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Now Opening

Edgy MD Jul 30 2020 07:58 AM

If ... [list] [*]the Mets are not going to let Jacob deGrom pitch deep into games (and now three managers into his tenure, it appears they are not); and [*]the team is failing to effectively maximize deGrom's performances by winning games while he is on the mound; and [*]the myth that any bullpen can ever be relied on to shut down a narrow lead over multiple innings keeps exploding in their faces; and [*]the period over which they seek these shutdowns only grows longer as managers' taste for letting their starters continue grows increasingly unpalatable ... [/list] ... is it not time to consider using a designated opener with deGrom (and perhaps other starters), letting his marginal innings come in the seventh, eighth, and perhaps ninth instead of the fifth through the seventh? Lugo, Gsellman, Strickland. Let one of 'em start and go two innings before deGrom or somebody else takes the hill. Then we can root for the pitcher into the ninth, rather than miserably watch the game taken out of his able hands during a great performance.

TransMonk Jul 30 2020 08:04 AM Re: Now Opening

Absolutely. This season is the perfect time to introduce this strategy.

MFS62 Jul 30 2020 08:21 AM Re: Now Opening

This post made me check and I found out that Gsellman is currently on the IL. I was wondering why we hadn't seen him yet this year. Later

Benjamin Grimm Jul 30 2020 08:48 AM Re: Now Opening

What if the bullpen guys give up four or five runs in those first few innings? Do you bring deGrom into a game in the fourth inning when you're losing 5-0? Or save him and try again tomorrow?

Edgy MD Jul 30 2020 09:41 AM Re: Now Opening

Bumping an ace to the next day if there are early indications of a blowout is certainly a viable strategy, but I don't think it's been tried yet. Rotation days are generally too sacrosanct. More likely is him coming into a game down 1-3 runs, and rooting for six or seven innings that he can help his team back into a game in which they fell behind early is surely better than rooting for them to pull out a win for a bullpen that has already unmade his effort.

whippoorwill Jul 30 2020 10:04 AM Re: Now Opening

=MFS62 post_id=42164 time=1596118907 user_id=60] This post made me check and I found out that Gsellman is currently on the IL. I was wondering why we hadn't seen him yet this year. Later

How the heck can somebody get hurt this year? Unless it's surgery

batmagadanleadoff Jul 30 2020 10:09 AM Re: Now Opening Edited 4 time(s), most recently on Jul 30 2020 10:18 AM

I don't see how it's supposed to make a logical difference whether deGrom is pitching the first five or six innings of a game or the last five or six innings of a game. Unless the Mets open with a lefty on deGrom's day and the opposing team sets a lineup geared towards a lefty pitcher. Then there might be an advantage to bringing deGrom in midway. But If deGrom is pitching the same five or six innings, then he'd be on regular rest and a regular schedule and the opposing manager should know with great precision, which game deGrom will enter midway. The Mets inability to capitalize on deGrom's brilliance is nothing more than a bizarre and tremendous statistical fluke that should eventually disappear so long as deGrom continues to pitch like he has been pitching. Having him finish rather than start games shouldn't change anything. This shit can happen from time to time. Like going 50 years without a no-hitter, especially despite having had a stable of pitchers likely to have thrown one. Or never having had an MVP winner.

Johnny Lunchbucket Jul 30 2020 10:12 AM Re: Now Opening

Or we could drive in runs with 2 guys on and 1 out occassionally and win games by 5 runs like we ought to

nymr83 Jul 30 2020 10:14 AM Re: Now Opening

=batmagadanleadoff post_id=42180 time=1596125342 user_id=68] I don't see how it's supposed to make a logical difference whether deGrom is pitching the first five or six innings of a game or the last five or six innings of a game. Unless the Mets open with a lefty on deGrom's day and the opposing team sets a lineup geared towards a lefty pitcher. Then there might be an advantage to bringing deGrom in midway. But If deGrom is pitching the same five or six innings, then he'd be on regular rest and a regular schedule and the opposing manager should know with great precision, which game deGrom will enter midway. The Mets inability to capitalize on deGrom's brilliance is nothing more than a bizarre and tremendous statistical fluke that should eventually disappear so long as deGrom continues to pitch like he has been pitching. Having him finish rather than start games shouldn't change anything.

I was just going to reply and suggest this - set Justin Wilson as the 'starter' - if the opposing manager takes the bait, deGrom starts the second inning against a righty heavy lineup.

Lefty Specialist Jul 30 2020 10:36 AM Re: Now Opening

Or how about just getting a freaking bullpen who can get people out on a consistent basis? DeGrom could have gone another inning, but they went to the well one time too often with Wilson because they don't trust anyone else besides him and Lugo.

Benjamin Grimm Jul 30 2020 10:44 AM Re: Now Opening

I would have given deGrom another inning, and the same for Betances. Betances had only pitched to one batter. I don't see why they took him out. Managers should conserve their relievers, especially in a DH game where pinch-hitting isn't a factor, in case the game goes into extra innings.

Frayed Knot Jul 30 2020 01:12 PM Re: Now Opening

I think we should just forfeit the games on deGrom dAy before they ever start since not only does he not win any of them but the team usually doesn't either. And think of the wear and tear you'd save on him by doing that!

Benjamin Grimm Jul 30 2020 01:24 PM Re: Now Opening

That's a good idea. Then you can instead use him on games when he doesn't pitch, and since he's so good it would increase our chances of winning!

Edgy MD Jul 30 2020 01:36 PM Re: Now Opening

Lefty Specialist wrote: Or how about just getting a freaking bullpen who can get people out on a consistent basis. Doesn't exist. I don't care if you're the 1990 Reds. The more you lift pitchers who are pitching well, the more likely it is to blow up in your face. The best way to get the most effective pitching is to respect effective pitching by using it when you find it. Nobody says, half way through the third quarter of a basketball game, "You know, Stephen Curry is having a great game, but we've got eight guys on our bench and other players should be able to hit baskets too. Let's end his night to make sure he doesn't get hurt." Get the win and then work on preserving your players. As for what advantage it gives you: [list] [*]yes, it could challenge an opposition manager to decide whether to deploy righthanded bats or lefthanded bats, [*]blowouts happen, but later innings generally tend to be higher leverage innings than earlier innings, [*]When a manager decides whether to his pitcher in the late innings, his decision will be entirely dependent on whether the pitcher is the right choice to continue, and nothing based on whether he feels he needs to keep a pitch count down. [*]If you want to reward your ace with big numbers, pitching from the third inning on increases the chance that a pitcher gets a win. (If he enters with a lead he becomes the pitcher of record the moment he finishes the fifth). It similarly, decreases the chance that the pitcher gets a loss. (If he enters with a deficit, the only way he can get a loss is if the team catches up and then he lets them fall behind again. [/list] This is the way Little League coaches have been operating for decades. In the leagues that limit pitchers to four innings in a game, the LL coach typically plans to use two pitchers in a six-inning game: the lesser pitcher for the first two innings, and the better pitcher for the last four. If you get a chance to shorten a game by reducing opportunities for the opposition, you tend to want to do it from the back end.

Frayed Knot Jul 30 2020 03:26 PM Re: Now Opening

Of course part of the issue with deGrom (and any other starter you care to name) is the overall debate over workload and how much is too much. Without an answer to that, and there's certainly no consensus on the matter, 'overly cautious' could be construed and 'wisely prudent'. It could be argued that pulling him after 5 innings (72 pitches) and 6 innings (88) in his two starts to date this season is the result of the interrupted ST and the brief revamped version in the summer. Go back to last year and JdG hurled 100 or more pitches more often than he didn't (23 to 9) and never threw less than 89. And while I'd certainly agree that there's nothing magic about the 100 plateau, are we going to find a manager and/or front office that's going to see busting that limit nearly three games out of every four as something that's too low and needs to be ramped up? And, yeah, Scherzer has thrown 98 & 112 in his two starts this season [5.1 IP, 4 ER, L; 7.1, 0 ER, ND]. But his 2019 saw an 18/9 ratio of 100+ vs sub-100 pitch games, iow, as many sub-100 pitch games as JdG (9) but in five fewer starts, or twice over-100 in every three outings