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Happy Bobby Bonilla Day!

nymr83 Jul 01 2020 06:51 AM

At least one player will be getting paid in full this season!

Frayed Knot Jul 01 2020 06:56 AM Re: Happy Bobby Bonilla Day!

Speaking of that era NYM teams, some of y'all here will remember this blast from the past. Who the Fuck is Brad34?

MFS62 Jul 01 2020 08:31 AM Re: Happy Bobby Bonilla Day!

Did we ever find out who those "five players" were? Later

kcmets Jul 01 2020 08:42 AM Re: Happy Bobby Bonilla Day!

Was Brad34 at the mofo picnic? lol

MFS62 Jul 01 2020 12:06 PM Re: Happy Bobby Bonilla Day!

According to The Atlantic (dang paywall) the Red Sox have been paying Bruce Sutter for 30 years. Bobby Bo ain't alone. Later

kcmets Jul 01 2020 12:23 PM Re: Happy Bobby Bonilla Day!

They're running a 40% sale for $2.99/month. Don't know how long that rate lasts will check it out when on a real computer.

Frayed Knot Jul 01 2020 12:41 PM Re: Happy Bobby Bonilla Day!

Deferred payments are nothing new in sports and certainly aren't unique to the Mets & Bonilla. This one just gets more pub than any other for a variety of reasons - it's the Mets who are the subject of a number of punchlines, sometimes deserved sometimes not - it's Bobby Bonilla whose latter half of his career also provided fodder for more than a few punch lines - the reasons behind this particular deferred agreement have ties to the Madoff scandal so that makes an easy target as well. The Wilpons obviously thought that their double-digit 'growth' off their Bernie investments were, like Sidra's tits, both real and spectacular so this looked like a wise deal to them at the time. Those chuckling at it each year at this time naturally all have the benefit of 20/20 hindsight - that there's little else going on in early July in the sports world means somebody's always got room to work it into their headlines - it gives the talking heads the opportunity to say 'see, we do too talk about baseball' while also provides them with an opening to do what they really want to do and that's knock baseball (you'd never see the brilliant NFL owners do something like this cuz they're smart enough to not guarantee contracts)

Ceetar Jul 01 2020 12:44 PM Re: Happy Bobby Bonilla Day!

Bonilla was intentionally walked 9 times for the 1994 Mets.

MFS62 Jul 01 2020 01:42 PM Re: Happy Bobby Bonilla Day!

=Ceetar post_id=39694 time=1593629097 user_id=102] Bonilla was intentionally walked 9 times for the 1994 Mets.

So, now we're paying him roughly $111,000 for each of those walks - per year.

Later

kcmets Jul 01 2020 02:35 PM Re: Happy Bobby Bonilla Day!

It's kinda funny that this four sided coin is still a story. Of course, there's so little else going on I haven't been keeping up, how many inflation whittled in- stallments are left before we can put this baby to sleep?

Ceetar Jul 01 2020 02:38 PM Re: Happy Bobby Bonilla Day!

anything can be a drum if you beat it hard enough.

Frayed Knot Jul 01 2020 02:55 PM Re: Happy Bobby Bonilla Day!

=kcmets post_id=39702 time=1593635703 user_id=53]how many inflation whittled installments are left before we can put this baby to sleep?

About 15

G-Fafif Jul 01 2020 03:02 PM Re: Happy Bobby Bonilla Day!

=MFS62 post_id=39697 time=1593632576 user_id=60] =Ceetar post_id=39694 time=1593629097 user_id=102] Bonilla was intentionally walked 9 times for the 1994 Mets.

So, now we're paying him roughly $111,000 for each of those walks - per year.

Later


That was his 1991 free agent contract, which was paid off by the Orioles when they traded for him.



He's being paid until 2035 for all he didn't do in 2000.

MFS62 Jul 01 2020 03:20 PM Re: Happy Bobby Bonilla Day!

=G-Fafif post_id=39712 time=1593637372 user_id=55] He's being paid until 2035 for all he didn't do in 2000.

Thanks for clearing that up. (If there was ever a place for that crying emoji, this is it)



Later

Edgy MD Jul 01 2020 07:30 PM Re: Happy Bobby Bonilla Day!

I like the Brad34 story review. It's funny how mismatched Steve Phillips and Bobby Valentine were. The former had such thin skin and the latter was such a showman that he couldn't help poking the bear. For a brief time, they were just the right matchup, and then it blew up.

G-Fafif Jul 01 2020 07:52 PM Re: Happy Bobby Bonilla Day!

On July 1, 1992, Bobby Bonilla homered and the Mets won. http://www.ultimatemets.com/gamedetail.php?gameno=4914&tabno=D On July 1, 1994, Bobby Bonilla homered and the Mets won. http://www.ultimatemets.com/gamedetail.php?gameno=5238&tabno=D So Happy Bobby Bonilla Day, indeed!!

batmagadanleadoff Jul 02 2020 11:45 AM Re: Happy Bobby Bonilla Day!

Bobby Bonilla Day gets the fivethirtyeight treatment - with a video! Here's something to consider -- the Mets deferred the money owed Bonilla after the 1999 season to hold onto the $5.9M at stake and re-invest it in the team. The Mets then signed one of MLB's best and most sought after pitchers, Mike Hampton, who led the Mets to the 2000 World Series. When Hampton left via free agency, the Mets used their compensation draft pick for Hampton's deparure to select David Wright. So how bad did the Mets really do here? The Bobby Bonilla Retirement Plan: Quit Baseball In 2001, Get Paid Until 2035 Bobby Bonilla hasn't played in a professional baseball game since 2001, yet on July 1 of this year, the New York Mets paid him $1.19 million. And they will every July 1 until 2035, as part of a deferred contract that the Mets negotiated with Bonilla after the 1999 season. Instead of paying him $5.9 million that year, the Mets would owe Bonilla almost $30 million over the course of the deferred contract. How'd that happen? Watch the video [linked below] to find out. https://fivethirtyeight.com/videos/the-bobby-bonilla-retirement-plan-quit-baseball-in-2001-get-paid-until-2035/

Frayed Knot Jul 02 2020 03:07 PM Re: Happy Bobby Bonilla Day!

Edgy MD wrote: It's funny how mismatched Steve Phillips and Bobby Valentine were. The former had such thin skin and the latter was such a showman that he couldn't help poking the bear. For a brief time, they were just the right matchup, and then it blew up. And how 'Bobby' is it to slide by on the technicality of claiming that he didn't say the things he was accused of saying in his speech? Oh yeah, I may have said a few of those things right AFTER the speech to some of the same people who were at the speech ... but during the speech? never said anything of the sort!

Ceetar Jul 02 2020 03:08 PM Re: Happy Bobby Bonilla Day!

The real interesting part of this is that Bobby Bonilla was never actually a Met.

Frayed Knot Jul 02 2020 03:34 PM Re: Happy Bobby Bonilla Day!

=batmagadanleadoff post_id=39757 time=1593711920 user_id=68] Bobby Bonilla Day gets the fivethirtyeight treatment - with a video! Here's something to consider -- the Mets deferred the money owed Bonilla after the 1999 season to hold onto the $5.9M at stake and re-invest it in the team. The Mets then signed one of MLB's best and most sought after pitchers, Mike Hampton, who led the Mets to the 2000 World Series. When Hampton left via free agency, the Mets used their compensation draft pick for Hampton's deparure to select David Wright. So how bad did the Mets really do here?

The Mets, of course, didn't sign Hampton, they traded for him, so any $$ savings weren't specifically tied to that. The better argument could be made that the Bonilla Bonanza was turned into pre-arb contracts

that winter for the likes of Armando Benitez & Rey Ordonez, possibly intended as messages to the incoming Hampton: 'Here we are locking up for the next couple of years just the kind of glove magician a ground

ball specialist needs as well as our intimidating closer to hold onto your potential 'W's ... perhaps it would be wise to remember such things when it comes to FA time a year from now'.



Of course if that was the gambit it certainly didn't work but that doesn't mean it wasn't part of the thought process at the time.

The Wright thing is true although the 'strategy' of securing a high 30s pick with the hope of winding up with a franchise player isn't one you'd want to count on too often.

kcmets Jul 02 2020 03:45 PM Re: Happy Bobby Bonilla Day!

=Ceetar post_id=39775 time=1593724136 user_id=102]The real interesting part of this is that Bobby Bonilla was never actually a Met.

By some metrics, by your local colleagues, he was a top-50 Met of all time.

batmagadanleadoff Jul 02 2020 04:01 PM Re: Happy Bobby Bonilla Day!

Frayed Knot wrote: =batmagadanleadoff post_id=39757 time=1593711920 user_id=68] Bobby Bonilla Day gets the fivethirtyeight treatment - with a video! Here's something to consider -- the Mets deferred the money owed Bonilla after the 1999 season to hold onto the $5.9M at stake and re-invest it in the team. The Mets then signedone of MLB's best and most sought after pitchers, Mike Hampton, who led the Mets to the 2000 World Series. When Hampton left via free agency, the Mets used their compensation draft pick for Hampton's deparure to select David Wright. So how bad did the Mets really do here? The Mets, of course, didn't sign Hampton, they traded for him, so any $$ savings weren't specifically tied to that.

OK. Not the best choice of word. So what? That point doesn't change anything. Because the Mets hadda pay Hampton, whether they traded for him or got him as a free agent. And Hampton's 2000 price tag was $5.75M, just about equal to the deferred $5.9M that Bonilla was due. Granted, the whole point's definitely speculative, unprovable and like a Rorschach, subjective. But I wouldn't hang my hat on this traded for/signed distinction.

nymr83 Jul 02 2020 04:13 PM Re: Happy Bobby Bonilla Day!

This was also pre-Madoff. Couldn't the Wilpon's have just added 5 million to the payroll with deferring anything?

batmagadanleadoff Jul 02 2020 04:26 PM Re: Happy Bobby Bonilla Day!

=nymr83 post_id=39780 time=1593728035 user_id=54] This was also pre-Madoff. Couldn't the Wilpon's have just added 5 million to the payroll with deferring anything?

It was the pre-Madoff scandal environment that made the whole Bonilla deferred contract possible. The Mets deferred Bonilla's contract and even gave Bonilla a better-than-market 8% interest rate because Madoff was guaranteeing the Mets 10-15% annual returns on their Madoff investments .

Edgy MD Jul 02 2020 04:32 PM Re: Happy Bobby Bonilla Day!

Yeah, Madoff didn't give the Mets wealth. He game them the illusion of having far more wealth down the road. So borrowing from the future to supplement the present seemed like a good play to them. And as noted, there's an argument that it sort of worked out for them in a sense anyway.

Ceetar Jul 02 2020 04:45 PM Re: Happy Bobby Bonilla Day!

it's not really an argument, it's just truth. "Bobby Bonilla Day" is a reflection (a poor one) on the media.

Frayed Knot Jul 02 2020 06:48 PM Re: Happy Bobby Bonilla Day!

btw, as if the reaction to 'BB Day' wasn't predictable enough, I saw a headline (but was able to keep from clicking on it) which stated that Bonilla was to be "one of the highest paid Mets this season", a statement which is absolutely true except for deGrom, Cano, Stroman, Familia, Ramos, Porcello, Lowrie, Syndergaard, Conforto, Bettances, Cespedes, Diaz, Wilson, Matz, Marasnick, Wacha, Nimmo, Lugo, and Gsellman

Benjamin Grimm Jul 02 2020 07:12 PM Re: Happy Bobby Bonilla Day!

Bobby Bonilla Day has always been stupid, but it's even worse this year because there's little else to talk about in the baseball world.

Edgy MD Jul 02 2020 09:13 PM Re: Happy Bobby Bonilla Day!

it's not really an argument, it's just truth. "Bobby Bonilla Day" is a reflection (a poor one) on the media. How come I can't even enjoy when Ceetar mostly agrees with me?

Ceetar Jul 02 2020 09:47 PM Re: Happy Bobby Bonilla Day!

I can take it darker if you like. what do you think the odds are that the Wilpons/media count Bonilla's contract as part of the "bleeding money!" cries about how much they're losing a year?

Centerfield Jul 03 2020 05:29 AM Re: Happy Bobby Bonilla Day!

Bobby Bonilla Day gets the fivethirtyeight treatment - with a video! Here's something to consider -- the Mets deferred the money owed Bonilla after the 1999 season to hold onto the $5.9M at stake and re-invest it in the team. The Mets then signed one of MLB's best and most sought after pitchers, Mike Hampton, who led the Mets to the 2000 World Series. When Hampton left via free agency, the Mets used their compensation draft pick for Hampton's deparure to select David Wright. So how bad did the Mets really do here? The Bobby Bonilla Retirement Plan: Quit Baseball In 2001, Get Paid Until 2035 Bobby Bonilla hasn't played in a professional baseball game since 2001, yet on July 1 of this year, the New York Mets paid him $1.19 million. And they will every July 1 until 2035, as part of a deferred contract that the Mets negotiated with Bonilla after the 1999 season. Instead of paying him $5.9 million that year, the Mets would owe Bonilla almost $30 million over the course of the deferred contract. How'd that happen? Watch the video [linked below] to find out. https://fivethirtyeight.com/videos/the-bobby-bonilla-retirement-plan-quit-baseball-in-2001-get-paid-until-2035/ This Hampton/Wright justification has been making its rounds the last few years. Unfortunately it can't be true. The deferred money was invested in the Madoff fund. Investing the money is the only way to justify the terms of the payout. If the money was invested, it couldn't have been used to pay Hampton. Hampton (and Wright) is a wholly unrelated transaction. “Down the line” justifications are usually a stretch to begin with. This one is unique in that it starts with a premise that is impossible.

Centerfield Jul 03 2020 05:41 AM Re: Happy Bobby Bonilla Day!

Also. I've written this before, but the Bonilla deal deserves all its criticism. Here's why. 1. It starts with trading for an expensive middle reliever. Mel Rojas. Relief pitchers are notoriously unreliable. And Rojas was terrible. 2. In 1999, Rojas had one year, $4.5M left on his contract. Seeking to salary dump, the Mets traded for an even worse contract. Washed up Bonilla and his 2 year contract, $5.9M each year. 3. Bonilla was terrible. And so after paying him $5.9 in 1999, he was owed $5.9 in 2000. Enter the payout. The Wilpons thought this deal made sense because they would save money in the long run because of Madoff. This separates the Bonilla deferrals from, say Max Scherzer. With Scherzer, you agree to pay the piper later in order to sign an elite player now. Bonilla wasn't about that. He wasn't a star. He wasn't going to bring short term gain. In fact, he was released. The whole payout was “this deal may look bad on its face, but silly you, I know a guy”. 4. That guy was Madoff. And the present value calculations used to measure whether it was a good deal or not all go out the window when you lose all your money in a Ponzi scheme. And so that's why it deserves ridicule. Trading for an expensive middle reliever, then turning a $4.5M debt into $5.9M in 1999, and 30M over 25 years. Genius.

Ceetar Jul 03 2020 06:14 AM Re: Happy Bobby Bonilla Day!

but that's all wrong, and they DID invest with Madoff, and DID get 10+% returns for another decade. But this has all been rehashed and debunked and it's nothing, and also it's literally what like every team does. The story here is that media and bloggers and forumites drag it up every year like it's a #LOLMets gotcha when it's not, it's just MLB teams business as usual, and the Mets are 1 of many and not special, in either direction.

Centerfield Jul 03 2020 06:54 AM Re: Happy Bobby Bonilla Day!

I'll ignore your silly statement that my post is all wrong and just focus on the returns. If I invest $6M for a decade and make 10% returns each year, but then lose my principal because it's a Ponzi scheme, then I haven't made 10% returns. I've given the fund an interest free loan for 10 years. If I lose my returns (or any portion thereof) in a clawback lawsuit, I've now lost even more money. Please stop trying to tell me it's regular practice for teams to follow the path of incompetence that I just laid out.

Ceetar Jul 03 2020 07:19 AM Re: Happy Bobby Bonilla Day!

it is and you're wrong and I don't care to argue points with you that were resolved and over-analyzed decades ago. you're wrong, it's been beat to death and a teensy little line item on a budget somewhere, maybe not even the Mets budget is not even worth mentioning once never mind regularly, all day, every year and the only reason I haven't muted this thread is because i'm depressed and board and mindlessly distracting my brain. If I borrow $5 from you to play poker, promising you $10 in the future, and then win $20 it's not particularly interesting that I lost it all in the slot machine, except maybe I didn't lose after all, I just said the slot machine took my money because the poker game was rigged and someone thinks I should repay the money I won there to the players that lost.

whippoorwill Jul 03 2020 08:21 AM Re: Happy Bobby Bonilla Day!

I'm finding the Bobby Valentine story more interesting than Bobby Bonilla

whippoorwill Jul 03 2020 08:22 AM Re: Happy Bobby Bonilla Day!

I can take it darker if you like. what do you think the odds are that the Wilpons/media count Bonilla's contract as part of the "bleeding money!" cries about how much they're losing a year? They should.

Johnny Lunchbucket Jul 03 2020 11:01 AM Re: Happy Bobby Bonilla Day!

Neither here not there but Bonilla could have been a very valuable piece to that '99 team, a veteran switch-hitter with power who could fake it at third, first or the corners, all good teams want one of those. It's just that Bonilla wasn't ready for that role. If he only was as good as he was the following year with Atlanta, which wasn't great but okay, it might have worked out well. The LOLMETS thing is more Bonilla-related than wasted-money related than anything: He was a guy they overpaid not once but twice and now in perpetuity; missed expectations to a large degree both times; as sure as hell wasn't Darryl Strawberry; and closely involved in the narrative of a near-great team that fell just short of its goals.

Frayed Knot Jul 03 2020 01:23 PM Re: Happy Bobby Bonilla Day!

=Ceetar post_id=39809 time=1593778462 user_id=102] but that's all wrong, and they DID invest with Madoff, and DID get 10+% returns for another decade.

They got PAPER returns of 10% maybe, but that's not the same thing as actually accruing the money. Then all that money they made on paper disappeared when the gig was up, and at

least part of whatever amount they cashed in on in the interim was subject to the clawback suit which followed so they didn't have that either, certainly not all of it anyway. And remember that

these payments didn't even start to right around the time the whole Madoff scandal was coming to light.



So while, yeah, deferring payments to players while counting on interest bearing investments to make the future increased payments worthwhile is indeed common in sports, what's different here

is that they invested with a crook while counting on the rosy -- and, some would argue, unrealistic -- scenarios he promised to continue unabated. So in the end they wind up having to take current

(and future) money to pay off the remainder of the deal rather than having a past investment handle it all. And while it's not a crazy amount, having to pay out a million-plus bucks every year for a

couple of decades that you weren't planning on and pretty soon it starts to add up to real money.

ashie62 Jul 03 2020 10:33 PM Re: Happy Bobby Bonilla Day!

Bobby Bonilla/agent made a great deal. God bless him