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Fire Luis Rojas

Centerfield Apr 05 2021 08:33 PM

Didn't impress me at all last year. Fucked up game 1 badly. Didn't start Dom. Pulled deGrom too early. Pulled Castro too early. Loup over Lucchesi. Formula over hot hand. I've seen enough. Let's get Beltran.

Johnny Lunchbucket Apr 05 2021 08:35 PM Re: Fire Luis Rojas

I'm with you. Who could possibly support how he played it today

Fman99 Apr 05 2021 08:36 PM Re: Fire Luis Rojas

Let's beat him with a boat oar until he cries for his mama.

Johnny Lunchbucket Apr 05 2021 08:36 PM Re: Fire Luis Rojas

Well I don't want Beltran either. But geez

Edgy MD Apr 05 2021 08:40 PM Re: Fire Luis Rojas

I can't begin to justify the pull, but it seems like I watch every Mets manager like Matthew Broderick watched Joshua, urging him to learn faster to keep the world from blowing up. And as the World Series showed, it's not just Mets managers.

Johnny Lunchbucket Apr 05 2021 08:44 PM Re: Fire Luis Rojas

He pissed away a complete mismatch on opening day. FUcK HiM

kcmets Apr 05 2021 08:47 PM Re: Fire Luis Rojas

Rojas will be fine, Mets will contend to win the division.

Ceetar Apr 05 2021 08:49 PM Re: Fire Luis Rojas

I get that it's the first start after a long lay off (thanks Nats) and a long season after a short one, but nothing nothing Rojas or the Mets have shown over the years suggests that that was even 10% of the reasoning. And even if it was, it's some sort of weird emotional adherence to some pseudoscience guessing about what is good or bad for a pitcher's health/arm. I'm still pissed they fired Beltran and I don't know why you'd just roll with the previous GMs second-ish choice after a disappointing underperforming season.

Edgy MD Apr 05 2021 09:03 PM Re: Fire Luis Rojas

I get the idea that it was about 80% of the reasoning. It was just reasoning with 8% validity.

LWFS Apr 05 2021 09:05 PM Re: Fire Luis Rojas

=Centerfield post_id=59659 time=1617676397 user_id=65] Didn't impress me at all last year. Fucked up game 1 badly. Didn't start Dom. Pulled deGrom too early. Pulled Castro too early. Loup over Lucchesi. Formula over hot hand. I've seen enough. Let's get Beltran.

You forgot not PHing Smith for Pillar-- whose defense you don't need if you're up, like, four or more runs-- with the bases loaded in the fifth.



I switched over to the basketball game right after the last out. I'd rather not hear Rojas' non-explanations, I think.

Ceetar Apr 05 2021 09:10 PM Re: Fire Luis Rojas

nah, cause he said 100 pitches earlier in the day. They purposely skipped Lucchesi so he can pitch on Saturday. Either you're going to ease him into it or not. Innings against the Phillies are arguably more important than innings against the Marlins. Rather him to 7/95 here and 6/77 Saturday than the other way around. I guess the skipping Lucchesi is to try to squeeze one more deGrom start into the season since everything's getting more compact, but like, There are a lot of off days in April and I'd be good money they're not going to keep deGrom on every 5 days that entire time anyway. But either way, stop coming up with convoluted metrics and 'ups' and reasons and just tell us you guys determined he'd was reaching the end of his endurance

Edgy MD Apr 05 2021 09:18 PM Re: Fire Luis Rojas

Every fucking out you get out of your starting pitcher is a victory in a war. Every out you elect not to get out of him while he's still getting it done, is a surrender in that same war. But I just can't make it about Luis because the bad logic is viral. Everybody's got it. I have little reason to believe Sandy doesn't have it too. He's as smart as you can hope a GM can be, but philosophical assumptions and bad logic can create a huge blind spot for even the smartest dudes.

LWFS Apr 05 2021 09:48 PM Re: Fire Luis Rojas

He was working about as efficiently as a strikeout-y starting pitcher works. 77 pitches through 6 is less than 13 pitches per inning. Just caught a little of the Rojas explanation, and it was full of "maybe" when trying to explain. Like, "maybe that was the reason behind that decision." Like, maybe it's my English-major close-reading-reflex bullshit, but it almost sounds as if it wasn't quite his decision, and he wasn't privy to/couldn't quite explain the reasoning behind it.

A Boy Named Seo Apr 05 2021 11:48 PM Re: Fire Luis Rojas

Did he flub the double switch? I was surprised and Gary seemed surprised but I was on my third beer (don't know about Gary). But lifting deGrom was fucking insane. I know it's OD, but JdG wasn't driving uber in the off-season. He was ready to pitch today and coulda gone the distance if he had to.

Centerfield Apr 06 2021 05:14 AM Re: Fire Luis Rojas

Our ace was getting squeezed. Their guy was getting 3-4 inches off the plate on both sides. The first time it happens you bark a little. If it keeps happening you get yourself thrown out. Maybe it does little to change the result, but if the ump is going to squeeze you at least let him know you're not happy.

Fman99 Apr 06 2021 05:32 AM Re: Fire Luis Rojas

He was white hot in the 6th. I mean I get that it's a long season but 77 pitches. His lineup choices for game 1 were also abhorrent. Why is Nimmo hitting 8th and Pillar first? Why is Smith sitting? Those are rotten selections and you can't tell me otherwise. I am willing to concede that Pillar saved them a run with that strong throw to get the runner at 3rd. He also barfed with the bases loaded in the 4th, so maybe he saved one run and cost his team two others.

Edgy MD Apr 06 2021 06:07 AM Re: Fire Luis Rojas

=Centerfield post_id=59689 time=1617707647 user_id=65] Our ace was getting squeezed. Their guy was getting 3-4 inches off the plate on both sides. The first time it happens you bark a little. If it keeps happening you get yourself thrown out. Maybe it does little to change the result, but if the ump is going to squeeze you at least let him know you're not happy.

He gets tossed and it may even have the added bonus of the substitute manager not knowing about the mystical logic behind the self-sabotage of lifting your starter when he's the best thing you've got going.

Johnny Lunchbucket Apr 06 2021 06:13 AM Re: Fire Luis Rojas

=kcmets post_id=59668 time=1617677245 user_id=53] Rojas will be fine, Mets will contend to win the division.

He had the best hitting team in the league and missed the playoffs by a mile in the easiest season ever to make the playoffs.



Now he has the best pitcher in the world with a slim lead on the road against a hot team in the division, on opening day, and so takes him so as to show off his new relievers and how brilliantly he can manage the best pitcher in the world to predictable results, and fwiw didn't come close to making a reasoned defense of it.

MFS62 Apr 06 2021 06:20 AM Re: Fire Luis Rojas

Edgy MD wrote: ... but it seems like I watch every Mets manager like Matthew Broderick watched Joshua, urging him to learn faster to keep the world from blowing up. And Joshua learned that it could not win the game. I hope we don't continue to feel that way about the Mets with Rojas managing. (Nice movie reference) Later

Edgy MD Apr 06 2021 06:46 AM Re: Fire Luis Rojas

"Coach Jackson, Michael Jordan was hitting everything for three quarters. Why did you pull him for Dennis Hopson at the start of the fourth quarter?" "Well, we didn't want Michael to have too many ups."

smg58 Apr 06 2021 06:48 AM Re: Fire Luis Rojas

Loup makes more sense (at least in theory) than Lucchesi in that situation, and I get that one of our lefty hitters will sit when a lefty starts for the other team, but DeGrom getting 77 pitches when you know (or at least should know) that the pen is the weak link on the team is just not defensible, by any standard. I don't want Jake throwing 100 mph, especially since he doesn't need to to get guys out. I want him going seven every outing, eight on average, and all nine when necessary.

Edgy MD Apr 06 2021 06:52 AM Re: Fire Luis Rojas

I don't think the issue is a weak pen at all. That, to me, is overthinking it, and plays into the logical trap that we're stuck in. If you have peak-value Wilhelm, Eckersley, and Rivera available in the pen, you still don't lift deGrom unless/until the situation necessitates it.

smg58 Apr 06 2021 06:52 AM Re: Fire Luis Rojas

Oh, and leading off a guy with a sub-.300 career OBP is moronic.

Ceetar Apr 06 2021 07:17 AM Re: Fire Luis Rojas

=Fman99 post_id=59690 time=1617708743 user_id=86] I am willing to concede that Pillar saved them a run with that strong throw to get the runner at 3rd. He also barfed with the bases loaded in the 4th, so maybe he saved one run and cost his team two others.

Maybe he gives up a run. (I think Nimmo is capable of making good throws, in fact I think that might be the better part of his defense game?) and then all things the same-ish it's 2-1 going into the 7th? But you're further along in the lineup. Maybe Castro ends up getting the heart of the order in the 7th, and then May is facing weaker hitters and gets them and we cruise to a 2-1 victory.


=Centerfield post_id=59689 time=1617707647 user_id=65]
Our ace was getting squeezed. Their guy was getting 3-4 inches off the plate on both sides. The first time it happens you bark a little. If it keeps happening you get yourself thrown out. Maybe it does little to change the result, but if the ump is going to squeeze you at least let him know you're not happy.


I wasn't tabulating them, and a lot of times deGrom got the outs anyway (But maybe he's at 66 pitches instead of 77 and..) but this was NOT a good or equitably umpired game by any means.

Centerfield Apr 06 2021 07:20 AM Re: Fire Luis Rojas

How many times did our guys walk away shaking their heads? Even Nimmo gave a sourpuss face. All those calls matter. Even just driving up the pitch count for Jake. This is managerial malpractice.

Johnny Lunchbucket Apr 06 2021 07:22 AM Re: Fire Luis Rojas

He's an idiot

LWFS Apr 06 2021 08:11 AM Re: Fire Luis Rojas

At least re: lineup construction/"explanations" that make me want to scream at someone, anyone, everyone... he definitely has that Young Jerry Manuel smell about him

Centerfield Apr 06 2021 08:34 AM Re: Fire Luis Rojas

At least re: lineup construction/"explanations" that make me want to scream at someone, anyone, everyone... he definitely has that Young Jerry Manuel smell about him Young Jerry Manuel would have let Brian O'Nora hear it and gotten tossed from this game.

Lefty Specialist Apr 06 2021 08:40 AM Re: Fire Luis Rojas

There are plenty of grumbles to go around. You don't bat Nimmo 8th, you bat him first. Yeah, it's a lefty, but it wasn't Steve Freaking Carlton out there. Dom should have started. DeGrom had barely broken a sweat and could have gone another inning. Apparently the pre-game 'plan' was 6 innings (or 'ups'), but you adjust plans based on game situations. At least that's what competent, confident managers are supposed to do. Memo to Sandy: the bullpen still sucks. If this is any indication of what's coming, it'll be a long summer in Flushing. Yes, one game, long season, yada, yada, yada. But this game was a microcosm of what's always been wrong with the Mets- losing winnable games.

Edgy MD Apr 06 2021 08:40 AM Re: Fire Luis Rojas

Such a distinctive smell this card has. https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51vJoen37oL._AC_.jpg> I'll say it again. I think prioritizing the bullpen is a fool's errand. The best thing you can do for your bullpen is to use them as little as possible.

Johnny Lunchbucket Apr 06 2021 08:50 AM Re: Fire Luis Rojas

I don't care about any one game's lineup all that much. It's the pussy way he manages that ruins it for me. Also I don't think he won a single challenge last year, was unable to solve anyone's problems (Davis, Alonso, any and every pitcher).

seawolf17 Apr 06 2021 10:02 AM Re: Fire Luis Rojas

Looks like Rojas was middle of the pack on all the "manager stats" on B-R for 2020. (8 successful challenges out of 18.) For what that's worth. https://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/NL/2020-managers.shtml

Centerfield Apr 06 2021 10:17 AM Re: Fire Luis Rojas

Imagine not winning over the fanbase when you follow Mickey Callaway. I don't have all the data on this, but I will die on the hill that everything Brodie Van Wagenen did sucks except the one time he blasted Manfred by accident.

Johnny Lunchbucket Apr 06 2021 10:59 AM Re: Fire Luis Rojas

Imagine being able to watch plays in slow motion then ask umpires to do the same and them to disagree with what you see you more than half the time

Centerfield Apr 06 2021 11:14 AM Re: Fire Luis Rojas

Someone tell Luis he doesn't have to listen to those in game texts from Jeff anymore.

Johnny Lunchbucket Apr 10 2021 01:47 PM Re: Fire Luis Rojas

NOW!!!!

MFS62 Apr 10 2021 02:08 PM Re: Fire Luis Rojas

Johnny Lunchbucket wrote: NOW!!!! And his (non)hitting coach, too. Later

whippoorwill Apr 10 2021 02:11 PM Re: Fire Luis Rojas

Edgy MD wrote: Such a distinctive smell this card has. https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51vJoen37oL._AC_.jpg> I'll say it again. I think prioritizing the bullpen is a fool's errand. The best thing you can do for your bullpen is to use them as little as possible. I HATE the bullpen. I may have mentioned that a few times I'll jump on this Fire Train

G-Fafif Apr 22 2021 09:58 PM Re: Fire Luis Rojas

Bump?

batmagadanleadoff Apr 22 2021 10:14 PM Re: Fire Luis Rojas

Well, he's on the last year of a two-year contract and he's not Cohen or Alderson's guy. He's a Wilpon leftover. So I'd say Rojas has several issues to deal with besides not winning as often as ownership expects the Mets to win. He's got problems.

kcmets Apr 23 2021 05:30 AM Re: Fire Luis Rojas

Have to give him until Memorial Day, no? I thinks 'tis written on secret lost tablets. Hell, they're still in first place by a lucky pubic hair.

Ceetar Apr 23 2021 08:19 AM Re: Fire Luis Rojas

I mean, Alderson needs to go too, so you can't really let him pick the next guy. But i'm tiring of Rojas fast.

kcmets Apr 23 2021 08:56 AM Re: Fire Luis Rojas

=Ceetar post_id=61902 time=1619187580 user_id=102]so you can't really let him pick the next guy.

Didn't think of that, but you're right.

MFS62 Apr 23 2021 09:56 AM Re: Fire Luis Rojas

Remember all the "he's a player's manager" and "A great guy in the clubhouse" comments when they hired him? Great. If the team starts hitting, but keeps losing, get him out of the manager's chair. Name him Mr. Congeniality, or a new position called "Cheerleader". But not manager. Later

kcmets Apr 23 2021 11:26 AM Re: Fire Luis Rojas

Even Joe Torre* wouldn't be able to make Lindor hit. If he was 50% better than he's been the Mets might be 10-4 instead of 7-7. Breathe people, breathe... *all bow

G-Fafif Apr 23 2021 10:07 PM Re: Fire Luis Rojas

Not having anybody up in the bullpen in the late innings of deGrom's two-hitter was Rojas's best move yet. For that alone he can stick around to at least the end of the homestand.

LWFS May 04 2021 01:38 PM Re: Fire Luis Rojas

bumpety bump

Edgy MD May 04 2021 03:10 PM Re: Fire Luis Rojas

Three threads, Luis. Yeeez.

Willets Point May 04 2021 04:28 PM Re: Fire Luis Rojas

Edgy MD wrote: Three threads, Luis. Yeeez. Reminds me of the old Metsonline Fan Forum days.

MFS62 May 04 2021 05:03 PM Re: Fire Luis Rojas

Johnny Lunchbucket wrote: NOW!!!! And his (non)hitting coach, too. Later Well, I got this part right. Later

ashie62 May 04 2021 05:06 PM Re: Fire Luis Rojas

And deGrom is hurt. Fire this assclown.

Frayed Knot May 04 2021 05:41 PM Re: Fire Luis Rojas

=ashie62 post_id=63040 time=1620169610 user_id=90] And deGrom is hurt. Fire this assclown.

And if someone else gets hurt then we should hire him back just to fire him again.

Edgy MD May 04 2021 07:37 PM Re: Fire Luis Rojas

Smashie seems like he's having a long weekend.