptly, gracelessly lobbed it fifty feet, many of them in the wrong direction. the giggling would not end for days. weeks, even.

ashie62 May 12 2020 03:48 PM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

I find it hard to imagine more than a few thousand fannies in the seats. So, the economic viability of the baseball business is at stake

MFS62 May 12 2020 04:02 PM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

i'd fall over laughing after he ineptly, gracelessly lobbed it fifty feet, many of them in the wrong direction. the giggling would not end for days. weeks, even. That's probably one of the main reasons why he has never thrown out the "first pitch". Later

Edgy MD May 12 2020 05:03 PM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

Oh, he has, just never as president. [YOUTUBE]645cNMYN2mU[/YOUTUBE]

nymr83 May 12 2020 07:58 PM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

=ashie62 post_id=36776 time=1589320090 user_id=90] I find it hard to imagine more than a few thousand fannies in the seats. So, the economic viability of the baseball business is at stake

Half the revenue is TV money. They'll be fine as long as they can play.

nymr83 May 12 2020 08:00 PM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

Edgy MD wrote: Oh, he has, just never as president. [YOUTUBE]645cNMYN2mU[/YOUTUBE] I've seen better but I've also seen much worse. That was probably in the 75th percentile for (then) 60 year olds throwing 1st pitches.

Frayed Knot May 13 2020 09:28 AM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

Mark Teixeira, now with ESPN, suggests that the players accept the proposal of of a revenue split for this season only but that's not going over too well with at least one player. Alex Wood (LAD) Tweet: “I refuse to judge someone I don't really know off of one comment but damn this statement is just so stupid" Teixeira: “This is unprecedented in the history of the Major League Baseball Players Association ... every other year, I would stand together and say, ‘The owners aren't going to do this to us and we're going to get paid our full fare. If I'm going to put myself out there, I'm going to get paid a full day's wage.' “Players need to understand that if they turn this deal down and shut the sport down, they're not making a cent" Talks on the owners proposal began on Tuesday but reportedly they haven't gotten to the revenue splitting topic as of yet.

Ceetar May 13 2020 11:06 AM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

they talked logistics though, that's the important part. I haven't seen (though I haven't really hunted for it either) if there have been any leaks into specifics. It does seem testing everyone is part of the 'plan'.

metsmarathon May 13 2020 11:07 AM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

how much money could the owners possibly lose this year, if they ended up paying the players for 50% of their salaries? maybe they could apply for some of those small business aid grants...

Frayed Knot May 13 2020 11:39 AM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

=metsmarathon post_id=36800 time=1589389629 user_id=83] how much money could the owners possibly lose this year, if they ended up paying the players for 50% of their salaries?

Their point is that they're losing half their revenue by missing half the season and then an estimated 40% off of the half they do play due to empty stadiums.

Obviously paying the players about half what they're owed makes up for some of that but not all.

Now it's possible that the empty parks will become at least partially filled as the season goes on so that's where the revenue split idea comes in since they'll

still be working uncharted waters here.

Edgy MD May 13 2020 11:50 AM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

Players should totally not be having this conversation through the press.

Benjamin Grimm May 13 2020 12:01 PM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

One interesting tidbit that I read somewhere is that the owners prefer playing in their home ballparks because of the advertising revenue. They'll still get money, apparently, from Dunkin Donuts and Budweiser when the ads appear on television. I wonder if those rates will be reduced, and by how much, or if they're primarily intended for the home viewers anyway.

metsmarathon May 13 2020 12:03 PM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

maybe they could recoup some of the attendance cash by selling advertisements on tarps that could cover the empty seats.

Ceetar May 13 2020 12:09 PM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

we really don't know for sure what the economic hit is, as we're not privy to the private negotiations the owners have with various places, and we don't know if certain deals with TV/etc will be halved for a half season or if they play they get the full kitty, etc. I think the empty stadiums is a concession to the idea that they've be playing in locked down states. by not opening up, they're just filming an internal company meeting or whatever, not opening up a public building?

MFS62 May 13 2020 12:12 PM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

they talked logistics though, that's the important part. I haven't seen (though I haven't really hunted for it either) if there have been any leaks into specifics. It does seem testing everyone is part of the 'plan'. There IS a safety plan: https://www.yahoo.com/news/report-mlb-outlines-player-safety-160030365.html Later

Benjamin Grimm May 13 2020 12:24 PM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

That article mentions the All-Star Game at Dodger Stadium. They should totally write off the All-Star Game this year.

MFS62 May 13 2020 12:32 PM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

Benjamin Grimm wrote: That article mentions the All-Star Game at Dodger Stadium. They should totally write off the All-Star Game this year. And then tear that place down because it isn't being used. Later

Frayed Knot May 13 2020 02:36 PM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

ESPN, Fox, NBC, CBS and Turner Sports, according to sources, have experimented with the idea of using virtual reality to enhance the at-home viewing experience, by superimposing realistic-looking fans onto screens. The idea is in its infancy and there is a mixture of opinions toward it, but it is something the networks are playing with as fan-less games appear to be the immediate reality. https://nypost.com/2020/05/13/espn-fox-bracing-for-unprecedented-sports-broadcasts/

Benjamin Grimm May 13 2020 02:41 PM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

I was wondering if they'd have fake ballpark noises for the players' benefit. Will there be a public address announcer so that we know when the pinch hitter is officially in the game? Probably not necessary. I imagine they'll play a recorded national anthem. I have to say, I REALLY hope this works out. I'm wanting to watch baseball now more than I have in years.

MFS62 May 13 2020 02:51 PM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

The first game back could get as emotional as the post-9/11 Piazza game, for some fans. Later

Frayed Knot May 13 2020 02:58 PM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

Benjamin Grimm wrote: Will there be a public address announcer so that we know when the pinch hitter is officially in the game? Yes, but he'll only have to whisper since he doesn't have to be head over crowd noise.

ashie62 May 13 2020 04:44 PM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

BOC

ashie62 May 14 2020 11:27 AM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

According to Jared Diamond of the Wall Street Journal, the league is planning to implement a safety protocol in which all baseball personnel would be tested for coronavirus multiple times a week, with results available within about 24 hours. Diamond outlined more specifics of the plan, including that the league's proposal does not require quarantining players or automatically suspending play if a player tests positive. MLB believes that it will be able to gain access to the tens of thousands of testing kits required for this plan without taking tests away from the frontline workers or hospitals, Diamond adds. This plan's safety measures are not as intensive as some of the other previously ideas the league had considered, like quarantining all required employees and players. Calling bullshit on this until all Americans have equal access to testing

Frayed Knot May 14 2020 01:37 PM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

Edgy MD wrote: Players should totally not be having this conversation through the press. That's precisely what I mean by potentially losing the pr war even if they manage to 'win' by holding out for all the pro-rated money AND have the owners blink about canceling the season. I mean the Alex Wood stuff (above) wasn't too bad, but now for exhibit A in how NOT to handle things, I give you Blake Snell, Tampa Bay Rays: "I gotta get my money. I'm not playing unless I get mine, okay? And that's just the way it is for me. Like, I'm sorry you guys think differently, but the risk is way the hell higher and the amount of money I'm making is way lower, why would I think about doing that? Like you know, I'm just, I'm sorry. ... “Like, I ain't making s–t. [his contract for 2020 is $7 mil] And on top of that — so, all that money's gone, and now I play risking my life. And if I get the ‘rona — on top of that, if I get the ‘rona — guess what happens with that? Oh yeah, that stays, that's in my body forever. That damage is not gonna be like — the damage that was done to my body? That's gonna be there forever.” https://nypost.com/2020/05/14/blake-snell-slams-mlb-coronavirus-plan-risking-my-life/

batmagadanleadoff May 14 2020 01:53 PM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

Jesus Christ, what an asshole that Snell is. Guys like that should be forced to work in a supermarket for minimum wage in this pandemic next to others like him, who won't get tested unless they can't breathe.

Benjamin Grimm May 14 2020 02:38 PM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

From SNY's website: May 14, 1:57 PM: MLB has partnered with a Utah lab in order to provide coronavirus testing to players and support staff, in addition to "thousands more in the general public," reports Tom Verducci of Sports Illustrated, who says the testing plan was presented by the league to the Players Association on Tuesday. The lab, The Sports Medicine Research and Testing Laboratory, will turn its current lab (which currently performs testing for performance enhancing drugs) into a coronavirus testing facility. Any return by MLB this season has been expected to include a coronavirus testing element, but there had been questions surrounding the ethics of potentially using thousands of tests on players during a time when many in the general public are still unable to get tested. It's fair to believe the above agreement would allay some of those concerns.

Edgy MD May 14 2020 03:05 PM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

To be fair, you don't name a kid "Blake Snell" and not raise him to be an asshole, if you know what I mean.

Frayed Knot May 14 2020 03:25 PM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

=batmagadanleadoff post_id=36858 time=1589486017 user_id=68] Jesus Christ, what an asshole that Snell is.

Sure, but what if he gets the 'rona?!?





I gotta admit, this is the first time I've heard it referred to as 'the rona' ... although I never get to sit at the cool kids' lunch table so I'm rarely up on the latest lingo.

batmagadanleadoff May 14 2020 03:33 PM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

Frayed Knot wrote: =batmagadanleadoff post_id=36858 time=1589486017 user_id=68] Jesus Christ, what an asshole that Snell is. Sure, but what if he gets the 'rona?!?

I hope he doesn't get the rona. I hope the supermarket cashiers and the postal employees don't get it, either

dgwphotography May 14 2020 04:56 PM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

I've come to a realization - I miss local sports, and covering them the way have been able to the last several years. I really don't miss Major League Baseball.

ashie62 May 14 2020 05:18 PM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

The Owners have a "nuclear option." Players are to be paid a full salary even if the season is lost if they reject the compromise. I also understand what paragraph 11 can do to that payment schedule and if invoked long court cases will follow With no games MLB has zero operational revenue and existing TV contracts possibly stacked with rebates. Franchise TV networks ala SNY have little content to air and charge advertising revenue So, couldn't distressed franchises file for bankruptcy and let a trustee pay out pennies on the dollar to players and other creditors? I understand the history of owners not being forthcoming about their revenue but individual franchise losses could be and likely will be in the billions I don't think this will happen, but players have to get beyond the idea the MLB is coming off a record revenue year so in turn, we the players should be made whole this go round This is an economic catastrophe that is only in its' beginnings and a pandemic that is not contained and evolving daily Advice to MLB? safety first and serious serious compromise so that we still recognize the game in 2020 or even 2021 Hoping for the best

MFS62 May 16 2020 05:54 AM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

Jesus Christ, what an asshole that Snell is. Guys like that should be forced to work in a supermarket for minimum wage in this pandemic next to others like him, who won't get tested unless they can't breathe. And we already knew this guy's a dick: https://www.yahoo.com/sports/bryce-harper-backs-blake-snells-stance-on-not-accepting-pay-cuts-somebodys-gotta-say-it-033514803.html Later

G-Fafif May 16 2020 11:03 AM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

No exchanges of lineup cards. New baseballs any time a ball is put in play and touched by multiple players. Players wearing masks except while on the field, standing six feet apart during the singing of the national anthem and “God Bless America,” sitting six feet apart in the dugout and, if necessary, even in the stands. These are just some of the proposed protocols in a 67-page document concerning health and safety that Major League Baseball delivered to the Major League Baseball Players Association on Friday night. For the proposals to be enacted, the union must agree to the procedures outlined in the document, making them subject to change. The operations manual for the abbreviated 2020 season, a copy of which was obtained by The Athletic, covers medical and testing protocols for COVID-19, spring training, facility protocols, on-field operations, league operations and transactions, travel, and player and staff education. https://theathletic.com/1818308/2020/05/16/exclusive-mlb-proposes-medical-protocols-to-players-in-67-page-document/

Marshmallowmilkshake May 16 2020 11:20 AM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

Blake Snell is, by virtue of being a Major League Baseball player, one of the very best in the world at what he does. I'm sure he thinks that entitles him to a lot of money. What he is forgetting is that he is an entertainer, and that as much as I enjoy watching him and the others perform, it's hardly essential to my life. Right now, the clerks at Walgreens, the people restocking the shelves at the grocery store and the guys removing the trash each week are more essential to me. While I know he is being honest and no doubt speaks for others, it sure does come off as insensitive to every waitress, small business owner and others who can't earn anything right now and probably need it more. I'm not saying he should play for free. But he might realize there is a greater good to some to some kind of agreement that is fair to both sides and that tone deaf statements only insult the people he relies on to pay his salary.

Frayed Knot May 16 2020 02:07 PM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

And I didn't even print Snell's comments to say that he's wrong for being concerned with the chances of players getting the illness ... excuse me: 'the Rona'. But, jeeez, he's got to find a better way of saying it than: 'I gotta get me mine first'. It's due to statements like this that, even when the players' side is more in the right, they still manage to lose the pr war during these negotiations and a sizable percentage of fans wind up taking the seemingly odd choice of backing the owners in these millionaire-v-billionaire tussles. It doesn't surprise me that any number of players are going to support at least the end game of what he's trying to say - even if most are smart enough not to quite put it in those terms. But I also think a lot of this has to do with the players, egged on by their union chiefs, wanting to keep their record intact of never agreeing to anything that even resembles a salary cap, not even for a half season under extraordinary circumstances. They've already shown that they're buying into the slippery slope theory, that agreeing to a quasi-cap here will somehow lead to permanent caps in the future, as if that can happen without their consent. It's a stupid argument when it's used politically -- 'If I agree to let you take away my rocket-launch bazookas then it's only a matter of time until you take away my single-shot hunting rifle' -- it's a stupid one here and it's another way in which they manage to lose the pr wars on these types of issues.

Fman99 May 16 2020 08:18 PM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

Blake Snell can eat a bag of stewed assholes.

LWFS May 16 2020 08:56 PM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

He's coming off like an asshole-- because, y'know, education and all-about-the-memes expression emphasis, and all... and he's kind of an asshole, to boot-- but he has a real, absolutely-legitimate point. The owners are essentially trying to renege on contracts. And contrary to capitalist bullstink, they absolutely are NOT taking "all the risk." What you're seeing here is a pandemic edition of the typical boo-the-millionaires-keeping-baseball-from-you, as-brought-to-you-by-the-billionaires shtick.

Edgy MD May 16 2020 09:19 PM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

Indeed, I think most here have acknowledged his general point is valid. They are essentially being locked out and asked to return to work under more hazardous conditions than the contract has outlined. Absolutely, this needs to go through the bargaining table. He just needs to have this conversation with his union brothers, though. As certain as I am that there are probably five or six people out there dying to see some Rays games, airing this shit out in public serves no healthy end.

LWFS May 16 2020 09:51 PM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

Well, yeah. This shit's throwing off the appropriateness-radars of some seasoned life-vets... never mind the I-get-all-the-life-experience-I-need-from-CoD-allnighters set. (By way of underlining my point, I'm not sure that MOST here have acknowledged that, btw.)

ashie62 May 18 2020 08:57 AM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

Snell spoke out about the obvious In other MLB rumors today, "Same as it ever was."

Benjamin Grimm May 19 2020 07:45 AM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

Here's a way for teams to make money from the empty seats: Tarp advertising The article mentions that advertisers would want to make sure their ads appear on screen often enough. The most effective way to do that, and it's a slippery slope, is to have an advertising scroll at the bottom of the screen. It's probably inevitable, and this may be the year that it takes a leap forward. (I think we do see ads at the bottom in the form of sponsorship of out-of-town scores, but I'm not sure of that.)

Willets Point May 19 2020 09:26 AM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

Hasn't Oakland been doing that for some time?

metsmarathon May 19 2020 09:29 AM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

=metsmarathon post_id=36806 time=1589392998 user_id=83] maybe they could recoup some of the attendance cash by selling advertisements on tarps that could cover the empty seats.

Edgy MD May 19 2020 01:12 PM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

Yeah, it'd be better to have corporate logos behind the action than in front of it.

Lefty Specialist May 19 2020 03:15 PM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

The Mets have had Chevy trucks running across the screen for a few years now.

Benjamin Grimm May 19 2020 04:01 PM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

But the new wrinkle might be a constant scroll. TRY THE NEW RASPBERRY LATTE AT DUNKIN followed by LOVE - IT'S WHAT MAKES A SUBURU A SUBURU followed by PORK THE OTHER WHITE MEAT etc etc.

ashie62 May 19 2020 04:12 PM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

https://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/mlb-mlbpa-talks-progressing-toward-deal-for-2020-season-says-very-confident-player-representative/ An encouraging statement from a player rep

Frayed Knot May 19 2020 07:52 PM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

The initial player/union reaction to the thought of a revenue split was that the March 26th agreement settled the topic of 2020 salaries at simply a pro-rated reduction based on the length of the season. iow: too late to change your stance now ... no takesy-backsies. But an email from an MLB lawyer (obtained by the NY Post) claims to have emails showing that the union asked for and got a clarification that further talks would be required to deal with the "economic feasibility" of playing games at neutral sites and/or with fan-less stadiums. Not sure where this leaves us or if the optimistic comments from player rep Austin Hedges [Ashie's link above] essentially acknowledges as much and means that this is a gap which can be overcome. https://nypost.com/2020/05/19/mlb-thinks-email-is-smoking-gun-in-salary-fight-with-players/

Benjamin Grimm May 21 2020 11:31 AM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

I've started seeing speculation in a few places that one way the owners can recoup this year's losses (perhaps in addition to giant advertising tarps and instead of additional concessions from the players) is through expansion fees. According to this guy (And let's just pretend that he knows what he's talking about. I have no idea.) adding two new teams could yield $50 million to each of the existing franchises. (Which leads me to wonder if they'd add four teams and get $100 million each. Or six teams for $150 million each. Or...) The article I linked is focused on Portland, Oregon, because of where the writer is from, but he also mentions other possibilities: Montreal, Las Vegas, Charlotte, Vancouver, Nashville, and New Orleans. I've long thought that North Carolina and Tennessee would be promising expansion options. You could put the Charlotte Knights and Montreal Dragons in the Eastern Divisions, New Orleans Pelicans and Nashville Sounds in the Central, and Vancouver Mounties and Las Vegas Stars in the West. Is six new teams too many? Yeah, but I don't really care!

ashie62 May 21 2020 11:35 AM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

The newbies would enter MLB in the spirit of "buying low". And why not

MFS62 May 21 2020 12:27 PM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

Benjamin Grimm wrote: You could put the ... Vancouver Mounties ... in the West. An homage to Jim Bouton. My guess is if MLB is going to expand, it will go full bore International, with teams in both Montreal and Mexico City as well as Vancouver. Later

Ceetar May 21 2020 12:32 PM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

Vancouver, Portland, two in Mexico City. for travel reasons. Hell, do 4 more. This would also lengthen the draft, something that's attached to some concern about the barrier to entry for all but the most talented children.

Edgy MD May 21 2020 12:35 PM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

If the union is split and some of the players are willing to come back to work and others aren't, we can play it like the wartime NFL and have a bunch of teams pair off and merge together.

Edgy MD May 21 2020 12:36 PM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

If the union is split and some of the players are willing to come back to work and others aren't, we can play it like the wartime NFL and have a bunch of teams pair off and merge together.

Ceetar May 21 2020 01:08 PM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

the way the country is going re: reopening, it seems like players might actually be safer playing.

Lefty Specialist May 21 2020 04:25 PM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

=Ceetar post_id=37153 time=1590088124 user_id=102] the way the country is going re: reopening, it seems like players might actually be safer playing.

They'll be dreading those road trips to Atlanta, though.

G-Fafif May 21 2020 05:02 PM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

Some thoughts on kickstarting this beautiful game in these challenging times.

41Forever May 21 2020 05:12 PM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

Some thoughts on kickstarting this beautiful game in these challenging times. Last time we saw the Mets for real, in 2019, they were one big hug. Dom Smith had homered in the eleventh inning, the Mets had beaten the Braves, ebullience was in order. Whether you were at Citi Field or watching in isolation, you couldn't help but want to storm onto a busy street in search of nothing less than a high-five. You'd accept a handshake. You'd more likely hug a passing stranger without a pause to consider consequences. It was September of last year. Baseball still made you want to do that. You are so good. It's not just that the sentiment is always spot-on, but the quality of the writing. Brilliant!

ashie62 May 26 2020 04:14 PM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

[url]https://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/mlbpa-expected-to-propose-deferred-payments-on-prorated-salaries-in-2020-season-negotiations-reports-say/ Looks like owners offered a proposal to pay players on a sliding scale basis with the highest paid getting about 40% and the minimum guys getting their full salary. MLBPA is "disappointed" and there is some speculation the union may ask for higher prorated pay with some money to players deferred to the future. I would hope something could gain traction on the idea of deferrents of monies. Of course its kinda like let me buy a hamburger today and I pay you tuesday. What would happen if a player has deferred payments coming and his team goes bankrupt? Not likely but they have to think about that

Frayed Knot May 26 2020 05:22 PM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

That is similar to the tack the NFL recently used to get their new CBA signed. Rather than adding 6.25% to existing contracts across the board for a season 6.25% longer (16 games to 17) they tied the extra money to a percentage increase in the players' share of revenue and then skewed that increase towards the lower paid players. Since the vast majority of NFL'ers are at or near the minimum wage (more so than in MLB) it was enough to push the vote to a slim 51.5%/48.5% approval even though several of the more high profile (and more highly paid) players strongly denounced it in the time leading up to the vote. The biggest different is that while MLB players (assuming they approve) will have to live with it for only 1/2 a season while the NFL agreement is locked in for the next decade.

Ceetar May 26 2020 08:20 PM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

=ashie62 post_id=37452 time=1590531285 user_id=90] . What would happen if a player has deferred payments coming and his team goes bankrupt?

funny.

Benjamin Grimm May 27 2020 01:00 PM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

Andy Martino, SNY wrote: Behind the scenes of MLB labor talks for 2020 season, it's calm and optimistic Tuesday's dust-up did nothing to change the industry expectation that MLB will launch its season in July The players want to play. The owners want to earn. A round of calls to sources reveals that everyone is surprisingly calm behind the scenes, and the PR/social media war is mostly kabuki. For these reasons and more, Tuesday's dust-up did nothing to change the industry expectation that MLB will launch its season in July. When we did our rounds of asking for reaction on the player/agent side on Tuesday and Wednesday after the owners proposed steep cuts for top earning players, we received a number of virtual shrugs. "Unsurprising," texted one agent, in a typical response. This is a contrast to the more heated online reaction of some players and agents. Mets pitcher Marcus Stroman tweeted that the season was "not looking promising." He wasn't alone in exercising his rights to say whatever he wanted about MLB's opening pitch. But behind the scenes, players are calmly discussing a first shot that they essentially saw coming, and deciding how to respond (the Players' Association isn't tipping the details of how it will counter just yet). Most players and agents know that they will have to sacrifice something in order to play. Perhaps they will agree to a much less punishing sliding scale of salary cuts. Perhaps they will accept deferred payments to their prorated salaries, as SNY reported last week was a possibility. The bottom line: Both sides want a season. Expect more rattling of sabers in public over the next several days, while the union lawyers quietly craft a response. By the weekend, the sides could be working hard on their negotiation, and finding compromises and givebacks that facilitate an agreement. Remember: No player wants to lose a season of his short career. And no owner wants to lose to a year of TV revenue. The sides remain highly motivated to make it work. https://www.sny.tv/mets/news/behind-the-scenes-of-mlb-labor-talks-for-2020-season-its-calm-and-optimistic/313477094

Ceetar May 27 2020 01:47 PM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

I mean, it's Martino so grain of salt, but it does make sense that the public negotiation isn't the actual negotiation.

Edgy MD May 27 2020 02:15 PM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

If there's no baseball by July, Andy Martino will cover the continuing negotiations in a thong.

Frayed Knot May 27 2020 02:29 PM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

"Most players and agents know that they will have to sacrifice something in order to play. Perhaps they will agree to a much less punishing sliding scale of salary cuts. Perhaps they will accept deferred payments to their prorated salaries, as SNY reported last week was a possibility. The bottom line: Both sides want a season. Expect more rattling of sabers in public over the next several days, while the union lawyers quietly craft a response. By the weekend, the sides could be working hard on their negotiation, and finding compromises and givebacks that facilitate an agreement." The worst thing that the players could do at this point is simply fall back on the, 'we agreed to pro-rated salaries only and will accept not a penny less' line which was stated by several players and agents, almost out of reflex it seemed, when this round of negotiations started. So, to that extent, the above is good news for now ... or at least not bad news. If they decide to push for their all-or-nothing demands then they just may find the owners more willing to quit the season entirely if they believe that they'll simply lose less money that way.

MFS62 May 27 2020 03:05 PM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

Edgy MD wrote: If there's no baseball by July, Andy Martino will cover the continuing negotiations in a thong. I will have nightmares until I can get that image out of my mind. Later

Benjamin Grimm May 28 2020 10:18 AM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

https://images.theweek.com/sites/default/files/jd052720dapr.jpg?resize=807x807>

ashie62 May 28 2020 03:44 PM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

There is just not enough time to work through the acrimony.

ashie62 May 30 2020 11:24 AM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

Every day that goes by with nothing brewing brings closer to spring training 2021

Benjamin Grimm May 31 2020 06:10 PM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

For whatever it's worth. I'm curious to know where this "sense of optimism" is coming from. I do think they'll find a way. There's too much at risk not to. Even if it's too late for a July 4 opener and they have to open around July 15 instead. Jon Heyman wrote: Though there's no evidence of progress in MLB/players talks yet, there's a sense of a bit more optimism, for whatever reason. Could just be because both sides know they absolutely can't let money kill the season. Would be devastating for the sport, which should be reason enough.

G-Fafif May 31 2020 08:21 PM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

The latest... https://twitter.com/evandrellich/status/1267277887700377600?s=21

G-Fafif May 31 2020 08:22 PM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

https://twitter.com/evandrellich/status/1267278824410173443?s=21

ashie62 May 31 2020 09:43 PM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

A glimmer of hope?

Frayed Knot Jun 01 2020 03:26 AM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

- The players want a longer season since more games means a larger pct of their original 2020 salaries. The owners, who claim they'll be losing X amount per game w/no fans, are just going to see this as losing more money And then you're going to start with expanded playoffs in early Nov?!?! That would have to mean neutral sites which wouldn't help the bottom line either. - Not quite sure how the two years of expanded playoffs fits in here. Maybe players are saying to the owners that that's how they can recoup any lost money, lost money that they (players) have yet to acknowledge is real - Deferred money appears to be the same: we'll give up some money now to help you with the no gate sales thing but only temporarily and we want it back before next year even starts I'm not sure this qualifies as anything resembling progress.

Benjamin Grimm Jun 01 2020 05:13 AM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

The owners' position, true or not, is that they lose $640,000 on every game that's played without fans in the seats. The players' proposal, to add another 32 games to the season, would then mean that each team would lose an additional $20,480,000. So yeah, it's hard to see this as progress. Maybe the middle ground somehow involves guaranteeing the deferral, even if the post-season doesn't get canceled. Owners will make more money on expanded playoffs in 2021. There will most likely be some fans in the seats in at least some of the venues before 2020 is done. Whether it will be enough to make a substantial difference in revenue is unknown.

nymr83 Jun 01 2020 07:02 AM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

if the owners say they'll lose money for every game why do they want to play at all? Why didn't Manfred invoke the part of the CBA that lets him cancel all salaries?

Benjamin Grimm Jun 01 2020 07:04 AM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

I think they're saying they'll lose money every game unless the players agree to a second reduction in salary.

Ceetar Jun 01 2020 07:17 AM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

the expanded playoffs is just something they both want that has to be negotiated. 2 years is simply the terms until the next CBA. I don't think it really matters what the owners are 'claiming' about revenues, since literally everyone knows it's a lie. It's just a thing they say to try to swing the negotiation more in their favor. It's funny that they're cramming in games as the players constantly negotiate for more off days. But I guess they're probably expecting a push back to 82 or whatever. The schedule is complicated, you can't keep just saying numbers!

Benjamin Grimm Jun 01 2020 07:26 AM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

That's a good point. The schedule is complicated. I can imagine the schedule makers on standby, wondering if they're going to have to come up with an 82-game schedule or a 114-game schedule or something in between. At least, for this year one complication will be removed since there won't be teams playing a series on one coast followed by a series on the opposite coast. Time zone differences won't be a factor if teams play all their games in their own time zone or the one adjacent to their home time zone.

Benjamin Grimm Jun 01 2020 09:39 AM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

The danger of playing regular-season games through the end of October is, as has often been stated, that if there's a second wave, it could wipe out the postseason. The owners prefer to get the World Series completed by October 31 to mitigate this risk. The players are asking for regular season through October. The proposed expanded playoffs would then extend through the end of November, more or less. I wonder if any consideration has been made to putting the playoff teams in a quarantine bubble for these November games, which can all be hosted at a neutral site, perhaps in Hawaii or somewhere. For half of the fourteen teams, that quarantine would only last about a week, as they'll be eliminated in the first round. Only two teams would be bubbled for the full month. I can understand why players wouldn't want to be quarantined for months at a time, but maybe agreeing to a quarantine bubble for November post-season games would alleviate some of the owners' fears.

Ceetar Jun 01 2020 10:36 AM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

i like how people talk about a 'second wave' like the first one's receding.

Benjamin Grimm Jun 01 2020 11:18 AM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

The first wave is receding. It's way too early to spike the ball, but the numbers are in decline. Not in every area, but in most of the areas that had been hardest hit.

MFS62 Jun 01 2020 11:24 AM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

Benjamin Grimm wrote: The first wave is receding. It's way too early to spike the ball, but the numbers are in decline. Not in every area, but in most of the areas that had been hardest hit. Lost the link, but a story from Italy over the weekend said that the virus is changing and newest forms of the -19 strain are less deadly. We can only hope. Later

Benjamin Grimm Jun 01 2020 11:40 AM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

I saw that too. I'm a bit skeptical. I'll be more likely to believe it once it's confirmed by a few additional sources. But it's certainly encouraging news if true.

Ceetar Jun 01 2020 12:32 PM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

Benjamin Grimm wrote: The first wave is receding. It's way too early to spike the ball, but the numbers are in decline. Not in every area, but in most of the areas that had been hardest hit. we've all been inside, allowing the hospitals to catch up. That's hardly the same thing. Like if a huge real wave came and flooded the beach. We've got most of the people out of the water and fewer and fewer drownings, but if everyone starts going back on the beach..

Benjamin Grimm Jun 01 2020 12:36 PM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

...then there will be a second wave. I know. All I'm saying is that cases are currently in decline. Whether or not that lasts depends on how badly we screw things up going forward. I can certainly understand not being optimistic.

Frayed Knot Jun 01 2020 01:09 PM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

=Ceetar post_id=37710 time=1591017442 user_id=102]I don't think it really matters what the owners are 'claiming' about revenues, since literally everyone knows it's a lie.

Without getting into a discussion about particular numbers, it stands to reason that if they have to play all or most of somewhere between 82 and 114 games with no fans in the stands meaning no tickets sold,

no parking, no concessions, plus whatever else adds up when fans show up at ballparks then it would be idiotic to suggest that revenue isn't going to be affected.

Willets Point Jun 01 2020 01:39 PM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

Benjamin Grimm wrote: The first wave is receding. It's way too early to spike the ball, but the numbers are in decline. Not in every area, but in most of the areas that had been hardest hit. Lost the link, but a story from Italy over the weekend said that the virus is changing and newest forms of the -19 strain are less deadly. We can only hope. Later This is probably a question that's not going to be anyone here's expertise, but how much can it mutate and still be C19 and not become, say, C20.

Ceetar Jun 01 2020 01:43 PM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

COVID-19 is the disease. If a mutated SARS-CoV-2 continues to cause the same, or similar, symptoms, it'll probably still be COVID-19.

MFS62 Jun 01 2020 02:07 PM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

Willets Point wrote: This is probably a question that's not going to be anyone here's expertise, but how much can it mutate and still be C19 and not become, say, C20. IIRC, Met Irish works in a hospital lab. I hope he sees this and provides an answer. Later

nymr83 Jun 01 2020 02:09 PM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

Frayed Knot wrote: =Ceetar post_id=37710 time=1591017442 user_id=102]I don't think it really matters what the owners are 'claiming' about revenues, since literally everyone knows it's a lie. Without getting into a discussion about particular numbers, it stands to reason that if they have to play all or most of somewhere between 82 and 114 games with no fans in the stands meaning no tickets sold, no parking, no concessions, plus whatever else adds up when fans show up at ballparks then it would be idiotic to suggest that revenue isn't going to be affected.

Who is suggesting revenue 'won't be affected'? Ceetar is saying and I would agree that the numbers MLB normally provides are horseshit. Of course revenues will be down, but the idea that they are 'operating at a loss' isn't credible given that the numbers they usually show aren't credible either.



MLB isn't going to open their books, and why should they if the union says agreeing to a % of revenues is a non-starter?



the two sides dont trust each other and both have given good reason for them not to.



hopefully they'll all realize that killing the game is in nobody's interest. Because if the NBA resumes their season and starts a new one in January, the NFL plays, even hockey plays and baseball does nothing because of finances? good luck ever filling those stands again.

MFS62 Jun 01 2020 02:14 PM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

COVID-19 is the disease. If a mutated SARS-CoV-2 continues to cause the same, or similar, symptoms, it'll probably still be COVID-19. Found it - see the bottom of the article: https://www.businessinsider.com/coronavirus-losing-its-lethality-in-italy-according-to-doctors-2020-6 Later

Ceetar Jun 01 2020 02:23 PM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

COVID-19 is the disease. If a mutated SARS-CoV-2 continues to cause the same, or similar, symptoms, it'll probably still be COVID-19. Found it - see the bottom of the article: https://www.businessinsider.com/coronavirus-losing-its-lethality-in-italy-according-to-doctors-2020-6 Later seems to agree with what I said, though the genome itself may change slightly (which may mean the antibodies that work best against it may change, similar to the flu) the virus and the disease itself are the same.

Frayed Knot Jun 01 2020 03:37 PM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

=nymr83 post_id=37751 time=1591042143 user_id=54] Of course revenues will be down, but the idea that they are 'operating at a loss' isn't credible given that the numbers they usually show aren't credible either.

So MLB is a business which can lose half of their revenue off the top (with the lost half season) and then another 40-ish percent off the half they might play (estimate of the live gate as a pct of their whole

income) and it's still not possible that they'll operate at a loss off of that? I'm not buying it.





Look, I'm not pulling for the owners in this fight and I frankly don't care how they settle things. But the players are doing two things that disturb me here.

1) saying that there are no takesy-backsies cuz this was all decided back in March and if the owners wanted to say something they should have done so then. Except that they DID say so then as there

was a clause in the agreement that the issue of pay in the case of games played in empty stadiums would need to be taken up at a later date and there are apparently emails where the union asked for

and got clarification specifically about that clause so it's not like they were unaware of it. All of which makes this whole 'but Dad you prommmmised' act sounds like the childish whining that it is.

2) that they can't possibly agree to a cap-like reduction for this unusual season because that will only lead to a permanent NFL-like cap going forward ... as if that could possibly happen without their

consent. It's more like a pride thing and they don't want to be struck down by the ghost of Marvin Miller if they even temporarily agree to something that looks like a cap for one partial season.





I suspect there are divisions on both sides here: players that are willing to settle for some accommodations to empty stadiums vs those who won't play for a penny less than the pro-rated amount and

are willing to go down on their shield in order to keep their conscience free of of having caved in to a cap even in a land where millions are going without anything; and I think there are owners who

would be willing to shut down in order to lose less money by having no games than they claim they would by having no fannies in seats vs those who recognize the implications of doing that.

It would be nice if some of the adults in the room thought about this issue with an eye towards the long view. I was optimistic. I'm getting less so.

nymr83 Jun 01 2020 03:44 PM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

Frayed Knot wrote: Of course revenues will be down, but the idea that they are 'operating at a loss' isn't credible given that the numbers they usually show aren't credible either. So MLB is a business which can lose half of their revenue off the top (with the lost half season) and then another 40-ish percent off the half they might play (estimate of the live gate as a pct of their whole income) and it's still not possible that they'll operate at a loss off of that? I'm not buying it. Sorry I was not clear there at all. rather than "the idea that they are 'operating at a loss' isn't credible" I meant to say "the owners' contention that they are 'operating at a loss' isn't credible" It may be true that they will be losing money. But they have done nothing to prove it and I don't trust their numbers anyway. Which is fine, their CBA doesnt require them to prove the numbers as part of a revenue sharing/salary cap agreement with the players the way that the NFL does. They have every right to be secretive, but the union has an equal right to demand more accountability if the owners want concessions. everyone is right and wrong here. The question is do they want to figure it out and play?

Frayed Knot Jun 01 2020 05:23 PM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Jun 01 2020 06:56 PM

Given the circumstances, I find the contention that they'll lose money this year to be very credible. btw, the player's union DOES get financial data from the teams so things aren't totally on the 'cuz we said so' system. As far as how complete that data is I have no idea. Those figures aren't made public and none of us would know how to judge their accuracy even if they were. I would just prefer it if the overall union argument wasn't: no point in debating that issue because it's already been decided, and we won't discuss it further because it violates our principles. btw, Joel Sherman had a good column on this this morning (Mon) https://nypost.com/2020/06/01/sherman-mlbs-potential-disaster-isnt-about-players-greed/

Benjamin Grimm Jun 01 2020 06:16 PM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

Jeff Passan, ESPN wrote: Unable to yet reach a return-to-play agreement, Major League Baseball has discussed playing a shorter schedule in which it would pay members of the MLB Players Association their full prorated salaries, sources familiar with the situation told ESPN. Though MLB does not intend to propose this to the players, the possibility of implementing a schedule of around 50 games that would start in July has been considered by the league as a last resort in the event the parties can't come to a deal, sources said.

nymr83 Jun 01 2020 07:43 PM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

Frayed Knot wrote: Joel Sherman had a good column on ... April Fools Day was 2 months ago.

batmagadanleadoff Jun 02 2020 12:01 AM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

FiveThirtyEight.com concludes that the owners are full of shit. It's upshot is that the owners are putting out misleading numbers designed to give them the same revenue stream and profits that they would receive in a normal season while asking the players to take pandemic-related huge salary cuts. ___________________ MLB Owners Say They Could Lose $4 Billion Even If Games Are Played. Does That Math Add Up? By Neil Paine Filed under MLB Excerpt: Leave it to baseball: Somehow the biggest impediment to starting the 2020 season isn't the deadly pandemic swirling around us, but rather dollars and cents. Several MLB proposals to cut player salaries were rejected by the players' association, with both players and agents blasting the owners' plans as yet another breach of trust in a relationship full of them. A counterproposal was filed by the union Sunday afternoon, which — according to ESPN's Jeff Passan — is expected to be rejected by the league, though it might be a path to an eventual agreement. The crux of the argument is around how much of a salary hit players should take to offset the lost revenue not only from playing an abbreviated season with fewer games but also from having to play without fans in the stands — a major source of league revenue — when games do start. In March, the players came to what they believed was a firm agreement to prorate their salaries relative to how much of a full 162-game schedule is played (so, 50 percent of a full salary in an 81-game season, and so forth). The owners have claimed that agreement didn't cover the eventuality of playing games without fans, and that they have the right to negotiate further salary reductions to offset the reduction in revenue. As you might imagine, the players have, um, not been receptive to that idea. The owners have claimed (via a presentation from the commissioner's office to the union leaked to The Associated Press) that playing an abbreviated season and paying the players their prorated salaries would result in 89 percent of league revenue going to the players and would hand teams a $4 billion total loss. That number was met with immediate skepticism and fact-checking scrutiny. Infamously, the public doesn't know each MLB team's financial situation — but even a little back-of-the-envelope math off public estimates paints a far rosier picture for teams' finances even if they had to pay the players their prorated salaries. [Analysis] [Conclusion] In other words, the owners' proposed salary-reduction scheme looks like a clever sleight-of-hand designed to cause a shortened season — in the midst of a life-changing pandemic for millions of Americans — to essentially give them the same profit as they made during a full season in the midst of a baseball boom. Unless we think baseball teams were just barely breaking even last year (despite record revenues and even the small-market Kansas City Royals selling for $1 billion), it's hard to believe the owners aren't trying to live by the words of former British Prime Minister Winston Churchill: “Never let a good crisis go to waste.” Trouble is, everyone else stands to lose under this tactic. The players face the choice between taking a massive pay cut — and handing owners an undue profit — or making themselves the villains in the public's eyes, potentially catching the blame for a lost season. The fans would lose a source of joy at a moment when those are sorely needed. And as ESPN's Buster Olney wrote Sunday, the future of the game itself could be at stake if MLB misses an entire year to bickering over money in the middle of a recession and pandemic. Although it still seems like all parties involved have too much to lose not to come to a compromise, it bears questioning why MLB owners would let the future of the sport hang in doubt to preserve their own profitable status quo in the short term. https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/mlb-owners-say-they-could-lose-4-billion-even-if-games-are-played-does-that-math-add-up/

Willets Point Jun 02 2020 08:08 AM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

Quelle surprise!

nymr83 Jun 02 2020 08:14 AM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

=batmagadanleadoff post_id=37776 time=1591077706 user_id=68] FiveThirtyEight.com concludes that the owners are full of shit. It's upshot is that the owners are putting out misleading numbers designed to give them the same revenue stream and profits that they would receive in a normal season while asking the players to take pandemic-related huge salary cuts.

This is the least surprising thing since learning Bobby Bonilla was Rickey Henderson's partner in the infamous 1999 NLCS card game.

Edgy MD Jun 02 2020 10:58 AM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

I'm surprised to say this, but I'm ready to let go of the season. We have 1968, 1929, and 1918 out there already. We might as well toss 1994 in the pile. I want baseball back, but not as some sort of farcical quest to return to normal — #americastrong hashtag bullshit. All this horror is a byproduct of normal. MLB should taking this time to put less energy into returning to the status quo and more into reforming itself.

nymr83 Jun 02 2020 11:43 AM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

I don't agree. NOT playing games is the worst possible outcome for everyone involved - fans, players, owners, non-player employees, broadcast partners, everyone. Who benefits for not playing at all?

batmagadanleadoff Jun 02 2020 11:55 AM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

=nymr83 post_id=37801 time=1591119825 user_id=54] Who benefits [from] not playing at all?

Anyone who would die from covid-19 but for the playing of MLB games.

Frayed Knot Jun 02 2020 12:37 PM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

Benjamin Grimm wrote: "Jeff Passan, ESPN" -- Unable to yet reach a return-to-play agreement, Major League Baseball has discussed playing a shorter schedule in which it would pay members of the MLB Players Association their full prorated salaries, sources familiar with the situation told ESPN. Though MLB does not intend to propose this to the players, the possibility of implementing a schedule of around 50 games that would start in July has been considered by the league as a last resort in the event the parties can't come to a deal, sources said. This is just a giant game of chicken at this point. The problem with killing this season and just saying 'Let's start afresh next April' (aside from the blown opportunity of course) is that the CBA is up at the end of '21 so the bickering is only going to increase to the point where it's not a given that they'll start on time even IF Covid is all under control by then. The owners are going to accuse the players of killing the season while the players will want revenge for their lost paychecks in 2020 on top of the FA money they think they were cheated out of for the last two/three years. So while it would be nice if the time could be put into reform rather than just slap-dash repairs ... I don't think that's what's gonna happen.

Edgy MD Jun 02 2020 12:50 PM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

=nymr83 post_id=37801 time=1591119825 user_id=54] I don't agree. NOT playing games is the worst possible outcome for everyone involved - fans, players, owners, non-player employees, broadcast partners, everyone.

It's 2020. I can think of a dozen worse outcomes without even trying.

TransMonk Jun 02 2020 01:06 PM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

Yeah...baseball is around #47 on my priority list right now. If they do play, it'll be a mangled, you-rah-rah mess that will always have an asterisk next to it. They can play if they want, but I don't believe I'll pay attention. I'm watching the world burning down around us.

Ceetar Jun 02 2020 01:26 PM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

I could see, particularly the Dodgers, try to claim 2020 doesn't exist if they don't play, and that say Mookie Betts is NOT a free agent. While the players argue the opposite.

Benjamin Grimm Jun 02 2020 01:43 PM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

https://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/mlb-2020-season-update-where-things-stand-as-mlbpa-owners-take-step-toward-a-deal/ https://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/mlbpa-on-board-with-leagues-plan-for-regional-schedule-in-2020-season-per-report/ The article says... After some heated discussions last month, it appears the two sides are getting closer to a deal. However, I really don't see anything in the article that supports that statement. I think that the contention is that since the owners agreed to pay the full pro-rated amount for a 50-game season, and the players want the same for a 114-game season, the obvious solution is to meet in the middle. The mid-point between 50 games and 114 is 82, which is the original number that the owners proposed, with reductions. Meeting in the middle sounds much easier said than done.

Frayed Knot Jun 02 2020 02:34 PM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

I could see, particularly the Dodgers, try to claim 2020 doesn't exist if they don't play, and that say Mookie Betts is NOT a free agent. While the players argue the opposite. That was one of those things decided back in the March 26th agreement (and part of the very first post in this thread on 3/27): "The biggest issue in the negotiations was service time, and the two sides agreed that if there's a season of any length, players would receive credit for a full year as if it was a regular 162-game season. And if the season is canceled, players will receive the same service time they accrued in 2019. This means that Los Angeles Dodgers All-Star outfielder Mookie Betts, who was acquired along with former Cy Young winner David Price in February from the Boston Red Sox, could be a free agent without playing a single regular-season game for the Dodgers." Now I realize that the above was written by a journalist (Bob Nightengale - USA Today) so you're likely to believe he simply made it all up, but Betts had 5 yrs + 70 days of service coming in and so will get credit for a full season if they play any part of this one and a full season if they don't. iow, he'll be a FA and if the Dodgers try to contend that it'll get thrown out of court faster than Lenny Dykstra's lawsuit.

Ceetar Jun 02 2020 04:07 PM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

you used the words Bob Nightengale and journalist in the same sentence. well, i guess it's true, in the same way my 5 year old is a journalist, as she owns a journal. This is unprecedented. The owners are assholes. Courts don't do anything fast.

Benjamin Grimm Jun 02 2020 04:54 PM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

Some are saying (and I'm not sure if this would hold up) that the March 26 agreement gives the commissioner the ability to unilaterally declare a season of any length, as long as it adheres to the rest of the agreement from that day. (Meaning pro-rated salaries with no sliding scale or other reductions.) If true, if the negotiations break down, he can declare the 50-game season. I'd rather see 50 games than zero games, but 50 games makes for a poor excuse for a season. It would certainly be a tainted championship for whoever wins it. I'd rather see a 70-game season with a playoff field of 16 teams. The extra round(s) of playoffs should at least somewhat offset the cost of the extra 20 games.

Frayed Knot Jun 02 2020 05:00 PM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

=Ceetar post_id=37818 time=1591135625 user_id=102]This is unprecedented. The owners are assholes. Courts don't do anything fast.

In that case couldn't the Dodgers just deny Betts his FA-gency no matter what his service time adds up to?

I mean sure, the Rules say that you can be a FA after six years but the clubs might just unilaterally negate that.

Ceetar Jun 02 2020 05:31 PM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

Frayed Knot wrote: This is unprecedented. The owners are assholes. Courts don't do anything fast. In that case couldn't the Dodgers just deny Betts his FA-gency no matter what his service time adds up to? I mean sure, the Rules say that you can be a FA after six years but the clubs might just unilaterally negate that. they do this all the time. Not usually to the stars, but not bring up guys to start the season is basically "we're keeping you an extra year" Or they'll declare it the 2020-2021 season and manipulate it somehow.Or maybe they'll just screw the minor leaguers more.

Frayed Knot Jun 02 2020 06:28 PM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

Frayed Knot wrote: This is unprecedented. The owners are assholes. Courts don't do anything fast. In that case couldn't the Dodgers just deny Betts his FA-gency no matter what his service time adds up to? I mean sure, the Rules say that you can be a FA after six years but the clubs might just unilaterally negate that. they do this all the time. No. They. Don't. -- Not usually to the stars, but not bring up guys to start the season is basically "we're keeping you an extra year" And now, as usual, you're changing the subject and conditions of your argument. Delaying starting the clock on a guy's career (which, btw, is done MORE often to the stars than the average player although less often then is charged) isn't covered in the CBA while six full years = FA is. But somehow you claim that clubs deny FA-gency "all the time" to players who have earned it. Can you name ONE instance where this has happened? -- Or they'll declare it the 2020-2021 season and manipulate it somehow. Except they've already agreed that 2020 is a full season as far as service time goes no matter how long and the whole point of collective bargaining is that one side can't simply "declare" something and impose it on the other. If the owners could do that they would have Declared a salary cap and an end to free agency long ago and we wouldn't be having this discussion. -- Or maybe they'll just screw the minor leaguers more. Again, irrelevant to this discussion.

Edgy MD Jun 02 2020 08:25 PM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

I haven't screwed any minor leaguers at all this season. Stupid coronavirus is interfering with my whole lifestyle.

Ceetar Jun 02 2020 10:04 PM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

I'm not changing any argument, my argument is simply that the owners are evil and do evil things and get away with it, and this is unprecedented and I don't trust them to negotiate in good faith.

Willets Point Jun 03 2020 09:27 AM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

Edgy MD wrote: I'm surprised to say this, but I'm ready to let go of the season. I'm here too. Maybe they can set up a fun tournament for a month or so, but trying to play anything resembling a season at this point is a recipe for failure.

Ceetar Jun 03 2020 09:46 AM Cy Youngs of Yore (split from MLB negotiations thread)

I have no problem with a short season. It's different, but whatever. But there's just so much going on I'm finding it hard to imagine. Certainly shouldn't happen with snipers on the roof or heavily armed people patrolling outside, if they get to a point of letting some fans in.

Benjamin Grimm Jun 03 2020 10:07 AM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

I agree that I would prefer a season without snipers. I still hope they play. A fifty-game season would be pretty weak, but if they can get closer to 80 that would be satisfactory.

MFS62 Jun 03 2020 10:27 AM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

Benjamin Grimm wrote: I agree that I would prefer a season without snipers. I still hope they play. A fifty-game season would be pretty weak, but if they can get closer to 80 that would be satisfactory. They're getting into out of sight, out of mind territory. I don't remember, did average MLB attendance increase or decrease the year after the last partial seasons? Later

Ceetar Jun 03 2020 10:37 AM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

was 25 years ago, prices were pennies compared to now, tv, etc. it's a different world, and MLB attendance is only a tiny portion of it. Plus lingering Covid, public health, rampaging cops, who knows what going to the park will be like in 2021?

MFS62 Jun 03 2020 10:58 AM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

=Ceetar post_id=37859 time=1591202237 user_id=102] was 25 years ago, prices were pennies compared to now, tv, etc. it's a different world, and MLB attendance is only a tiny portion of it.

I wonder if there was a decreased fan interest across all media. Anyone remember?

Later

Benjamin Grimm Jun 03 2020 11:17 AM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

There certainly was a decreased interest on my part, and I never came all the way back. 1995 was the last post-season that didn't involve the Mets where I watched any of the games. I remember watching the Braves-Indians World Series and realizing that I just didn't care anymore and was watching out of habit. So yeah, if 2020 is canceled people will lose interest. Some will come all the way back, some will come partially back, like I did, and some won't come back at all.

metsmarathon Jun 03 2020 11:26 AM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

yeah, but the general idea at the time was that the shortening of the season, and the greed that caused it, turned people off from baseball, moreso than it caused people to forget about baseball. now, this season, the majority of the shortening is due to non-greed factors. the extent to which the season is further shortened is certainly due to greed-factors, and the extent to which that ends up being perceived as the driving factor will greatly figure into the fan response, i think. no matter what happens, one thing is certain. nobody will give two shits about the rampant and apparent greed in the nfl, and will flock to them regardless their stated collective position about the failings of baseball.

Ceetar Jun 03 2020 11:29 AM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

in 2020 people still struggle with how to quantitatively assess 'interest' in a sport, and also how that interest translates to revenue. Like you could not have cable and attend no games, but still watch ad-riddled bat flips via social media share. how does that factor in, and how likely is that person, in perhaps 10 years, to have kids and/or more money and spend it on the game?

Frayed Knot Jun 03 2020 12:15 PM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

=metsmarathon post_id=37863 time=1591205204 user_id=83] yeah, but the general idea at the time was that the shortening of the season, and the greed that caused it, turned people off from baseball, moreso than it caused people to forget about baseball. now, this season, the majority of the shortening is due to non-greed factors. the extent to which the season is further shortened is certainly due to greed-factors, and the extent to which that ends up being perceived as the driving factor will greatly figure into the fan response, i think.

If baseball doesn't play while every other league manages to do so it WILL be seen as greed which canceled the season and it will be doubly devastating to the sport.

MLB is already taking it on the chin from various segments of the national sports media (who, let's face it, are predisposed to do so anyway) but if they can't manage

to come up with something in the next few weeks they'll actually deserve all or most of the trashing they get.

metsmarathon Jun 03 2020 01:28 PM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

yes, of course. i meant to separate out the part of the season-shortening that has thus far been beyond their control, and the subsequent shortening that will be in their own control. if the league and the players cnnot figure out how to share a 4-or-so billion dollar pie, then fuck 'em. i can like soccer instead.

Benjamin Grimm Jun 03 2020 01:37 PM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

ESPN News Services wrote: Major League Baseball has rejected the players' offer for a 114-game regular season with no additional salary cuts and told the union it did not plan to make a counterproposal, sources confirmed to ESPN.

41Forever Jun 03 2020 01:49 PM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

I hope the NBA return plan released today lights a fire under them.

Benjamin Grimm Jun 03 2020 01:55 PM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

No counterproposal, but apparently talks will continue. This is from Sports Illustrated, quoting Ken Rosenthal of The Athletic: According to Rosenthal, MLB said it would not send a counter to the MLBPA's proposal. Instead, the league reportedly has begun to discuss plans with owners on playing a shorter season without fans. In addition, MLB is reportedly making itself available to discuss additional ideas with the union, particularly on resuming the season without fans. Sounds like they're considering the commissioner's unilateral option, which the union probably disputes.

G-Fafif Jun 03 2020 02:46 PM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

However many or few games are played, count only those the Mets win.

ashie62 Jun 03 2020 10:58 PM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

I'm all in on Korean baseball, fuck MLB

nymr83 Jun 04 2020 07:15 AM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

=ashie62 post_id=37887 time=1591246716 user_id=90] I'm all in on Korean baseball, fuck MLB

Have you been watching? I watched a couple of games, but if its not the Mets its more background noise than interest

Benjamin Grimm Jun 04 2020 07:45 AM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

I still care. I really want to be able to watch baseball. Mets baseball, not Korean baseball. It's looking more likely (for the moment, anyway) that Manfred is going to unilaterally declare a 50-game season. It would be a totally lame-ass season, but I'd rather see that than nothing.

Benjamin Grimm Jun 05 2020 01:04 PM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

Andy Martino wrote: First the good news: MLB players will report to spring training even if the owners impose an approximately 50 game schedule. Because of this, people on all sides of the current labor dispute are extremely confident that there will be a 2020 season. Here's more good news. MLB might make another financial offer to players after all, according to sources, despite a belief earlier this week that it would not. The negotiation for a new agreement on pay is not over, and it won't necessarily be limited only to back channels. Full article here He does a lot of recapping and concludes with this: The upshot of all this? The next week or so will decide if we get a shortened and contentious season that begins in late July or a more harmonious one that launches closer to August

MFS62 Jun 05 2020 01:35 PM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

My prediction for the starting date for season (in the CPF poll) of August 1 is starting to look good. Later

The Hot Corner Jun 06 2020 08:08 PM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

At this point, I have, for the most part, become apathetic regarding MLB. If they decide to play great, if not, then life goes on. I have far more important things to worry about than whether a bunch of millionaires and a handful of billionaires can come to an agreement to play a game that I loved as a child, but find that I no longer associate the joy of my youth. I now view MLB as more of a business, rather than the joyous game of my youth ( which I was fortunate to play to the age of 20).

Edgy MD Jun 06 2020 08:34 PM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

Don't get me wrong. Baseball still delights me. I love the personalities. I love the different ways of excelling. I love the different types of athletes. And I love that the whole point is to get home. My attitude toward this lockdown is, though, that the desire to get back to normal or as close as possible to normal is a waste. We can make things a lot better, in virtually ever sector of society, every sector of the economy, and I think baseball should put their efforts into making things better rather than having a farcical version of the same old.

Benjamin Grimm Jun 07 2020 03:37 PM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

[TWEET]https://twitter.com/CGasparino/status/1269716874885038080[/TWEET]

ashie62 Jun 07 2020 06:05 PM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

I posted early on that 2020 baseball was in jeopardy. Beyond jeopardy now On my list of things important to me now MLB is 11th on a scale of 10. I am however enjoying DFS in the KBO. Same strategies. You do have to learn your Kim's

ashie62 Jun 07 2020 06:07 PM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

Benjamin Grimm wrote: [TWEET]https://twitter.com/CGasparino/status/1269716874885038080[/TWEET] Well.... if the owners stick to the 50 game dingy I doubt players will be smiling or terribly motivated to win, no less play.

Frayed Knot Jun 08 2020 12:42 PM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

So the owners' latest proposal is for a 76 game regular season with the players getting 50% of their pro-rated salary, a rate which would go up to 75% if the planned post-season is completed. I guess one thing the owners are worried about is a new spike in Covid right around the time post-season would start. At that point the players would have their money while the teams would lose out on the biggest share of TV money if no playoffs. If the full (76 + post) season does happen 75% of pro-rated would wind up around the same as full pro-rated at 57 games so the owners could argue that it's 'better' than their fall-back position of 50 games which Manfred could apparently declare to be the case although the players could counter that they'd need to work about 30% more just in order to get the same. The owners are also throwing in a waiving of the FA compensation rules this winter which would free potential FAs from a drag on their negotiations although with the CBA up after 2021 it's likely those rules have their days numbered anyway so this just speeds that up by a year heading into a winter where dollars are going to be tight coming off the reduced season.

ashie62 Jun 08 2020 01:32 PM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

So, if they play a 76 game or about 1/2 season the players get 75% pay? MLBPA would have to be total idiots to not make this work

Benjamin Grimm Jun 08 2020 01:36 PM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

No, they get 75% of their pro-rated pay. For a 76-game season, assuming the postseason gets played, players would receive 35.1% of their salary. (76/162) * 0.75. That really doesn't look like the kind of proposal that the players will go for, does it? Maybe if instead of 50 and 75 percent it was 75 and 100. And maybe that will be the counter proposal.

Ceetar Jun 08 2020 01:53 PM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

=ashie62 post_id=38367 time=1591644769 user_id=90] So, if they play a 76 game or about 1/2 season the players get 75% pay? MLBPA would have to be total idiots to not make this work

it's pretty much the exact same deal, oh and maybe they have to sign a risk waiver.

MFS62 Jun 08 2020 02:41 PM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

Not only is he incompetent, but he's a sneak: https://www.yahoo.com/sports/mlb-accuses-ngel-hern-ndez-200536181.html And then he lies about it. Later

Frayed Knot Jun 08 2020 02:47 PM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

=ashie62 post_id=38367 time=1591644769 user_id=90] So, if they play a 76 game or about 1/2 season the players get 75% pay? MLBPA would have to be total idiots to not make this work

Not 75% of their scheduled pay, but 75% of what would be essentially 50% of that original figure.



Remember that the March 26th agreement called for pro-rated pay depending on how long the season was, so players are down to 50% right off the top if this winds up at 75-80 games.

Then there was a clause in that agreement which stated that further talks needed to occur if the truncated season was going to be played in empty stadiums. The interpretation of that

clause is the part we/they are stuck on. Players want to pretend it was a meaningless add-on; owners are claiming they can't function without a reduction off the pro-rated part.

Benjamin Grimm Jun 08 2020 02:54 PM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

And not all games will be played in empty stadiums. There won't be any crowds of 40,000, but I know that there are mayors and governors who said that they would allow paid spectators at sporting events. (I haven't been keeping track of which ones have said that.) If you could put 5,000 people in the park and charge them $100 per ticket (I'm totally making these numbers up) that would mitigate the $640,000 they owners will lose (using numbers that they probably totally made up) each game. What happens if the players agree to 75% and then the ticket revenue starts up again? The owners addressed that in an earlier proposal, but they players don't trust the bookkeeping so that didn't get anywhere.

batmagadanleadoff Jun 08 2020 03:00 PM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

Frayed Knot wrote: Then there was a clause in that agreement which stated that further talks needed to occur if the truncated season was going to be played in empty stadiums.... Players want to pretend it was a meaningless add-on; owners are claiming they can't function without a reduction off the pro-rated part. Meaningless add-on? Try having a contracts law professor explain that one. No contract terms are meaningless. Otherwise, why the hell would it be in there? Especially here, when both sides are represented by the most sophisticated attorneys in this particular field.

batmagadanleadoff Jun 08 2020 03:01 PM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

Benjamin Grimm wrote: And not all games will be played in empty stadiums. There won't be any crowds of 40,000, but I know that there are mayors and governors who said that they would allow paid spectators at sporting events. (I haven't been keeping track of which ones have said that.) If you could put 5,000 people in the park and charge them $100 per ticket (I'm totally making these numbers up) that would mitigate the $640,000 they owners will lose (using numbers that they probably totally made up) each game. I wouldn't go to a baseball game in these times if they paid me. And then fed me.

Frayed Knot Jun 08 2020 03:11 PM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

Frayed Knot wrote: Then there was a clause in that agreement which stated that further talks needed to occur if the truncated season was going to be played in empty stadiums.... Players want to pretend it was a meaningless add-on; owners are claiming they can't function without a reduction off the pro-rated part. Meaningless add-on? Try having a contracts law professor explain that one. No contract terms are meaningless. Otherwise, why the hell would it be in there? Especially here, when both sides are represented by the most sophisticated attorneys in this particular field. Well that's been My point all along. Not that I'm rooting for the players to lose out to owners in this negotiations (I don't particularly care how it winds up) but I've been pissed at the player side reaction to this whole thing which has essentially been that the pay issue was already decided back in March (pro-rated portion of existing contracts) and that if the teams wanted something else then they should have brought it up back then. But of course they DID bring it up back then but the future was so sketchy at that point that there was no point in even talking about specific numbers. And each of their counter- proposals to plans from the ownership side have yet to acknowledge that the issue of something less than the same per-game rate is even in play. This is getting like the old days where the more negotiating sessions they have the further apart the two sides get.

batmagadanleadoff Jun 08 2020 03:15 PM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

Frayed Knot wrote: Frayed Knot wrote: Then there was a clause in that agreement which stated that further talks needed to occur if the truncated season was going to be played in empty stadiums.... Players want to pretend it was a meaningless add-on; owners are claiming they can't function without a reduction off the pro-rated part. Meaningless add-on? Try having a contracts law professor explain that one. No contract terms are meaningless. Otherwise, why the hell would it be in there? Especially here, when both sides are represented by the most sophisticated attorneys in this particular field. Well that's been My point all along. Not that I'm rooting for the players to lose out to owners in this negotiations (I don't particularly care how it winds up) but I've been pissed at the player side reaction to this whole thing.... I know. I'm with you on this one.

Benjamin Grimm Jun 08 2020 03:25 PM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

=batmagadanleadoff post_id=38390 time=1591650105 user_id=68] I wouldn't go to a baseball game in these times if they paid me. And then fed me.

I wouldn't either. But I'm sure there are plenty who would, especially in places like Florida and Texas.

kcmets Jun 08 2020 03:42 PM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

I'd go to a game if my Jeannie could blink me in but no way I'm spending an hour X 2 on the train and a trip on the '7' X 2 from GCT.

Ceetar Jun 08 2020 03:58 PM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

Benjamin Grimm wrote: And not all games will be played in empty stadiums. There won't be any crowds of 40,000, but I know that there are mayors and governors who said that they would allow paid spectators at sporting events. (I haven't been keeping track of which ones have said that.) If you could put 5,000 people in the park and charge them $100 per ticket (I'm totally making these numbers up) that would mitigate the $640,000 they owners will lose (using numbers that they probably totally made up) each game. I wouldn't go to a baseball game in these times if they paid me. And then fed me. I wouldn't be surprised if "tickets" are $200 a pop for your own section and include food/beverages (prepackaged stuff, they're not opening up teh whole stadium) that said, I would go to a game if it was affordable, but probably alone or with just one family member. Masks, stay outside, be prepared to leave early/in shifts. Mostly safe. I wonder what it'd be like. I'm not a vocal person, so I'm not gonna be the guy heckling and chanting lets go mets by myself. Will their be enough of a crowd to feel like a crowd? or will it just be like watching outside? Might be better off with the TV and my own deck then.

Benjamin Grimm Jun 08 2020 05:46 PM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

According to the Associated Press, the latest MLB proposal offers to expand the playoffs this year to up to 16 teams. (Why not?) And there's also this: The proposal would eliminate all free-agent compensation for the first time since the free-agent era started in 1976. It also would forgive 20% of the $170 million in salaries already advanced to players during April and May. The part about the free-agent compensation will only help a small subset of the players. I'm not familiar with the $170 million advance.

nymr83 Jun 08 2020 07:33 PM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

Not only is he incompetent, but he's a sneak: https://www.yahoo.com/sports/mlb-accuses-ngel-hern-ndez-200536181.html And then he lies about it. Later Worst umpire ever.

Willets Point Jun 09 2020 08:29 AM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

Benjamin Grimm wrote: According to the Associated Press, the latest MLB proposal offers to expand the playoffs this year to up to 16 teams. (Why not?) And there's also this: The proposal would eliminate all free-agent compensation for the first time since the free-agent era started in 1976. It also would forgive 20% of the $170 million in salaries already advanced to players during April and May. The part about the free-agent compensation will only help a small subset of the players. I'm not familiar with the $170 million advance. This is why I'm saying that they just make it a fun tournament instead of trying to play a "season" that goes on and on into November (and into a second wave of COVID-19). Have a group stage with five groups of six teams each. The top 3 teams from each group and one wild card advance to the playoffs. Play the whole thing over 2-3 months and finish in October like normal.

Benjamin Grimm Jun 09 2020 09:09 AM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

I would be down with that idea. Don't even call it a World Series. This year there would be an "MLB Tournament Champion" instead. It's just nomenclature, to be sure, but I'd rather see the Mets with two World Championships and a Tournament Championship than three World Championships with one having an asterisk. There would, forever, be that "yeah, but..." attached to it.

ashie62 Jun 09 2020 12:37 PM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

I guess the owners could ram a 50 game schedule down the players throats. I wish there would be fans attending just so as to see how many people can pony up for a day at the park. It feels as if neither side is trying to get this done with any real urgency Baffling

bmfc1 Jun 09 2020 04:01 PM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

I've had it all wrong. I thought that the owners were greedy and making a fortune but that's not true according to the owner of the Cardinals: [BLOCKQUOTE]The industry isn't very profitable to be quite honest, and I think they understand that. But they think, you know, the owners are hiding profits, and you know there's been a little bit of a distrust there.[/BLOCKQUOTE] So the players should play the rest of the season for minimum wage and when the ballparks open please raise the ticket prices to help those less fortunate than us. https://mlb.nbcsports.com/2020/06/09/cardinals-owner-bill-dewitt-jr-the-industry-isnt-very-profitable-to-be-quite-honest/

Edgy MD Jun 09 2020 04:09 PM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

Benjamin Grimm wrote: And not all games will be played in empty stadiums. There won't be any crowds of 40,000, but I know that there are mayors and governors who said that they would allow paid spectators at sporting events. (I haven't been keeping track of which ones have said that.) If you could put 5,000 people in the park and charge them $100 per ticket (I'm totally making these numbers up) that would mitigate the $640,000 they owners will lose (using numbers that they probably totally made up) each game. I wouldn't go to a baseball game in these times if they paid me. And then fed me. I'm tempted. Paid me and fed me, you say?

Frayed Knot Jun 09 2020 06:32 PM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

With outdoor transmission, particularly in warmer weather, said to be very low -- and even a new report from WHO saying that transmission from the infected but asymptomatic is also rare* -- it shouldn't be a problem allowing at least some tickets to be sold. Maybe not immediately but as the 'season' (whatever that winds up meaning) progresses. Below is a theoretical 10 Row / 12 Seat across section of seats. The X's are people, the dashes empty seats. Tickets are sold in blocks of four only so those buying them would (should?) be comfortable with those they're sitting with while each group has several feet of horizontal and vertical feet between it the nearest other groups. In this (totally made up) example the stadium sells 32 seats out of 120, or just over 25% How well something like this works out will depend on the public's acceptance of whatever plan each stadium comes up with, but a potential 10,000 seats sold for each game is a helluva lot better than zero. X X _ _ _ X X _ _ _ X X X X _ _ _ X X _ _ _ X X _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ X X _ _ _ X X _ _ _ _ _ X X _ _ _ X X _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ X X _ _ _ X X _ _ _ X X X X _ _ _ X X _ _ _ X X * Some WHO spokeswoman announced this on Monday and then had to do a bunch of verbal gymnastics to walk it back today. Nowhere did she imply that what she previously said was wrong (in the end she pretty much stuck to yesterday's story) but you can tell that the org was trying to NOT to make that scenario sound too rosy lest people hear "rare" and interpret it as a license to ignore social distancing norms.

Ceetar Jun 09 2020 08:30 PM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

sure but they have to walk past each other. at best it'd be row per group and then skip a row. but still probably with concessions closed. and then you're still all walking in/out the same exits. I mean, it's doable in certain situations and states are opening up anyway because actually providing support for people is too foreign for them, so they'll probably with some suitable half-assed approach.

Gwreck Jun 09 2020 08:59 PM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

=bmfc1 post_id=38475 time=1591740071 user_id=73] I've had it all wrong. I thought that the owners were greedy and making a fortune but that's not true according to the owner of the Cardinals: [BLOCKQUOTE]The industry isn't very profitable to be quite honest, and I think they understand that. But they think, you know, the owners are hiding profits, and you know there's been a little bit of a distrust there.[/BLOCKQUOTE]

I can't imagine why there would be distrust with ridiculous statements like this. The owners' position on this is untenable. Of course they are making plenty of profit each season, and the value of franchises has only continue to rise.

nymr83 Jun 09 2020 10:18 PM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

=Ceetar post_id=38489 time=1591756212 user_id=102] sure but they have to walk past each other. at best it'd be row per group and then skip a row. but still probably with concessions closed. and then you're still all walking in/out the same exits. I mean, it's doable in certain situations and states are opening up anyway because actually providing support for people is too foreign for them, so they'll probably with some suitable half-assed approach.

well, you could probably sell closed cans of beer/soda, crackerjacks and other such things with social distance lines like at the grocery store - CC only no cash, we suggest you wear gloves and the employees arent touching you or the stuff, they are basically just standing there to ring you up and call security if you steal beer since no cooking is happening.



the beer/soda/water sales alone would likely be a huge profit boost. I'm sure the owners will think of this AFTER they get players to agree to salary cuts.

Ceetar Jun 09 2020 10:29 PM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

oh absolutely they're waiting until the deal is in place before they try to get some of the "lost" revenue back. They don't actually care about employees, and vendors are barely employees (what's left of them) anyway, so I wouldn't be surprised to see canned/bottled/package stuff sold via vendor. of course, they have the tech to order via app and deliver to your seat, pre-paid. That would be the smart thing.

Frayed Knot Jun 10 2020 05:04 AM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

=Ceetar post_id=38489 time=1591756212 user_id=102] sure but they have to walk past each other. at best it'd be row per group and then skip a row.

Fine, then play around with it a bit:



X X _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ X X

X X _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ X X

_ _ _ _ X X X X _ _ _ _

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

_ _ X X _ _ _ X X _ _ _

_ _ X X _ _ _ X X _ _ _

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

_ _ _ _ X X X X _ _ _ _

X X _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ X X

X X _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ X X



Same section, same number of people but now nobody has to squeeze by anybody not within their own group in order to go to the can - although certain

distances between groups might be a shade less. The point is, that with outdoor transmissions being rare, particularly in the sun and the heat, and with

the sick and/or vulnerable unlikely to venture out anyway, a set-up such as this is unlikely to cause even small, localized spikes in new cases.



I'm not all that concerned with concessions. Sell them via masked vendors or have the patrons walk up to a plexiglass protected partition and buy them

there as if from your local deli. It won't be hard to figure something out.



As far as using the same entrance/exit, that's what is going on at stores and other locations all the time, and here we're talking about buildings designed

to handle 40-50,000 having 1/5?, 1/4?, 1/3? of that. The flow of bodies can be safely controlled.



Bottom line is that IF/when this thing gets off the ground it doesn't mean that they have to go start to finish in totally empty stadiums. At best they're

not going to get started until mid-July at best and conditions in July thru September aren't going to be like they were in March thru May anymore than

March-May was like Dec-Feb.

Frayed Knot Jun 10 2020 05:11 AM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

Overnight the players responded to the latest owner proposals by countering with 89 games and, of course, full pro-rated salaries. So the pattern continues: the owners say that, with no live gate, they'll be losing money with each game so they either need a shorter schedule or a reduction in the pay rate, at which point the players respond with: 'OK, how 'bout a longer season and the idea of a reduction beyond pro-rated isn't even a topic for discussion'. At this point I think we're down to two choices: a very short season or no season. But at least the rancor generated by this whole mess brings next season into question as well.

Ceetar Jun 10 2020 06:42 AM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

it's not so much the point of sale as having a handful of the workers themselves together in the tighter quarters. other stores/locations aren't all exiting at once. I guess it could work if you only use the field level and only use the rotunda for an exit, where there's no looping in staircases. There's still likely cramping as you exit seating sections and outside bathrooms and the like. There are probably minimal risks overall, but they are risks.

Benjamin Grimm Jun 10 2020 06:51 AM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

People can be ushered out of the stadium one section at a time for each exit. Hopefully the fans would cooperate.

Frayed Knot Jun 10 2020 06:54 AM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

=Ceetar post_id=38504 time=1591792976 user_id=102]There are probably minimal risks overall, but [there] are risks.

As there are anytime one walks out their front door.

Ceetar Jun 10 2020 07:14 AM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

Frayed Knot wrote: There are probably minimal risks overall, but [there] are risks. As there are anytime one walks out their front door. not even close to the point. Benjamin Grimm wrote: People can be ushered out of the stadium one section at a time for each exit. Hopefully the fans would cooperate. Then you need additional ushers, crowd control. These things add more employees, and the more people you add to a situation, the riskier it becomes. I guess it doesn't really matter, as season ticket holders are going to demand first rights, and they're going to demand the riff raff not be allowed in their section, and teams will go with that. Which means you need to keep the ushers at each section or a non-elite person might wander down into a season ticket holder's seat! So you could probably repurpose those ushers into some measure of crowd control/direction for exiting. I'm not real hopeful they will do this right, or if they'll even try though. They'll probably just take 25% opening to mean let 10k people in and have like Alonso film a "wear your mask!" thing for the scoreboard.

41Forever Jun 10 2020 07:57 AM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

I guess it doesn't really matter, as season ticket holders are going to demand first rights, and they're going to demand the riff raff not be allowed in their section, and teams will go with that. Which means you need to keep the ushers at each section or a non-elite person might wander down into a season ticket holder's seat! So you could probably repurpose those ushers into some measure of crowd control/direction for exiting. Every game I've been to is the last couple of years has had ushers at the top of each section in the lower levels. I don't think it has anything to do with “elites.”

kcmets Jun 10 2020 08:06 AM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

[YOUTUBE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ErXbMB9R5-0[/YOUTUBE]

Ceetar Jun 10 2020 08:13 AM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

=41Forever post_id=38508 time=1591797431 user_id=69] I guess it doesn't really matter, as season ticket holders are going to demand first rights, and they're going to demand the riff raff not be allowed in their section, and teams will go with that. Which means you need to keep the ushers at each section or a non-elite person might wander down into a season ticket holder's seat! So you could probably repurpose those ushers into some measure of crowd control/direction for exiting. Every game I've been to is the last couple of years has had ushers at the top of each section in the lower levels. I don't think it has anything to do with “elites.”

it has everything to do with the people that are sitting in that section not wanting people that didn't spend as much money as them to sit in that section.



We probably shouldn't even call them ushers, since they don't do that. they're guards.

Benjamin Grimm Jun 10 2020 08:58 AM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

=Ceetar post_id=38510 time=1591798439 user_id=102] it has everything to do with the people that are sitting in that section not wanting people that didn't spend as much money as them to sit in that section.

Well, that's part of it, sure, but the primary reason is that teams don't want fans to be able to buy a $40 ticket and sit in $300 seats.

41Forever Jun 10 2020 09:11 AM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

Benjamin Grimm wrote: =Ceetar post_id=38510 time=1591798439 user_id=102] it has everything to do with the people that are sitting in that section not wanting people that didn't spend as much money as them to sit in that section. Well, that's part of it, sure, but the primary reason is that teams don't want fans to be able to buy a $40 ticket and sit in $300 seats.

I don't have a problem with that. (I actually bought a $10 seat at Comerica Park late last season. I was aware that didn't entitle me to sit wherever I wanted.)



If MLB came back and had a seating plan like the one above, I'd go to some games.

Frayed Knot Jun 10 2020 09:11 AM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

Frayed Knot wrote: =Ceetar post_id=38504 time=1591792976 user_id=102]There are probably minimal risks overall, but [there] are risks. As there are anytime one walks out their front door. not even close to the point.

Sure it is. There are risks in going to the supermarket, going to the park, onto a bus or subway, or into any other situation that either is open now or is in the process of doing so in the near future.

Indeed the whole debate about how and how quickly to 'return to normal' via a phased reopening or all at once is a balancing act between freedom and economics vs risk. Going, or not going, to

the ballpark and the rules that would govern how they go about it, either rules mandated by local governments or self-imposed, is going to be just another piece of that puzzle. So, yeah, there are

going to be risks at a ballgame just as there are now and will be as stores and malls and movie theaters open back up. The question is when and how you go about it.



If the season were to start today they'd almost certainly have to do so in empty parks. But At Best the very first games are going to be five weeks away and then at least two more months of

games after that and the answer can't be that no one is allowed in ever until there is Zero chance of risk anymore than you'd shut down attendance at basketball games because they're played

in a closed facility indoors and it's flu season.

Ceetar Jun 10 2020 09:37 AM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

i mean, baseball _probably_ shouldn't open up, from a safety standpoint, and just to add fans to that (nothing will change from now until then, virus wise) is only going to be riskier. Even countries that have handled this not-horribly aren't seemingly sure about fans. KBO still playing with mannequins right? Going to a baseball game is a risk totally separate from the grocery store, running errands, moving around. We've botched this terribly and it's hard to see a way in which we execute fans in stadiums even with just slightly elevated risk.

Fman99 Jun 10 2020 09:38 AM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

"You take a risk getting up in the morning, crossing the street, or sticking your face in a fan." -- Frank Drebin

Frayed Knot Jun 10 2020 09:50 AM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

=Ceetar post_id=38514 time=1591803434 user_id=102]Going to a baseball game is a risk totally separate from the grocery store, running errands, moving around.

Actually it's a very similar risk. In fact, I'd feel better being outdoors with those around me being planted in one place at a safe distance away rather than moving past me and around

me which is what happens in stores, in barbershops, and on the street on a daily basis.

If you want to argue that baseball shouldn't restart at all then the question of fans is pretty much a moot point.

And while I'm not saying that this needs to all happen tomorrow (and last I checked, there are no games scheduled for tomorrow anyway) at some point they'll transition to live fans again,

probably in stages. How that happens and the timing of that point being still TBD.

Ceetar Jun 10 2020 10:13 AM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

well, it's not the planted a safe distance away that's the issue, it's when everyone's camped around the bathroom, or crammed into the stairwell breathing at each other. That doesn't happen at the store. Transmission isn't really happening by breathing while walking by someone in a store. And I certainly don't need food at a game enough to make the (probably under-compensated and under-trained) workers to cram into one of those booth in close quarters cooking hot dogs for me. But that extends to whether I can expect 30 guys to cram* into a clubhouse for my entertainment either. Some of this could happen with better testing and tracing, but it doesn't seem like we're really going that route. I'm okay with risk here and there, but so much of it's happening so carelessly. tl:dr I think there's a reasonable risk level that would allow some fans at some games, I don't believe that the US/MLB will be able to minimize risk to a reasonable level.

ashie62 Jun 10 2020 04:11 PM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

Baseball should be so lucky to have to manage "fans in the stands"

MFS62 Jun 10 2020 04:38 PM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

Rob Manfried just announced that there WILL be baseball this year (as per WABC). They are down to two alternatives, one a 48 game season he can unilaterally impose and one with more games. The decision on which alternative will be in one or two days. Later

Ceetar Jun 10 2020 04:45 PM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

the season will not be extended in any way though, past the end of September, because the networks don't want to move playoff game dates.

Frayed Knot Jun 10 2020 08:17 PM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

And the league doesn't want to risk losing playoff games in case cooler autumn weather re-jump-starts Covid causing them to re-cancel things again. Because if the playoffs do get canceled then the teams lose not only their regular season gate money but then the TV playoff cash on top of that.

Ceetar Jun 10 2020 09:36 PM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

playoffs are currently canceled if they don't restart. Could just as easily be through the 'second wave' by the time mid-October/November rolls around as have it start then. Also cases are still kinda rising _right now_ so any sort of "gotta rush this season to make sure playoffs happen on the same timeline" is just random guesswork.

ashie62 Jun 11 2020 10:46 AM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

=MFS62 post_id=38539 time=1591828683 user_id=60] Rob Manfried just announced that there WILL be baseball this year (as per WABC). They are down to two alternatives, one a 48 game season he can unilaterally impose and one with more games. The decision on which alternative will be in one or two days. Later

This is my take also



No one looks good here

Ceetar Jun 11 2020 12:02 PM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

scarlett johannsen

MFS62 Jun 11 2020 12:13 PM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

=Ceetar post_id=38579 time=1591898535 user_id=102] scarlett johannsen

Drop the mic.

No more calls, please. we have a winner.



Later

ashie62 Jun 13 2020 03:39 AM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

New deadline tomorrow by MLB 76 Games at pro-rated pay. Of that number the owners are at 80% which is 20% off the pro-rated numbers agreed to in March My solution. Take the 20% and defer it into an annuity or such. The each side gets back 5%. Take the remaining 10% and donate it to Covid Relief, Racial issues, farmers and so on. This is doable

Ceetar Jun 13 2020 07:54 AM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

but, it's not doable, MLB literally offering the same money each time, just demanding various amounts of work for it, and not negotiating in good faith.

Edgy MD Jun 13 2020 08:06 AM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

It seems like an independent arbitrator trying to make both sides equally miserable is the only way there is going to be anything like a season.

ashie62 Jun 13 2020 11:38 AM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

Can a mediator do this in like a week If...MLB has no 2020 season the NFL will totally rule the sports industrial complex. They do not need fans in the stands Would it be so bad to say see you all in February 2021. As of now 1. The logistics are horrid, and should be worked out by now 2. No fans in stands 3. Acrimony amongst Players owners and fans 5. Unknown health risks and adinfinitum. Dang, the NBA, which largely wants to play is going to take two months to be up and running, despite what Neturd Kyrie Irving says

batmagadanleadoff Jun 13 2020 12:32 PM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

Is there a clause in MLB's CBA for an arbitrator to issue a binding ruling on what, if any, kind of season there's gonna be in 2020? I could be wrong, but I think that the parties are on their own here, and for a binding arbitrator to step in and sort things out, with actual authority, both sides would have to agree for that to happen.

Benjamin Grimm Jun 13 2020 12:36 PM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

I believe that's the case. I'm pretty sure there will be a season, unless the players can successfully challenge Manfred's unilateral implementation of a shorter season. If he does do that, I'd like to see him go for 70 games instead of 50. Yes, it would cost the owners more money, but it might head off some contention as they go into the next CBA. (I know what's important for the owners, though. It will be 50 games.)

Frayed Knot Jun 13 2020 02:09 PM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

=Ceetar post_id=38626 time=1592056467 user_id=102] MLB literally offering the same money each time, just demanding various amounts of work for it, and not negotiating in good faith.

In view of the season being played in front of empty stadiums the owners tried several different ways of approaching it: they proposed a plan w/a 50/50 revenue split; one featured a sliding scale where the highest

paid take the biggest hit off the pro-rated while the lowest get hit with little or nothing; and they've offered differing lengths of seasons with various formulas for figuring percentages off the pro-rated scale. There

were also small side issues such as an elimination of FA compensation signings this winter.

The union's response to the claim that the teams need either a shorter season or give-backs in the pay rate has been to propose nothing but longer seasons and to dismiss the idea that the issue of pay adjustment

due to empty stadiums, which they agreed back in March to discuss, is even up for discussion.



Now the players are free to reject any or all of the owners' proposals. But, if you ask me, they're the side more guilty of not negotiating in good faith here and I think they might wind up winning the battle but

losing the war. By sticking to their guns over the idea that they're not going to be the ones to agree to anything even resembling a salary cap, even for one partial season during a global pandemic, they're

likely to wind up with somewhere around 30% of their pay rather than something closer to 50% even if at a reduced rate.

Edgy MD Jun 13 2020 02:10 PM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

=batmagadanleadoff post_id=38638 time=1592073179 user_id=68] Is there a clause in MLB's CBA for an arbitrator to issue a binding ruling on what, if any, kind of season there's gonna be in 2020? I could be wrong, but I think that the parties are on their own here, and for a binding arbitrator to step in and sort things out, with actual authority, both sides would have to agree for that to happen.

I was speaking in terms of them coming to agreement at this point to just George Mitchell the whole thing.



I think both sides want to settle, but we're in uncharted territory, and both sides see their reputation on the line and don't want to be the one who gets screwed.

Benjamin Grimm Jun 13 2020 06:33 PM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

ESPN wrote: In a statement Saturday night, MLBPA executive director Tony Clark rejected MLB's latest proposal and said: "Further dialogue with the league would be futile. It's time to get back to work. Tell us when and where." Looks like we'll be having the short season. Better than nothing.

Ceetar Jun 13 2020 07:26 PM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

well, COVID still will have the final word. Unless they all decide to not care, which is certainly possible.

MFS62 Jun 14 2020 04:10 PM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

Play ball? https://www.yahoo.com/news/mlb-players-tell-owners-negotiations-000205942.html Later

Ceetar Jun 14 2020 04:15 PM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

until Covid shuts it down again, unless the player want to fire a safety grievance. Owners didn't negotiate so we're stuck with the 50ish game thing.

ashie62 Jun 14 2020 06:06 PM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

Thats about it. Game time. 48-72 games seems to be in the neighborhood about the web No expanded playoffs. No universal DH and.... We get a Lowrie and Cepedes siting soon. Almost time for an IGT

Ceetar Jun 14 2020 09:50 PM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

except, of course, Covid.

metsmarathon Jun 15 2020 08:48 AM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

oh, shit. are we in a pandemic? i totally forget. what was the name of it again? i think it might have some unknown and as-yet unknowable impacts on future events and the plannings thereof. i just.. what was the name of it? is that still happening? do you think it might affect things? like, really? sigh. of course covid. should we just not even try to think about planning or doing anything until we've got a planet-wide satellite constellation that can detect each individual virus particle from 100 miles up and blast it immediately with a (eye-safe) high powered laser beam? pew-pew! no mercy! we've gotta move forward, or at least start thinking about moving forward. and adjusting as needed. or we spiral into nothingness. yeah, baseball is stupid and it's meaningless and there's too much money in it and it makes people make bad decisions. but people enjoy it and people like it, and ... whatever. covid. it all could change overnight. some fancy new treatment could come available, or a vaccine get developed, or we learn that applying the right patterned combination of blue and orange pigment nanoparticles onto a fabric mesh effectively blocks the transmission of coronavirus particles to and from the wearer, or whatever. if we're not looking forward towards recovery and normalcy, we never get there, or we won't be ready. so, yeah, lets hope they can plan a baseball season. and if it can happen, cool. if it can't, because covid, then at least that will be the reason, and not lack of willingness to try. or stupid bad-faith negotiating but the owners. aaaaanyways... the mlbpa's "we'll play because they're telling us to" tells me all i need to know about how deep the trenches will be for the 2021 CBA. enjoy what little baseball we can get this year, fellas. i fear it may be all we get for a damned while.

Ceetar Jun 15 2020 08:54 AM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

well, we could think about planning or doing something about the pandemic, since we haven't.

Ceetar Jun 15 2020 08:56 AM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

i.e., there's no difference between July 15th or whatever date we're targeting and March 26th. Should've just opened as normal if this was what was going to happen.

metsmarathon Jun 15 2020 10:55 AM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

i don't hardly think that the mlbpa nor the owners are the people i want figuring out our response to the pandemic. or do you mean what they're gonna do about the pandemic as it pertains to opening up the game again? it's hard to tell what you mean sometimes. i mean, they are going to be doing different things. like limiting or eliminating attendance. cutting back on food service. drawing social distance lines and arrows on the ground. so on. so forth. and i'm pretty sure the owners are working to figure out the details of that even while they're trying to figure out just how much of the money they want to hide and keep for themselves, and looking in the mirror practicing all their poorhouse-complaints so they don't unintentionally allow their giggles to give away the lie.

Ceetar Jun 15 2020 11:49 AM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

well, no one has a response to the pandemic. we haven't responded. we did the bare minimum to try to keep the hospitals overrun. So honestly if like, MLB started releasing data-supported and fact-based health guidelines for America, it'd be a step up. Hell, I suggested this earlier, mostly tongue in cheek, but like if all these rich sports leagues, back in early March, realized what was happening and invested in doing those things the government didn't: buying and ramping up testing, and tracing, even if just in the cities they're located in, we'd be in better shape as a country. But no, and all these players and the ancillary workers (Trainers, clubhouse attendants, team chefs, etc) plus the media are all still just regular people existing in this pandemic out in the world. We've gotten very little in terms of the medical plan from these 'negotiations'. Some say they're all agreed as far as that goes, others say it's barely thought out. There was something about a waiver of liability. Testing was mentioned, but I don't think it was ever mentioned as daily. It doesn't even seem like we have, as a nation or even as a world? a reliable daily test? There was some talk about broadcasters being told they'd probably only work home games. So sure, a few people don't travel. I read a tweet that a 40 man player and a pitching coach had COVID already. Dunno what happened with that. Are these 25-30 players still going to be in a clubhouse together for hours? are they going to fly from city to city together? or on a bus? or are they all expected to have 30 cars and drive themselves? The game itself seems less problematic, as long as players _do_ in fact spread out in the stands. The contact thing isn't as serious as it was originally thought, but it's still not perfectly fine. The ball travels around a lot. What happens when the COVID right fielder touches his face, fields a double, throws to the cutoff man, who throws home to the catcher, who then throws to try to get the runner at third, and then the cutoff man wipes sweat from his eyes with the hand that just touched the ball? Or is every player going to take a sanitizer break between plays? These all seemed too risky even when they were making noises about some kind of Arizona quarantine bubble, now that stay at home orders have been lifted and they can just as easily contract it elsewhere and infect everyone. And the owner's just don't care about baseball, so they have no interest in trying to get creative. There's no suggestion for like, a combination of 7 game series with-in a pool or division so that you can chunk out and isolate groups of people for easier quarantine. That could've been fun. Like, Mets, Phillies, Nationals, Orioles or something. Play each other in a 7 game series. Probably 4 home, 3 away deal, to minimize travel. And then switch up the pools a few times, and figure out a playoff berth off that. Plus factor in a 'off pool' so there's a 2-3 week stretch to use in case you need to quarantine a pool, without actually losing games. You test everyone at the end of each section, and wait a few days for the next pool.

metsmarathon Jun 15 2020 01:10 PM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

i feel like the exact details of the implementation, while interesting to ponder and maybe i guess argue about, of any player-safety provisions, are nothing i terribly need to concern myself with, unless they ultimately prove ineffective at preventing any spread among players that would end the season. but really, none of that has any impact on my life, so i tend to ignore it. i mean, its interesting, and if they screw it up, sure, it might have an impact. but really, it's like wondering what any one random office or industry is planning to do. mostly, i'm going to trust them to do their best to figure it out. because it is in their interest to do so. i don't really know that the owners have it in them to be truly creative. they ted to be incredibly risk-averse in that regard. well, i say that, and then there's all those stupid monkeying around with various rules that the commissioner's office floats. which, i guess if i really think about it, are really just fiddling around the margins of the sport, compared to some of the changes i think that i see in other sports. so i think expecting something truly out-of-the-box out of them is asking a leopard to change its spots. the first part, though. i agree, that would have been good. but then, that falls into the trap of any ideas about the benefits of privatization - any private entity must be concerned first and foremost with it's own financial needs. generally those thoughts tend to run short-term, occasionally they run long-term. but never (i guess rarely) do they act for the public, or greater good. unless they can draw a direct line to their own bottom line. which, well, is the whole point of a (properly functioning and well-run) government, isn't it?

Johnny Lunchbucket Jun 15 2020 01:37 PM Re: Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

I also don't really care about how they do it, or really, even if they do it, this year.