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Luis Rojas on the Hot Seat

ashie62 May 04 2021 10:35 AM

Steve Cohen did not hire him and the Mets stink.

kcmets May 04 2021 11:15 AM Re: Luis Rojas on the Hot Seat

Lol http://phpbb3.ultimatemets.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=30361

MFS62 May 04 2021 11:47 AM Re: Luis Rojas on the Hot Seat

Lol http://phpbb3.ultimatemets.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=30361 Deja vu all over again. Later

kcmets May 04 2021 12:01 PM Re: Luis Rojas on the Hot Seat

Just funnin'... i don't think his job is in jeopardy quite yet. Whole division is struggling in the ,500 range. I think they're like a half-game game out of first.

ashie62 May 04 2021 12:22 PM Re: Luis Rojas on the Hot Seat

Give it time

Johnny Lunchbucket May 04 2021 01:05 PM Re: Luis Rojas on the Hot Seat

Sure seems like he'd be next to pay the price should things not turn around. I dunno if that makes his whacking any more likely, but you know. there are very few jobs like this in the world, it seems like to not have the absolute best guy there is a terrible waste.

Centerfield May 04 2021 01:38 PM Re: Luis Rojas on the Hot Seat

Johnny Lunchbucket wrote: Sure seems like he'd be next to pay the price should things not turn around. I dunno if that makes his whacking any more likely, but you know. there are very few jobs like this in the world, it seems like to not have the absolute best guy there is a terrible waste. This is true. But I guess everyone has a different idea of what a manager's role is, so it's hard to judge who is doing a better job than the next guy. To me, a manager should be good at: 1. In-Game Strategy (substitutions, lineups): Rojas seems bad. Not the worst ever, but not good. 2. Clubhouse Management: I think he's good here. Never heard any complaints about him losing the clubhouse. 3. Just be a smart guy (Stay on top of analytics. Think on the fly. Know your opponent, be creative. Call this the Bobby Valentine intangible.): Rojas seems not quite as sharp as you'd like. 4. Argue with the Umps: When it's not reviewable, go out and get in their face. Demand a huddle/discussion. Ask for help. If you've burned your challenge, go out and demand that they do an umpire review. Show some fire. Most of the time it may not make a difference, but every once in a while, it will. Umpires are human. They should know if they go against you, you're going to get an earful. Also, at the very least, your team can see you are competing and not just rolling over. 5. Be Good with the Press: Rojas is just ok. 6. Don't be a creepy sexual predator: New criteria. Added after the Calloway era.

Johnny Lunchbucket May 04 2021 03:08 PM Re: Luis Rojas on the Hot Seat

Yeah I agree with those. There's also adjusting to win with the talent of the team --and the meeting the moments over the course of a long season. This might be the most difficult part and would seem to demand experience: So far Rojas is shitty at this (the team never really pulled out of its ruts last last) but if he's a good manager, those struggles are in the ol' spank-bank and the experience will reveal itself. Really, all I ask is that the manager 1-run a "0" or better +/- rating on games blown/won by out-strategizing the other manager. 2-Embody the role of being the Mets' manager. Act like that means something! 3-Get on the good side of the press while doing both things above

batmagadanleadoff May 04 2021 03:18 PM Re: Luis Rojas on the Hot Seat

Johnny Lunchbucket wrote: Sure seems like he'd be next to pay the price should things not turn around. I dunno if that makes his whacking any more likely, but you know. there are very few jobs like this in the world, it seems like to not have the absolute best guy there is a terrible waste. This is true. But I guess everyone has a different idea of what a manager's role is, so it's hard to judge who is doing a better job than the next guy. To me, a manager should be good at: Like any of that matters. Rojas is a leftover from the Wilpon era, when nobody would wanna work here. The Wilpons would get whatever was left from the bottom of the soup bowl. Like anyone who knew anything about anything would wanna work for Fred and his abusive failson.

Edgy MD May 04 2021 03:32 PM Re: Luis Rojas on the Hot Seat

Johnny Lunchbucket wrote: 1-run a "0" or better +/- rating on games blown/won by out-strategizing the other manager. 2-Embody the role of being the Mets' manager. Act like that means something! 3-Get on the good side of the press while doing both things above I probably have a similar but different list, but I would conclude he's behind the curve on all three. I mean, #2 is a special challenge arriving in 2020, because it's hard to be the face of the franchise when you have no face. With regard to #3, it's not like he's on the wrong side of the corps at this juncture, but he owes that less to his press performance and more to (a) being young, (b) coming from a legendary family of baseball lifers, (c) coming on board on such shitty circumstances. The circumstances with the press and he being connected mostly digitally so far is probably a wash. It hasn't helped him get on the good side or the bad side. Anybody who wants to be an just be an elusive enigma, the time has been ripe for it.

batmagadanleadoff May 05 2021 05:56 PM Re: Luis Rojas on the Hot Seat

This losing keeps up and Rojas won't make it to the all-star break. And let's not forget that the Mets didn't make last year's playoffs when 135% of all teams qualified.

HahnSolo May 07 2021 11:47 AM Re: Luis Rojas on the Hot Seat

Rojas's lack of understanding the rule about the interpreter mound visits bothered me. I know in the end it probably didn't make all that much of a difference, but felt like the Cardinals pulled one over on the Mets (and the umpires tbf) while our manager just sat there. Now, I had no idea what the rule was either, but Rojas certainly should have.

Centerfield May 07 2021 12:30 PM Re: Luis Rojas on the Hot Seat

=HahnSolo post_id=63400 time=1620409630 user_id=63] Rojas's lack of understanding the rule about the interpreter mound visits bothered me. I know in the end it probably didn't make all that much of a difference, but felt like the Cardinals pulled one over on the Mets (and the umpires tbf) while our manager just sat there. Now, I had no idea what the rule was either, but Rojas certainly should have.

Drives me crazy when they just sit there and you're screaming at the TV to do something. This happened with Mickey a lot too. I think it's because he didn't actually understand what to argue about.

TransMonk Jul 06 2021 08:21 AM Re: Luis Rojas on the Hot Seat

I don't know if Rojas has improved any of his skills as the season has gone on, but I realized last week that seeing him in-game without a mask on gives me a different perspective on his personality. He's had a mask on for nearly all of his time managing the Mets, which led me to perceive him as more passive and indifferent at times because I couldn't see his full facial expressions. Over the past couple of weeks, being able to see him grin or grimace or shout while fired up or giving a cold stare has given me a new glimpse into his managing style. Before he lost the mask, I wasn't sure I trusted him as a leader. I'm sure the winning despite adversity helps, but now I do feel like I'm warming to his managing style because I can see his face.

Gwreck Jul 06 2021 08:32 AM Re: Luis Rojas on the Hot Seat

SNY has discussed often that Rojas seems to get on the umps about ball/strike calls. That's fine, but I would also like to see more of that on big calls. The botched replay in Game 1 Saturday called out for it. Obviously the call isn't getting overturned once the replay is over. But since it was so clearly wrong, some discussion is warranted. The umpires rotate through the “replay” position and the guys on the field are going to be the reply official at a later date. Maybe Rojas even gets ejected, but it's a point worth making.

Edgy MD Jul 06 2021 08:55 AM Re: Luis Rojas on the Hot Seat

I've seen Luis' face 　I can now guess his gender, race 　Perhaps his age, I know those shouldn't weigh 　Upon my judgment, but I say 　I've warmed 　Mm-mm-mm-m'mm-mm! 　Had it been the prior year 　With masks that go from ear to ear 　"Nineteen" was printed on his cheek 　But nothing else was there to speak 　For him 　Di-di-di-di'n'di! 　　Leading! 　　I see him leading! 　　Not merely feeding! 　　From Cohen's trough! 　I had never seen him fight 　And show a winning appetite 　He rides the umpires half the night 　Perhaps it's just the winning light 　That's changed 　Di-di-di-di'n'di! 　　Warming! 　　Yes, I am warming! 　　'Cuz he's informing! 　　Me with his face! 　　Trusting! 　　He's who I'm trusting! 　　In this disgusting! 　　Toxic workplace! 　I've seen Luis' face 　As I behold our winning pace 　Despite the offense and the injuries 　The prices and "convenience fees" 　I'll bear 　Mm-mm-mm-di-di-di! 　　Pressors! 　　He handles pressors! 　　Deflects agressors! 　　Who lack his grace! 　　Staring! 　　I see him caring! 　　A stately bearing! 　　Upon that face!

TransMonk Jul 06 2021 09:23 AM Re: Luis Rojas on the Hot Seat

https://media1.tenor.com/images/7b98ac3b5ad87c27de53b3c6b5cdef0d/tenor.gif?itemid=5512903> Edgy conceptualizing my thoughts into a Beatles parody makes me smile!

Johnny Lunchbucket Jul 06 2021 09:30 AM Re: Luis Rojas on the Hot Seat

lollllol

MFS62 Jul 06 2021 09:45 AM Re: Luis Rojas on the Hot Seat

=TransMonk post_id=70386 time=1625581282 user_id=71] I'm sure the winning despite adversity helps, but now I do feel like I'm warming to his managing style because I can see his face.

Seeing his face doesn't make me like many of his in-game decisions any better. Maybe his occasional grimace is because he finally gets what he just did.



Later

Edgy MD Jul 06 2021 09:46 AM Re: Luis Rojas on the Hot Seat

Luis helped me solve today's Washington Post crossword. https://metsrostercentral.files.wordpress.com/2021/07/alou-crossword.png>

Marshmallowmilkshake Jul 06 2021 10:26 AM Re: Luis Rojas on the Hot Seat

Great song! He's going to be NL Manager of the Year, I think.

kcmets Jul 06 2021 10:38 AM Re: Luis Rojas on the Hot Seat

That would be something! =kcmets post_id=56679 time=1614005701 user_id=53] Does Luis Rojas winning manager of the year be considered dark horse? Yes? I'll go with Luis Rojas.

Ceetar Jul 06 2021 01:02 PM Re: Luis Rojas on the Hot Seat

=Marshmallowmilkshake post_id=70404 time=1625588817 user_id=119] Great song! He's going to be NL Manager of the Year, I think.

pretty much a given as long as he doesn't Rat/Raccoon them.



But what matters to the voters is giving good quotes in press conferences, since that's the one part of their job they need to pretend is super important and essential and can't be replaced by reading Fangraphs.

Edgy MD Jul 06 2021 01:10 PM Re: Luis Rojas on the Hot Seat

Ceetar pivots.

Ceetar Jul 06 2021 01:33 PM Re: Luis Rojas on the Hot Seat

_I'm_ not pivot. I still think he's doing a poor job overall as far as I can tell, but I"m not a voter.

Marshmallowmilkshake Jul 06 2021 01:46 PM Re: Luis Rojas on the Hot Seat

_I'm_ not pivot. I still think he's doing a poor job overall as far as I can tell, but I"m not a voter. He's got a Mets team in first place on July 1 missing most of his best players for long stretches and many of the top players who have not been hurt are performing below career averages. He's done a fantastic job. Him, and the front office that is a "mess."

Ceetar Jul 06 2021 02:02 PM Re: Luis Rojas on the Hot Seat

wrong.

Edgy MD Jul 06 2021 02:04 PM Re: Luis Rojas on the Hot Seat

=Ceetar post_id=70421 time=1625600004 user_id=102]_I'm_ not pivot.

Is this a new language?



Thundercrack ^cheescake^ underpass!

Ceetar Jul 06 2021 02:09 PM Re: Luis Rojas on the Hot Seat

There's another BIG thing Rojas could do, as 'management' that would be great for risk management. GET TO 85% VACCINATED. On top of that, It's extremely narrow-minded to credit him for the 6th string guy doing well but not dock him for the 5th string guy getting hurt. Like, Having these guys ready to go and staying healthy and not playing them through injury is a big part of it, and he's failed, badly.

Marshmallowmilkshake Jul 06 2021 02:35 PM Re: Luis Rojas on the Hot Seat

ME - He's got a Mets team in first place on July 1 missing most of his best players for long stretches and many of the top players who have not been hurt are performing below career averages. He's done a fantastic job. Him, and the front office that is a "]On top of that, It's extremely narrow-minded to credit him for the 6th string guy doing well but not dock him for the 5th string guy getting hurt. Like, Having these guys ready to go and staying healthy and not playing them through injury is a big part of it, and he's failed, badly. It's the manager's job to keep players from getting hurt? Is he supposed to sit down with Joey Lucchesi and motivate him to not tear his UCL? If he's finding a way to win with the guys who were the backups to the backups to the backups -- and that was the lineup I saw in Miami in May -- then he's doing a fantastic job.

Ceetar Jul 06 2021 04:24 PM Re: Luis Rojas on the Hot Seat

yes, it's the manager's job to get his players vaccinated and not play them hurt and remove them when they're hurt and manager their workload, their prep, and all that, so they don't get hurt. He's just as much a pansy as every other manager across the country that's not mandating vaccines for his workers. Even more so maybe, because there are tangible benefits to reaching 85% that he could help them reach. He's failing the 60 or so percent of them, including Lindor, that ARE vaccinated and are still being limited in some of their freedoms around the ballpark. He's not finding a way to win, the players are. Mostly the pitchers. In part because of the changes to the baseball. He's choosing the right relievers but mostly they've ALL been effective. It's not like he's piecing together innings (especially with the nonsense 7 inning stuff) with luck and matchups. He didn't sign these guys. He should win manager of the year because Jacob deGrom is literally unhittable? please. Give it to Hefner if anything.

Marshmallowmilkshake Jul 06 2021 05:13 PM Re: Luis Rojas on the Hot Seat

=Ceetar post_id=70437 time=1625610291 user_id=102] yes, it's the manager's job to get his players vaccinated and not play them hurt and remove them when they're hurt and manager their workload, their prep, and all that, so they don't get hurt. He's just as much a pansy as every other manager across the country that's not mandating vaccines for his workers. Even more so maybe, because there are tangible benefits to reaching 85% that he could help them reach. He's failing the 60 or so percent of them, including Lindor, that ARE vaccinated and are still being limited in some of their freedoms around the ballpark. He's not finding a way to win, the players are. Mostly the pitchers. In part because of the changes to the baseball. He's choosing the right relievers but mostly they've ALL been effective. It's not like he's piecing together innings (especially with the nonsense 7 inning stuff) with luck and matchups. He didn't sign these guys. He should win manager of the year because Jacob deGrom is literally unhittable? please. Give it to Hefner if anything.

You are digging a deeper hole of ridiculousness.

Gwreck Jul 06 2021 05:15 PM Re: Luis Rojas on the Hot Seat

“Pansy” is not an acceptable word to use in that manner.

Ceetar Jul 06 2021 05:35 PM Re: Luis Rojas on the Hot Seat

yellow-bellied chicken shit. how's that?

Edgy MD Jul 06 2021 07:57 PM Re: Luis Rojas on the Hot Seat

What's wrong with yellow bellies, anyhow? I never got that one. Is there a connection between jaundice and cowardice? And does shit even have a belly? Is chicken shit peculiar in that way among all the fauna shits?

metsmarathon Jul 07 2021 08:30 AM Re: Luis Rojas on the Hot Seat

management cannot force labor to undergo medical procedures. in almost all circumstances. there are likely very specific rules as to what he can and cannot talk about or even advocate for in that regard, pertaining to covid. he may not even be allowed to officially know who on his team is vaccinated right now and who is not. i say this from personal experience. i am currently in a supervisory role. i am not permitted to try to ascertain the vaccination status of my employees. but then, i'm probably a chickenshit pansy too.

Edgy MD Jul 07 2021 08:35 AM Re: Luis Rojas on the Hot Seat

And your avatar makes the color of your belly quite undeniable. SAD!

Lefty Specialist Jul 07 2021 08:51 AM Re: Luis Rojas on the Hot Seat

=metsmarathon post_id=70478 time=1625668255 user_id=83] management cannot force labor to undergo medical procedures. in almost all circumstances. there are likely very specific rules as to what he can and cannot talk about or even advocate for in that regard, pertaining to covid. he may not even be allowed to officially know who on his team is vaccinated right now and who is not. i say this from personal experience. i am currently in a supervisory role. i am not permitted to try to ascertain the vaccination status of my employees. but then, i'm probably a chickenshit pansy too.

I'm sure most contracts have a 'conduct detrimental to the team' clause. I would think not getting vaccinated could fall into that bucket. I'd certainly like someone to try and enforce it.

Benjamin Grimm Jul 07 2021 09:09 AM Re: Luis Rojas on the Hot Seat

There's a hospital in Texas that's firing people who refuse to get vaccinated. I'm pretty certain that Luis Rojas can't force his players to get vaccinated. And the MLB Players Association would have something to say about the matter as well. It's a can of worms that they're clearly reluctant to open. But regarding the topic at hand, is Luis Rojas a good manager, it can be very hard to say. We see the in-game moves (which I often disagree with) and the media relations (which I don't really care about unless it becomes a distraction that affects the on-field results) but we don't see the behind-the-scenes stuff. Has Rojas done anything tangible to coax the Replace-Mets to do as well as they did? Or was he lucky? I can't say either way. Regarding Manager of the Year, that award often seems to go to the manager of the team that's done better than expected. If Rojas wins the division with a injury-ridden team, he'll have a good shot, I guess.

Lefty Specialist Jul 07 2021 09:48 AM Re: Luis Rojas on the Hot Seat

Rojas is low-key, except when he's bitching to umpires, which he does entirely too often. That seems to suit this team. It seems like he kind of gets out of the way and lets them play. Not sure that's Manager of the Year stuff.

Marshmallowmilkshake Jul 07 2021 10:40 AM Re: Luis Rojas on the Hot Seat

Lefty Specialist wrote: Rojas is low-key, except when he's bitching to umpires, which he does entirely too often. That seems to suit this team. It seems like he kind of gets out of the way and lets them play. Not sure that's Manager of the Year stuff. https://media.gettyimages.com/photos/orioles-manager-earl-weaver-argues-with-the-umpires-during-a-home-at-picture-id159755323?s=612x612> Hall-of-Famer Earl Weaver, two-time Manager of the Year, disagrees! Honestly, I've never heard about his being excessive in needling umpires. Not disputing you, just saying I've never heard that.

Edgy MD Jul 07 2021 10:53 AM Re: Luis Rojas on the Hot Seat

Earl Weaver was a brilliant strategist and leader who turned the Orioles into an organizational model from top to bottom, but there's a strong argument that his combativeness worked against him, alongside his high self-regard.

MFS62 Jul 07 2021 11:04 AM Re: Luis Rojas on the Hot Seat Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Jul 07 2021 11:46 AM

Edgy MD wrote: Earl Weaver was a brilliant strategist and leader who turned the Orioles into an organizational model from top to bottom, but there's a strong argument that his combativeness worked against him, alongside his high self-regard. SABR says Paul Richards and Jim McLaughlin built the "Oriole Way" model. https://sabr.org/bioproj/topic/the-oriole-way/ Later, Weaver was one of those who used it at the major league level. Frank Cashen learned it there, and implemented it with the Mets when he came to New York. Later

Lefty Specialist Jul 07 2021 11:40 AM Re: Luis Rojas on the Hot Seat

=Marshmallowmilkshake post_id=70486 time=1625676031 user_id=119] Honestly, I've never heard about his being excessive in needling umpires. Not disputing you, just saying I've never heard that.

Watch any SNY game. He's constantly moaning. He's not in their face like Weaver was, but he's always griping about ball and strike calls from the dugout. Gary has mentioned this more than once this year, even comparing him to Bobby Cox, who was legendary in bitching about every call.

MFS62 Jul 07 2021 11:46 AM Re: Luis Rojas on the Hot Seat

Edgy MD wrote: Earl Weaver was a brilliant strategist and leader who turned the Orioles into an organizational model from top to bottom, but there's a strong argument that his combativeness worked against him, alongside his high self-regard. SABR says Paul Richards and Jim McLaughlin built the "Oriole Way" model. https://sabr.org/bioproj/topic/the-oriole-way/ Later, Weaver was one of those who used it at the major league level. Frank Cashen learned it there, and implemented it with the Mets when he came to New York. Later

Edgy MD Jul 07 2021 11:56 AM Re: Luis Rojas on the Hot Seat

I wouldn't call it excessive. I'd just call it riding.

Marshmallowmilkshake Jul 07 2021 12:00 PM Re: Luis Rojas on the Hot Seat

Lefty Specialist wrote: =Marshmallowmilkshake post_id=70486 time=1625676031 user_id=119] Honestly, I've never heard about his being excessive in needling umpires. Not disputing you, just saying I've never heard that. Watch any SNY game. He's constantly moaning. He's not in their face like Weaver was, but he's always griping about ball and strike calls from the dugout. Gary has mentioned this more than once this year, even comparing him to Bobby Cox, who was legendary in bitching about every call.

I've missed that! Will listen for that. Wonder if that was something Felipe did!

metsmarathon Jul 08 2021 10:37 AM Re: Luis Rojas on the Hot Seat

i mean, to me, the best overall measure of the success of a manager is, are they getting the best out of their team? are the results more or less than you should expect, based on the talent they have available to them. the mets are in first place, having run through an assortment of replacement and sub-replacement type players in stead of the cores of their offense and pitching staff. if you can't credit the manager with any of that, well then what the hell is the point of having a good manager, any way? and well then you certainly couldn't get upset an your manager if the team is underperforming, right? are there some tactical decisions that could be improved? sure. what's the WAR on those levels of decisions? what's the WPA? i think those are the parts that are easiest to see and react to, but over the course of a long season, how many games are strictly won or lost based on those choices? (this sounds like the start of an interesting study, actually.) i mean, the bottom line is, the ingredients are all there for an epic collapse for the team. injuries up and down the roster and over and over again. noteworthy player getting popped on PEDs for the season. trade of two key young players, incoming star on a massive contract. new player gets hurt before the season begins. star player with massive contract fist-fights with incumbent player; media circus ensues. another media circus comes and goes. star players struggle with meeting performance expectations. greatest pitcher in the history of sport goes up and down with minor injuries a few times. and through it all, the team has really come together and stayed together. and played well and played with resilience. they don't quit on games, innings, seasons, or at bats. the manager has to get some of that credit. not all, of course. but definitely some. he's the one responsible for keeping the pieces that he's given all moving in the right direction after all. and in the grand scheme of things, yeah, man, i'd rather have that then making sure we don't miss that one challenge in that one game that one time, or rolled the wrong middle reliever dice, or did or didn't bunt when he maybe could have or shouldn't have. yeaaah, you could say it's all degrom. but he's not pitching every game and he's not pitching every inning when he does pitch in games. the manager is making it work. even with his team's embarrassingly low vaccination rate that he literally has no control over. (you think maybe the owner and gm should take more of the blame there, perhaps... hmmm...??? why isn't jeremy hefner out there jabbing his pitchers while he's out there visiting the damn mound? why isn't he doing HIS JOB? he sucks too, amrite...!?)

Edgy MD Jul 08 2021 10:51 AM Re: Luis Rojas on the Hot Seat

It's actually all measurable with data. A dude lands on the team. At that point, there are any number of projection systems which plot out his career from that point onward. Plot his mean projected outcomes as a trend line, and then as he undertakes his career on your team, plot his actual outcomes under Manager X against it. Does that mean that ever performance above and below his projected trend line is 100% the manager's work? Of course not. But when you start to measure the differences over time through the performances of 25, 50, 100 players under his tenure, perhaps patterns can emerge. Players play 17% above their projected career tracks when under the supervision of Manager X, but 11% under their projected career tracks when under the supervision of Manager Y. There are assumptions and luck baked into the pie, but it's data driven, and frankly, luck and assumptions and arbitrary decisions by scorers or stadium builders play into most outcomes. As the data compiles, hopefully most of these factors cancel each other out. You can measure coaches this way as well, minor league managers, scouts, execs. It's not perfect, but we can go back on forth on this manager or that until the end of time. It's about time somebody brought some science to it. [fimg=600]http://people.duke.edu/~rnau/411trend_files/image004.png[/fimg] [FIMG=600]https://1r65612jvqxn8fcup46pve6b-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/baseline-statistics-full-graph-clear-impact.jpg[/FIMG]