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I'm Being Unfair to Victor Zambrano

Centerfield Apr 19 2006 10:59 AM

But I can't help it. I scream at the TV more when Zambrano pitches than all the others combined. I yell at him for falling behind batters, I yell at him for throwing meatballs, I yell at him for letting Andruw Jones beat him, I yell at him for giving up runs to Adam freakin' LaRoche. I just don't like him. Last night, I tried to figure out why. 1. The Kazmir trade. Not just the part where we gave up Kazmir, I can live with that to an extent. What kills me is that if we were willing to give up Kazmir, we probably could have gotten a front-line guy for him. We may have been able to convince Beane to give up Hudson or Mulder. I still remember seeing "Mets trade P Kazmir to Devil Rays for P V.Zambrano" on the scroll of ESPN News and shreiking in horror. I prayed it was a typo and at the very least we had gotten Carlos Zambrano. Every time I see Zambrano, I curse him for not being Kazmir, Hudson, Mulder or Carlos Zambrano. 2. The Seo/Benson Trades. I can't believe that out of the guys we had last year, Zambrano was one of the guys we chose to keep. Seo was sent to Norfolk, and eventually traded. Benson was shipped out for junk. Meanwhile, Zambrano gets chance after chance after chance. It's like the organization needs him to improve to save face from the Kazmir trade. Every time I see Zambrano, I curse him because the Mets traded Seo and Benson. 3. Heilman in the Pen. I think Aaron Heilman could be a pretty good starter. At least better than Zambrano. But because Aaron is so effective in the pen, this guy gets the ball every five days. Every time I see Zambrano I curse him for not being as good as I think Heilman would be. 4. He just looks like a loser. He looks defeated...he looks lost. I swear he has the same clueless expression that George W. Bush wears so often. I feel like he doesn't get it. Like he's just not bright enough to figure it out. I don't know. I just don't like Victor Zambrano.

Yancy Street Gang Apr 19 2006 11:03 AM

Of all the reasons listed, number 4 is the only one that might be a valid one for disliking Zambrano. The first three are all decisions made by others, that Zambrano bears no responsibility for.

Centerfield Apr 19 2006 11:06 AM

Actually, I thought number 4 was a pretty lame reason too. That's why I say I'm being unfair to him. But I was asking myself last night why I feel so much ire to him, and being honest, this is what I came up with.

metirish Apr 19 2006 11:15 AM

I've read before that Zambrano is extreamly shy but Klapisch had this to say about him today.... ] There are a million reasons Zambrano should make Met officials nervous, not the least of which is his lifelessness on and off the field. He's shy almost to the point of social paralysis, barely speaking to his teammates.

Yancy Street Gang Apr 19 2006 11:21 AM

I think that should be the least of it. If he throws goose eggs from the mound, but is shy in the clubhouse, nobody's going to care. Except for sportswriters.

metirish Apr 19 2006 11:22 AM

Agreed,but maybe he just hates it in NY and doesn't have a friend, I'm trying to turn him into a sympathy figure.

Elster88 Apr 19 2006 11:23 AM

Irish, your quote is code for, "Zambrano never says anything interesting and doesn't speak English well, so I have to resort to actually reporting on the game instead of just pasting a long quote in the middle of the article to help me hit my word quota."

metirish Apr 19 2006 11:26 AM

Yeah maybe that's it Elster, Klapisch and Heyman must have sat next to each other last night because they wrote the same article, Jon Harper too.

Centerfield Apr 19 2006 11:33 AM

If Zambrano is as shy as they say, that's a pretty bad job by Duquette and company. Knowing what they know about fans, and the media, if they traded Kazmir, the guy coming back was going to have an incredible amount of pressure on him...fair or unfair. It seems like Duke managed to find the guy least equipped to shoulder that burden.

RealityChuck Apr 19 2006 11:48 AM

Most of Zambrano's problems are not his doing: the Kazmir trade, the "fix in ten minutes" comment, the fact that the team didn't trade him (he probably didn't have much trade value anyway, which is more his doing), Aaron Heilman in the pen, his personality. But he hasn't been pitching well and doesn't seem able to handle NYC. The Mets keep giving him a chance because they traded Kazmir for him (that's the part most like George Bush: when he makes a mistake, he continues that policy not matter how disastrous it is).

Edgy DC Apr 19 2006 11:51 AM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Apr 19 2006 01:46 PM

To Hell with "shy almost to the point of social paralysis." That's Klapisch feeding the beast by spinning negative character traits onto a guy the fans want to hate this morning anyhow. Now we don't have to feel bad about hating him, because he's such a wimp. Write about his shyness the day before he pitchees maybe. This is Klapish.

ScarletKnight41 Apr 19 2006 12:02 PM

Centerfield wrote: If Zambrano is as shy as they say, that's a pretty bad job by Duquette and company. Knowing what they know about fans, and the media, if they traded Kazmir, the guy coming back was going to have an incredible amount of pressure on him...fair or unfair. It seems like Duke managed to find the guy least equipped to shoulder that burden. The shyness is the least of it. One of the few really interesting facts I got out of the Adam Rubin book was that Duquette was upset that the Tampa Bay GM misled him about Zambrano's health prior to the trade. How can you make a trade based on the other GM's representations? You need to do your own due diligence, including having your own doctors check the guy out first. I don't blame Zambrano - I actually feel really sorry for the guy. Which doesn't mean that I want him on my team. But I can't boo him - it seems too much like kicking a sad puppy dog.

Farmer Ted Apr 19 2006 12:18 PM

You can't compare W to Zambrano. W has two wins under his belt.

Frayed Knot Apr 19 2006 12:37 PM

There is a certain amount of trust that is supposed to exist among GMs where they at least try not to be unethical with each other concerning things like player health. Yes, you still have your own doctors check out the guy (no trade goes through w/o it) but a physical can only tell you so much and I get the idea that the TB guys were less than honest concerning Zambrano's history leading up to the trade. That the TB crew (now being replaced w/new ownership) were considered somewhat as pariahs within MLB circles was probably the biggest caution sign that Duquette ignored while making that deal. I think it all probably goes back to the fact that the decision to deal for Zambrano seems to have been so set in stone that they then agreed to whatever conditions it took to make it - including ignoring who they were dealing with.

metsmarathon Apr 19 2006 01:14 PM

i hate that in new york, shyness, it seems, is a deep character flaw.

RealityChuck Apr 19 2006 01:36 PM

Farmer Ted wrote: You can't compare W to Zambrano. W has two wins under his belt. In the same time period, Zambrano has 44, including nine as a Met. But still, it's good zinger.

ABG Apr 19 2006 01:38 PM

CF's post hits the nail on the head for me. Pretty spot on about what I was thinking last night.

Bret Sabermetric Apr 19 2006 02:33 PM

Seems fair enough.

MFS62 Apr 19 2006 07:21 PM

So, can we conclude that his performance can be traced to a severe case of Jeff Weaver Syndrome? The symptoms include good stuff, and an ability to pitch well elsewhere. The only known potential cure (not always successful) is a trade away from New York. Later

Frayed Knot Apr 19 2006 08:18 PM

="MFS62"]So, can we conclude that his performance can be traced to a severe case of Jeff Weaver Syndrome? The symptoms include good stuff, and an ability to pitch well elsewhere. The only known potential cure (not always successful) is a trade away from New York. I don't buy any of that. First of all, it's not like Zambrano (or Weaver for that matter) are/were great on the road while only lousy at home. And while I suspect the oft-used stereotype of someone who's a good player but just not a good New York player probably exists but it does so to a much lesser extent than is generally portrayed. Slapping that label on a player with a derisive growl of; 'yeah that shit may play in Peoria hayseed but dis is da Big Apple', is usually done by NY-ers in order to make themselves feel superior by bragging about how much higher the standards are here. With Weaver the NYY brass did just that as a way of immunizing themselves from the decision that they themselves made. When they got him they were sure they bagged an up-and-coming pitcher right on the cusp of a breakout - and were only too proud to say so - but they were wrong. By deriding him simply as someone who couldn't play Broadway was their attempt to say that they still made the correct call just simply had no way of knowing ntil it was too late how his act would play on the big stage. It just wasn't their fault can't you see? They did the same with Vazquez. Zambrano's problem is that he hasn't been good enough/often enough to justify either the trade that brought him here or the faith that the front office apparantly still has in him. Maybe he'll get out of it and prove them all correct but I highly doubt it's simply a NYC thing at this point.

Edgy DC Apr 19 2006 08:20 PM

I don't know why we conclude that.

Bret Sabermetric Apr 20 2006 09:54 AM Re: I'm Being Unfair to Victor Zambrano

Centerfield wrote: 1. The Kazmir trade. Not just the part where we gave up Kazmir, I can live with that to an extent. What kills me is that if we were willing to give up Kazmir, we probably could have gotten a front-line guy for him. We may have been able to convince Beane to give up Hudson or Mulder. I still remember seeing "Mets trade P Kazmir to Devil Rays for P V.Zambrano" on the scroll of ESPN News and shreiking in horror. I prayed it was a typo and at the very least we had gotten Carlos Zambrano. Every time I see Zambrano, I curse him for not being Kazmir, Hudson, Mulder or Carlos Zambrano. Yup. Even if the trade works out, I hate it. I hate labelling a prospect "No way, no day, maybe he'll be a MLB pitcher someday but we need wins now, so we'll acquire this wretched piece of dung and throw him out there every five days and, if we've fucked up, by the time people realize we've fucked up, we'll have been long since fired anyway." Centerfield wrote: 2. The Seo/Benson Trades. I can't believe that out of the guys we had last year, Zambrano was one of the guys we chose to keep. Seo was sent to Norfolk, and eventually traded. Benson was shipped out for junk. Meanwhile, Zambrano gets chance after chance after chance. It's like the organization needs him to improve to save face from the Kazmir trade. Every time I see Zambrano, I curse him because the Mets traded Seo and Benson. Pure CYA to keep Victor In-name-only. Would you rather have Wiggy now or Julio? How did spending a few million on Benson's salary to make the Wiggy/Julio transition work out for you? Centerfield wrote: 3. Heilman in the Pen. I think Aaron Heilman could be a pretty good starter. At least better than Zambrano. But because Aaron is so effective in the pen, this guy gets the ball every five days. Every time I see Zambrano I curse him for not being as good as I think Heilman would be. He's out there because of all the other stuff, not how he's a better pitcher than Heilman. If I were Heliman, I'd be pissed off big time, losing a spot in the rotation to this chunk of dog doody. Centerfield wrote: 4. He just looks like a loser. He looks defeated...he looks lost. I swear he has the same clueless expression that George W. Bush wears so often. I feel like he doesn't get it. Like he's just not bright enough to figure it out. I don't know. I just don't like Victor Zambrano. Who does?

MFS62 Apr 20 2006 10:40 AM

Frayed Knot wrote: Zambrano's problem is that he hasn't been good enough/often enough to justify either the trade that brought him here or the faith that the front office apparantly still has in him. Maybe he'll get out of it and prove them all correct but I highly doubt it's simply a NYC thing at this point. Fair points. That's why I asked. Later

Centerfield Apr 20 2006 08:35 PM

You know, it doesn't help that Kazmir is mowing down Red Sox on ESPN 2.

Centerfield Apr 20 2006 08:43 PM

On the other hand, Manny is hitting .245 with no home runs. Imagine if he was doing that for the Mets after trading Milledge? New York might have imploded.