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RIP Dick Allen, 1942-2020

G-Fafif Dec 07 2020 01:29 PM

Monster slugger, ultimately beloved by two bands of fans — three, counting those of us who considered him among the coolest players of our youth,

MFS62 Dec 07 2020 01:42 PM Re: RIP Dick Allen, 1942-2020

George Weis passed on him (and Luis Tiant) in the same year of the minor league (that generation's Rule V) draft because he said they were "too colorful". What a shame. The Mets could have had both for under $50,000. If you remember that Hall of Fame is also about fame, he should be in there. RIP Later

Chad ochoseis Dec 08 2020 10:38 AM Re: RIP Dick Allen, 1942-2020

I'm on vacation this week and COVID is keeping me close to home, so I was hiking not far from Dick Allen's hometown of Wampum, PA yesterday and was thinking about driving through to check it out. But PA has signs all over saying that out-of-staters need to quarantine, so I decided to just do my hike and get back home. I generally dislike the whole idea of a Veterans Committee. If you've had ten shots at the HoF and you haven't gotten in, that's a good sign that you don't belong. But Dick Allen is an exception. I posted this once and Edgy strenuously disagreed, and I can't prove my point with data, but I still say that a mouthy *white* guy who put up his numbers in that era would have made the Hall easily.

Benjamin Grimm Dec 08 2020 10:42 AM Re: RIP Dick Allen, 1942-2020

Dick Allen's similarity scores, according to Baseball Reference: Ryan Braun (933.6) Lance Berkman (903.2) Reggie Smith (894.0) Ellis Burks (890.8) Brian Giles (889.9) Nelson Cruz (884.8) Jermaine Dye (880.7) George Foster (880.1) Fred Lynn (875.8) Tim Salmon (875.8)

MFS62 Dec 08 2020 10:42 AM Re: RIP Dick Allen, 1942-2020

Chad ochoseis wrote: I posted this once and Edgy strenuously disagreed, and I can't prove my point with data, but I still say that a mouthy *white* guy who put up his numbers in that era would have made the Hall easily. Here are some data to support your case: https://www.mlb.com/news/dick-allen-one-of-greatest-mlb-hitters Later

Chad ochoseis Dec 08 2020 10:50 AM Re: RIP Dick Allen, 1942-2020

Benjamin Grimm wrote: Dick Allen's similarity scores, according to Baseball Reference: I think that gets dicey with 60s-70s guys. In theory, the stats are adjusted for park effects and era, but I've never been very confident that it does a great job with extreme hitter-dominant or pitcher-dominant eras or ballparks. So I don't know that it gives guys like Dick Allen and Joe Torre enough credit, or adjusts the Lance Berkmans and Dante Bichettes of the world far enough downward.

Edgy MD Dec 08 2020 10:52 AM Re: RIP Dick Allen, 1942-2020

Chad ochoseis wrote: I'm on vacation this week and COVID is keeping me close to home, so I was hiking not far from Dick Allen's hometown of Wampum, PA yesterday and was thinking about driving through to check it out. But PA has signs all over saying that out-of-staters need to quarantine, so I decided to just do my hike and get back home. I generally dislike the whole idea of a Veterans Committee. If you've had ten shots at the HoF and you haven't gotten in, that's a good sign that you don't belong. But Dick Allen is an exception. I posted this once and Edgy strenuously disagreed, and I can't prove my point with data, but I still say that a mouthy *white* guy who put up his numbers in that era would have made the Hall easily. You're kind of on both sides of that one, though. Against Veterans Committees, but backing the exact sort of candidacy that needs one. I'm all for Veterans Committees, but with a clear mission, consistent standards, and working with thoughtful research. If Dick Allen's candidacy makes it through that sort of vetting, more power to him. Similarity scores are tough to use in such cases, because they are not adjusted for era, and his era skewed somewhat far from the mean (which Chad notes in his post submitted just as I was submitting this).

smg58 Dec 08 2020 11:02 AM Re: RIP Dick Allen, 1942-2020

His career OPS+ is 156, which ties Frank Thomas and some guy named Mays. His 15-year career is relatively short, but he's surrounded by Hall-of-Famers on that list. I don't think this should be difficult. And it probably should have been addressed while he was alive.

Benjamin Grimm Dec 08 2020 11:18 AM Re: RIP Dick Allen, 1942-2020

The Phillies were going to retire his number this year, weren't they? Did that get postponed (as with Jerry Koosman) or did they go ahead and do it anyway. Even if he didn't live to see it, at least he knew it was going to happen.

batmagadanleadoff Dec 08 2020 11:37 AM Re: RIP Dick Allen, 1942-2020

Where was this thread hiding? Didn't see it when I posted this morning. Dick ("Richie") ("Don't call me 'Richie'") Allen, seven time all-star, 1972 AL MVP and deserving Hall of Famer, 78. [FIMG=333]https://images.fineartamerica.com/images/artworkimages/mediumlarge/2/chicago-white-sox-dick-allen-june-12-1972-sports-illustrated-cover.jpg[/FIMG] [FIMG=444]https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71aAcR2a8BL._AC_SY679_.jpg[/FIMG] [FIMG=333]https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/91QW0RW%2BGEL._AC_SY550_.jpg[/FIMG] [FIMG=355]https://jasoncards.files.wordpress.com/2015/02/allen_071670_jet.jpg[/FIMG] [FIMG=444]https://sportscollectorsdigest.com/.image/t_share/MTc2MjgyMTc5NDc3OTA2NjIy/5-sportingnewscover.jpg[/FIMG] [FIMG=444]https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/f70AAOSwc-tY7N3L/s-l400.jpg[/FIMG]

G-Fafif Dec 08 2020 11:52 AM Re: RIP Dick Allen, 1942-2020

Allen's first go-round in Philly was legendarily stormy. His second? Kinda crazy in its own right. Here's a sentence I didn't expect to read. The Broom Closet Incident was likewise rehashed, with Tug McGraw stating in a team meeting that “some of us white guys” were wondering “where all the black guys were.” https://sabr.org/journal/article/dick-allens-second-act/

G-Fafif Dec 08 2020 12:03 PM Re: RIP Dick Allen, 1942-2020

The above was written by Allen's biographer Mitchell Nathanson, who has also published a rueful reflection on how Allen was screwed over by the Golden Era committee. After being summarily ignored by the writers when he was up for enshrinement in the 1980s, Allen's case for the Hall gained traction in the last several years as his advanced metrics screamed in black-and-white what fans who were paying attention decades earlier could have told you: that Dick Allen was one of the greatest hitters of his era. In 2014 he found himself on the Hall's “Golden Era” ballot and missed by one vote (12 were required for enshrinement). Closer examination of that vote suggested that something smelled. One of the committee members – Bob Watson – didn't show up and was replaced at the last minute by Dave Dombrowski. At least according to another committee member, Jim Bunning, the entire process was shrouded in confusion and secrecy. "Bob Watson didn't make it. They never told us why,” Bunning to the Daily News's Stan Hochman in February 2015. “If he'd been there, it might have made a difference for two guys, Allen and Tony Oliva, who also got 11 votes.” Maybe Watson simply got sick. Maybe he missed his plane. Who knows. Well, somebody does. But they're not talking. And this -- this secrecy, this tight-lipped arrogance -- is itself an injustice. Still, Allen missed by just a single vote and the next scheduled meeting of the Golden Era committee was scheduled for 2017. Until it wasn't. When the various veterans' committees were reformed and rejiggered, the now “Golden Days” era committee wasn't scheduled to meet until December 6, 2020. Until, again, it wasn't. Citing the pandemic, the Hall announced that it was simply impossible for the Golden Days era committee to meet in one room and hash things out. True that, but for the fact that the rest of the world had discovered the wonders of Zoom back in March. https://www.sportstalkphilly.com/2020/12/the-last-betrayal-of-dick-allen.html His number was indeed retired with as much ceremony as could be mustered by the Phillies this past season.

Edgy MD Dec 08 2020 12:40 PM Re: RIP Dick Allen, 1942-2020

Bob Watson and Dave Dombrowski are certainly still around. I'm not sure who sent Dombrowski, but maybe the reason "they" aren't talking isn't "tight-lipped arrogance," but rather that nobody's asking.

G-Fafif Dec 08 2020 12:47 PM Re: RIP Dick Allen, 1942-2020

Edgy MD wrote: Bob Watson and Dave Dombrowski are certainly still around. 1-for-2. https://www.mlb.com/news/bob-watson-obituary

G-Fafif Dec 08 2020 12:51 PM Re: RIP Dick Allen, 1942-2020

This year must have set a record for most fans losing their Favorite Players. Jayson Stark with a lovely tribute to his. So I'm writing this tribute now because Dick Allen was more than just my favorite player as a kid. He was the first favorite player I ever had. He's a big reason I fell in love with baseball. And I guess that means he had a lot to do with the path that led me to write about baseball for all these years. I'm just sorry I never had a chance to tell him thank you. https://theathletic.com/2245972/2020/12/07/stark-remembering-the-greatness-of-dick-allen-and-what-might-have-been/

Edgy MD Dec 08 2020 02:22 PM Re: RIP Dick Allen, 1942-2020

Edgy MD wrote: Bob Watson and Dave Dombrowski are certainly still around. 1-for-2. https://www.mlb.com/news/bob-watson-obituary Had a feeling as I typed. Watson and Chambliss get me crossed up all the time. We regret the error.

G-Fafif Dec 08 2020 02:28 PM Re: RIP Dick Allen, 1942-2020

Edgy MD wrote: Watson and Chambliss get me crossed up all the time. Teammates on Joe Torre's quite likable 1982-1984 Atlanta Braves.

MFS62 Dec 08 2020 03:06 PM Re: RIP Dick Allen, 1942-2020

Edgy MD wrote: Watson and Chambliss get me crossed up all the time. Teammates on Joe Torre's quite likable 1982-1984 Atlanta Braves. Likeable except the last two nouns in that sentence. Later

Marshmallowmilkshake Dec 08 2020 03:17 PM Re: RIP Dick Allen, 1942-2020

Dick Allen is going to get the Ron Santo/Leo Durocher/Marvin Miler treatment. I don't have a problem with a Veteran's Committee, because former insiders will know and see things that the writers won't. And it's not like the writers have a spotless record. But I do think there were issues with the way the committee used to operate, which seemed to be a dozen or so people getting together around a table, throwing out names with a strong personality swaying the small group. The current set up seems to be a little better.

Frayed Knot Dec 08 2020 04:08 PM Re: RIP Dick Allen, 1942-2020

Chad is onto something though about how the HoF never seems to get the 'Veterans Committee' (or whatever they're calling it this week) quite right. The makeup is in constant flux , and not just the members themselves who should change but the size of the group, the eras that they're covering, the frequency of their votes, their supposed mission, or the members themselves seem unclear as to what their mission is ... and that's before you even get to the crony-ism, the lack of transparency, and the just plain odd choices at times.

MFS62 Dec 09 2020 06:16 AM Re: RIP Dick Allen, 1942-2020

Teammates on Joe Torre's quite likable 1982-1984 Atlanta Braves. To me, the words "Joe Torre", "Atlanta Braves" and "Likeable" look wrong in the same sentence. Later

whippoorwill Dec 09 2020 06:20 AM Re: RIP Dick Allen, 1942-2020

=G-Fafif post_id=51799 time=1607372999 user_id=55] Monster slugger, ultimately beloved by two bands of fans — three, counting those of us who considered him among the coolest players of our youth,

Yep :)

G-Fafif Dec 14 2020 12:40 PM Re: RIP Dick Allen, 1942-2020

The story of the cover. Iacono was standing on the field before a game when he saw Allen enter the dugout. The photographer got closer, switching from a long lens to a short lens, and suddenly, the player gave him his shot. “All of a sudden, he started juggling,” Iacono says. “And I thought, Holy crap, this is perfect.” He thought of how Allen had bounced through baseball for the last few years. The game had been juggling him, or, perhaps, he had been juggling the challenges of the game. And, metaphor aside, it was just a damn good shot. Iacono took a few photographs of Allen on the field, too. But he was sure that the best ones had been those of him juggling. He figured that one of them would work for whatever kind of piece that the magazine was planning for the next issue. When he came into the office in New York on Monday, however, he was shocked to hear, “Congratulations. Nice cover.” “I said, ‘Cover, what are you talking about?'” Iacono recalls. “‘Dick Allen? They put him on the cover?'” Iacono ran down to the layout department to see for himself. One of the photographs of Allen juggling was indeed the cover. There was no Allen-specific feature, and in fact, hardly any baseball coverage at all. A brief piece about the “surprises of the season,” accompanied by a few pages of photographs from around the league, had just one sentence about Allen: “Nomadic and nonchalant Dick Allen (see cover), who could be almost anywhere, is now in Chicago, and surprise of surprises, he seems to like it there, hitting game-winning homers and receiving homage as the White Sox leader.” But the picture was so striking that it had been selected to lead the magazine. As Iacono looked at the cover image more closely, though, he noticed something that he'd missed before: Allen's cigarette. https://www.si.com/mlb/2020/12/12/dick-allen-iconic-cover-john-iacono