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The Negro Leagues as Major Leagues

G-Fafif Aug 14 2020 09:42 AM

Really deep dive on a really compelling idea. https://www.theringer.com/mlb/2020/8/14/21368488/major-league-negro-leagues-classification Because of the prejudiced decision of a committee that met more than 50 years ago, the Negro Leagues are still excluded from the official list of major leagues, much as Black players before 1947—and, in many cases, long after—were excluded from the American and National Leagues. Like those players, the Negro Leagues have been denied an opportunity to prove that they were as deserving of major league status as their white contemporaries. But for the first time, MLB is considering righting that wrong. I entered a little skeptical and exited completely on board.

MFS62 Aug 14 2020 09:56 AM Re: The Negro Leagues as Major Leagues

Tip your cap. https://www.mlb.com/news/tipping-our-caps-to-negro-leagues-baseball-museum Later

G-Fafif Dec 16 2020 09:17 AM Re: The Negro Leagues as Major Leagues

It's official. The Negro Leagues of 1920-1948 are now recognized as major leagues. https://twitter.com/stellinitweets/status/1339241203414556678?s=21

G-Fafif Dec 16 2020 09:20 AM Re: The Negro Leagues as Major Leagues

Ben Lindbergh of the Ringer explores how one Met's stats might change. Mays went deep at least once in his rookie campaign for the Black Barons, but a box score hasn't been found. Until one is located, his famous mark of 660 homers will stay the same. But the single Mays celebrated as his 3,000th hit in July 1970 will no longer be considered his 3,000th; instead, it may end up as hit no. 3,010 or 3,017, depending on whether his hits in the '48 NAL Championship Series are counted toward his tally. His “new” no. 3,000 might be a hit he believed to be no. 2,983 or 2,990. His first major league hit will no longer be the homer he launched off of Warren Spahn on May 28, 1951, but—at least for now—his single off Leniel Hooker on July 25, 1948. And the stories about how he started his big league career by going 1-for-26 will need an addendum—or, perhaps, a preface (although Mays did go 0-for-13 in his first four documented Negro Leagues games). https://www.theringer.com/mlb/2020/12/16/22178257/mlb-acknowledge-negro-leagues-officially

MFS62 Dec 16 2020 09:44 AM Re: The Negro Leagues as Major Leagues Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Dec 16 2020 09:48 AM

It's official. The Negro Leagues of 1920-1948 are now recognized as major leagues. BBbbuuttt, what about Satchel Paige's numbers before 1920? (I'm not sure if I was kidding) As noted, those leagues played fewer scheduled games (not counting barnstorming) than the Majors, so the traditional "counting numbers" will make their totals look inferior. But the newer relative stats, like ERA+, OPS will tell their story. Compiling the numbers will be a daunting task, even if box scores can be found. I have a copy of Robert Peterson's Only The Ball Was White. He includes a list of all Negro League players, their teams and years played. But in some cases, only the last name is there. Linking stats with the proper player will be difficult. Later

Benjamin Grimm Dec 16 2020 09:48 AM Re: The Negro Leagues as Major Leagues

WHOA! Will this put Hank Aaron ahead of Barry Bonds????

Frayed Knot Dec 16 2020 10:03 AM Re: The Negro Leagues as Major Leagues

There was a good piece on HBOs REAL SPORTS a month or two back about a guy who has, for years, been compiling Negro LG stats to the point where the old argument about how non-inclusion being based on NNL & NAL records being incomplete or sketchy was becoming tougher to defend. Not surprisingly, black oriented newspapers turned out to be among the best sources.

Benjamin Grimm Dec 16 2020 10:21 AM Re: The Negro Leagues as Major Leagues

Ugh. Hank Aaron only played one season in the Negro Leagues, 1952 with the Indianapolis Clowns, and he hit... five home runs, which will bring his total to 760, two shy of Barry Bonds. I think the state of Texas should sue the Indianapolis Clowns to demand a recount.

Edgy MD Dec 16 2020 01:43 PM Re: The Negro Leagues as Major Leagues

That's the thing, though. The record is incomplete, so there is still a chance that a pair of homers are out there somewhere. Also, Charlie Pride now gets to be buried as a former Major Leaguer. It's probably in there if I take the time to, you know, read, but what's additionally interesting is whether the surviving Negro League players and their widows get pension benefits.

Benjamin Grimm Dec 16 2020 01:46 PM Re: The Negro Leagues as Major Leagues

Edgy MD wrote: That's the thing, though. The record is incomplete, so there is still a chance that a pair of homers are out there somewhere. Yes, there's still hope. But I'd guess that 1952 records are probably more likely to be compete than those from a couple of decades earlier.

G-Fafif Dec 16 2020 03:42 PM Re: The Negro Leagues as Major Leagues

Unimpressed at the Undefeated. There's a phrase coined, likely by some old white guy, that goes “winners write the history books.” In the case of Major League Baseball, not only do they write the history books, but apparently they decide when everyone else's histories are legitimate, too. On Wednesday, MLB announced that the records and statistics from the seven operations that we now classify as the Negro Leagues will be recognized as part of Major League Baseball's history, presumably paving the way for the posthumous enshrinement of various players into Cooperstown, New York. “The perceived deficiencies of the Negro Leagues' structure and scheduling were born of MLB's exclusionary practices,” John Thorn, the Official Historian for Major League Baseball said in a press release. “And denying them Major League status has been a double penalty, much like that exacted of Hall of Fame candidates prior to Satchel Paige's induction in 1971. Granting MLB status to the Negro Leagues a century after their founding is profoundly gratifying.” Of all the nonsense that the most duplicitously conservative sports league in the history of the United States of America has ever pulled, this might be the most ridiculous piece of soft supremacy we've ever seen. This announcement says: Be grateful, we now view you as whole. News flash: That's the problem. Not the solution. https://theundefeated.com/features/mlb-elevating-the-status-of-negro-leagues-is-the-problem-not-the-solution/

nymr83 Dec 16 2020 05:41 PM Re: The Negro Leagues as Major Leagues

If 'the undefeated' wrote an article expressing positive feelings on a subject, it would be their first.

G-Fafif Dec 16 2020 07:13 PM Re: The Negro Leagues as Major Leagues

Was lucky enough to be on a previously scheduled Zoom with NLBM president Bob Kendrick tonight. He's pretty darn happy.

Edgy MD Dec 16 2020 08:15 PM Re: The Negro Leagues as Major Leagues

If 'the undefeated' wrote an article expressing positive feelings on a subject, it would be their first. I haven't read much from the outlet, I don't think, but I'd be much more interested in the case if the hyperbole wasn't so goofy. I mean, "Of all the nonsense that the most duplicitously conservative sports league in the history of the United States of America has ever pulled, this might be the most ridiculous piece of soft supremacy we've ever seen." What do you do with that?

nymr83 Dec 16 2020 08:43 PM Re: The Negro Leagues as Major Leagues

Edgy MD wrote: If 'the undefeated' wrote an article expressing positive feelings on a subject, it would be their first. I haven't read much from the outlet, I don't think, but I'd be much more interested in the case if the hyperbole wasn't so goofy. I mean, "Of all the nonsense that the most duplicitously conservative sports league in the history of the United States of America has ever pulled, this might be the most ridiculous piece of soft supremacy we've ever seen." What do you do with that? its a sub-site or area of ESPN What do you do with that? You pat yourself on the back that you dropped ESPN Insider like the flaming poop it is and you thank the editors of the Athletic for raising the standards of sports journalism while happily renewing your subscription. Truthfully, I only ever go to ESPN anymore because of fantasy leagues, though i do click some clicky bait while i'm there.

Edgy MD Mar 02 2021 10:41 AM Re: The Negro Leagues as Major Leagues

I may have this wrong, but I'm only just now realizing that if we are categorizing the Negro Leagues as Major Leagues, then we now can say we have had three female big leaguers.

G-Fafif Mar 02 2021 11:13 AM Re: The Negro Leagues as Major Leagues

Edgy MD wrote: I may have this wrong, but I'm only just now realizing that if we are categorizing the Negro Leagues as Major Leagues, then we now can say we have had three female big leaguers. Not quite. The timespan covered is 1920-1948. The ladies came along a little later. https://tht.fangraphs.com/tht-annual-2018/the-negro-leagues-last-hope-three-brave-women/

Edgy MD Mar 02 2021 11:37 AM Re: The Negro Leagues as Major Leagues

Ahhh ... 1948 feels a little forced, though. It's not like once Jacie Robinson landed, equal opportunity reigned supreme.

Willets Point Mar 02 2021 01:13 PM Re: The Negro Leagues as Major Leagues

Technically, this means Jackie Robinson was not a rookie when he won Rookie of the Year. Not that I begrudge him the award one bit.