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Just sayin' -- the Robbie Cano edition

Frayed Knot Aug 18 2020 01:24 PM

Since the ASB in 2019: .317/.362/.582 Now the problem with getting too carried away with those numbers is that it still isn't a huge sample size -- between the missed games due to Covid and several injuries it adds up to 56 games and even within that those games were broken into smaller segments as he missed a 27 game stretch in late 2019, a 9 game chunk this year, plus of course the longer than normal between season gap. Still, it all adds up to a bit more than 1/3 of a full season's worth of PAs so that slash line with a projected 78 XBHs over a full season (~40.5 2Bs + 37.5 HRs) shows that maybe the old goat has something left in him after all. This news probably doesn't make anyone feel any better about the trade but, considering the start he got off to in '19 and the prospect of looking at 4-1/2 more years of that, it's good news in the short term anyway. Now we just need to get the other half of the booty in that deal to get his ass in gear. Plus, he absoltively Key-Rushed those two balls last night.

Edgy MD Aug 18 2020 01:59 PM Re: Just sayin' -- the Robbie Cano edition

I don't want to fall for fool's gold, but lately I've got a Moisés Alou vibe off of him, that he could be an effective hitter into his 40s if the team could just manage to keep two healthy-ish legs under him. Like with Alou, of course, that's a big if. Plus that story Alonso told, about Canó taking over down the stretch last year as far as telling Pete what pitches to expect, added some shine to the polish. And no, I hate all trades, but his recent performance actually does make me feel better about the deal. I could be wrong, but it feels like more sustained success than the team ever saw from Juan Samuel, Carlos Baerga, or Roberto Alomar. Kaz Matsui too. None of them ever peaked at much more than an average starter for the team.

batmagadanleadoff Aug 18 2020 02:51 PM Re: Just sayin' -- the Robbie Cano edition

I'd still rather have Kellenic but in this crazy season where everything Mets has been topsy turvy, last year's most reviled Met, Cano, is this year's best, not even close. And last year's darling, Alonso, has hurt the Mets more than any other batter, by a lot, even though no one's saying anything about that because ... you know ... Alonso.

kcmets Aug 18 2020 03:00 PM Re: Just sayin' -- the Robbie Cano edition

And last year's darling, Alonso, has hurt the Mets more than any other batter, by a lot, even though no one's saying anything about that because ... you know ... Alonso. kcmets wrote: Alonso's funk thrown out, they'd be .500, maybe better.

Johnny Lunchbucket Aug 18 2020 03:03 PM Re: Just sayin' -- the Robbie Cano edition

I'd still rather have Kellenic but in this crazy season where everything Mets has been topsy turvy, last year's most reviled Met, Cano, is this year's best, not even close. And last year's darling, Alonso, has hurt the Mets more than any other batter, by a lot, even though no one's saying anything about that because ... you know ... Alonso. Ahem. http://www.thecranepool.net/phpBB32/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=29564

batmagadanleadoff Aug 18 2020 03:05 PM Re: Just sayin' -- the Robbie Cano edition

Johnny Lunchbucket wrote: I'd still rather have Kellenic but in this crazy season where everything Mets has been topsy turvy, last year's most reviled Met, Cano, is this year's best, not even close. And last year's darling, Alonso, has hurt the Mets more than any other batter, by a lot, even though no one's saying anything about that because ... you know ... Alonso. Ahem. http://www.thecranepool.net/phpBB32/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=29564 Well, yeah. I meant besides us. We're cutting edge.

smg58 Aug 18 2020 03:18 PM Re: Just sayin' -- the Robbie Cano edition

As bad as he's looked at times, Alonso's OPS is .808, and there are two Met regulars with an OPS under .600 -- one of whom also recently made a defensive gaffe that turned a sure out into a game-ending run. Alonso has not hurt the Mets more than any of our other batters. As a firm believer in selling high, I'd be curious to see if anybody is interested in Cano and his contract. The last time he played close to a full season with an OPS over .800 was 2016, and he's not getting younger. It's not clear at all that he can still hit at an elite level for long stretches. But I'm also OK with riding the hot hand in the meantime.

kcmets Aug 18 2020 03:40 PM Re: Just sayin' -- the Robbie Cano edition

Kinda putting lipstick on a pig though, no? I'm on my phone so I can't dig right now but Pete's lack of production with men on base (and risp) has been embarrassing for an all-star. He has to lead the majors in suck amongst elite peers.

batmagadanleadoff Aug 18 2020 03:55 PM Re: Just sayin' -- the Robbie Cano edition Edited 2 time(s), most recently on Aug 18 2020 04:19 PM

=smg58 post_id=44108 time=1597785529 user_id=62] As bad as he's looked at times, Alonso's OPS is .808, and there are two Met regulars with an OPS under .600 -- one of whom also recently made a defensive gaffe that turned a sure out into a game-ending run. Alonso has not hurt the Mets more than any of our other batters.

Each of those two guys has PA's in the 70s. Alonso has 103. That's almost 40% more. Only Nimmo (104) has more. One more.

Frayed Knot Aug 18 2020 03:59 PM Re: Just sayin' -- the Robbie Cano edition Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Aug 18 2020 06:00 PM

=kcmets post_id=44112 time=1597786844 user_id=53] I'm on my phone so I can't dig right now but Pete's lack of production with men on base (and risp) has been embarrassing for an all-star.

This was discussed on last night's game when Gary produced a stat showing how Pete has had more runners on base and in scoring position during his ABs than anyone else in the league.

The number was 30-something and yet he only had 11 RBIs prior to last night (now 12) and 3 of those (now 4) have been him driving himself in via a HR, so he's actually only driven eight

other runners home all season. Not a good number when you've had so many Nimmos and McNeils and Confortos out there standing on pillows in front of you.



oe: I shortchanged Pete on HRs last night, his HRs went from 3 to 5 and his RBIs from 11 to 13 ... but the point still holds, he's been gifted many ducks on many ponds and has brought very

few of them onto dry land.

Johnny Lunchbucket Aug 18 2020 04:26 PM Re: Just sayin' -- the Robbie Cano edition

yeah they've been setting up for him all year. I believe the Mets lead MLB in base hits and gotta be up there in OBP

kcmets Aug 18 2020 04:32 PM Re: Just sayin' -- the Robbie Cano edition

A day or two ago first in hits, walks and hit by pitch. Lotta base traffic left hanging.

Edgy MD Aug 18 2020 05:28 PM Re: Just sayin' -- the Robbie Cano edition

Yeah, all the pieces are there on offense. Just gots to find a way to put 'em together.

MFS62 Aug 18 2020 05:47 PM Re: Just sayin' -- the Robbie Cano edition

Edgy MD wrote: Yeah, all the pieces are there on offense. Just gots to find a way to put 'em together. As Murph used to say, "build a run". Later

Edgy MD Aug 18 2020 08:12 PM Re: Just sayin' -- the Robbie Cano edition

He's becoming the at-bat I don't want to miss.

Frayed Knot Aug 18 2020 08:27 PM Re: Just sayin' -- the Robbie Cano edition Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Aug 19 2020 04:57 AM

Johnny Lunchbucket wrote: I believe the Mets lead MLB in base hits and gotta be up there in OBP Coming into tonight: Hits = 1st BA = 2 OBA = 1 SLG = 11 BB = 5 HBP = 1 But then the kicker: RS/G is below average and only 16th best in MLB despite all those 'firsts' above, and LOB = 1st ... nearly 25% higher than the team in 2nd and more than 40% over league average Alonso is likely the worst offender on the team though hardly the only one

MFS62 Aug 19 2020 10:58 AM Re: Just sayin' -- the Robbie Cano edition

His performance make me think MLB is just testing for COVID-19 these days. As you said, "just sayin'." Later

Frayed Knot Aug 19 2020 11:34 AM Re: Just sayin' -- the Robbie Cano edition

Check out the LOB "leaders", with Tuesday's games included, and see if one team doesn't stand apart just a wee bit 10th most - LAA 157 T8 - SFG 158 T8 - CHW 158 T6 - LAD 159 T6 - BOS 159 5 - SEA 161 4 - ARZ 162 3 - HOU 163 2 - ATL 166 1st -- NYM ... 206 !! I mean, Shyeet, the gap between the last place Cardinals and the team in 29th is right about the same size but that's only because the Cards missed like 57 games in a row or something. But taking just the 25 teams who have played more or less full schedules (20 to 25 games played) the range in LOB from 25th place to 2nd is 38, but then from 2nd to 1st is 40 Now this is somewhat flawed "analysis" because if you have more baserunners you're going to leave more on even if you are knocking them in at a reasonable rate so you'd really want to do some sort of percentage left on thing which is more complicated than my brain can handle right now. But you'd almost have to intentionally screw up with runners on base in order to leave 200+ of them stranded in just 25 games and to be nearly 25% clear of the field.

kcmets Aug 19 2020 11:54 AM Re: Just sayin' -- the Robbie Cano edition

And how many of those LOB are Pete's doing? Poor Robbie, Petey gone and hijacked his thread. I know that clutch is mostly a dirty word in these them parts but the Mets haven't been very clutch. Yet! It's coming...

batmagadanleadoff Aug 19 2020 12:16 PM Re: Just sayin' -- the Robbie Cano edition

I know that clutch is mostly a dirty word in these them parts but the Mets haven't been very clutch. Yet! It's coming... "Clutch" isn't a dirty word and "clutch hitting" isn't a dirty phrase. Or at least, they shouldn't be. Clutch hitting happens all the time and doesn't happen all the time. There are definitely clutch hits. What there aren't are clutch hitters. What clutch hitting isn't is a skill -- a repeatable skill -- like hitting home runs or stealing second base or being able to consistently throw a 96MPH fastball on the black.

kcmets Aug 19 2020 12:21 PM Re: Just sayin' -- the Robbie Cano edition

I was being tongue in cheeky or something...

batmagadanleadoff Aug 19 2020 12:28 PM Re: Just sayin' -- the Robbie Cano edition

Me too.

Benjamin Grimm Aug 19 2020 12:38 PM Re: Just sayin' -- the Robbie Cano edition

Clutch hitting isn't a measurable skill. That doesn't mean that it doesn't exist. If it exists, it's a personality trait. Which players can up their focus in a key situation? Which players get wobbly knees? I don't discount the notion that some players are "clutch".

batmagadanleadoff Aug 19 2020 12:46 PM Re: Just sayin' -- the Robbie Cano edition

Benjamin Grimm wrote: Clutch hitting isn't a measurable skill. That doesn't mean that it doesn't exist. If it exists, it's a personality trait. Which players can up their focus in a key situation? Which players get wobbly knees? I don't discount the notion that some players are "clutch". Yeah? Then which ones? Because in over 150 years of baseball and baseball statistics pored over by mathematical rocket scientists, there isn't a shred of evidence that clutch hitters exist. You'd think they'd find at least one or three with over 150 years worth of stats. And if a player had the ability, the skills, to improve his batting efficiency in clutch situations, why wouldn't that batter do it all the time instead of just when it's clutch time? Because it's just as important, just as clutch, really, to hit a double with nobody on base as it is to hit a double with a runner on second base. In that sequence of events, for example, the run-scorer was just as necessary as the run-batted-in-batter in producing that run.

Benjamin Grimm Aug 19 2020 01:10 PM Re: Just sayin' -- the Robbie Cano edition

I said it's not measurable. I also didn't insist that it exists, I said I'm not discounting the possibility.

Edgy MD Aug 19 2020 01:50 PM Re: Just sayin' -- the Robbie Cano edition

We've really had the clutch argument enough.

MFS62 Aug 19 2020 01:53 PM Re: Just sayin' -- the Robbie Cano edition

So, is the non-"clutch" performance still called a choke? Or is that not politically correct any more? Over the years there have been players who I NEVER wanted to see in a game deciding situation, either at bat or in the field ("please don't hit it to him") and they never seemed to change my mind. I'm sure their performances didn't deviate much from their statistical norms in those situations either, but the memories still linger. OE: Typed while Edgy was posting. Later

kcmets Aug 19 2020 01:56 PM Re: Just sayin' -- the Robbie Cano edition

I know people who would shoot someone for suggesting Jeter wasn't Mr. Clutch.

MFS62 Aug 19 2020 02:04 PM Re: Just sayin' -- the Robbie Cano edition

=kcmets post_id=44191 time=1597867004 user_id=53] I know people who would shoot someone for suggesting Jeter wasn't Mr. Clutch.

Didn't someone (here) publish an analysis that showed that his BAwRISP was identical (if not a tad lower) than with the bases empty?

I should have kept that to show the Jeter-lovers.



Later

kcmets Aug 19 2020 03:43 PM Re: Just sayin' -- the Robbie Cano edition

Not sure my YLDF's could wrap their 'got-rings?' heads around BAwRISP.

nymr83 Aug 19 2020 05:08 PM Re: Just sayin' -- the Robbie Cano edition

Benjamin Grimm wrote: Clutch hitting isn't a measurable skill. That doesn't mean that it doesn't exist. If it exists, it's a personality trait. Which players can up their focus in a key situation? Which players get wobbly knees? I don't discount the notion that some players are "clutch". Yeah? Then which ones? Derek Jeter, of course.

MFS62 Aug 19 2020 05:35 PM Re: Just sayin' -- the Robbie Cano edition

Benjamin Grimm wrote: Clutch hitting isn't a measurable skill. That doesn't mean that it doesn't exist. If it exists, it's a personality trait. Which players can up their focus in a key situation? Which players get wobbly knees? I don't discount the notion that some players are "clutch". Yeah? Then which ones? Derek Jeter, of course. I just threw up in my mouth, and I knew you were joking. Weren't you? Later

Frayed Knot Aug 19 2020 05:40 PM Re: Just sayin' -- the Robbie Cano edition

Jeter Fans: Jeter is clutch!! --- But the stats say otherwise JF: Jeter's not about stats