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Ball Busters

batmagadanleadoff Jun 09 2021 11:42 PM

Here's a theory I've never heard until just now: Mets' Alonso accuses MLB of manipulating balls to impact free agency by Jason Wilson Jun 09, 10:20 PM [FIMG=555]https://assets-cms.thescore.com/uploads/image/file/459615/w1280xh966_GettyImages-1233343983.jpg?ts=1623275651[/FIMG] New York Mets first baseman Pete Alonso is in favor of pitchers doctoring baseballs with whatever substance they want and thinks the real story is how Major League Baseball changes the ball from year to year depending on who's set to enter free agency. "The biggest concern is that Major League Baseball manipulates the baseballs year in and year out depending on the free-agency class or guys being in an advanced part of their arbitration," Alonso said Wednesday. "So I do think that's a big issue - the ball being different every single year. Alonso remained adamant when asked to elaborate on how the league has tweaked the ball to coincide with free agency. "That's a fact," Alonso said, per SNY. He continued, "In 2019, there was a huge class of free-agent pitchers, and then that's (when) the quote, unquote, 'juiced balls' (happened). ... Now that we're back to playing in a regular season with a ton of shortstops or position players that are going to be owed, paid a lot of money like high-caliber players, it's not a coincidence." Alonso added that ball manipulation is a problem unique to baseball. "With other sports, the ball's the same, like basketball, football, tennis, golf, the ball's the same. ... Maybe if the league didn't change the baseball, pitchers wouldn't need to use as much sticky stuff," he said, per DiComo. MLB plans to crack down on pitchers who doctor balls during their starts, and hurlers like New York Yankees ace Gerrit Cole are facing greater scrutiny for their potential involvement. Alonso agrees with Cole insofar as ball-doctoring is traditionally a practice that has been quietly accepted over the years, and he thinks pitchers having better grip when throwing is a positive. "Since the start of the game, pitchers have been using substances," the slugger said. "I mean, there's a bag of rosin behind the mound right now to help guys dry their hands and get grip. For me, I think whether they're using pine tar, rosin, Bullfrog, or sunscreen and rosin, or whatever they want to use to help control the ball, let them use it. He added, "I go in the box every single day and I see guys throwing harder and harder every day. And I don't want 99 slipping out of someone's hand because they didn't have enough feel for it." While grip is one benefit from using the various sticky substances available - approved or otherwise - another has been drastic improvements to spin rate, which is seen as giving pitchers a competitive advantage. MLB has yet to officially announce a plan to address ball-doctoring or what sanctions will be involved for pitchers found to be in violation of the rules. https://www.thescore.com/mlb/news/2181873/amp

nymr83 Jun 10 2021 05:28 AM Re: Ball Busters

I just read that too, I definitely would not put that past the owners. A consistent ball - with good grip - is important

Benjamin Grimm Jun 10 2021 05:34 AM Re: Ball Busters

I admit it's a possibility (albeit a very slim one), but Pete is presenting it as a solid fact. And there's no way he has any real evidence of this.

roger_that Jun 10 2021 06:10 AM Re: Ball Busters

Personally, I prefer Carl Everett's theories about dinosaurs.

Johnny Lunchbucket Jun 10 2021 06:37 AM Re: Ball Busters

Benjamin Grimm wrote: I admit it's a possibility (albeit a very slim one), but Pete is presenting it as a solid fact. And there's no way he has any real evidence of this. Even worse is that it's the kind of careless leap to judgment that resonates with today's modern moron.

kcmets Jun 10 2021 06:39 AM Re: Ball Busters

Gary went on about this last night a bit. Wondered if there will be any punishing ramifications or whatever for his comments but I really can't see what that might amount to. Personally, I prefer Carl Everett's theories about dinosaurs. Funny memory: Years ago when we had season tickets our box mates for a year or two were Manhattan attorneys who just happened to represent Carl with his off-field issues. I couldn't get any juice out of them other than, "let's just say Mr. Everett's elevator doesn't stop at all the floors."

Fman99 Jun 10 2021 07:12 AM Re: Ball Busters

Pete's great at hitting baseballs a long way. He's pretty ridiculous at most other things, I've noticed.

Edgy MD Jun 10 2021 07:20 AM Re: Ball Busters

Johnny Lunchbucket wrote: The kind of careless leap to judgment that resonates with today's modern moron. This, coincidentally, is the tagline for my new e-journal.

Edgy MD Jun 10 2021 07:22 AM Re: Ball Busters

Gary went on about this last night a bit. Wondered if there will be any punishing ramifications or whatever for his comments but I really can't see what that might amount to. Personally, I prefer Carl Everett's theories about dinosaurs. Funny memory: Years ago when we had season tickets our box mates for a year or two were Manhattan attorneys who just happened to represent Carl with his off-field issues. I couldn't get any juice out of them other than, "let's just say Mr. Everett's elevator doesn't stop at all the floors." I always thought you had a little more inside info on Carl than the average bear.

Ceetar Jun 10 2021 07:31 AM Re: Ball Busters

Whether or not it's true is mostly irrelevant. MLB doesn't seem capable of executing to be honest, based on the data we have. Though it's possible they intended subtler tweaks and overcorrected and exposed themselves. It's also, hopefully, not lost on guys like Alonso. (Who's the Mets player rep this year? is it Alonso?) He pretty much telegraphed that Lindor agrees with him, Lindor is an Alternate Association Player Rep on the MLBPA executive subcommittee. (and a pending superstar free agent when they would've made any ball tweaks) MLB has complete authority to do whatever they want with the ball, based on the rules. Whether or not they did, is again, irrelevant. They HAVE been trying to tinker with the offensive environment, whatever their motives, without the players input. By design or not, it HAS had a pretty sizable impact, and that's certainly something the players are going to care about. I'd hope guys like Alonso are aware that the Mets are currently scheduled to play a few games worth of fewer innings than everyone else. That Mets season total when put up against someone else might look slightly less as a result.

MFS62 Jun 10 2021 07:34 AM Re: Ball Busters

I broke out in hives when Alonso mentioned the words "free agency". Later

kcmets Jun 10 2021 07:36 AM Re: Ball Busters

=Ceetar post_id=67463 time=1623331894 user_id=102] (Who's the Mets player rep this year? is it Alonso?)

I looked before, Conforto is the team's player rep.

Marshmallowmilkshake Jun 10 2021 07:57 AM Re: Ball Busters

Whether Pete is right or wrong, it's a good window into the extreme level of mistrust between the players and owners and why these upcoming CBA negotiations are going to be the worst thing ever.

Ceetar Jun 10 2021 08:47 AM Re: Ball Busters

[TWEET]https://twitter.com/Bbl_Astrophyscs/status/1402763806296707072[/TWEET]

kcmets Jun 10 2021 09:00 AM Re: Ball Busters

Edgy MD wrote: I always thought you had a little more inside info on Carl than the average bear. Well, I was also pretty tight with HVAC Guy at Shea back then. Distant memories now...

Edgy MD Jun 10 2021 01:21 PM Re: Ball Busters

Without copious data on the subject, I hesitate to conclude that this goo is giving people both more spin on the ball and more control of where their pitch is going. Are walks/wild pitches/hit batsmen all down from 25 years ago?

kcmets Jun 10 2021 01:29 PM Re: Ball Busters

Certainly not control; and 'spin' is the latest analytic fad du jour fer sher.

batmagadanleadoff Jun 10 2021 01:43 PM Re: Ball Busters

Edgy MD wrote: Without copious data on the subject, I hesitate to conclude that this goo is giving people both more spin on the ball and more control of where their pitch is going. Are walks/wild pitches/hit batsmen all down from 25 years ago? Spider Tack is like rosin on super steroids. Or steroids on steroids. You get the point. Here's one study to support what I just wrote, but you can surf the web for several others. I don't think that the (Ahem) revolutionary effects of Spider Tack are being disputed. https://www.thescore.com/mlb/news/2180019 There's no reason to conclude that Spider Tack is also increasing control. And rosin, which is legal, provides the sort of control that all players want -- to ensure that some poor unlucky batter isn't getting killed to death by a wayward pitch every other month. It's a balancing act. Some extra control via foreign substance is tolerated for the safety of everybody, even if the substance gives pitchers an edge through enhanced spin rates. But Spider Tack tilts the balance between better control and enhanced spin rates to the point of unreasonableness. It marginally enhances control, if even that, while increasing spin rates to the point where there are now apparently 10 or 20 Sandy Koufaxes in the majors.

Edgy MD Jun 10 2021 01:48 PM Re: Ball Busters

Yeah, I checked, and yeah, the data isn't supporting him. All three indicators of wildness are climbing at a meaningful rate. So if the goo is keeping Pete's noggin safer, there are a lot of other concurrent factors suddenly offsetting it. I certainly have my doubts.

batmagadanleadoff Jun 10 2021 02:02 PM Re: Ball Busters

Edgy MD wrote: Yeah, I checked, and yeah, the data isn't supporting him. All three indicators of wildness are climbing at a meaningful rate. So if the goo is keeping Pete's noggin safer, there are a lot of other concurrent factors suddenly offsetting it. I certainly have my doubts. Maybe the higher the spin rate, the harder it is to control that pitch.

Ceetar Jun 10 2021 02:10 PM Re: Ball Busters

we've sorta selected out control pitchers too, in a league where the hitters are so good they lay off the corner nibbling, and also one where everyone's throwing 99, pitchers that throw 92 and hit corners don't really thrive unless they're absolutely ELITE level control. Otherwise they get bombed a few times when they're off. Plus the current 'Avengers over Spider-Man' type rotation construction means teams would rather have a guy that's throwing straight 99mph fastballs and just not let him throw as many innings or times through the order.

Edgy MD Jun 10 2021 04:20 PM Re: Ball Busters

Edgy MD wrote: Yeah, I checked, and yeah, the data isn't supporting him. All three indicators of wildness are climbing at a meaningful rate. So if the goo is keeping Pete's noggin safer, there are a lot of other concurrent factors suddenly offsetting it. I certainly have my doubts. Maybe the higher the spin rate, the harder it is to control that pitch. I'm kind of thinking the same, which is completely counter to Alonso's logic.

Edgy MD Jun 10 2021 04:44 PM Re: Ball Busters

I dinna want to jump to conclusions, but if there be a gun to my head, I'd say that Pete is trying to cover the ass of some teammates.

MFS62 Jun 11 2021 07:56 AM Re: Ball Busters

Trevor Bauer used the stuff to get himself a 3 year, 102 million dollar contract so if that is what is going to happen going forward it might not be working as well as the owners had hoped. Later

Edgy MD Jun 11 2021 08:09 AM Re: Ball Busters

Well, that's not what's allegedly going to happen. The league is supposedly cracking down on the use, which is what got us here.

MFS62 Jun 11 2021 08:19 AM Re: Ball Busters

Edgy MD wrote: Well, that's not what's allegedly going to happen. The league is supposedly cracking down on the use, which is what got us here. That was Alonso's comment in the first post in this thread. Mets' Alonso accuses MLB of manipulating balls to impact free agency Later

Edgy MD Jun 11 2021 08:32 AM Re: Ball Busters

We're clearly talking about two different things. Changes to the composition of the ball and cracking down on the use of Spider Tack are separate issues being conflated. Trevor Bauer did not gain his contract through changes of the composition of the ball.

MFS62 Jun 11 2021 08:35 AM Re: Ball Busters

Yes. Later