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Embarrassing Competitive Disadvantage

Gwreck Jun 17 2021 11:54 AM

As has been widely reported, 22 of the 30 MLB clubs have reached the 85% vaccination threshold. https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/31614014/mlb-says-22-teams-now-vaccination-threshold-pace-slows Somehow, the Mets remain one of the 8 clubs suffering this competitive disadvantage. Curiously, there has been little consolidate reporting of the other 7 teams so affected, but a little googling reports that the Cubs, Diamondbacks, Mariners, Padres, Phillies, Red Sox, and Twins are also needlessly putting themselves at a disadvantage. It seems odd that there has been little appetite to not press this topic more with team leadership and management.

Ceetar Jun 17 2021 12:07 PM Re: Embarrassing Competitive Disadvantage

it's odd to me that the MetsBeat just shrugs at this, despite it having obvious benefits to them too. And them having been vocal about the pandemic restrictions being detrimental to their concept of reporting.

kcmets Jun 17 2021 01:34 PM Re: Embarrassing Competitive Disadvantage

Call me naive, but I assumed all the players on all the teams got shots long ago.

Gwreck Jun 17 2021 01:36 PM Re: Embarrassing Competitive Disadvantage

I will regrettably call you naive, sir. There are a lot that have not.

Lefty Specialist Jun 17 2021 01:52 PM Re: Embarrassing Competitive Disadvantage

Lotta vaccine deniers in MLB, regrettably.

Lefty Specialist Jun 17 2021 01:55 PM Re: Embarrassing Competitive Disadvantage

=Ceetar post_id=68272 time=1623953262 user_id=102] it's odd to me that the MetsBeat just shrugs at this, despite it having obvious benefits to them too. And them having been vocal about the pandemic restrictions being detrimental to their concept of reporting.

Because if they say anything they'll be shut out. I'm guessing that players prefer the zoom calls to 15 reporters crowding around you in the locker room, anyway.

kcmets Jun 17 2021 02:10 PM Re: Embarrassing Competitive Disadvantage

Lefty Specialist wrote: Lotta vaccine deniers in MLB, regrettably. I need to come out from under my rock more, I guess. Crazy...

batmagadanleadoff Jun 17 2021 02:30 PM Re: Embarrassing Competitive Disadvantage

Lefty Specialist wrote: Lotta vaccine deniers in MLB, regrettably. I'm generalizing here, but to simplify, I'd put those who refuse to get a covid vaccine into two categories: One - those who harbor serious long term safety concerns about the vaccines because the vaccines were rushed to market in a historically unprecedented manner. No vaccines were ever developed and approved in so short a time prior to covid-19. People in this category will tend to be young and very healthy, like professional athletes; and Two - Those nutjobs who think that the government is using the vaccine to inject tracking devices into its recipients, or some other tinfoil QAnon-like stolen election lunatic suspicion.

roger_that Jun 17 2021 03:37 PM Re: Embarrassing Competitive Disadvantage

Lefty Specialist wrote: Lotta vaccine deniers in MLB, regrettably. I'm generalizing here, but to simplify, I'd put those who refuse to get a covid vaccine into two categories: One - those who harbor serious long term safety concerns about the vaccines because the vaccines were rushed to market in a historically unprecedented manner. No vaccines were ever developed and approved in so short a time prior to covid-19. People in this category will tend to be young and very healthy, like professional athletes; and Two - Those nutjobs who think that the government is using the vaccine to inject tracking devices into its recipients, or some other tinfoil QAnon-like stolen election lunatic suspicion. Three-- those who would do anything, including "die," if it pisses off a few libtards.

Edgy MD Jun 17 2021 04:09 PM Re: Embarrassing Competitive Disadvantage

[TWEET]https://twitter.com/drewmagary/status/1405510715847364612[/TWEET] https://www.sfgate.com/sports/article/Drew-Magary-Boo-the-anti-vax-athletes-16252818.php I'm not quite there.

MFS62 Jun 17 2021 04:24 PM Re: Embarrassing Competitive Disadvantage

Edgy MD wrote: I'm not quite there. OK. No booing. But is carrying a sign that says, "Why haven't you gotten vaccinated, you asshole?" out of the question? Later

Lefty Specialist Jun 17 2021 05:01 PM Re: Embarrassing Competitive Disadvantage

I'll boo. These people are being selfish assholes.

Ceetar Jun 17 2021 05:21 PM Re: Embarrassing Competitive Disadvantage

I'm generalizing here, but to simplify, I'd put those who refuse to get a covid vaccine into two categories: One - those who harbor serious long term safety concerns about the vaccines because the vaccines were rushed to market in a historically unprecedented manner. No vaccines were ever developed and approved in so short a time prior to covid-19. People in this category will tend to be young and very healthy, like professional athletes; Simpler: stupid people. There have been over 3 billion doses. This is an absolutely absurd take and it falls closer to the 'magnets and 5g chip' stance than any legitimate hesitancy. Some of this is poor education by the people supposed to be promoting this stuff, but a lot of it's that these guys lean conservative and while they might not be out and out fascists like the republican party, they still probably do things like listen to Joe Rogan. So any 'safety concerns' are filtered down from the qanon stuff, even if it's not as obvious. I'll absolutely boo these people. At best they're the guy in the office break room sneezing and coughing all over everything and not covering their mouth, while insisting "I don't get sick". Or the guy that visits a newborn without washing his hands.

Edgy MD Jun 17 2021 06:33 PM Re: Embarrassing Competitive Disadvantage

I got my vaccine. But I understand reticence. It's not like pharmaceutical giants have earned the benefit of the doubt. And they're working triple speed, with a huge financial incentive, under the supervision of the Trump administration. It's not stupidity to admit that we don't know what we don't know. Sometimes, it's just humility.

Fman99 Jun 17 2021 07:22 PM Re: Embarrassing Competitive Disadvantage

Nope. No excuses. No justification. If you haven't gotten a vaccine yet, you're ignorant, or stupid, or you're under age 12, or you're age 12-17 and your parents fall into categories 1-2.

nymr83 Jun 17 2021 08:16 PM Re: Embarrassing Competitive Disadvantage

=Fman99 post_id=68335 time=1623979361 user_id=86] Nope. No excuses. No justification. If you haven't gotten a vaccine yet, you're ignorant, or stupid, or you're under age 12, or you're age 12-17 and your parents fall into categories 1-2.

Or you have serious medical conditions and your doctor has recommended against it?

Ceetar Jun 17 2021 08:24 PM Re: Embarrassing Competitive Disadvantage

=nymr83 post_id=68347 time=1623982581 user_id=54] =Fman99 post_id=68335 time=1623979361 user_id=86] Nope. No excuses. No justification. If you haven't gotten a vaccine yet, you're ignorant, or stupid, or you're under age 12, or you're age 12-17 and your parents fall into categories 1-2.

Or you have serious medical conditions and your doctor has recommended against it?


yes, if you're one of the like 12 people that applies to.

batmagadanleadoff Jun 17 2021 08:28 PM Re: Embarrassing Competitive Disadvantage

I don't see what's so unreasonable about worrying whether or not the covid vaccines needed to go through more testing before being approved. Bad side effects might take a year or even more to manifest themselves.

Willets Point Jun 17 2021 08:58 PM Re: Embarrassing Competitive Disadvantage

Bad side effects manifest themselves in a day or two after vaccination. I could actually understand a MLB players, especially one on the bubble, not wanting to risk missing games because of bad side effects. But it's June. They really have to take the plunge sometime soon.

batmagadanleadoff Jun 17 2021 09:20 PM Re: Embarrassing Competitive Disadvantage

Willets Point wrote: Bad side effects manifest themselves in a day or two after vaccination. I could actually understand a MLB players, especially one on the bubble, not wanting to risk missing games because of bad side effects. But it's June. They really have to take the plunge sometime soon. Or sometimes a month or so. But I get your main point and also agree with you. But so long as science can't definitively rule out the possibility of long term side effects, there are gonna be people reluctant to get a covid vaccine because of these fears, not only because of the expedited approval process but because covid vaccines are brand new with not much of a track record. We're not talking about vaccines with the history of, say, a polio vaccine.

Fman99 Jun 18 2021 07:10 AM Re: Embarrassing Competitive Disadvantage

=Ceetar post_id=68348 time=1623983056 user_id=102] =nymr83 post_id=68347 time=1623982581 user_id=54] =Fman99 post_id=68335 time=1623979361 user_id=86] Nope. No excuses. No justification. If you haven't gotten a vaccine yet, you're ignorant, or stupid, or you're under age 12, or you're age 12-17 and your parents fall into categories 1-2.

Or you have serious medical conditions and your doctor has recommended against it?


yes, if you're one of the like 12 people that applies to.


Yep, sure, those folks too.



Though agreed this is a pretty minute subset of people.



I also forgot to excuse people who do not have skin, and people who are partially living on ethereal planes of existence. And people stuck inside their televisions on channels not broadcasting.

Lefty Specialist Jun 18 2021 08:32 AM Re: Embarrassing Competitive Disadvantage

=nymr83 post_id=68347 time=1623982581 user_id=54] =Fman99 post_id=68335 time=1623979361 user_id=86] Nope. No excuses. No justification. If you haven't gotten a vaccine yet, you're ignorant, or stupid, or you're under age 12, or you're age 12-17 and your parents fall into categories 1-2.

Or you have serious medical conditions and your doctor has recommended against it?

And that's MORE reason to boo people like Sam Darnold, because they put those people at risk.

bmfc1 Jun 18 2021 08:35 AM Re: Embarrassing Competitive Disadvantage

As a Jets fan, I know that Darnold is not good at making decisions.

kcmets Jun 18 2021 08:35 AM Re: Embarrassing Competitive Disadvantage

Until tens of thousands start losing their finger nails and blood is pouring out of their ears and grow third and fourth eyebrows I'm in Camp-Vaccine-Is-Safe. Can't wait to hear Fauci's eyebrow explanation, that'll be a hoot.

A Boy Named Seo Jun 18 2021 09:14 AM Re: Embarrassing Competitive Disadvantage

There's at least one other category - minorities and immigrants who have a DEEP distrust of the federal government, especially under it's most recent steward. I have a couple people in my circle who are Mexican immigrants and they feel like the last prez did everything in his power to erase them from America so they're not rushing to get stuck with his emergency vaccine. I wish they'd get jabbed, but, shit, I kinda get it, too.

kcmets Jun 18 2021 09:42 AM Re: Embarrassing Competitive Disadvantage

A Boy Named Seo wrote: There's at least one other category - minorities and immigrants who have a DEEP distrust of the federal government, especially under it's most recent steward. I have a couple people in my circle who are Mexican immigrants and they feel like the last prez did everything in his power to erase them from America so they're not rushing to get stuck with his emergency vaccine. I wish they'd get jabbed, but, shit, I kinda get it, too. My city has a large non-citizen Ecuadorian population. I've read on fb community pages that many are reluctant to get shot for fear of the gubment. The fears are generally unfounded because we are a sanctuary city but I get it. I also don't know what's required ID-wise at say a CVS versus a health-care provider when getting a shot. I had to give a social security number and photo ID. Kinda hard to do when you have neither so not sure how that all works here.

nymr83 Jun 18 2021 10:01 AM Re: Embarrassing Competitive Disadvantage

Lefty Specialist wrote: Nope. No excuses. No justification. If you haven't gotten a vaccine yet, you're ignorant, or stupid, or you're under age 12, or you're age 12-17 and your parents fall into categories 1-2. Or you have serious medical conditions and your doctor has recommended against it? And that's MORE reason to boo people like Sam Darnold, because they put those people at risk. I'm all for booing Darnold. I wonder if states could start fucking with opposing sports teams by requiring vaccination. For example if New Jersey said "nobody can be in a sports stadium with more than 1,000 people unless they are vaccinated. period. no exceptions for players" - the league may not be able to make this rule but why couldnt the state?

nymr83 Jun 18 2021 10:02 AM Re: Embarrassing Competitive Disadvantage

A Boy Named Seo wrote: There's at least one other category - minorities and immigrants who have a DEEP distrust of the federal government, especially under it's most recent steward. I have a couple people in my circle who are Mexican immigrants and they feel like the last prez did everything in his power to erase them from America so they're not rushing to get stuck with his emergency vaccine. I wish they'd get jabbed, but, shit, I kinda get it, too. My city has a large non-citizen Ecuadorian population. I've read on fb community pages that many are reluctant to get shot for fear of the gubment. The fears are generally unfounded because we are a sanctuary city but I get it. I also don't know what's required ID-wise at say a CVS versus a health-care provider when getting a shot. I had to give a social security number and photo ID. Kinda hard to do when you have neither so not sure how that all works here. Trump had nothing to do with the Tuskegee experiments, the distrust of government amongst blacks in particular on the issue of vaccination/medical treatment is not Trump related, but i'm sure it makes you feel good to blame him for everything.

kcmets Jun 18 2021 10:17 AM Re: Embarrassing Competitive Disadvantage

Where did I mention Trump? By gubment I meant local city gubment. And again, while that fear is understandable, it's unfounded because citizenship is not an issue here and it is ignored by city hall and the (city, county and state) police.

A Boy Named Seo Jun 18 2021 10:17 AM Re: Embarrassing Competitive Disadvantage

It does feel good to blame him, thanks. Seriously, man, that bigot spent his entire life and presidential term pretending racism isn't real and you think any Black distrust in the vaccine tied to him is unfounded. Cool story, bro.

A Boy Named Seo Jun 18 2021 10:19 AM Re: Embarrassing Competitive Disadvantage

=kcmets post_id=68377 time=1624033046 user_id=53] Where did I mention Trump? By gubment I meant local city gubment. And again, while that fear is understandable, it's unfounded because citizenship is not an issue here and it is ignored by city hall and the (city, county and state) police.

Citizenship here isn't an issue either, but folks are still hesitant to register because they don't know what happens to their info. I get that fear, even if it feels a little unfounded to some of us.

kcmets Jun 18 2021 10:26 AM Re: Embarrassing Competitive Disadvantage

I know, and unfounded probably wasn't the best choice or words.

A Boy Named Seo Jun 18 2021 10:38 AM Re: Embarrassing Competitive Disadvantage

It's cool. I think I got what you meant, KC.

G-Fafif Jun 18 2021 10:48 AM Re: Embarrassing Competitive Disadvantage

This just in. All fully vaccinated players and staff can stop wearing masks in dugouts, bullpens and clubhouses under the latest change to Major League Baseball's coronavirus protocols. In addition, fully vaccinated players and staff may eat in restaurants without restrictions and attend sporting events as spectators at venues with government approved safety protocols, the commissioner's office and players' association said in a memo sent Wednesday night. Kinexon electronic tracing devices and monitor testing are being eliminated, and compliance officers no longer have to accompany teams on trips. Social distancing and mask requirements have been eliminated for team busses involving fully vaccinated players and staff, and players and staff can resume arriving at clubhouses more than five hours before game time. Unvaccinated and partially vaccinated players and staff still must wear masks, but it will not be considered a violation to remove or pull down the mask to briefly eat or drink, before entering or leaving a shower or at the direction of the medical or training staff. Clubhouse social distancing was eliminated for all teams reaching 85% vaccination among tier 1 individuals such as players, managers, coaches and training staff. As of last Friday, 22 of the 30 teams had reached 85% among tier 1 individuals. Restrictions on team individuals dining together also were eliminated, with the exception that non-vaccinated individuals must still wear masks when not eating or drinking. https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/31654879/mlb-relaxes-covid-protocol-restrictions-vaccinated-players-staff

Lefty Specialist Jun 18 2021 11:25 AM Re: Embarrassing Competitive Disadvantage

For the vaccine-hesitant, there have been some 200 million jabs in America already and there are no mass deaths. Unlike the 600,000 who've died of this disease. I get the distrust of government. I get Tuskeegee experiments. I get marginalizing minorities. But everyone has to do a risk-reward calculation at some point. A doctor put it this way: You're going to get vaccinated one way or the other, either through a shot or by getting the disease itself. And the variants are out there lurking, so don't think you're immune just because you haven't got it yet.

Benjamin Grimm Jun 18 2021 11:30 AM Re: Embarrassing Competitive Disadvantage

Tucker Carlson told his viewers that 4,000 people in the United States have died as a result of getting the vaccine. So while nobody has actually died from getting vaccinated, there are a lot of people who think otherwise.

Edgy MD Jun 18 2021 11:42 AM Re: Embarrassing Competitive Disadvantage

A Boy Named Seo wrote: There's at least one other category - minorities and immigrants who have a DEEP distrust of the federal government, especially under it's most recent steward. I have a couple people in my circle who are Mexican immigrants and they feel like the last prez did everything in his power to erase them from America so they're not rushing to get stuck with his emergency vaccine. I wish they'd get jabbed, but, shit, I kinda get it, too. My city has a large non-citizen Ecuadorian population. I've read on fb community pages that many are reluctant to get shot for fear of the gubment. The fears are generally unfounded because we are a sanctuary city but I get it. I also don't know what's required ID-wise at say a CVS versus a health-care provider when getting a shot. I had to give a social security number and photo ID. Kinda hard to do when you have neither so not sure how that all works here. Trump had nothing to do with the Tuskegee experiments, the distrust of government amongst blacks in particular on the issue of vaccination/medical treatment is not Trump related, but i'm sure it makes you feel good to blame him for everything. I don't know how the Tuskegee experiments come into this, but that's hardly the last time black Americans were betrayed by the state. I really don't even know when this became about African Americans. Neither of the posts you quote refers to that population. I wish this wouldn't be personal. I think most or all of us want to do what's right here.

Ceetar Jun 18 2021 11:54 AM Re: Embarrassing Competitive Disadvantage

I don't see what's so unreasonable about worrying whether or not the covid vaccines needed to go through more testing before being approved. Bad side effects might take a year or even more to manifest themselves. why? what science is there to suggest there's any reason to think something about any of these vaccines has that capability? It again comes down to education, and evil people manipulating their cult members for political gain. Tucker Carlson is a white supremacist, but he's apparently convincing a whole lot of people to be unsafe. The minority community distrust is obviously fair. We've done irreparable harm over the years, especially the last 4. This is a systemic problem, and it's not unrelated to the Carlson thing. Those are probably some of the groups these various incentive programs are helpful for (and should've been started way earlier, with better education/targeting). "Look, I know you don't trust the docs, but just come to this CVS for a quick shot and we'll give you a joint and a bottle of vodka" goes a long way. Also that doesn't really apply to sports/baseball. Almost universally, even the immigrants, those people are just taking random nonsense from the trainer with much less information/study than the vaccine.

Edgy MD Jun 18 2021 12:06 PM Re: Embarrassing Competitive Disadvantage

There are plenty of scientifically documented cases of vaccines backfiring — particular when people are under enormous pressure, careless, and/or shortsighted by ambition. Plenty. Polio vaccines have saved millions of lives, but there are also polio vaccines that have given people polio, and killed them. There are dengue vaccines that have created a more dangerous, more resistant strain of dengue. I certainly don't watch Tucker Carlson, so I don't know if he's using these cases as propaganda, but I've worked long enough in the global health industry to know these cases are real and terrifying. A mistake that costs 15 lives is one or two small bad decisions (possibly made by good people) away from being a mistake that costs 150,000. I'm not suggesting to anybody not to get vaccinated. I'm vaccinated and I'm glad my wife is too, for our benefit and the benefit of those we will be coming into contact with. My godmother has been hospitalized for months fighting COVID. I lost two mothers last year and I don't want a third to die. I wish to God she had gotten vaccinated in time. I'm also butting heads with a social media crackpot claiming (and refusing to offer any supporting documentation) that the Gates foundation has been kicked out of India and many African nations over their (his) vaccination policies. I think people who have opted to not get vaccinated have made a bad decision. But no, I'm not going to belittle them. I wish all our decisions were a black-and-white thing. In a nation of hot takes, we're certainly asked to believe that, but the world is a complicated place.

Ceetar Jun 18 2021 12:41 PM Re: Embarrassing Competitive Disadvantage

The Polio vaccine problems was nearly 70 years ago. If it's relevant in any way, it's in an example of mistakes we made and learned from. As for the Dengue thing, it seems particularly complicated and political. There appears to be reports that the Dengvaxia vaccine has saved and estimated million lives. It's approved for sale in 19 countries. BUT political controversy and perhaps sloppy trial and study seem to have contributed to this unwarranted vaccine hesitancy in the Philippines which may have led to a measles outbreak and 400 deaths. Neither of these, btw, were issues that showed up years later. Even the dengvaxia problems, the small chance it could actually create a WORSE dengue infection, was found pretty early. They're both also related to the thing they're trying to cure. It's not like they discovered that taking dengvaxia makes you more susceptible to Coronavirus or something. That's the straw man most 'hesitant' people seem to be referring to when they argue that it was rushed. it wasn't, it's the culmination of decades of scientific research. There were people arguing that it SHOULD have been rushed even, right around when stage 2 trials finished. But all the evidence on the ground points to extreme caution and adhering to the scientific process. Even the J&J pause that was criticized by many, was overly cautious. There's really no evidence based reason to be hesitant. Maybe I'd buy it months from now, if we've actually reduced cases to almost zero, that you want to wait a year or two to vaccinate your 4 year old because it's not longer a pandemic and a large (but non-zero!) percentage of four year olds aren't really at a risk of infection, of spreading it, or long term side effects. (Not me, my kids are going to be first in line) There is almost no tangible reward in a risk/reward calculation. The risk is astronomical. Like on one hand it's "new global disease like the flu that we constantly battle for decades or more" and on the other it's "uh, maybe one day it'll make me sicker or something?" It'd be like being on a beach in the summer and deciding not to drink anything because it might make you feel bloated and then you'd sink and drown.

Edgy MD Jun 18 2021 01:08 PM Re: Embarrassing Competitive Disadvantage

I don't get how can say there's no evidence after acknowledging there's evidence, but it's not so bad. Remember, I agree with you. And then you put a bunch of things in quotes that nobody has said.

Lefty Specialist Jun 18 2021 01:12 PM Re: Embarrassing Competitive Disadvantage

Benjamin Grimm wrote: Tucker Carlson told his viewers that 4,000 people in the United States have died as a result of getting the vaccine. So while nobody has actually died from getting vaccinated, there are a lot of people who think otherwise. You also have to believe the corollary, that nobody has actually died of Covid. Which of course his viewers would. I'd like to think of this as the Darwin Principle in action. And I can guarantee you ol' Tucker cut the line to get himself vaccinated.

Frayed Knot Jun 18 2021 02:29 PM Re: Embarrassing Competitive Disadvantage

Back to the topic at hand for a moment: the team being under 85% immunized is also a factor in keeping the broadcast teams working remotely rather than traveling with the clubs.

batmagadanleadoff Jun 18 2021 03:02 PM Re: Embarrassing Competitive Disadvantage

Trump had nothing to do with the Tuskegee experiments, the distrust of government amongst blacks in particular on the issue of vaccination/medical treatment is not Trump related, but i'm sure it makes you feel good to blame him for everything. Trump had nothing to do with the Tuskegee experiments but are you defending Trump's covid response, which was the absolute worst in the advanced world? Or did you forget about let's see if we can all ingest some bleach, the mask shaming, the fuck NY and its covid problem because NY is a blue state, the total lack of a coordinated national covid response, Jared in charge, Jared!, etc., etc., etc. Or maybe you're defending his stance against immigrants. I don't need to go there. [FIMG=333]https://media.vanityfair.com/photos/5f9c1445d070eec8d50f0fce/master/pass/Miller10.30.jpg[/FIMG] ________________________ Opinion: Black people are justifiably wary of a vaccine. Their trust must be earned. https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/black-people-are-justifiably-wary-of-a-vaccine-their-trust-must-be-earned/2020/12/09/4cf5f18c-3a36-11eb-9276-ae0ca72729be_story.html?itid=lk_inline_manual_10

A Boy Named Seo Jun 18 2021 03:22 PM Re: Embarrassing Competitive Disadvantage

Frayed Knot wrote: Back to the topic at hand for a moment: the team being under 85% immunized is also a factor in keeping the broadcast teams working remotely rather than traveling with the clubs. What moves the needle at this point? For wealthy young men, there's no monetary incentive like some states are doing. If dudes are still really hardline against it, I don't know what changes that if the club isn't really trying to persuade them. The booth might be working part-time for a while. At least Keith's Ring doorbell is working so he doesn't miss any UPS deliveries.

bmfc1 Jul 15 2021 02:46 PM Re: Embarrassing Competitive Disadvantage

Tonight's BOS-MFY game has been postponed b/c of Covid issues on the MFYs, who haven't hit the 85% mark (like the Mets). Per Martino, not even winning the pennant will sway some of the Mets from taking the vaccine: https://www.sny.tv/articles/delta-variant-risk-mets-vaccination-efforts-players Maybe it's time to name them. Let them explain to the fans why they think that they know more than the Doctors and are willing to put the team's pennant chances in jeopardy as well as the health of their teammates, their families, the team's staff and, employees.

Edgy MD Jul 15 2021 03:10 PM Re: Embarrassing Competitive Disadvantage

That would be against the law.

MFS62 Jul 15 2021 03:11 PM Re: Embarrassing Competitive Disadvantage

=bmfc1 post_id=71403 time=1626382000 user_id=73] Maybe it's time to name them. Let them explain to the fans why they think that they know more than the Doctors and are willing to put the team's pennant chances in jeopardy as well as the health of their teammates, their families, the team's staff and, employees.

That raises an interest point. HIPAA protects a person's medical history(e.g. - diagnoses, illnesses, treatments) So, according to the law, the teams cannot divulge which players took the shot.

But does the law prohibit anyone divulging a non-treatment (not taking the shot)? Anyone know for sure?

OE: Posting when Edgy gave his response.



Later

kcmets Jul 15 2021 03:29 PM Re: Embarrassing Competitive Disadvantage

=bmfc1 post_id=71403 time=1626382000 user_id=73] Tonight's BOS-MFY game has been postponed b/c of Covid issues on the MFYs

There was no game schedule for tonight. I see Cashman is giving a presser but I can't

bring myself to unmute the TV so I'm in the dark here...

bmfc1 Jul 15 2021 03:55 PM Re: Embarrassing Competitive Disadvantage

There was one game scheduled for tonight and it won't be played. As far as being against the law, thank you but that wasn't the point. Martino knows so others know. I want to know who is acting against my team's best interests. [TWEET]https://twitter.com/MarlyRiveraESPN/status/1415790274073272330[/TWEET]

batmagadanleadoff Jul 15 2021 04:00 PM Re: Embarrassing Competitive Disadvantage

Well Martino's not gonna expose himself to liability just so we could know. Also, nobody said it was a player that tested positive. Just noticing. Not ruling it out.

kcmets Jul 15 2021 04:26 PM Re: Embarrassing Competitive Disadvantage

Jonathan Loaisiga, Nestor Cortes Jr. and Wandy Peralta have tested positive so far. Supposedly there are others on the back burner they may announce down the road.

bmfc1 Jul 15 2021 04:27 PM Re: Embarrassing Competitive Disadvantage

Maybe it's not such a secret: [TWEET]https://twitter.com/martinonyc/status/1415798840054194179[/TWEET]

Frayed Knot Jul 15 2021 05:10 PM Re: Embarrassing Competitive Disadvantage

By saying "not all" he's not naming anyone because that phrase could mean anything from just one of that group isn't vaccinated, to all five aren't, or anywhere in between.

Edgy MD Jul 15 2021 05:39 PM Re: Embarrassing Competitive Disadvantage

His implication seems to be that The All-Star Break festivities could end up being, if not a super-spreader, a spreader of some sort. Wouldn't be weird stupid if the Mets end up getting a competitive advantage by only having one guy in the NL locker room?

Ceetar Jul 15 2021 05:43 PM Re: Embarrassing Competitive Disadvantage

Martino is not a doctor and is not bound by Hipaa. neither, btw, are the Mets, MLB, or any employer. (hence why they can tell us with reckless abandon that so and so has a stress fracture, a UCL tear, etc) the Yankees ARE at 85%, though the one symptomatic outbreak was not. I don't know if that's Judge or not, but ... [TWEET]https://twitter.com/MajorLeagueGIFs/status/1415100544255987717[/TWEET]

Edgy MD Jul 15 2021 05:45 PM Re: Embarrassing Competitive Disadvantage

=Ceetar post_id=71426 time=1626392591 user_id=102]neither, btw, are the Mets, MLB, or any employer.

This is just not true.

Ceetar Jul 15 2021 05:52 PM Re: Embarrassing Competitive Disadvantage

If a player wants to get the vaccine on their own and not tell the team, they're welcome to do that, and the team can't demand the medical record, but they CAN demand proof of vaccination so a bit of a catch 22 there. If you get the vaccine offered to you by your boss, that's not privileged information. Likely the CBA or the employment contract grants the team certain rights when it's THEIR doctor treating you. But if you tell your boss "yeah, I'm vaxxed" they can tweet that freely and legally. They can certainly tell the media that. They're certainly allowed access to the people that sign up for a vaccine program they set up on their property during their working hours. [attachment=0]hipaa.jpg[/attachment]

Gwreck Jul 15 2021 05:55 PM Re: Embarrassing Competitive Disadvantage

=Ceetar post_id=71426 time=1626392591 user_id=102] Martino is not a doctor and is not bound by Hipaa. neither, btw, are the Mets, MLB, or any employer.

This is absolutely and unequivocally wrong. “Any employer”?? No.

Ceetar Jul 15 2021 06:04 PM Re: Embarrassing Competitive Disadvantage

I mean, should I believe you, or the hhs.gov website? geeze.

Edgy MD Jul 15 2021 06:33 PM Re: Embarrassing Competitive Disadvantage

Being more condescending is not helping. It's just a bad play.

Ceetar Jul 15 2021 06:47 PM Re: Embarrassing Competitive Disadvantage

so is responding to facts with _no, that's definitely wrong_ But go ahead, call me condescending for posting facts and getting bristly when they're ignored instead of just bowing out and admitting you were wrong.

Edgy MD Jul 15 2021 07:00 PM Re: Embarrassing Competitive Disadvantage

so is responding to facts with _no, that's definitely wrong_ "So is..." nothing. This is two wrongs make a right logic. Please don't use that. But go ahead, call me condescending for posting facts and getting bristly when they're ignored instead of just bowing out and admitting you were wrong. No, that's not why I used that descriptor. You certainly know that.

Ceetar Jul 15 2021 07:10 PM Re: Embarrassing Competitive Disadvantage

stop tone shaming me because I got snippy because I bothered to look something up to cite it and got ignored. There are no rules of engagement, I"ll use whatever damn tone I like. The Mets could fucking have the Goodyear blimp hover over Citi Field with the names of the unvaccinated players, and hell, the rest of the Tier 1 staff, on rotation if they wanted to.

Edgy MD Jul 15 2021 07:49 PM Re: Embarrassing Competitive Disadvantage

Oh, yes, there are rules of engagement. I wrote them. Really, the first is to not be awful. It's not hard and it's certainly not too much to ask.

batmagadanleadoff Jul 15 2021 08:05 PM Re: Embarrassing Competitive Disadvantage

=Ceetar post_id=71429 time=1626393137 user_id=102] If a player wants to get the vaccine on their own and not tell the team, they're welcome to do that, and the team can't demand the medical record, but they CAN demand proof of vaccination so a bit of a catch 22 there.

I'm only guessing here, but my hunch is that this is not true. I would guess that a team has the right to know about every single iota and molecule of medical treatment its players receive. Basic logic tells me that it has to be this way. Teams aren't gonna pay their players the vast fortunes that they do and be kept in the dark about their medical status. I'd guess that the team has the right to know if a player seeks medical treatment for something as minor as a chipped fingernail.

MFS62 Jul 15 2021 08:33 PM Re: Embarrassing Competitive Disadvantage

ESPN reporting that Aaron Judge is under "COVID protocol." Later

Ceetar Jul 16 2021 07:24 AM Re: Embarrassing Competitive Disadvantage

ESPN reporting that Aaron Judge is under "COVID protocol." Later sue them

batmagadanleadoff Jul 16 2021 01:00 PM Re: Embarrassing Competitive Disadvantage

ESPN reporting that Aaron Judge is under "COVID protocol." Later sue them [FIMG=444]https://i.pinimg.com/originals/c3/07/50/c3075056fc7a80f266d78517e62bf1a8.gif[/FIMG]

Frayed Knot Jul 16 2021 02:56 PM Re: Embarrassing Competitive Disadvantage

If ESPN is merely reporting on things already reported by others (which is what they often do while trying to claim credit as the source anyway) then they couldn't be held responsible for crossing the lines no matter what the rules are. Newly on the NYY Covid IL are Judge, Higoshioka, and Urshela. Neither of the other two were in Denver this week AFAIK

batmagadanleadoff Jul 16 2021 03:03 PM Re: Embarrassing Competitive Disadvantage Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Jul 16 2021 03:06 PM

Frayed Knot wrote: If ESPN is merely reporting on things already reported by others (which is what they often do while trying to claim credit as the source anyway) then they couldn't be held responsible for crossing the lines no matter what the rules are. Newly on the NYY Covid IL are Judge, Higoshioka, and Urshela. Neither of the other two were in Denver this week AFAIK Assuming for the sake of this post that the media does not have the right to publicize a person's medical records without that person's consent, ESPN could be liable for reporting private and confidential medical information that another news outlet already reported. One could even make the legal argument that ESPN should bear even greater liability if its circulation is far greater than that of the original broadcaster.

batmagadanleadoff Jul 16 2021 03:05 PM Re: Embarrassing Competitive Disadvantage

Frayed Knot wrote: If ESPN is merely reporting on things already reported by others (which is what they often do while trying to claim credit as the source anyway) then they couldn't be held responsible for crossing the lines no matter what the rules are. Newly on the NYY Covid IL are Judge, Higoshioka, and Urshela. Neither of the other two were in Denver this week AFAIK Assuming for the sake of this post that the media does not have the right to publicize a person's medical records without that person's consent, ESPN could be liable for reporting private and confidential medical information that another news outlet already reported. One could even make the legal argument that ESPN should bear even greater liability if its circulation is far greater than that of the original broadcaster. What would be the logic for it suddenly being open season for all media outlets to publish confidential information just because one outlet erred?

Benjamin Grimm Jul 16 2021 03:07 PM Re: Embarrassing Competitive Disadvantage

Well, I guess that instead of reporting that a particular player has COVID, ESPN can report that The Daily Siftings Herald in Arkadelphia, Arkansas is reporting that the player has COVID.

batmagadanleadoff Jul 16 2021 03:11 PM Re: Embarrassing Competitive Disadvantage

Benjamin Grimm wrote: Well, I guess that instead of reporting that a particular player has COVID, ESPN can report that The Daily Siftings Herald in Arkadelphia, Arkansas is reporting that the player has COVID. Well, my post was just a hypo. It appears that the media isn't bound by HIPAA rules. (nods to Ceets) Which makes sense, intuitively. It sounds fair for the press to report that so and so has Covid. My post really applies to something like libel, or some factually incorrect statement that is legally harmful to somebody.

Edgy MD Jul 16 2021 03:24 PM Re: Embarrassing Competitive Disadvantage

Reporting that somebody is unavailable due to COVID protocols is pretty much what's been going on all along the last two seasons. I'm not sure why it's remarkable at this point. It doesn't mean that somebody has COVID, but it places that possibility high on a very short list of likelihoods. Folks can and will draw their own conclusions, and maybe the player will elect to be more forthcoming, and life goes on.

Frayed Knot Jul 16 2021 04:57 PM Re: Embarrassing Competitive Disadvantage

=batmagadanleadoff post_id=71502 time=1626469433 user_id=68] Assuming for the sake of this post that the media does not have the right to publicize a person's medical records without that person's consent, ESPN could be liable for reporting private and confidential medical information that another news outlet already reported. One could even make the legal argument that ESPN should bear even greater liability if its circulation is far greater than that of the original broadcaster.

Depends on what they're reporting and how they're reporting it.



If I run with a story saying that BatMags is being investigated for child molestation charges then I better have some pretty damn good sources to back that up or I'm looking at all kinds of legal issues.

But if I'm merely citing that the Sacramento Bee is reporting that same story then I'm merely stating something which is already public knowledge rather than claiming I have knowledge of it myself

and therefore much less legally at risk. (You'd probably need to prove that I knew the Sac Bee story to be false when I cited it but chose to go ahead anyway ... and good luck with that)



Like I said earlier, the four-letter network has a history of trying to play both sides of the fence sometimes -- seeming to claim credit for a story that was broken elsewhere and only belatedly, or

partially, or (in years past) never crediting the original source -- so it might be tough to tell just from their initial report which it is ... but that's mostly a side issue at this point.

Willets Point Jul 16 2021 06:01 PM Re: Embarrassing Competitive Disadvantage

The Bronx Superspreaders facing an early 3-0 deficit to the Red Sox tonight.

bmfc1 Jul 21 2021 09:37 AM Re: Embarrassing Competitive Disadvantage

Two O's were put on the Covid-IL today. This adds to the MFYs, Phillies, and Rockies who had to recently take the same action. The Covid rate is getting worse and I'd like to think that more of our guys would get the vaccine but it doesn't appear that they will. Nola returns to the Phillies this week after getting Covid and still refuses to get the shot. I read that the Phillies are only at 50% vaccinated.

bmfc1 Oct 08 2021 06:28 AM Re: Embarrassing Competitive Disadvantage

From The Athletic, today: [BLOCKQUOTE]MLB this season tried to incentivize teams to get vaccinated by introducing relaxed restrictions for clubs whose “Tier 1” personnel, which includes players and coaches, were at least 85 percent vaccinated. Twenty-four of 30 teams reached that mark during the season (although after June, only one new team, the Phillies, joined the ranks). The six teams that remained below the 85 percent threshold were the Cubs, Diamondbacks, Mariners, Mets, Royals and Red Sox. Overall, 87 percent of Tier 1 staff in the sport were vaccinated by season's end, per MLB's count. https://theathletic.com/2875451/2021/10/07/mlb-fined-140-players-for-mask-violations-in-2021-every-appeal-was-denied-irking-some-players/[/BLOCKQUOTE] Selfish assholes. Yeah, I'm talking about my team.

Edgy MD Oct 08 2021 07:50 AM Re: Embarrassing Competitive Disadvantage

I'm wondering how much of that 15+% was represented by the now-cleaned-out coaching staff.