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Tired of it

Johnny Dickshot Apr 17 2006 11:56 AM

I'm tired of the petty sniping between KC and Bret and I'm appalled seeing dudes publish shit just to get their post counts up. This forum is turning to complete shit.

seawolf17 Apr 17 2006 11:58 AM

Agreed. I don't even know what to post any more, because it seems like every thread degenerates into a bitchfest. That's why I don't visit the ESPN boards, because that's what every discussion is. I'm not exactly a CPF veteran -- I've been around about a year and a half -- but this is really starting to suck.

KC Apr 17 2006 12:20 PM

You have no idea how tired I am of it too. You can't begin to imagine.

metirish Apr 17 2006 01:29 PM

I feel like Dickshot and SeaWolf, the forum is not fun lately.

KC Apr 17 2006 02:16 PM

I don't know what to tell youse except that I will personally stop with the nonsense. If there are other issues, take 'em up with each poster.

metsmarathon Apr 17 2006 03:16 PM

i got sucked in, and i'm an idiot for it.

Frayed Knot Apr 17 2006 04:12 PM

We're not posting well as a forum right now.

Elster88 Apr 17 2006 05:02 PM

We're battling.

Willets Point Apr 17 2006 05:11 PM

You don't know how good you have it.

Rockin' Doc Apr 17 2006 11:32 PM

The forum has been through far worse than this. It will weather this storm and ultimately be better for having done so. Bret does make some good points, but he generally has a "me against the CPF" mentality. Truthfully, I believe the joy is in the arguing for him.

KC Apr 18 2006 06:51 AM

Let's not dilute Bret's online behavior over the last five years into just sniping and arguing and whatever too much. I've never been treated more nastily by another human being in my entire life and I've known a lot of pricks.

Yancy Street Gang Apr 18 2006 10:08 AM

We all come equipped with our own ignore feature, which, with practice, we can learn to master. Edgy seems to have done this, and while he's been accused of cowardice because of it, I can only see it as wisdom and maturity. Having said that, Bret does come up with some interesting questions or observations. (I liked the one about Pedro sharing his knowledge.) When he's rational, I personally don't hesitate to respond to him. It's when things get crazy and accusatory and distorted that I disengage. (Although a few times I've posted pictures of someone rolling their eyes.) I'd advise anyone who enjoys that level of discourse to continue to go toe-to-toe with him. And if you don't, don't. There's no need to defend the Mets to him, or Mets fandom, or the CPF population against charges that you don't feel have any merit. Just roll your eyes.

cooby Apr 18 2006 10:22 AM

You mean you haven't figured out yet that everything he says, no matter how innocent it seems, has an agenda? I've gotten so fed up that I have been posting here this week: http://www.nysportsday.com/themofo/ At least it's a temporary escape

KC Apr 18 2006 10:24 AM

I'm happy you all chimed in and I understand. It's good to clear some air from time to time. I wouldn't change sides of the street if I saw Sal coming, but I do from time to time get very frustrated with how low he can take things. I guess part of the frustration is that I like the big windbag. (oops, lug)

ABG Apr 18 2006 10:56 AM

My posting and reading has diminished tremendously over the past few months. Mostly its because while I can ignore posts and posters, I can't ignore the fact that every thread becomes a ridiculous pissing match. I called for it once, I'll call for it again. There's a simple solution to this problem--ban Bret. He's not worth the trouble.

KC Apr 18 2006 11:07 AM

Well if people are posting elsewhere and avoiding here because of him, he's won. I'm sure he'd like nothing more than to see this place implode.

Iubitul Apr 18 2006 11:09 AM

cooby wrote: You mean you haven't figured out yet that everything he says, no matter how innocent it seems, has an agenda? I've gotten so fed up that I have been posting here this week: http://www.nysportsday.com/themofo/ At least it's a temporary escape Anybody else see the irony here? Less Cooby is definitely a bad thing.

Elster88 Apr 18 2006 11:25 AM

ABG wrote: I called for it once, I'll call for it again. There's a simple solution to this problem--ban Bret. He's not worth the trouble. I have to agree at this point. I'm getting sick of it. Maybe it's my fault for getting to into it. But I enjoy posting here, and now I'm being ridiculed for posting in regards to predictions that I made about the players on my favorite team in my favorite sport. [url]http://cybermessageboard.ehost.com/getalife/viewtopic.php?p=70238#70238[/url]

cooby Apr 18 2006 11:30 AM

Well, thank you Iubitul (I even spelled it right!) Believe me, it is just a temporary thing, as they say it's a nice place to visit but... But when I logged in here on Saturday or Sunday or Monday or whenever it was and the entire first page was a bunch of random capital letters with no apparent meaning and the entire second page was "you guys are stupid and I'm not" threads, I knew it was time for a small break. You guys do what you want, keep answering him and he'll keep at it, I've been ignoring him for two years and it works for me but I guess there will always be new people here who don't know how to do that, so he's set for life.

cooby Apr 18 2006 11:32 AM

] Maybe it's my fault for getting to into it. No, Elster, it's not your fault. That's just his way. We've all fallen for it, myself included. It takes a lot less effort to click on to the next thread than to try to argue with him.

seawolf17 Apr 18 2006 11:33 AM

The only problem is that it seems like every single thread is ruined.

metirish Apr 18 2006 11:38 AM

That's a huge problem though...

mlbaseballtalk Apr 18 2006 12:17 PM

cooby wrote: But when I logged in here on Saturday or Sunday or Monday or whenever it was and the entire first page was a bunch of random capital letters with no apparent meaning That was me trying to do Edgy's "spell out words with posts" thing with B-E-A-T-T-H-E-B-R-A-V-E-S Just being goofy I guess JD, I was joking a bit with the post count bit, but I do enjoy seeing whos next every ten posts. I'll cut down on that though

cooby Apr 18 2006 12:30 PM

Ah, well by the time I saw it it was pretty jumbled, so at least that explains that.

Yancy Street Gang Apr 18 2006 01:06 PM

mlbaseballtalk wrote: ="cooby"] But when I logged in here on Saturday or Sunday or Monday or whenever it was and the entire first page was a bunch of random capital letters with no apparent meaning That was me trying to do Edgy's "spell out words with posts" thing with B-E-A-T-T-H-E-B-R-A-V-E-S Just being goofy I guess JD, I was joking a bit with the post count bit, but I do enjoy seeing whos next every ten posts. I'll cut down on that though I think those alphabet posts should be deleted because they offer no value, just clutter.

metsmarathon Apr 18 2006 01:25 PM

i had a hard time figuring out what all those letters meant. the best i could come up with was "the eva stabber" and "be a vets breath" and neither of those made a lick of sense to me.

seawolf17 Apr 18 2006 01:54 PM

mlbaseballtalk wrote: I do enjoy seeing whos next every ten posts. Dude, just check the list. It's in the rankings forum.

mlbaseballtalk Apr 18 2006 02:21 PM

seawolf17 wrote: ="mlbaseballtalk"]I do enjoy seeing whos next every ten posts. Dude, just check the list. It's in the rankings forum. Good point [shakes head at own stupid goofiness]

cooby Apr 18 2006 05:07 PM

Well, it wasn't that big of a deal, you meant well and you just got carried away with your Mets inspired glee. But don't do it again! :) Maybe we don't need so much to ask Bret to leave as we need to just ask Bret to be nice.

metirish Apr 18 2006 06:36 PM

When Mrs Payson speaks people should listen.

Vic Sage Apr 19 2006 04:20 PM

IMO there should be only a few banishable offenses: * trolling (coming here as the fan of another team just to pick fights and create a hostile environment) * flaming / stalking (constantly stalking a poster with ad hominem attacks) * over-posting (putting up a ton of redundant threads to overload the board or push an agenda, thus constantly pushing all relevant Mets posting to back pages) * improper emailing (sending threatening or spamming emails to posters) * admin abuse (those who run this board for free don't need to put up with any shit that they don't need to put up with. However, this basis for banning is ripe for petty tyranny so its application should be carefully considered) * improper posting (racist, obscene, infringing or viral posts - though i've got no problem with offensive posts personally, i can understand why admins might want to monitor that stuff. Like admin abuse, however, it requires restraint in its application) IMO, Bret is not a troll. He's a disillusioned Mets fan. He usually makes Mets-related posts that raise good questions. If he posts in a way that offends you, just move along. If he's making personal attacks, its because he's feeling personally attacked. I'm not saying his feelings are justified (I don't think they are), but they are not the arbitrary and purposely disruptive posts of a troll. I, too, have been an ocasional target of his ranting, but I really don't get the big deal here. Folks just need a thicker skin, and more self-restraint in their willingness to respond to his provocations. Just deal with his baseball-related points or, if he bothers you, ignore him entirely. And the only "ignore" function we need is the one KC referred to... the one between our ears. If threads degenerate into pure flamewars, they can be moved to the redlight district.

metsmarathon Apr 19 2006 06:46 PM

Vic Sage wrote: IMO there should be only a few banishable offenses: * trolling (coming here as the fan of another team just to pick fights and create a hostile environment) if you're a met fan, are you free to come here just to pick fights and create a hostile atmosphere?

Rockin' Doc Apr 19 2006 07:13 PM

I thought that Bret had sworn off the Mets and pledged his allegiance to the Red Sox. If this is true, then he technically is not a Mets fan. He is at best a former Mets fan. I personally haven't had any major problems with Bret, but it does concern me that so many others have. I would hate to see the actions of one individual possibly cause several CPF members greatly curtial their participation on the forum, or worse still, leave.

ABG Apr 19 2006 07:25 PM

I'm not going to expound on whether or not Bret is to blame for all of the fights he gets into in an overwhelming number of threads. I do belive that his presence causes these fights. And I know that his going away solves the problem--such as it has during this, one of his predictable self-imposed and temporary shrink-away when the heat turns on. Cause/effect? Probably. Problem/solution? Definitely.

Bret Sabermetric Apr 20 2006 07:11 AM

ABG wrote: And I know that his going away solves the problem--such as it has during this, one of his predictable self-imposed and temporary shrink-away when the heat turns on. . Anus Breathe Groupie, I think I "went away" for all of 24 hours (Sunday at 8 a.m. through Monday at 8 a.m.), the "shrink-away" coinciding with a trip upstate rather than the "heat" turning on. You really think a lot of yourselves, don't you? Yeah, I got scared because I'd stirred up too much trouble this time. You're a bunch of bigots, is what you are. You like hanging around with your own kind, saying nasty things you'd never have the guts to say to anyone's face (certainly not a Yankee fan or Brave fan bigger than you), and you like having the freedom to say stupid shit about the Mets because you know no one will challenge your prejudiced and usually illogical points of view. This is fanship? You might as well wear a hood and carry a burning cross for ID purposes. I'm glad to see this attack on me being brought up in the Red Light forum, though. I find it interesting that I've asked KC politely on numerous occasions to take his personal attacks on me to the Red Light forum, and he's refused, insisting on shitting up thread after thread after thread with non-baseball character assassination attempts, and none of you (even now) had the guts to tell him to do so. Instead, as he shitted up thread after thread, you all pretty much let him to do it and let it go on, while blaming ME for the constant arguments that were mainly KC's responsibility. You ever hear the joke that ends "Fight fair, nigger, fight fair!"? It's about self-righteous bigots re-inforcing their own screwed up majority beliefs, not that I'd expect many of you to see yourselves in that story. Oh, for all those of you eager to miss my point: i'm not black, I'm not saying that I am, and I'm not making being a former Mets fans on a Mets forum out to be as dire as being a black person in the Deep South in the 1930s. But bigotry is still is bigotry, and you need to examine your own behavior. Johnny D: Don't you agree that posting this stuff in the Red Light Forum is appropriate? Then why didn't you chime in once to tell KC that you agreed with me that this was a good place to have such discussions? Because agreeing with me makes you look bad in front of all your pals? That might take a pair of balls. Grow some. And Anus Breath Groupie: You do realize that what you've written above is the quintessential rationale for blaming the victim, don't you? "I'm not going to expound on whether or not Negroes are to blame for all of the fights they get into in an overwhelming number of cities. I do belive that their presence causes these fights. And I know that their going away solves the problem." So that's your answer? Send me back to Africa? Or maybe you prefer an anti-Semitic analogy? "I'm not going to expound on whether or not the Jews are to blame for all of the pogroms they get into in an overwhelming number of ghettos. I do belive that their presence causes these pogroms. And I know that their going away to concentration camps will solve the problem." Or maybe an anti-Christian analogy will work for you? "I'm not going to expound on whether or not Jesus is to blame for all of the dissent he gets get into in an overwhelming number of Jerusalem neighborhoods. I do belive that his presence causes this dissent. And I know that their crucifying him will solve the problem." Yes, folks, it would be a better world if everyone agreed with us, and we should all work our hardest to rid the world of those who don't. Happy Easter and Passover to all.

Johnny Dickshot Apr 20 2006 08:20 AM

I posted to say I was sick and tired of you and KC going at it in nearly every thread and that the flooding of nonsense posts and non-argument arguments from ml had basically made a mess of the whole page. I did not place any blame on you alone. I think KC should put a sock in it and stick to baseball in the baseball forum and I think your practice of weaving a broad message of victimization and insult into nearly every baseball observation you make ought to have stopped months ago and is just the kind of bait that attracts the worst in many of us. And I have asked you both to put a lid on it before.

Bret Sabermetric Apr 20 2006 08:33 AM

I realize that, and I appreciate it. I don't enjoy needing to point out how I'm being piled on incessantly either, and I think the obvious way to stop that would be to stop piling on me in the baseball threads. If you disagree (as you do, Johnny) about my take on Matsui, then say so (and you have) and I'll respond to it (as I have) and neither of us needs to insult the other. What I was asking you was why you didn't point out to KC that he could have taken his personal issues with me to this Forum and kept out of everyone's face. I was asking him to do that, and he was insisting on his god-given right to shit up thread after thread after thread of the Baseball Forum. I think this Forum is the perfect place to discuss personal issues, and I'll engage in that here, if perople want to engage me, but KC seems to think that the Forum rules don't apply to him. And they don't, unless people other than me tell him about posting in the appropriate forum.

Johnny Dickshot Apr 20 2006 08:44 AM

I guess I was just hoping it you two reasonable men would stop, didn't wanna appear as if I were taking sides, etc. To me it's more troubling that it's taking place at all, never mind on which page. And really, if you took the care to leave the insults and broadswipes out of your initial arguments -- or reserve such messages for here I suppose -- the whole need wouldn't arise nearly as much.

ABG Apr 20 2006 09:20 AM

Bret Sabermetric wrote: ="ABG"]And I know that his going away solves the problem--such as it has during this, one of his predictable self-imposed and temporary shrink-away when the heat turns on. . Anus Breathe Groupie, I think I "went away" for all of 24 hours (Sunday at 8 a.m. through Monday at 8 a.m.), the "shrink-away" coinciding with a trip upstate rather than the "heat" turning on. You really think a lot of yourselves, don't you? Yeah, I got scared because I'd stirred up too much trouble this time. You're a bunch of bigots, is what you are. You like hanging around with your own kind, saying nasty things you'd never have the guts to say to anyone's face (certainly not a Yankee fan or Brave fan bigger than you), and you like having the freedom to say stupid shit about the Mets because you know no one will challenge your prejudiced and usually illogical points of view. This is fanship? You might as well wear a hood and carry a burning cross for ID purposes. I'm glad to see this attack on me being brought up in the Red Light forum, though. I find it interesting that I've asked KC politely on numerous occasions to take his personal attacks on me to the Red Light forum, and he's refused, insisting on shitting up thread after thread after thread with non-baseball character assassination attempts, and none of you (even now) had the guts to tell him to do so. Instead, as he shitted up thread after thread, you all pretty much let him to do it and let it go on, while blaming ME for the constant arguments that were mainly KC's responsibility. You ever hear the joke that ends "Fight fair, nigger, fight fair!"? It's about self-righteous bigots re-inforcing their own screwed up majority beliefs, not that I'd expect many of you to see yourselves in that story. Oh, for all those of you eager to miss my point: i'm not black, I'm not saying that I am, and I'm not making being a former Mets fans on a Mets forum out to be as dire as being a black person in the Deep South in the 1930s. But bigotry is still is bigotry, and you need to examine your own behavior. Johnny D: Don't you agree that posting this stuff in the Red Light Forum is appropriate? Then why didn't you chime in once to tell KC that you agreed with me that this was a good place to have such discussions? Because agreeing with me makes you look bad in front of all your pals? That might take a pair of balls. Grow some. And Anus Breath Groupie: You do realize that what you've written above is the quintessential rationale for blaming the victim, don't you? "I'm not going to expound on whether or not Negroes are to blame for all of the fights they get into in an overwhelming number of cities. I do belive that their presence causes these fights. And I know that their going away solves the problem." So that's your answer? Send me back to Africa? Or maybe you prefer an anti-Semitic analogy? "I'm not going to expound on whether or not the Jews are to blame for all of the pogroms they get into in an overwhelming number of ghettos. I do belive that their presence causes these pogroms. And I know that their going away to concentration camps will solve the problem." Or maybe an anti-Christian analogy will work for you? "I'm not going to expound on whether or not Jesus is to blame for all of the dissent he gets get into in an overwhelming number of Jerusalem neighborhoods. I do belive that his presence causes this dissent. And I know that their crucifying him will solve the problem." Yes, folks, it would be a better world if everyone agreed with us, and we should all work our hardest to rid the world of those who don't. Happy Easter and Passover to all. Nicely done. Anyway, this place would be better if you were gone, as it is when you're not around. That's my point.

KC Apr 20 2006 09:26 AM

Insterted sock Monday, today is day four. I think things are going well.

Bret Sabermetric Apr 20 2006 10:14 AM

Johnny Dickshot wrote: IAnd really, if you took the care to leave the insults and broadswipes out of your initial arguments -- or reserve such messages for here I suppose -- the whole need wouldn't arise nearly as much. I agree. But insults are pretty widely practiced on the CPF, no? And foul language is pretty widely accepted, no? (Look no further than the routinely accepted tag "MFY" for an example of both together,) You're saying that only I should conduct myself in a more dignified way? Why should I? Because of all the love and acceptance that comes my way? I'm probably less insulting and less vulgar than many CPFers--certainly I'm less sanctimonious than Edgy, who this morning opined what "boobirds" should and shouldn't do. Nice technique: Label people with a dehumanizing and pejorative label and mandate behavior for them because your own chosen behavior is different. That's not insulting? It's practically a definition of "insulting." But that's not going to get a single response, because it's normative CPF rhetoric, which I'm pretty consistent with. OE: I noticed my sig line on posting. KC gets to call my posts full of crap from the past, as if virtually all of CPF threads aren't focussed on things that happened in the past. But you want me to respond to his posts as if he were decorous and temperate to me? It doesn't work like that. Usually, what I do is what i've done here: quote people's own words back to them and get attacked for doing so.

Johnny Dickshot Apr 20 2006 01:02 PM

]But insults are pretty widely practiced on the CPF, no? No. I wouldn't say widely. ]And foul language is pretty widely accepted, no? (Look no further than the routinely accepted tag "MFY" for an example of both together,) --Nobody oughta be insulted by that. Besides the Yankees are motherfuckers. It's been proven clinically, medically, mathematically and scientifically. ]You're saying that only I should conduct myself in a more dignified way? --No for the third time in this very thread I'm saying lots of people should, you included. KC seems to have done so without an ugly fight. ]Why should I? --Because I think the deliberately antagonistic stances you tend to take tend to result in hurt feelings and take a lot of fun out of the board -- even if they are not all your fault. Also, it apparently is causing some regular folks to come around less often and is probably discouraging new folks from coming in. Personally, I also think it obscures many of your better points. ]Because of all the love and acceptance that comes my way? --No. But I think you'd be surprised at the reactions you'd get by saying for example, “I believe the Mets are giving Kaz Matsui an unfair advantage in the battle for second base,” as opposed to “I think the Mets are giving Kaz Matsui an unfair advantage in the battle for second base and if you people weren’t blind pajama-wearing thumb-sucking mark imbeciles who only want to silence dissent in your blue-and-orange fantasyland you'd see it.” If you crave and love and respect, or even a good argument, why not try and argue the first one only. ]I'm probably less insulting and less vulgar than many CPFers--certainly I'm less sanctimonious than Edgy, who this morning opined what "boobirds" should and shouldn't do. Nice technique: Label people with a dehumanizing and pejorative label and mandate behavior for them because your own chosen behavior is different. That's not insulting? It's practically a definition of "insulting." --Even if this were a point I agreed with, and I don't, it ought not excuse your behavior. ]But that's not going to get a single response, because it's normative CPF rhetoric, which I'm pretty consistent with. --Isn't that because you've insisted on playing the role of fallen angel among us?

MFS62 Apr 20 2006 02:37 PM

Has anyone noticed that folks have been more civil in this thread in the Red Light Forum than they have been in posts on the baseball board? All the more reason why I feel this is the more appropriate place for such things. Maybe its the time it takes someone to hit the "back" button out of a baseball thread/ forum and enter a new forum that gives tempers time to cool down a bit while thoughts are collected. As for me, I remember Yogi Berra's quote: "When you come to a fork in the road, take it". When I come to a point in a thread where it seems it has deteriorated into another name-calling session, I take the road out of that thread and go on to the next one. Who knows? I may have missed some brilliant posts by doing that. But fighting through the invective just isn't worth it to me. As for banning someone, I still believe that all opinions should be heard. And even opinions that we don't all agree with should be valued and discussed. Yeah, call me Pollyanna. But maybe, just maybe, when that discussion is about the person rather than the opinion itself, this is the better place for it. Later

Bret Sabermetric Apr 20 2006 02:50 PM

I certainly don't feel like rewarding Edgy for his cowardice by being nicer to him since he started playing "nah-nah-nah-nah I can't hear you" with his fingers in his ears. Fuck him. He's a punk, and I'll treat him like the chickenshit punk he is. And fuck KC too--I'll continue to use words however I like, and however much he doesn't like getting tangled in my webbery of rhetoric. You don't get better behavior by behaving like a punk, and I feel zero obligation to be civil to people who declare me to be beneath their contempt. "KC seems to have done so [behaved with dignity"] without an ugly fight" You kidding with that? Do you mean the part where he called me every name in the book over the last few weeks. or the part where he anmnounced he's ceasing talking to me (except when he wants to get a wisecrack in)? KC's showed all the class of a loud fart during a funeral.

MFS62 Apr 20 2006 02:53 PM

]Has anyone noticed that folks have been more civil in this thread in the Red Light Forum than they have been in posts on the baseball board? Well, so much for that comment. LOL! Later

soupcan Apr 24 2006 03:18 PM

Wow. Guess I picked a good week to go away.

old original jb Apr 26 2006 02:31 PM

I recently took the bait and have been paying ever since, but I have a suggestion. People can take on the role of extracting baseball content from personal invective and agenda pushing by restating worthwhile points from otherwise incendiary posts, and in so doing redirect the forum toward civility without stifling baseball debate or having to ban anyone. Using Johnny's example, suppose someone writes something like “I think the Mets are giving Kaz Matsui an unfair advantage in the battle for second base and if you people weren’t blind pajama-wearing thumb-sucking mark imbeciles who only want to silence dissent in your blue-and-orange fantasyland you'd see it.” A second poster can write something along the lines of: "What I think our highly motivated friend was trying to say is that he believes the Mets are giving Kaz Matsui an unfair advantage in the battle for second base." The cogent baseball point can then be extracted from the invective and agenda in order that more rational disucssion may continue.

Rockin' Doc Apr 26 2006 06:18 PM Just one persons opinion....

From all the new threads in this forum, I must have missed one hell of an afternoon session of posting. I guess I have an awful lot of reading to do in order to see what happened this afternoon. I find it sad that so many people that were once friends, if not friends at least cordial acquaintances, can no longer have a debate without bickering and fighting with one another. In years past, we all had the ability to disagree without resorting to name calling and disparaging personal attacks. Now, the civility and common courtesy of the past seems to be increasingly harder to find. The name calling and personal attacks too often get in the way of actual baseball discussion.