Master Index of Archived Threads


The 24-Hour Day (split from What's Your Thing?)

batmagadanleadoff May 07 2020 05:57 PM What's Your Thing? split

I hate it when people say 12 o'clock. Either we go to military time, or it's noon or midnight. No 12 o'clock shit.

Frayed Knot May 07 2020 06:26 PM Re: What's Your Thing?

=batmagadanleadoff post_id=36533 time=1588895870 user_id=68] I hate it when people say 12 o'clock. Either we go to military time, or it's noon or midnight. No 12 o'clock shit.

I'm all for military time.

The whole idea behind counting 12 hours twice was based on treating day and night as if they were two separate 'days' which of course aren't. And even if you want to think of them that way, the times when it's

dark and the times when it's light not only vary widely depending on season and location but they also don't come close to lining up with the 12-to-12 sections of the day in any of them.

00:00 - 23:59 Just do it and never get your AMs and PMs mixed up again!



I keep my digital watch on 24H time. Some think I do so just to confuse and/or annoy people but I really just prefer it that way and I consider the fact that it occasionally does confuse and annoy to be just a side

bonus. There was a time when clocks and appliances increasingly gave you a 12/24 choice for their displays but. alas, that option seems to be less common now than it was some years back for whatever reason

so I feel like I'm on losing ground on this one ... like that's anyway new!

Edgy MD May 07 2020 07:31 PM Re: What's Your Thing?

I hate it when people say 12 o'clock. Either we go to military time, or it's noon or midnight. No 12 o'clock shit. I say "midnight hour" and I'm stepping on Wilson Pickett's line. Asides, context provided all the clarity I needed. I know what I'm doing.

batmagadanleadoff May 07 2020 07:36 PM Re: What's Your Thing?

Edgy MD wrote: I hate it when people say 12 o'clock. Either we go to military time, or it's noon or midnight. No 12 o'clock shit. I say "midnight hour" and I'm stepping on Wilson Pickett's line. Asides, context provided all the clarity I needed. I know what I'm doing. But that context is very, very hazy now, in this, the time of the coronavirus, where people are commonly losing track of what day it is and waking up and going to sleep when they're awake and tired, respectively, instead of according to what the clock says,

Edgy MD May 07 2020 07:48 PM Re: What's Your Thing?

I hear you. But I give the reader credit. A dash of ambiguity mixed in with a pint of clarity in a low-stakes declarative sentence? I felt good about it. It keeps the reader thinking and engaged. You take their hand and walk them through the sentence like they have head trauma, some of your better readers feel patronized or condescended to and walk off. Anyhow, I'm happy to stick with military time. It'll put all the years of M*A*S*H* reruns to good use.

Ceetar May 07 2020 09:30 PM Re: What's Your Thing?

24 hour clock is just saner, like the metric system, so I'm sure the US will never get there. In fact, I might go so far as to say adopting either nationally and officially would be a good benchmark for the country moving in the right direction.

LWFS May 07 2020 09:55 PM Re: What's Your Thing?

Once you get used to military time, it's tough to go back.

MFS62 May 08 2020 06:09 AM Re: What's Your Thing?

=LWFS post_id=36557 time=1588910127 user_id=84] Once you get used to military time, it's tough to go back.

While I think military time is necessary in certain situations, I had not problem getting un-used to it the moment I took off my uniform. I was extremely comfortable when I looked at the board at the airport to see when my fight coming home was scheduled to take off.

Later

Ceetar May 08 2020 06:56 AM Re: What's Your Thing?

computers don't really use am/pm. dates in computers are annoying af. switching to 24 hour time wouldn't solve most of them, but it'd help.

Frayed Knot May 08 2020 01:26 PM Re: What's Your Thing?

=Ceetar post_id=36555 time=1588908602 user_id=102] 24 hour clock is just saner, like the metric system, so I'm sure the US will never get there. In fact, I might go so far as to say adopting either nationally and officially would be a good benchmark for the country moving in the right direction.

Yeah but there doesn't even need to be any sort of official government policy - in fact I'd prefer it if there weren't. Once locals and businesses start using it people would quickly get used to it.

Put highway road signs in both units [ALBANY 50 MI / 80 KM] particularly if you're a state that borders on Canada or Mexico; the channel grid on your TV could go to 2400 time, so could

movie theaters ... and people who don't know it AND can't subtract 12 in order to translate back to the old way are pretty much too stupid to be out in public anyway.

Ceetar May 08 2020 01:47 PM Re: What's Your Thing?

Frayed Knot wrote: =Ceetar post_id=36555 time=1588908602 user_id=102] 24 hour clock is just saner, like the metric system, so I'm sure the US will never get there. In fact, I might go so far as to say adopting either nationally and officially would be a good benchmark for the country moving in the right direction. Yeah but there doesn't even need to be any sort of official government policy - in fact I'd prefer it if there weren't. Once locals and businesses start using it people would quickly get used to it. Put highway road signs in both units [ALBANY 50 MI / 80 KM] particularly if you're a state that borders on Canada or Mexico; the channel grid on your TV could go to 2400 time, so could movie theaters ... and people who don't know it AND can't subtract 12 in order to translate back to the old way are pretty much too stupid to be out in public anyway.

We can't even fund our bridges that are falling apart, we spend all our money on replacing all the signs with 'TRIBORO' on them to 'RFK' and we haven't even finished that yet. Now you want them to put in KM?



I think all schools should mandate it as part of the education budget. Both 24 hour time and metric. Teach it as the standard and then teach how to translate it back.

Frayed Knot May 08 2020 01:59 PM Re: The 24-Hour Day (split from What's Your Thing?)

You don't have to change all signs at once. But as replacements are needed just have the new ones include both measures. Had states and/or locals started doing that back in the '70s when 'Think Metric' first became an idea then acceptance and knowledge of it would have been essentially universal for years now. My point being that this doesn't need to be a top-down solution. Do it yourself and it will become the standard over time. Wait around for the green light from bureaucrats in DC and we'll forever be in 'Maybe Someday' mode.

metsmarathon May 08 2020 02:21 PM Re: The 24-Hour Day (split from What's Your Thing?)

i've long been a fan of 24-hour clocking. once we fix that maybe we can do away with daylight savings time. or switch to it permanently instead. or scrap time zones altogether.

Ceetar May 08 2020 02:42 PM Re: The 24-Hour Day (split from What's Your Thing?)

I never said bureacrats. Just in general. society. Stop making half gallons of milk and start making 2 liters of milk. That one especially, as we're all used to liters.

Benjamin Grimm May 08 2020 02:43 PM Re: The 24-Hour Day (split from What's Your Thing?)

We should be on daylight time year round. Scrapping time zones would be weird. In some places noon would be in the middle of the night. So yes, you would know that it was 10 a.m. in Bangkok, but if you were trying to contact someone, you'd still have to adjust, because you'd have to remember that in Bangkok people start their work day at 9 p.m. (Just making up numbers here.)

Frayed Knot May 08 2020 03:14 PM Re: The 24-Hour Day (split from What's Your Thing?) Edited 1 time(s), most recently on May 08 2020 03:18 PM

Yeah, I never got the scrapping time zones argument. Mike Greenberg, of ESPN's 'Mike & Mike' show used to put this idea forth all the time. But he was looking at it strictly from the POV of an easterner who had to get up early in the morning (probably around 4 AM) yet depended knowing & seeing the results of prime time sports events. His idea was that if the entire country were on the same time zone then they wouldn't have to start games 'late' for the benefit of west- coasters. But what he failed to consider was that just because you call it 8 PM on both coasts and in every point in between didn't mean that 8 PM would mean the same thing to everyone. People aren't going to go to bed at the same time, parents aren't going to send their kids to school in the dark, and businesses aren't going to adjust their hours simply because someone tells them to do so. IF such an experiment were to happen, presumably you'd agree on a time in the middle, so what is now 9 PM (2100) EST and [CROSSOUT]6 PM[/CROSSOUT] 1800 PST would become 7:30 / 1930 across the nation. So would you east coast folks be happy with 3 AM sunrises in June? How about those 2 PM sunsets in December, Seattle? The point being that even though it would be the same time everywhere, that time wouldn't mean the same thing as local people would adjust their lives to the rhythms of the day. That would all make trying to figure out when the other spots in the country would be: getting to work; having lunch; driving home; going to bed; arriving at school a lot more complicated then simply adding or subtracting 1, 2, or 3 China, roughly the same size and shape of our country, uses one time zone, but they also have a government wants to mold the people to their views and makes a habit of saying 'Fuck You' to any dissent.

MFS62 May 08 2020 03:18 PM Re: The 24-Hour Day (split from What's Your Thing?)

There was an episode in the show Space 1999 in which the young American boy turns to his parents and says (I paraphrase) "We're only 200,000 meters from Earth". And that was when I realized that the show wasn't science fiction, it was pure fantasy. My Canadian friend and I used to get into arguments about the Metric system, so I said, "You measure your gas in Liters, your temperature in Celsius and your home runs in meters. The box score for last night's Blue Jays game said the attendance was 14,684. How many people is that in American numbers?" OTOH, the US Military changed from .30(inch) caliber to 7.62mm ammunition so that our forces could share it with our allies. That was a necessity and an effective solution to an ever increasing problem. But some measurements are best left unchanged. Later

metsmarathon May 08 2020 04:09 PM Re: The 24-Hour Day (split from What's Your Thing?)

=MFS62 post_id=36599 time=1588972691 user_id=60]OTOH, the US Military changed from .30(inch) caliber to 7.62mm ammunition so that our forces could share it with our allies.

this leads to the interesting situation, when developing advanced munitions, where the outside diameter of the round is in milimeters, but every dimension that the round is built to is in english units (because american machinists) but your engineers and scientists are all using metric to make the fancy math work.



as far as time zones, i just hate having to figure out if the meeting time someone set is in their time zone, or if my outlook calendar has already updated it. and if we all used UTC, we'd be able to work through it more readily.



also, most of the people in most time zones do not enjoy noon being directly overhead. we're just close enough to the middle of our time zone that it feels like it.

Ceetar May 08 2020 04:55 PM Re: The 24-Hour Day (split from What's Your Thing?)

the cannon build in feet but cannonballs built in radians thing is always causing problems. daylight savings time is stupid, but I don't think we can get rid of time zones. but you might be able to lengthen them a bit. Especially if we are (and we are) moving to a world that's less and less dark. Also if we tossed the arbitrary 8hr/40hr workweek thing for a more family friendly flexible system, we could still have everyone working "during the day" if you wanted. though I think even if NY sunrises were 10am in the winter you'd still want to go to work before that. I don't know why anyone thinks spending literally all the winter daylight time in an office is sane.

Frayed Knot May 08 2020 05:54 PM Re: The 24-Hour Day (split from What's Your Thing?)

Let's try a thought experiment on this topic. For those of us at or near 40 degrees N Latitude [more or less NYC, Chicago, Denver, NoCal] our sunlight is on a 15/9 scale: we get right about 15 hours of daylight at the summer solstice vs just 9 hours of darkness, and just the opposite in late December when things flip to a 9 light/15 dark ratio. Those towards the southern tier of this country are more in the 14/10 - 10/14 range while in the extreme north [Portland, ME; Minneapolis, Seattle] things inch closer to 16/8. Everything in between late June & late December is of course just a step by step journey from the one extreme to the other (at a slightly quicker clip up north, slower down south) with more or less equality of day/night conditions occurring in March & September. As noted my mm above, the precise times of sunrise & sunsets can vary widely within a time zone, but the length of time between those events remains virtually identical for all those on the same latitude. I shouldn't need to do this although it is important to note that NONE OF THOSE ABOVE CONDITIONS ARE DEBATABLE, meaning that your answer can't contain a "solution" that alters those facts. So given those ... limitations if you will: What is your idea of the ideal sunrise/sunset times at the two extremes of the year? iow, if YOU personally could choose the times, what times would they be? Let's assume the 15/9 conditions just to keep our answers consistent (sorry ABNSeo, Duan and others not on or near the 40th parallel) and keep in mind while answering that your summer & winter times have to be three hours from each other if you're rejecting DST (or even if you want year-round DST which is essentially the same thing as none at all). WITH a partial year DST, the summer SR times need to be two hours earlier than the winter figures and the SS times four hours later. Just for a frame of reference: NYC finds itself with a (approx) 0730 sunrise / 1630 (4:30 PM) sunset on Dec 21 and 0530 / 2030 (8:30 PM) in June. Without DST those June times would be 0430 / 1930 So let us know what you'd Prefer to see, and while doing so keep in mind what your choice would mean for those both at the opposite end of the time zone from you and those at the other end of the country from you if you are a one TZ guy or a reduced # of TZ advocate.

Fman99 May 08 2020 08:33 PM Re: The 24-Hour Day (split from What's Your Thing?)

I'm glad this all started because I like gals with big clockers.

Frayed Knot May 10 2020 10:16 AM Re: The 24-Hour Day (split from What's Your Thing?)

I suppose one downside to a switch to 24-hour time would be making hand-and-dial clocks obsolete as any 24-hour replacement would look so radically different -- hours appearing at different points on the dial compared to what we're used to plus having only 15 degrees of separation between each leading to visual ambiguity. But in an essay in today's NYT an author states that her ten years younger sister (and presumably others in her age group as well - although no specific age is given for either) never learned and so has no idea how to tell time from an analog clock so it's not real clear that we'd be saving something that's only going to fall into disuse anyway. And, again, it's not like I'm advocating a top-down mandate for the replacement of one system for the other; both can easily co-exist. I just wish more appliances offered both options (none of my cable box, microwave, or bedroom clock have a 24h option) and that more public displays -- bank clocks, TV grids, movie times, Hell ... baseball schedules -- chose to go the 24h route.

Benjamin Grimm May 10 2020 10:28 AM Re: The 24-Hour Day (split from What's Your Thing?)

My daughter will be 19 next month and I suspect she doesn't know how to read an analog clock.

Ceetar May 11 2020 06:46 AM Re: The 24-Hour Day (split from What's Your Thing?)

sunrise at noon, sunset at 21:00 in the winter you're awake and home for a large chunk of sun time, which is great for health/vitamin D/depression. it also extends the time you're willing to go outside and/or cook outside into the fall later, because the warmer part of the day will be then. It's light just as kids are going outside for recess. people gripe about wanting sunlight for the commute but half of traffic (the east-bound side) is worse due to driving directly at the sun/glare. Sunrise at 9, sunset at midnight in the summer. if we're on the same life cycle, early risers might suffer here, but go back to bed, freaks. This also pushes the hottest part of the day to closer to dinner time, which means people are more apt to be out of the sun, or at least re-applying sunscreen. It'd screw up fourth of july celebrations, though the general summer BBQ would benefit from later hours, plus since we don't have fully automated car travel yet, less driving home from gatherings in the dark, which is a benefit to a lot of people. (except maybe black people since cops are less able to be racist at drivers in the dark)

41Forever May 11 2020 09:06 AM Re: The 24-Hour Day (split from What's Your Thing?) Edited 2 time(s), most recently on Jun 14 2020 07:47 AM

I don't have a problem with the two 12-hour cycles.

Ceetar May 11 2020 09:28 AM Re: The 24-Hour Day (split from What's Your Thing?)

=41Forever post_id=36696 time=1589209606 user_id=69] =Ceetar post_id=36689 time=1589201200 user_id=102] It'd screw up fourth of july celebrations, though the general summer BBQ would benefit from later hours, plus since we don't have fully automated car travel yet, less driving home from gatherings in the dark, which is a benefit to a lot of people. (except maybe black people since cops are less able to be racist at drivers in the dark)

You need to stop with this bullshit about cops being racist. If there's a problem with a particular cop, fix the problem. If there's a problem with a particular department, fix the problem. But these constant blanket statements about all police officers -- who put their lives on the line and keep our families safe -- are nonsense and offensive.




tell the cops to stop shooting black joggers (while LETTING ARMED WHITE PEOPLE STORM GOVERNMENT BUILDINGS), and i'll stop calling them racist.

41Forever May 11 2020 09:36 AM Re: The 24-Hour Day (split from What's Your Thing?) Edited 3 time(s), most recently on Jun 14 2020 07:48 AM

I've been in countries where they used a 14-hour clock and it took some getting used to.

Ceetar May 11 2020 09:59 AM Re: The 24-Hour Day (split from What's Your Thing?)

they keep me safe? or they invade my privacy and spy on my neighborhood via Ring apps? A guy merely asks why so many black people are getting killed by cops and is black balled from his job and ridiculed and cops whine about him speaking up and paint blue lines on the street. There's very real data, specifically related to percentage of black people pulled over, that shows that the percentages are higher during the day. There's very real data on racial violence and bias by cops. Black people aren't just universally paranoid and training kids how to interact with police to minimize their risk of death. If the system, as a whole, wasn't racist then all cops, all agencies should be standing up and demanding accountability, demanding tracking and gun control and studies into this. The citizens are saying they feel unsafe from cops and instead of "oh crap, these are the people we're supposed to be keeping safe!" they're saying 'fuck you', arresting them, and shooting them. fix it, then get back to me about the handful of good cops leading birthday parades.

batmagadanleadoff May 11 2020 10:16 AM Re: The 24-Hour Day (split from What's Your Thing?) Edited 6 time(s), most recently on Jun 14 2020 06:21 AM

Oh please. The next time one cop calls out another cop for police brutality will be the first time. Especially if the incident in question wasn't recorded. Just wait and see what happens when cops have to choose between being good cops and the thin blue line. Then, they're all bad.

Edgy MD May 11 2020 10:23 AM Re: The 24-Hour Day (split from What's Your Thing?)

Man, I hate when I have to split from a split.

kcmets May 11 2020 01:43 PM Re: The 24-Hour Day (split from What's Your Thing?)

Maybe just start a 'racism in America' thread and posters with a 'white people suck' agenda can post there and random posts in non-racial threads can just be dumped there too?

batmagadanleadoff May 11 2020 01:51 PM Re: The 24-Hour Day (split from What's Your Thing?)

Cops'll back each other up even if the poor victim who got tasered and choke-held for no good reason was a white dude. Or if the rogue cop was black. My last two posts were about cops, not race.

kcmets May 11 2020 01:59 PM Re: The 24-Hour Day (split from What's Your Thing?)

I know, and I largely agree with you.

batmagadanleadoff May 11 2020 02:05 PM Re: The 24-Hour Day (split from What's Your Thing?)

=kcmets post_id=36710 time=1589227142 user_id=53] I largely agree with you.

Well, yes, but how could anyone not agree? The documented evidence is overwhelming and insurmountable. The law of averages says there has to, or had to, be cases of police brutality. Odds and numbers and all that. But to hear the cops tell it, there's never been a case of police brutality in the entire history of America even though they'd be in the best position to witness it if it ever happened. Which it did.

kcmets May 11 2020 02:11 PM Re: The 24-Hour Day (split from What's Your Thing?)

My post was addressing where to move racial discussion from the 12/24 discussion.

metsmarathon May 11 2020 02:59 PM Re: The 24-Hour Day (split from What's Your Thing?)

thanks to electrification, we need no longer tie our primary working (read: in-office) times to coincide with peak daylight hours. instead, i would propose that we should consider maximizing our local after-work or after-school daylight, to maximize our ability to spend times effectively outdoors without electrification. in the fall, my kid's 5:30 soccer practices needed to be held under the lights towards the end of the season. and that's well before the winter solstice comes around. i would suggest that for most people, we would prefer to have daylight hours remaining after work and school, rather than having more time to be awake before work and school. we would also prefer to minimize the time in the summer during which we are collectively asleep, wasting our newfound daylight. maybe that's just what we're all used to, though. i would suggest that if you graphed cumulative local sunset against cumulative local bedtime, you'd probably find a happy point where, for instance, the sun has set before most people are in bed, for most of the year, which maximizes everyone's happiness. having not done that math, i would suggest that if the sun set at midnight in the summer, most people would see that as a waste, provided their work/life schedules remain unchanged. if in the summer, the sun set at 2130, that would probably not upset too many people. i feel the latest you could reasonably push that before significantly more people are asleep before sunset than awake is 2230. i have no data to support this assertion, of course. this pushes sunrise back to 0730 in the summer, but 1030 in the winter, with a 1930 winter sunset.

Frayed Knot May 11 2020 03:59 PM Re: The 24-Hour Day (split from What's Your Thing?)

=metsmarathon post_id=36718 time=1589230764 user_id=83] thanks to electrification, we need no longer tie our primary working (read: in-office) times to coincide with peak daylight hours.

Unless you're in farming, construction, or various other outdoor jobs.

Ceetar May 11 2020 04:27 PM Re: The 24-Hour Day (split from What's Your Thing?)

Frayed Knot wrote: =metsmarathon post_id=36718 time=1589230764 user_id=83] thanks to electrification, we need no longer tie our primary working (read: in-office) times to coincide with peak daylight hours. Unless you're in farming, construction, or various other outdoor jobs.

sure, but is it such an inconvenience for the farmers to get up at 8 instead of 5?

metsmarathon May 11 2020 08:59 PM Re: The 24-Hour Day (split from What's Your Thing?)

this is surely true. of course, there's no reason the people working in those professions must start at the same time as my powerpoint slinging oslaught begins. i suppose the thesis of my argument against a time zone is that, in today's age, it truly doesn't matter that, at 12 noon, the sun is directly, or nearly directly overhead. and we don't need to know that our workday, and everyone else's workday starts at 9 am. because our workdays don't start at 9am anymore. at least not for many/most of us. if nearly everybody in my region, in my profession, is starting work sometime between 6am and 10am, and finishing work sometime between 2pm and 6pm, and everybody 3 time zones away on the west coast is starting sometime between 6am and 10am their time, and finishing work between 2pm and 6pm their time, then it really doesnt matter where the sun is in the sky for any of us, so long as we all know that, relative to some common, arbitrary fixed meridian, the sun is in a given spot. if we are all on the same time zone, we need not all work at the same time. none of that needs to change. farmers can still rise and sleep with sol. construction workers can rise and sleep with sal. we used to need to know what time noon was so that we could know what time everybody else around us was using. then we needed to all get on mostly the same time zones because, well, if a train left chicago at 10am, and it travels at 50 miles per hour, and a train left new york at 2 pm heading back to chicago traveling at 45 miles per hour, it's going to make a tragic bit of difference if we don't both agree on what time each of our stations is using. but nowadays, we really don't need a local noon. there is nothing it actually does for you. all of our clocks that can be synchronized to anything are all synchronized to UTC. they are then offset to account for the time zone nonsense. but they all track the same time. they all share the same noon. I needn't know if you start your day at 8 am PST, if i can remember that you start at 1500 UTC. and if we agree to hold a meeting at 4pm, well, it'd be nice to know if we're talking 2000 UTC or 2300. i've got places to go after work, you see. I guess i just have to wait for the lizardmen illuminati to put the finishing touches on their one-world-government before they push this through, though. there's no way normal, rational people would ever agree to it, on account of it being so dissimilar to what they're used to. though... we do all (almost all of us) wear digital watches...

Fman99 May 12 2020 05:12 AM Re: The 24-Hour Day (split from What's Your Thing?)

These lizardmen are taking FOREVER though.

Ceetar May 12 2020 07:51 AM Re: The 24-Hour Day (split from What's Your Thing?)

they're currently battling the Chaos Dwarves for sovereignty.

batmagadanleadoff Jun 14 2020 06:25 AM Re: The 24-Hour Day (split from What's Your Thing?)

It'd screw up fourth of july celebrations, though the general summer BBQ would benefit from later hours, plus since we don't have fully automated car travel yet, less driving home from gatherings in the dark, which is a benefit to a lot of people. (except maybe black people since cops are less able to be racist at drivers in the dark) You need to stop with this bullshit about cops being racist. If there's a problem with a particular cop, fix the problem. If there's a problem with a particular department, fix the problem. But these constant blanket statements about all police officers -- who put their lives on the line and keep our families safe -- are nonsense and offensive. tell the cops to stop shooting black joggers (while LETTING ARMED WHITE PEOPLE STORM GOVERNMENT BUILDINGS), and i'll stop calling them racist. That's crap. You're talking about isolated incidents -- (Problems? Fix the problem.) -- while assigning characteristics to an entire group, a group that keeps your unappreciative butt safe despite you calling them racists. [Posted on May 11, 2020 -- two weeks before cops murdered George Floyd] Oh please. The next time one cop calls out another cop for police brutality will be the first time. Especially if the incident in question wasn't recorded. Just wait and see what happens when cops have to choose between being good cops and the thin blue line. Then, they're all bad. Pretty prescient, huh? Posting this two weeks before George Floyd's murder? Unfortunately, no -- the post wasn't prescient at all as cops brutalize and kill innocent civilians all too regularly. Isolated incident? Oh, my!! He's got all of the tired and vile excuses in there in his not surprising defense of white racism but the line about "bad apples". At least he didn't post a picture of failed Senate candidate for the scumbag GOP and all-around black dude from Michigan, John James, as some sort of nutjob proof that cops aren't racist.

MFS62 Jun 14 2020 06:41 AM Re: The 24-Hour Day (split from What's Your Thing?)

=Ceetar post_id=36723 time=1589236065 user_id=102] sure, but is it such an inconvenience for the farmers to get up at 8 instead of 5?

No, but it would be inconvenient, if not painful, to the cows, to wait that long to milk them because their udders would be swollen.

Later

metsmarathon Mar 16 2022 01:58 PM Re: The 24-Hour Day (split from What's Your Thing?)

dragging this back up again. because the senate just approved a bill to make it daylight savings time all the time. which is, i think, incredibly stupid. we can solve the overwhelming problem of daylight savings time by adjusting behavior, not by making the time when the sun is directly overhead one hour later. if you like having more daylight after your workday is done, go to work earlier. our work days are arbitrarily set. arbitrarily set them earlier, or seasonally, gradually adjust them. humans used to do this. we still kinda do, even with electrification. there should be no reason why, unless your schedule NEEDS to align with a specific time, you cannot work an hour (or more) earlier at the summer solstice than at the winter solstice, and half as much at the equinoxes. industrialization duped humans into setting arbitrarily fixed work times, around which life itself rearranged. in response to that stupidty, we invented daylight savings time, which introduced massive disruption to the system, which we have not properly corrected, and which gives us this awful semi-annual nationwide jet lag. this ridiculous solution solves that problem, but does so in the worst way. by making time meaningless. i think we'll all realize how stupid it is when we're waking up, miserable and depressed, in the middle of the damned winter, waiting until our mornings are half the fuck over already before the sun finally peeks its head over the horizon, while our kids are waiting for their schoolbuses in the dark dark. hopefully the house of representatives actually thinks about what this does to the winter months. because while it truly is glorious to have the nights getting so much longer right now, winter is gonna suuuuuuuuuck when it's still getting dark when i'm getting out of work, but it was dark dark dark all morning too.

kcmets Mar 16 2022 02:11 PM Re: The 24-Hour Day (split from What's Your Thing?)

I propose that on Sunday 3/20 at 2:00 AM we all turn the clocks back one- half hour and then be done with it all. Forever.

Willets Point Mar 16 2022 03:08 PM Re: The 24-Hour Day (split from What's Your Thing?)

I'm in favor of ending semi-annual time changes. If the so-called "Sunshine Protection Act" achieves that then I'm on board. Ideally we'd just go with sun time and adjust work hours and behaviours as mm suggests but I don't see that happening. The dangers of time changes every March and November are real - from increased heart failures to increased car crashes - so I'm happy to be done with that nonsense.

Frayed Knot Mar 16 2022 03:12 PM Re: The 24-Hour Day (split from What's Your Thing?) Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Mar 17 2022 07:09 AM

I was shocked at the vote and even more shocked at its unanimity (Really, THIS is is the issue that gets bipartisan support?!?) I don't have a problem with bi-annual clock changing; adjusting them seems easier to me than mm's idea of constantly adjusting work/sleep hours. And spare me the stories of how tough it is get in the swing of the changed time -- a story I read the other day about a lady claiming that this throws off her kids' sleep schedules FOR MONTHS!! and that there isn't enough bourbon in the world to get her through this past week on account of the start of DST. It's ONE hour folks, not seven! My sleep schedule varies by at least an hour on a day to day basis depending on the length of the previous night's NYM game. It's not a hardship so stop acting as if you qualify for hazard pay. That said, I disagree with year-round DST and the Senators clearly aren't taking everything into account. They were bleating on about "extra" daylight as if they had miraculously legislated that the sun stay up in the sky longer. No, dip-shits it's not extra daylight it's merely relocated daylight, often to the detriment of early risers in the winter and those towards the western edges of each time zone. Do they really think the sun is in the same 'place' in the sky over Cape Cod and central Indiana just because those two locales share a time zone? Or over the Florida panhandle and west Texas? And the unanimity of it means that those Senators in states that don't use DST at all [ARZ, HAW, parts of other states] voted to go year-round on it meaning they're voting against the will of their supposed constituents. Fuck those idiots in my state ... they don't know what they want until I tell them.

Willets Point Mar 16 2022 03:16 PM Re: The 24-Hour Day (split from What's Your Thing?)

I've long been in favor of moving the New England states into the Atlantic time zone. This achieves basically the same thing as far as New England is concerned but is likely to be more problematic for other parts of the country.

Double Switch Mar 16 2022 03:31 PM Re: The 24-Hour Day (split from What's Your Thing?)

Agreeing with many of metsmarathon's points, my preference is to return forever to standard time. I live in a more northern state (area). The so-called extra hour of daylight is appreciated for only about 3 months out of 12. However, if it stops the madness one way or the other, I am in favor of action. Just do it.

Marshmallowmilkshake Mar 17 2022 06:01 AM Re: The 24-Hour Day (split from What's Your Thing?) Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Mar 17 2022 06:59 AM

I don't have a problem with changing the clocks twice a year. We live on the extreme western edge of our time zone, so in late June, early July it doesn't really get dark until close to 10 p.m. That has its pluses and minuses, but mostly pluses. The Monday morning in the spring is a little tough. But a little caffeine gets me through.

Frayed Knot Mar 17 2022 06:51 AM Re: The 24-Hour Day (split from What's Your Thing?)

btw, we tried year-round DST back in the '70s, but then went back after less than two years.

Lefty Specialist Mar 17 2022 08:04 AM Re: The 24-Hour Day (split from What's Your Thing?)

My wife is ecstatic. She hates the early darkness in the winter. Me, I can go either way, but anything that makes her this happy is a plus in my book.

Edgy MD Mar 17 2022 09:38 AM Re: The 24-Hour Day (split from What's Your Thing?)

I'm not saying the happy-wife argument isn't a compelling one, but when the Senate makes a unanimous decision with little discussion on a subtle matter of scientific measurement that has social, public health, biological, economic, and agricultural implications, I'm not confident that they'll get it right. If the decision is a reversal of a previous decision, because life under the previous decision seemed annoying, because we hadn't lived under the alternative, so having to do anything seemed annoying, and we had nothing to compare it to, I'm totally not confident.

Frayed Knot Mar 17 2022 06:25 PM Re: The 24-Hour Day (split from What's Your Thing?)

Willets Point wrote: I've long been in favor of moving the New England states into the Atlantic time zone. This achieves basically the same thing as far as New England is concerned but is likely to be more problematic for other parts of the country. Not sure that the folks in SW Connecticut would be all that keen on your plan (living in one time zone while commuting to another) but it would relieve most of the rest of NE from some early-ass winter sunsets and those real early summer sunrises. I've experienced both in Eastern Maine where each come around, or even before, four.

batmagadanleadoff Mar 17 2022 07:27 PM Re: The 24-Hour Day (split from What's Your Thing?)

Frayed Knot wrote: Willets Point wrote: I've long been in favor of moving the New England states into the Atlantic time zone. This achieves basically the same thing as far as New England is concerned but is likely to be more problematic for other parts of the country. Not sure that the folks in SW Connecticut would be all that keen on your plan (living in one time zone while commuting to another) but it would relieve most of the rest of NE from some early-ass winter sunsets and those real early summer sunrises. I've experienced both in Eastern Maine where each come around, or even before, four. People all over the US would have this problem, not just those in SW Connecticut. Many states are located in two different time zones.

Frayed Knot Mar 17 2022 07:41 PM Re: The 24-Hour Day (split from What's Your Thing?)

I wasn't suggesting that those in SW Conn were unique (NW Indiana, where Gary is a satellite city of Chicago, is the only part of that state to be in CST rather than EST) only that Willet's idea of having NE switch to Atlantic time would likely not be so popular in that part of NE closest to NYC.

Willets Point Mar 17 2022 07:57 PM Re: The 24-Hour Day (split from What's Your Thing?)

Yeah, I didn't want to go into but an enclave for the Connecticut Panhandle would probably be necessary.

batmagadanleadoff Mar 17 2022 08:01 PM Re: The 24-Hour Day (split from What's Your Thing?)

Frayed Knot wrote: I wasn't suggesting that those in SW Conn were unique (NW Indiana, where Gary is a satellite city of Chicago, is the only part of that state to be in CST rather than EST) only that Willet's idea of having NE switch to Atlantic time would likely not be so popular in that part of NE closest to NYC. OK. But I'm only saying "so what?" A lot of similarly situated people don't like DST for the same reasons you cited. They've gotta put the dividing lines somewhere. And people living very close to those lines are likelier to complain.

Frayed Knot Mar 18 2022 03:45 AM Re: The 24-Hour Day (split from What's Your Thing?)

Except that we weren't talking about DST here we were talking about time zones and specifically to Willett's suggestion that NE would benefit by breaking off from EST to join AST So while some people are always going to live close to dividing lines, those boundaries are rarely drawn along straight geographic lines but instead bend around large population centers specifically to avoid the issue of large numbers of folks having to live and work in different TZ's. My point was that even if the six NE states were to choose to do that (although it seems like these decisions are all made on the fed level now) that it would probably end up being more like 5-1/2 states.