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Pedro's Compadres

Centerfield Apr 18 2006 01:36 PM

Fans having fun? Or offensive stereotype? For those that might have missed it, at Shea last night, there were a group of fans last night calling themselves "Pedro's Compadres". In "honor" of Pedro, they wore sombreros and fake moustaches. I have no doubt these fans were well-intentioned. But did they end up reinforcing an outdated and offensive stereotype? Or is it harmless fun? And aren't sombreros Mexican?

Edgy DC Apr 18 2006 01:39 PM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Apr 18 2006 01:40 PM

They should have been drinking Margaritas and wearing ammo belts across their chest. Offensive? Maybe, that's up to Pedro. I'll say that I was embarrassed.

seawolf17 Apr 18 2006 01:40 PM

I don't know about offensive, but it could have been. They looked like a bunch of fucking morons if you ask me.

Edgy DC Apr 18 2006 01:40 PM

Edgy and seawolf similarity scores shooting up.

Yancy Street Gang Apr 18 2006 01:41 PM

It's less about honoring Pedro than it's about getting on TV. Ever since the original K Korner guys got their 15 minutes, other fans have been trying to replicate that success. I agree that it's offensive and embarrassing.

Willets Point Apr 18 2006 01:43 PM

Sombrero's are Mexican. I didn't see them but it sounds like they were modeling themselves after the mascot of the (in)famous South Carolina roadside attraction South of the Border. The mascot's name is Pedro.

Edgy DC Apr 18 2006 01:47 PM

From the site's front page: BUENS DIAS, AMIGO! pedro VER' GLAD YOU COME!! pedro got 112 meelion amigos, who stay weeth heem, opp teel now all satisfy come back, send frans...thees make pedro ver' HAPPEE...like for frans come back all time...pedro hope YOU make 112 meelion and wan happee amigos! you come back soon, too, yes? Find your distance to Pedro's Ugh.

ScarletKnight41 Apr 18 2006 01:48 PM

I saw it more like trying to emulate the fans in Philly, who have had The Wolf Pack, The Padilla Flotilla, etc. More stupid than offensive, IMO.

Yancy Street Gang Apr 18 2006 01:48 PM

Jeez. What year is it again?

seawolf17 Apr 18 2006 01:52 PM

Actually, I always thought the Padilla Flotilla was really creative.

Yancy Street Gang Apr 18 2006 01:52 PM

ScarletKnight41 wrote: I saw it more like trying to emulate the fans in Philly, who have had The Wolf Pack, The Padilla Flotilla, etc. More stupid than offensive, IMO. The offensive part is in saying that all Hispanics are alike. That Dominicans might as well be Mexicans.

Edgy DC Apr 18 2006 01:56 PM

And Mexicans might as well all be comic stock characters who genially suck up to their white amigos, while they laugh at his butchering the language. Double ugh.

metirish Apr 18 2006 01:58 PM

Lets hope more fans don't show up like that when Pedro pitches.

Willets Point Apr 18 2006 01:58 PM

Yancy Street Gang wrote: ="ScarletKnight41"]I saw it more like trying to emulate the fans in Philly, who have had The Wolf Pack, The Padilla Flotilla, etc. More stupid than offensive, IMO. The offensive part is in saying that all Hispanics are alike. That Dominicans might as well be Mexicans. I agree. I doubt The Wolf Pack & Padilla Flotilla involved dressing as ethnic stereotypes. These guys could call themselves Pedro's Comprades and wear Pedro Martinez jerseys. The costumes are not necessary.

Willets Point Apr 18 2006 02:00 PM

]Find your distance to Pedro's Frankly, I'm not far enough away.

Centerfield Apr 18 2006 02:03 PM

Willets Point wrote: ="Yancy Street Gang"] ="ScarletKnight41"]I saw it more like trying to emulate the fans in Philly, who have had The Wolf Pack, The Padilla Flotilla, etc. More stupid than offensive, IMO. The offensive part is in saying that all Hispanics are alike. That Dominicans might as well be Mexicans. I agree. I doubt The Wolf Pack & Padilla Flotilla involved dressing as ethnic stereotypes. These guys could call themselves Pedro's Comprades and wear Pedro Martinez jerseys. The costumes are not necessary. It occurs to me, that if there were a group of fans calling themselves "Floyd's Homies" that came in wearing blackface, they probably wouldn't be allowed in the stadium, much less put on TV.

Yancy Street Gang Apr 18 2006 02:06 PM

I thought the same thing.

Hillbilly Apr 18 2006 02:19 PM

WP, is right on the money. These fans are likely motivated by 'Pedro' (our Ace) having the same name as 'Pedro' the mascot for south of the border. In fact Pedro's Compadres are people (suckers) that stop at south of the border (see web page linked above). Although this all quite stupid at many levels, I don't think that it's motivated by racism. As far as "Floyd's Homies" are concerned it would be more like fans showing up dressed as Floyd the barber, since he has the same name, but is of a different ethic back ground than our left-fielder. Get what I mean?

Hillbilly Apr 18 2006 02:20 PM

or 'Cliff' the postman would be a better analogy.

mlbaseballtalk Apr 18 2006 02:26 PM

Yancy Street Gang wrote: ="ScarletKnight41"]I saw it more like trying to emulate the fans in Philly, who have had The Wolf Pack, The Padilla Flotilla, etc. More stupid than offensive, IMO. The offensive part is in saying that all Hispanics are alike. That Dominicans might as well be Mexicans. I was just ready to say that! You want to run around with the Dominican Flag, play Salsa or Regga music and wear garb associated with the Caribbiean/DR (i.e. look like you are going to a casting call for the next Bob Marley & The Whalers movie or something) thats one thing, just don't use a different culture's sterotype. Thats the truely offensive part of it

Hillbilly Apr 18 2006 02:35 PM

mlbaseballtalk wrote: ="Yancy Street Gang"] ="ScarletKnight41"]I saw it more like trying to emulate the fans in Philly, who have had The Wolf Pack, The Padilla Flotilla, etc. More stupid than offensive, IMO. The offensive part is in saying that all Hispanics are alike. That Dominicans might as well be Mexicans. I was just ready to say that! You want to run around with the Dominican Flag, play Salsa or Regga music and wear garb associated with the Caribbiean/DR (i.e. look like you are going to a casting call for the next Bob Marley & The Whalers movie or something) thats one thing, just don't use a different culture's sterotype. Thats the truely offensive part of it You mean like you just did?

seawolf17 Apr 18 2006 02:35 PM

mlbaseballtalk wrote: Bob Marley & The Whalers That made me laugh. Thanks.

mlbaseballtalk Apr 18 2006 02:38 PM

Hillbilly wrote: ="mlbaseballtalk"] ="Yancy Street Gang"] ="ScarletKnight41"]I saw it more like trying to emulate the fans in Philly, who have had The Wolf Pack, The Padilla Flotilla, etc. More stupid than offensive, IMO. The offensive part is in saying that all Hispanics are alike. That Dominicans might as well be Mexicans. I was just ready to say that! You want to run around with the Dominican Flag, play Salsa or Regga music and wear garb associated with the Caribbiean/DR (i.e. look like you are going to a casting call for the next Bob Marley & The Whalers movie or something) thats one thing, just don't use a different culture's sterotype. Thats the truely offensive part of it You mean like you just did? Jamican/DR very close in cultures, different than the one in Mexican If I'm in error then I'm wrong and apologize perfusley but both are islands in the Caribbiean and I've noticed simillarities in cultures, if I'm wrong then yes that was stupid of me to say and I apologize

Hillbilly Apr 18 2006 02:45 PM

I'm looking to get into a big thing here but. Jamica and the DR aren't very simialr at all. They don't even have the same language, and the DR is not an island it's a county on an island, where Jamica is both an island and a country.

abogdan Apr 18 2006 02:51 PM

I don't want to see what D. Sanchez' fan club decides to wear to the games.

mlbaseballtalk Apr 18 2006 02:52 PM

Hillbilly wrote: I'm looking to get into a big thing here but. Jamica and the DR aren't very simialr at all. They don't even have the same language, and the DR is not an island it's a county on an island, where Jamica is both an island and a country. Then I apologize and take back the Jamacian references (Regge, ect)

Yancy Street Gang Apr 18 2006 02:56 PM

Yeah, what they should do instead is wear Castro uniforms, along with a fake beard, and carry big fat cigars. And they can sing Babalu like Desi Arnaz. Wait, now I'm doing it too, aren't I?

Centerfield Apr 18 2006 03:00 PM

I think we should be the Pedro Martinis. We'll go to games dressed like martini glasses. Or we could just drink lots of martinis and get really drunk.

Willets Point Apr 18 2006 03:04 PM

I like that. Everyone dress suavely and carry plastic martini glasses (I doubt real glass would make it past security).

Yancy Street Gang Apr 18 2006 03:09 PM

Or they could wear a large one of these on their backs:

Vic Sage Apr 18 2006 03:12 PM

they can go back to the "K Korner" idea just by using "K-Dro's Korner", and they can still hang Ks.

martin Apr 18 2006 03:40 PM

the key is intent. these cats are just dumbasses, not jerks. anyways, regardless of my ethnicity, i would love it they had martin's compadres cheering for me. or martin's drunk irishmen or martin's blackface darkie squadron or martin's stupid southern hillbillies. i mean, it is definitely stupid and embrassing, but yunno, no biggie. the pedro's martini drinkers, now that is a good idea.

mlbaseballtalk Apr 18 2006 03:42 PM

="Yancy Street Gang"]Or they could wear a large one of these on their backs: How about dressing up as big orange rock guys with 4 fingered hands Pedro's "Things"

Yancy Street Gang Apr 18 2006 03:45 PM

That guy looks familiar. If he was wearing a sombrero, however, I'd be offended.

ScarletKnight41 Apr 18 2006 03:48 PM

I love the idea of the martini glasses <g>

Elster88 Apr 18 2006 03:50 PM

Centerfield wrote: I think we should be the Pedro Martinis. We'll go to games dressed like martini glasses. Or we could just drink lots of martinis and get really drunk. Why martinis? Is he James Bond?

Hillbilly Apr 18 2006 04:09 PM

Vic Sage wrote: they can go back to the "K Korner" idea just by using "K-Dro's Korner", and they can still hang Ks. There was a group doing this too. Martin and I see this the same way. Dumbasses yes; jerks no.

ScarletKnight41 Apr 18 2006 04:10 PM

Elster88 wrote: Why martinis? Is he James Bond? No - Pedro's martinis just sounds a lot like Pedro Martinez.

Elster88 Apr 18 2006 04:16 PM

Oh. Duh. Nice.

Centerfield Apr 18 2006 04:26 PM

Someone needs to create a drink called the Pedro Martini. And it shouldn't be me, otherwise it would be a martini with a splash of beer.

Vic Sage Apr 18 2006 04:27 PM

you should make a "Pedro Martini" with rum, because rum comes from Jamaica which, apparently, is the same as the DR.

ScarletKnight41 Apr 18 2006 04:28 PM

A Blue Martini would suffice. Blue Curacao would do the trick. Blue is for the Mets, as well as for Pedro's glove. All that's left is figuring out what goes on the toothpick to replace the olive.

Vic Sage Apr 18 2006 04:29 PM

ScarletKnight41 wrote: A Blue Martini would suffice. Blue Curacao would do the trick. Blue is for the Mets, as well as for Pedro's glove. All that's left is figuring out what goes on the toothpick to replace the olive. a slice of orange, of course!

Yancy Street Gang Apr 18 2006 04:29 PM

Get a really big toothpick and you can impale a mango on it.

Edgy DC Apr 18 2006 04:31 PM

Mini baseball bats for toothpicks. Mercy, but won't we look stupid.

ScarletKnight41 Apr 18 2006 04:33 PM

Yancy Street Gang wrote: Get a really big toothpick and you can impale a mango on it. YES! That's It!

Willets Point Apr 18 2006 04:34 PM

I think a slice of mango would be more appropriate in tribute to this quote: ]I actually realized that I was somebody important, because I caught the attention of 60,000 people, plus the whole world watching a guy that if you reverse time back 15 years ago, I was sitting under a mango tree without 50 cents to pay for a bus.

Rotblatt Apr 18 2006 04:35 PM

Some more fan ideas: Duaner's Abstainers--weilding large, Mets-themed crosses with Jesus on them; lots of finger-wagging. Heil's Hitlers--trademark mustache, blue armband with Mr. Met on it. Victor's Zambonis--blue Mets ice shovels, cold weather gear, and frequent attempts to use said shovels to "resurface" aisles. Paul's Luddites--masked by Mets scarfs, the Luddites try to sneak onto the field to destroy Questec & the speed gun. David's Wright Brothers--2 fans wearing Mets hats with wings on them

Yancy Street Gang Apr 18 2006 04:37 PM

How about the Star Spangled Bannisters?

Johnny Dickshot Apr 18 2006 04:42 PM

Cliff's Divers -- Flippers, goggles, speedos, spear guns -- the whole Scuba thing. I like the Star Spangled Bannisters.

martin Apr 18 2006 04:46 PM

the doubting thomases could hold signs that say: "glavine is too old!" , "he cant keep this up!".

Diamond Dad Apr 18 2006 04:46 PM I'm rolling

Really, rolling on the floor here. How can I get any work done with brilliant stuff like this going on?? Here's the connection -- in the DR, they celebrate Mexican Night -- just like Pedro's Compadres: Man dies after winning tequila-drinking contest AZCentral.com reports (8 March 2005) from the Dominican Republic that the 21-year-old winner of a competition to drink the most tequila died and three other contestants were gravely ill in the hospital. Ricardo Ivan Garcia drank more than 50 shots of tequila at Santo Domingo's Blanc, Dance and Lounge discotheque to win the prize of $330 at a Mexican night celebration. But he took ill, was hospitalized and died within hours, apparently from heart failure brought on, you guessed it, by alcohol poisoning.

Willets Point Apr 18 2006 04:49 PM Edited 2 time(s), most recently on Apr 18 2006 04:51 PM

The Dangling Chads for Chad Bradford (attach long dangling prosthetic arms in tribute to Bradford's delivery) Oliver's Army for Darren Oliver (military uniforms) The Trashmen for Steve Traschel (dress like sanitation workers) The Dukes of Earl for LoDuca (regal attire) My Funny Valentins for Valentin (red, pink and lots of hearts) The Wright Stuff for David Wright (5 brave men dressed as NKOTB, or alternatively as astronauts)

Centerfield Apr 18 2006 04:49 PM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Apr 18 2006 04:55 PM

I think we had a thread like this a few years ago. Anyway, Glavine's crew should be called the Uncle Tom Glavines. Fans dress up like black people who have become too whitewashed or have otherwise turned their backs on the black community.

Edgy DC Apr 18 2006 04:52 PM

I'm a member of the bannister polishers.

abogdan Apr 18 2006 05:07 PM

Someone I know came up with an idea for an Aaron Heilman cheering section that would be much more offensive than Pedro's Compadres. Edit: D'oh, just noticed that Rotblatt beat me to the idea. His was the "Heil Men," though. Bit catchier name.

Johnny Dickshot Apr 18 2006 05:08 PM

Nady's Ladies would be cool -- if it was only guys doing it.

Centerfield Apr 18 2006 05:10 PM

Fan Groups and their Costumes of Choice: The Pink Floyds The Star-Spangled Bannisters The Uncle Tom Glavines

Nymr83 Apr 18 2006 05:14 PM

It's all in good fun and everyone just take this racism bull too seriously. If people showed up with fake beards and pais to cheer on a jewish ballplayer i wouldn't be offended in the slightest. as long as pedro isn't offended by it everyone else should just mind their business.

Edgy DC Apr 18 2006 05:22 PM

People mugging for TV at a Met game is the business of a Met forum. If people showed up dressed in fezzes or turbans to salute a Jewish ballplayer, you might see fit to comment.

martin Apr 18 2006 05:34 PM

anderson's coopers could dye their hair gray and go around reporting the latest news on hernandez.

Nymr83 Apr 18 2006 05:37 PM

if people showed up in turbans i'd just laugh.

Bret Sabermetric Apr 18 2006 06:37 PM

As long as they're Mets fans doing stupid, ethnically-insensitive shit, they're just dumbasses. Let them do something to rip Pedro or the Mets, though, and they'll be begging to be called only nice things like "jerks." They'd be evil demons, really, or moronic flaming shit-heads. Retarseholes, maybe. Pah, I spit on them and their retarded evil scummy ways. Make me sick, they do. Huuuuck-toooey!

Nymr83 Apr 18 2006 08:22 PM

if the player (here pedro) were offended then they'd be jerks if they continued doing it. the "wolf pack" for randy wolf was cool but all the biters around the league (and the other ones in philly) are just dumb.

Willets Point Apr 18 2006 10:04 PM

martin wrote: the doubting thomases could hold signs that say: "glavine is too old!" , "he cant keep this up!". Sign me up! I should make these signs for tomorrow's game.

Centerfield Apr 21 2006 12:04 PM

An interesting development for those of you that don't read MOFO any longer... From nickstur, friend of the Compadres: You are gonna wanna read what I'm about to write: Ddoggy is a member of pedros compadres he's my friend, and I was asked to go that night but couldn't because I had work. So everybody criticizing is obviously jealous This pedros compadres generated a lot of publicity, a lot of attraction, and isn't that a good thing? PEople come to the stadium, see the comapdres, and point and smile, it's funny why is nationality such a huge idea everywhere on everything? They should've dressed as strictly Dominicans right? Let us know what we can do to dress exactly like a Dominican. Ddoggy had the idea, and it was great...sombreros look good, so do mustaches, Pedro is latino so it wasn't totally out of plcae, nobody cares what nationality anybody is, so being offended would be retarded, and compadres is a latino term so that also fit. I know that these compadres had a **** load of fun, how could they not? Jumping up and down, getting all the attention. It's a Mets game...IT'S A GAME!!, it's supposed to be fun and they had it. I hope we do it again on his next start for anybody who doesn't have a life and spends hours a day talking about pointless garbage, u can continue to criticize. Try doing something on your own time to have fun, but make sure you don't drink too much, because then omg it's offensive to irish people, because they drink alot!!

Yancy Street Gang Apr 21 2006 12:07 PM

Oooh, he played the "get a life" card!

metirish Apr 21 2006 12:09 PM

Wht would anyone drinking too much be offensive to Irish people?

Nymr83 Apr 21 2006 12:09 PM

Yancy Street Gang wrote: Oooh, he played the "get a life" card! at which point you have to play the "you post here too" card.

Nymr83 Apr 21 2006 12:10 PM

metirish wrote: Wht would anyone drinking too much be offensive to Irish people? the people who drink too muchat ball games quickly become offensive to everyone

Centerfield Apr 21 2006 12:16 PM

And here we were thinking they were just a bunch of ignorant morons. Silly us.

Frayed Knot Apr 21 2006 01:03 PM

At least he writes real goodly and his syntax and speling r good two!

metsmarathon Apr 21 2006 01:23 PM

="Centerfield"]An interesting development for those of you that don't read MOFO any longer... From nickstur, friend of the Compadres: You are gonna wanna read what I'm about to write: Ddoggy is a member of pedros compadres he's my friend, and I was asked to go that night but couldn't because I had work. So everybody criticizing is obviously jealous This pedros compadres generated a lot of publicity, a lot of attraction, and isn't that a good thing? PEople come to the stadium, see the comapdres, and point and smile, it's funny why is nationality such a huge idea everywhere on everything? They should've dressed as strictly Dominicans right? Let us know what we can do to dress exactly like a Dominican. Ddoggy had the idea, and it was great...sombreros look good, so do mustaches, Pedro is latino so it wasn't totally out of plcae, nobody cares what nationality anybody is, so being offended would be retarded, and compadres is a latino term so that also fit. I know that these compadres had a **** load of fun, how could they not? Jumping up and down, getting all the attention. It's a Mets game...IT'S A GAME!!, it's supposed to be fun and they had it. I hope we do it again on his next start for anybody who doesn't have a life and spends hours a day talking about pointless garbage, u can continue to criticize. Try doing something on your own time to have fun, but make sure you don't drink too much, because then omg it's offensive to irish people, because they drink alot!! that doesn't even make sense. would you dress like an italian to commemorate the accomplishments of an irishman, or a ukranian? wouldn't saying "eh, its white folk, so its all the same. irish, italian, whatever" be equally stupid, and offensive to all those with brains. because stupidity is offensive.

Yancy Street Gang Apr 21 2006 01:24 PM

His point is that it's not offensive if the people who are doing the offending are having a good time.

metirish Apr 21 2006 01:29 PM

I think Yancy just summed it up perfectly......

metsmarathon Apr 21 2006 01:42 PM

oh, well, as long as they're enjoying themselves, then its perfectly ok.

Nymr83 Apr 21 2006 01:44 PM

How abou this: It's not offensive until Dominicans tell me it's offensive. Here you are a bunch of middle age white guys telling everyone what is offensive to Dominicans, lets let them make that call.

metsmarathon Apr 21 2006 01:46 PM

i'm not middle aged, and i'm half spanish. not that that makes me dominican or even remotely latino (or remotely not caucasian for that matter) ... i'm just sayin' is all.

metirish Apr 21 2006 01:48 PM

I'm Black Irish so there.

Yancy Street Gang Apr 21 2006 01:48 PM

If the Dominicans said they were offended, they'd be told to get a life, and that it's all in fun. The way to behave in society isn't to do potentially offensive things until you're told to stop. People are proud of their heritages, and to be told that being Dominican is the same as being Mexican is offensive. Whether it caused outrage or head shaking is another matter. But to pretend it's NOT offensive at all just doesn't ring true.

Nymr83 Apr 21 2006 01:49 PM

metsmarathon wrote: i'm not middle aged, and i'm half spanish. not that that makes me dominican or even remotely latino (or remotely not caucasian for that matter) ... i'm just sayin' is all. i think 99% of this board could accurately be defined as "white," i know of only three women who post, and i'm reasonably sure there are less than 5 people under 30, since i've never met any of you can tell me if i'm wrong. my point was simply that i'm not going to label this offensive when i don't know how the people who are allegedly being offended feel about it.

Nymr83 Apr 21 2006 01:53 PM

]If the Dominicans said they were offended, they'd be told to get a life, and that it's all in fun. I can't speak for anyone else, but I'd take the "it's offensive" argument seriously coming from a Dominican, I would not take it seriuosly coming from anyone else. ] The way to behave in society isn't to do potentially offensive things until you're told to stop. People are proud of their heritages, and to be told that being Dominican is the same as being Mexican is offensive. Whether it caused outrage or head shaking is another matter. But to pretend it's NOT offensive at all just doesn't ring true. according to you, who, i'm sure, are not Dominican. Get me a Dominican on here who says he's offended by "Pedro's Compadres" (you don't have to actually invite one, just find me a link or something.)

Willets Point Apr 21 2006 01:56 PM

I think we are all capable of empathy and by analogy understand why this could be offensive. Ignorance and stupidity is not just offensive Dominicans but to all of humanity.

Nymr83 Apr 21 2006 02:01 PM

It is incredible how easily you guys get bent out of shape over what you perceive as potentially offensive. A few guys wearing sombreros are now "ignorant and stupid" and "offensive to all of humanity"? get off your high horse there willets.

old original jb Apr 21 2006 02:07 PM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Apr 21 2006 02:10 PM

My take on the "Compadres" and their costumes is that their shtick is probably more stoopid than offensive. In fact it's so stupid that it's hard to take it seriously enough to be offended--which may be it's saving grace. It's the 21st Century, for crying out loud. But I wouldn't blame any Dominican or Mexican for finding it offensive and I'm sure that some will. I wonder what Pedro thinks of his unsolicited "compadres". I would speculate that, from what I've seen of his public persona, Pedro himself would be magnanimous enough to be nice about it, but I wouldn't be surprised if his private response had a lot of annoyance mixed in. Something along the lines of "I appreciate that they appreciate me, but can't they find some other way to do it?" Maybe he could find a clever way to tell them to can the sombreros. The Compadres internet defender says it's all in fun, and I'll be happy to take him at his word. To me, it isn't nearly clever enough to be that much fun. Then again, I wasn't too fond of the hardhats either. To me, the "fun" at a baseball game is, um, the baseball game. The most telling line this fellow posted was that the compadres are "gettin all the attention". Somehow I think that tells you all you need to know.

Vic Sage Apr 21 2006 02:08 PM

i don't need to produce an angy Dominican for your satisfaction. All i need is to be offended by the off-handed way these guys equate being Mexican with being Dominican because, you know, they're all Latinos, so whats the big deal... and it was all in fun, so get a life... Just like you don't need to be Jewish to eat Levy's rye bread, and you don't have to be a Quaker to eat Quaker Oats, i don't have to be a Dominican to be offended by racial insensitivity performed publicly (even if they didn't intend for it to be mean-spirited) in the spirit of having a good time. It doesn't matter if Pedro was offended. I AM offended. Or would be, if i gave much thought to it. Which, of course, doesn't mean they shouldn't do it. I tend to encourage offensive behavior, generally. But at least i don't pretend its NOT offensive.

Willets Point Apr 21 2006 02:16 PM

I don't think its a high horse to follow the golden rule - treat others how you want to be treated. I can imagine that someone behaving in a way that is stereotypical or shows an ignorance of my own culture (whether that be Irish heritage, American, New Englander, Mets fan, etc.) would not be pleasing to me, therefore seeing people behave in a way that is stereotypical of Mexicans and ignorant of Martinez's Dominican heritage is also not pleasing to me.

Nymr83 Apr 21 2006 02:16 PM

]Just like you don't need to be Jewish to eat Levy's rye bread, and you don't have to be a Quaker to eat Quaker Oats, i don't have to be a Dominican to be offended by racial insensitivity performed publicly in the spirit of having a good time. and you don't have to be Mexican to eat a Taco, but thats not the argument here at all. you DO have to be jewish to say that a caricature of a big-nosed jew is offensive and you do have to be a quaker to find something about quakers offensive (sorry can't think of any quaker stereotypes that get made fun of at the moment.) for someone else to find something offensive when persons of the nationality/race/religion that they say is being offended don't find it offensive doesn't make it offensive, it might even mean that THEY, the over-eager defender of bullshit political correctness, are in fact the ones being offensive because they don't understand the culture that they think they are defending. wow big paragraph... let me try and put that a little more succinctly... if the Mets had Sandy Koufax and a group of fans decided to be "Sandy's Chaverim ("Friends" in hebrew) and wear comical fake beards and black hats should you be offended if the jews on the board told you that they were not? i can't imagine how the answer to that could be "yes" ]I don't think its a high horse to follow the golden rule - treat others how you want to be treated and since i wouldnt be offended if people did something similiar with my culture, heck i'd be laughing it up weith them, i AM treating others as i'd like to be treated.

Elster88 Apr 21 2006 02:21 PM

Nymr83 wrote: ]Just like you don't need to be Jewish to eat Levy's rye bread, and you don't have to be a Quaker to eat Quaker Oats, i don't have to be a Dominican to be offended by racial insensitivity performed publicly in the spirit of having a good time. and you don't have to be Mexican to eat a Taco, but thats not the argument here at all. you DO have to be jewish to say that a caricature of a big-nosed jew is offensive and you do have to be a quaker to find something about quakers offensive (sorry can't think of any quaker stereotypes that get made fun of at the moment.) for someone else to find something offensive when persons of the nationality/race/religion that they say is being offended don't find it offensive doesn't make it offensive, it might even mean that THEY, the over-eager defender of bullshit political correctness, are in fact the ones being offensive because they don't understand the culture that they think they are defending. Are you kidding me? If someone says "All n--- are poor and illiterate and stupid", I can't be offended because I'm not black? Seriously, THINK about what you are saying.

old original jb Apr 21 2006 02:25 PM Edited 2 time(s), most recently on Apr 21 2006 02:28 PM

Nymr83 wrote: . let me try and put that a little more succinctly... if the Mets had Sandy Koufax and a group of fans decided to be "Sandy's Chaverim ("Friends" in hebrew) and wear comical fake beards and black hats should you be offended if the jews on the board told you that they were not? i can't imagine how the answer to that could be "yes" I'm fine with it if a non-Jew finds it offensive even if I don't. People have a right to be offended on my behalf even if I'm not. As a Jew, I'd probably have more of a fealing of queasy embarassment seeing the Compadres in their faux Orthodox garb, not for me but for them for being so stoopid. I feel a sort of sympathetic embarassment in the presence of idiots, and believe that the power of trivializing condescension is often stronger than the power of righteous indignation. Of course you do have to be careful what you choose to trivialize. And yes, I'm calling them idiots. Benign, and maybe even well intended, but still idiots. That they are sloppy with their iconography and think that I came to Shea to be entertained by them makes them so in my eyes, regardless of who or what else they may be in life.

Johnny Dickshot Apr 21 2006 02:25 PM

]Get me a Dominican on here who says he's offended by "Pedro's Compadres" (you don't have to actually invite one, just find me a link or something. Not for nothin but it might be just as easy and valid to find a Mexican offended by the association of their culture with Dominicans. All that said, and all that said above, I'm sure in their heart of hearts the New Hardhats aren't trying to be offensive and mean no harm to themselves or others, even if they cause it. They're just ignorant mooks looking to get on TV and support their guy.

Willets Point Apr 21 2006 02:30 PM

Ding ding ding! The peeeeeeeeee ceeeeeeeeeeeeee card has been played.

old original jb Apr 21 2006 02:47 PM

I do agree that you have to take into account that in their own way, these guys are really trying to pay tribute to their hero who happens to be Dominican. This greatly mitigates my offense. Intent counts; if they were Yankee fans razzing Pedro, the use of Mexican imagery would be in the service of aggression and would surely be blatantly offensive. But these are Mets fans who love Pedro almost as much as they love trying to be in the limelight. So the feeling I get is something akin to the feeling I'd have for some very poorly informed coworker who honestly thought that his Ukrainian (Eastern Orthodox) boss (whom he loves to death) would love to be presented with a giant poster of the last Pope (who was Polish). My feelings would be distributed among: 1: Sympathetic embarassment that you feel when you see someone else is making such a fool of himself that it (almost) hurts to watch. 2: The stupidity of the gesture undoes the gesture. 3: The pathway to no Xmas bonus is paved with good intentions. 4: Next time do your homework, fool. (or you are so ignorant that you deserve whatever flak comes your way no matter how well intentioned you were.)

Centerfield Apr 21 2006 02:52 PM

Except in your scenario jb, when told of his mistake by other co-workers, your baffoon would react with: "What's the big deal? Church is church. Why are people getting so bent out of shape? I'm trying to have a good time here."

old original jb Apr 21 2006 03:04 PM

And that's where I'd start feeling more condescension than either sympathetic embarassment OR righteous outrage. But given his original good intentions, I'd also hope that someone would find him a face saving way to learn what he needed to know in order to choose more appropriate gifts in the future. I'd have someone hand him a copy of "The History of the Catholic and Eastern Orthodox Church for Dummies" with the "dummies" part underlined in red. If he then kept up with the "Church is Church" bit I'd start to think that he was more an ass than a bufffoon. And I'd laugh at him really hard when the boss finally did get so offended by his stubborn clinging to ignorance that said buffoon was switched from selling bikinis in Honolulu to selling ice cubes door to door in Anchorage in December.

ScarletKnight41 Apr 21 2006 03:22 PM

jb - well stated!

TheOldMole Apr 21 2006 03:54 PM

Pretty much agree with Vic and Willets, think JB's point is important too.

Bret Sabermetric Apr 21 2006 04:32 PM

Kinda makes you be ashamed to be a Mets fan, don't it?

Centerfield Apr 21 2006 04:41 PM

It's early. There's still time for us to turn things around.

martin Apr 21 2006 05:00 PM

it would be nice if we could all lay off the tribalism and be individuals. to me, heritage, ethnicity, region, all that stuff, it is fair game to make fun of because it is insignificant. i am from a white southern christian family, but you dont see me giving a damn if these groups are disprespected or waving my flag to show how proud i am. in fact the opposite is true. christians to deserve to be taunted and mocked at every opportunity. christianity is terrible and i hate it. and nothing pleases me more than taunting of whites and southerners and americans. i don't think these things don't define me, so i dont care. so if i apply the golden rule, i should be able to taunt everyone, because i dont mind a good taunt myself. however, i realize the golden rule doesnt always apply. not everyone thinks like i do, they are tribal loyalists who give a damn about whatever random group they happen to be affiliated with. so i need a happy compromise. i realize most people don't think like me, and i am not trying to be a buzzkill for all the cavemen tribalists out there. i have to live in the world and be friends with everyone so i cant go around dropping racial slurs on everyone, even though i think that would be fun. so i keep quiet. so when other people do things that people are offending people, i never care, but i realize that sometimes if they are pissing people off they should slow it down. there is no such thing as something that is inherently offensive, but if you fond someone who is worth any respect who is angry, the polite thing to do is to tone it down, even though you know it is infantile to give a damn. life is a series of compromises.

Elster88 Apr 21 2006 05:02 PM

I think I understand now...

martin Apr 21 2006 05:05 PM

my point was, if we are gonna dance around like idiots and be pedros compadres, we are not doing anything wrong other than acting like dummies, but if people whine loud enough, you gotta quit. you have to make allowances for people and their stupid tribalism. there is nothing wrong with being an ignorant jerkass. the problem is with the people who are offended. but that doesnt mean you shouldnt quit when they ask.