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Anyone remember the "Cleveland Indians"?

Benjamin Grimm Jul 03 2020 08:20 PM

It's like dominoes! https://sports.yahoo.com/cleveland-indians-prepared-to-discuss-changing-team-name-004530262.html If they change the name of the team, I very much hope they call them the Cleveland Spiders.

ashie62 Jul 03 2020 10:30 PM Re: Anyone remember the "Cleveland Indians"?

Likely Redskins and Indians will have new names soon Nike pulled the plug on the Redskins

LWFS Jul 03 2020 11:04 PM Re: Anyone remember the "Cleveland Indians"?

It HAS to be the Spiders. Even leaving aside the history-- can you imagine how sick those uniforms will look? No. Try now (courtesy of UniWatch contributor Tom Juettner: https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49998452608_c4851e12d5_b.jpg> https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49998975061_25bb851579_b.jpg>

MFS62 Jul 04 2020 06:30 AM Re: Anyone remember the "Cleveland Indians"?

The "Burning Lakes"? Later

Edgy MD Jul 04 2020 07:04 AM Re: Anyone remember the "Cleveland Indians"?

I'd previously thought that the way forward was a more authentic and thoughtful tribute to the Native Americans. But I sure can get behind Spiders. I've tried to look at nickname reforms in a more nuanced way, but it'd be hard for the Redskins and Indians to fold and the Braves to stay in the game.

Benjamin Grimm Jul 04 2020 07:06 AM Re: Anyone remember the "Cleveland Indians"?

I agree. The Braves are probably in the on deck circle, along with the Kansas City Chiefs.

whippoorwill Jul 04 2020 07:19 AM Re: Anyone remember the "Cleveland Indians"?

We've got a treasure trove of Cleveland Indians stuff around my house. I better hang on to it Kinda like the Uncle Bens rice we had to open last night. We were considering keeping it for posterity

stevejrogers Jul 04 2020 09:46 AM Re: Anyone remember the "Cleveland Indians"?

FWIW, the first Clevelander that spent the majority of his tenures with the team while wearing the Chief Wahoo logo on his cap to enter Cooperstown has the team's then (when he played) alternate "C Logo" cap on his plaque: https://www.tradingcarddb.com/Images/Cards/Baseball/10180/10180-10900609Fr.jpg> While its more apropos of the franchise cleansing itself of said logo, it should be noted that I don't think team names have ever been used in the "Franchises played/worked for" listings on the HOF plaques. So in a way they've been ahead of that curve going all the way back to Napoleon Lajoie, Tris Speaker and Cy Young among the first couple of HOF classes!

whippoorwill Jul 04 2020 09:49 AM Re: Anyone remember the "Cleveland Indians"?

Ah Jim Thome. A coobyhouse favorite

Edgy MD Jul 04 2020 11:37 AM Re: Anyone remember the "Cleveland Indians"?

I didn't feel a particular imperative for the Braves to give up their nickname, or even the screaming face in their logo, but my wife reminded me that without the name, and the logo, we wouldn't have the stupid, stupid, tomahawk chop. Right as usual, Dear.

LWFS Jul 04 2020 01:41 PM Re: Anyone remember the "Cleveland Indians"?

Edgy MD wrote: I didn't feel a particular imperative for the Braves to give up their nickname, or even the screaming face in their logo, but my wife reminded me that without the name, and the logo, we wouldn't have the stupid, stupid, tomahawk chop. Right as usual, Dear. What came first-- the Tomahawk Chop or the Seminole War Chant? Pretty sure the Braves just ripped off the collegiates on this.

MFS62 Jul 04 2020 02:00 PM Re: Anyone remember the "Cleveland Indians"?

Edgy MD wrote: I didn't feel a particular imperative for the Braves to give up their nickname, or ever the screaming face in their logo, but my wife reminded me that without the name, and the logo, we wouldn't have the stupid, stupid, tomahawk chop. Right as usual, Dear. What came first-- the Tomahawk Chop or the Seminole War Chant? Pretty sure the Braves just ripped off the collegiates on this. The Native Americans were here first. Anything that followed is just copyright infringement by unwanted immigrants. Later

Frayed Knot Jul 04 2020 03:28 PM Re: Anyone remember the "Cleveland Indians"?

Edgy MD wrote: I didn't feel a particular imperative for the Braves to give up their nickname, or even the screaming face in their logo, but my wife reminded me that without the name, and the logo, we wouldn't have the stupid, stupid, tomahawk chop. Right as usual, Dear. What came first-- the Tomahawk Chop or the Seminole War Chant? Pretty sure the Braves just ripped off the collegiates on this. That's the way I heard it too. One story has it that it was some teammates/frat brothers of Deion Sanders who took the FSU chant to a Braves game during the time he was baseballin' in Atlanta and the FSU pantomime of throwing a spear into the ground, which an actual horse riding "Indian" does on the field prior to Seminole games, wound up morphing into the 'chop'.

Benjamin Grimm Oct 06 2020 08:57 AM Re: Anyone remember the "Cleveland Indians"?

Cleveland Scene wrote: Cleveland already owns the rights to the Cleveland Naps, Cleveland Bronchos and Cleveland Blues. (These were all registered in 2010 for merchandise reasons and renewed in 2020.) The team also has two trademarks on "Tribe," which makes it unlikely the government would grant the "Cleveland Tribe" trademark to anyone else. Full article: >Spiders, Speculation and Trademarks — What's Next in the Cleveland Indians' Search for a New Franchise Name While they were trademarking "Naps" and "Blues" they certainly should have locked down "Spiders". And "Broncho" with an H? It makes me think of a respiratory disease. Not a good connotation, especially these days.

whippoorwill Oct 06 2020 09:09 AM Re: Anyone remember the "Cleveland Indians"?

I think my son would like something to do with the RandR HOF, like Rockers

Benjamin Grimm Oct 06 2020 09:23 AM Re: Anyone remember the "Cleveland Indians"?

If they change their name to "Naps" their logo can be someone taking a siesta in a giant sombrero. They might as well spend the next hundred years offending a different segment of the population. https://i.pinimg.com/originals/74/5e/05/745e05df316ac871730f19945ca62f26.gif>

Chad ochoseis Oct 06 2020 02:23 PM Re: Anyone remember the "Cleveland Indians"?

"Spiders" seems to be the favorite among people I know around here. Spiders don't get easily offended. "Rocks" and "Rockers" feel a little corny. "Guardians" is getting some traction, since the ballpark is located at the foot of a bridge whose pillars have four embedded gargoyles known collectively as the "Guardians of Transportation". But I wouldn't want to have to keep explaining that to out-of-towners. I like "Tribe", but that still has similar connotations to "Indians".

Edgy MD Oct 06 2020 08:31 PM Re: Anyone remember the "Cleveland Indians"?

Nicknaming to underscore your locality's most lucrative tourist attraction is a really minor league practice.

Frayed Knot Oct 06 2020 08:59 PM Re: Anyone remember the "Cleveland Indians"?

Edgy MD wrote: Nicknaming to underscore your locality's most lucrative tourist attraction is a really minor league practice. We object to that implication -- the Binghamton Rumble Ponies

Edgy MD Oct 06 2020 09:07 PM Re: Anyone remember the "Cleveland Indians"?

The Cleveland Slavs. The Cleveland Fellers. The Cleveland Marketeers. The Cleveland Chapmans. Yeah, Spiders is looking better and better.

Frayed Knot Oct 06 2020 09:12 PM Re: Anyone remember the "Cleveland Indians"?

Or they could go full-on minor league and adopt one of those double names that seem to be almost required in today's lower levels -- the Erie Polluters -- the River Fires -- the Lake Mistakes -- the Drew Careys -- the Rust Belters

MFS62 Oct 07 2020 07:06 AM Re: Anyone remember the "Cleveland Indians"?

What about doing the State thingie - the Cleveland Ohioans? It would piss off the Reds, but they consider themselves part of Kentucky anyhow. Later

metsmarathon Oct 07 2020 08:32 AM Re: Anyone remember the "Cleveland Indians"?

[attachment=0]wahoo spider.png[/attachment] fixed it. totally not racist anymore.

ashie62 Oct 07 2020 09:29 AM Re: Anyone remember the "Cleveland Indians"?

Cleveland Red Staters

nymr83 Oct 13 2020 05:12 PM Re: Anyone remember the "Cleveland Indians"?

=metsmarathon post_id=48148 time=1602081152 user_id=83] wahoo spider.png fixed it. totally not racist anymore.

Lmao use this logo!

batmagadanleadoff Dec 13 2020 07:16 PM Re: Anyone remember the "Cleveland Indians"?

Cleveland's Baseball Team Will Drop Its Indians Team Name Excerpt: Following years of protests from fans and Native American groups, the Cleveland Indians have decided to change their team name, moving away from a moniker that has long been criticized as racist, three people familiar with the decision said Sunday. The move follows a decision by the Washington Football Team of the N.F.L. in July to stop using a name long considered a racial slur, and is part of a larger national conversation about race that magnified this year amid protests of systemic racism and police violence. Cleveland could announce its plans as soon as this week, according to the three people, who spoke on condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to speak publicly on the matter. It is not immediately clear what Cleveland's exact steps will be beyond dropping the Indians name. The transition to a new name https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/13/sports/baseball/cleveland-indians-baseball-name-change.html

nymr83 Dec 13 2020 09:40 PM Re: Anyone remember the "Cleveland Indians"?

Please don't be the idiots in Washington. Pick a new name before stepping on the field.

Lefty Specialist Dec 14 2020 04:31 AM Re: Anyone remember the "Cleveland Indians"?

Really, this isn't that hard. Have a fan poll and then pick the name you want anyway. But get it done early so that the marketing and apparel people can get to work. The Washington screwup was predictable because Dan Snyder is a dipstick. Next up, the Braves and that repulsive Tomahawk Chop.

Frayed Knot Dec 14 2020 06:36 AM Re: Anyone remember the "Cleveland Indians"?

The Braves aren't nearly in the same situation. - the word 'Braves' can at least be seen as complimentary, or at least not as generically insensitive - they don't have an embarrassingly cartoonish caricature as a logo - they do have an ongoing dialog with native representation in their region on the name and related topics - and while it's tough to stop fans intent on doing the chop, the team is no longer actively encouraging it during games

Benjamin Grimm Dec 14 2020 06:44 AM Re: Anyone remember the "Cleveland Indians"?

I agree with the above. But if the Atlanta Baseball Team does opt to change its name, I nominate the "Atlanta Bees". It would go back to a name that the franchise had for a while when it played in Boston.

Frayed Knot Dec 14 2020 07:14 AM Re: Anyone remember the "Cleveland Indians"?

I'm not sure if Bees was ever meant to represent the flying insects or whether it was just a shortened version of Braves. Back in the early days of baseball, nicknames were more informal and what you'd call a team might vary depending on the part of the city you lived in or which newspaper you read.

Benjamin Grimm Dec 14 2020 07:16 AM Re: Anyone remember the "Cleveland Indians"?

Either way, it's a better historical name than Crackers, which was the longtime minor-league team that played in Atlanta.

Frayed Knot Dec 14 2020 07:31 AM Re: Anyone remember the "Cleveland Indians"?

Yeah, I was thinking that Crackers might stir up folks in the White Lives Matter group.

Edgy MD Dec 14 2020 09:13 AM Re: Anyone remember the "Cleveland Indians"?

Yeah, I'm all for approaching this stuff with nuance, on a case-by-case basis, rather than treating them all the same. Frayed Knot wrote: The Braves aren't nearly in the same situation. - the word 'Braves' can at least be seen as complimentary, or at least not as generically insensitive Perfectly true. Frayed Knot wrote: - they don't have an embarrassingly cartoonish caricature as a logo -Ish. The violently screaming tribesman isn't embarrassingly cartoonish, but he's sure not advancing thoughtful understanding and dialogue. Frayed Knot wrote: - they do have an ongoing dialog with native representation in their region on the name and related topics And unlike the Washington Football Team, the "dialog" isn't just using some representative sap as pr cover. Frayed Knot wrote: - and while it's tough to stop fans intent on doing the chop, the team is no longer actively encouraging it during games It all begins here, doesn't it? Talking about a new nickname without first ending that stupid chop thing is ass-backwards. Although, tomahawk chopping would sure be pointless if your team was called "The Peaches" or something.

Benjamin Grimm Dec 14 2020 09:15 AM Re: Anyone remember the "Cleveland Indians"?

Well, if they change their name to "Bees" instead of doing a tomahawk chop, the fans can flit around in the stands pretending to pollinate flowers.

Edgy MD Dec 14 2020 09:28 AM Re: Anyone remember the "Cleveland Indians"?

The Cleveland organization can honor the Jacobs ownership and call themselves The Cleveland Jakes. Then they can switch their stadium name sponsor from Progressive to State Farm.

A Boy Named Seo Dec 14 2020 11:47 AM Re: Anyone remember the "Cleveland Indians"?

Paddy Power putting 3-1 on the Spiders to be the next team name*. I think that would be a great nick, nod to history, and could produce some great logos. /slams gavel *I made this up

G-Fafif Dec 14 2020 12:05 PM Re: Anyone remember the "Cleveland Indians"?

https://twitter.com/aedwardslevy/status/1338301844083388423?s=21

Benjamin Grimm Dec 14 2020 12:12 PM Re: Anyone remember the "Cleveland Indians"?

https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/1092454427049578499/SMRmdbPX_400x400.jpg>

Frayed Knot Dec 14 2020 12:17 PM Re: Anyone remember the "Cleveland Indians"?

And Mike Hargrove, tabbed with the less-than inventive but quite sportsy nickname of 'Grover', both played and managed in Cleveland - so it works that way too.

Benjamin Grimm Dec 14 2020 12:19 PM Re: Anyone remember the "Cleveland Indians"?

It will be more "basebally" if they call themselves the Cleveland Grover-Alexanders.

Frayed Knot Dec 14 2020 12:38 PM Re: Anyone remember the "Cleveland Indians"?

Not that I needed a lot of convincing on the name change, but the fact that Trump dislikes it just adds more ammo to the decision.

Benjamin Grimm Dec 16 2020 02:31 PM Re: Anyone remember the "Cleveland Indians"?

They'll continue to be the Indians for the 2021 season, and then they'll be the Something Elses beginning in 2022.

Frayed Knot Dec 16 2020 02:35 PM Re: Anyone remember the "Cleveland Indians"?

Benjamin Grimm wrote: ... they'll be the Something Elses beginning in 2022. That's a terrible name.

Edgy MD Dec 16 2020 03:27 PM Re: Anyone remember the "Cleveland Indians"?

I don't get that. I assume licensing deals have to be honored, but there ain't much more honor than that in it.

Benjamin Grimm Dec 16 2020 03:32 PM Re: Anyone remember the "Cleveland Indians"?

I guess they didn't want to be "Cleveland Baseball Team" for a year. They should have spent the last however many months, since the Redskins announcement, laying the groundwork for this instead of starting now. I read that just a couple of months ago, some squatter trademarked "Cleveland Spiders". The MLB team should have grabbed that years ago. They've already missed out on https://clevelandspiders.com/

MFS62 Dec 26 2020 12:20 PM Re: Anyone remember the "Cleveland Indians"?

I thought of this thread when I watched Major League the other night. Will we be able to enjoy the movie after they change the team name, even after it becomes an anachronism? Later

G-Fafif Dec 30 2020 12:59 PM Re: Anyone remember the "Cleveland Indians"?

The moral arc of the universe was running late c. 1986. https://twitter.com/super70ssports/status/1344368953569800196?s=21

A Boy Named Seo Dec 30 2020 01:43 PM Re: Anyone remember the "Cleveland Indians"?

Yikes.

whippoorwill Dec 30 2020 02:24 PM Re: Anyone remember the "Cleveland Indians"?

That's hilarious BTW my son says he's okay with ‘Spiders'

Chad ochoseis Dec 30 2020 03:06 PM Re: Anyone remember the "Cleveland Indians"? Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Dec 30 2020 03:43 PM

Are you sure that was meant to be Indian dress? I look at that and I'm searching for a 1986 story about them considering a name change to "Village People". "Spiders" seems to be the consensus winner. "Rocks" is just too cute and corny. If an MLS franchise ever comes to Cleveland, they can be the Rocks. "Guardians" is getting some traction, but having to explain to out-of-towners that it's because the bridge next to the ballpark has some cool sculptures named the "Guardians of Traffic" is going to get old fast. The main argument against "Spiders" is that the 19th century version didn't end well. I imagine the trademark issue can be bargained into irrelevance or handled in some other way. In a country where public entities can legally take over privately-owned land for public benefit, there's got to be some kind of a way that intellectual property issues can be finessed as well. If they become the "Shaker Heights Spiders" and still play their games downtown, maybe that withstands a legal challenge. OE - I looked through the history of this thread and realized I posted this almost verbatim three months ago. I'm consistent, anyway.

TransMonk Dec 30 2020 03:09 PM Re: Anyone remember the "Cleveland Indians"?

As an aside, @Super70sSports is a must-follow on Twitter.

Benjamin Grimm Dec 30 2020 03:10 PM Re: Anyone remember the "Cleveland Indians"?

I guess they can be the "Ohio Spiders" or the "Cuyahoga County Spiders" or even the "Lake Erie Spiders".

LWFS Dec 30 2020 10:50 PM Re: Anyone remember the "Cleveland Indians"?

"Washington Football Team" + kick-drum-pattern-based bassline groove = https://i1.wp.com/www.13thfloor.co.nz/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/Ohio-Players.jpg?resize=371%2C278&ssl=1>

whippoorwill Dec 31 2020 12:48 PM Re: Anyone remember the "Cleveland Indians"?

There ya go!