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Beane Counter

Yes

9 votes

Hell, yes

2 votes

No

0 votes

Johnny Lunchbucket Sep 27 2021 03:25 PM

So, lots of speculation about the possibility of the Mets hiring Billy Beane. I gotta say, I love it as an idea more than, say, Theo Epstein. He's got the Sandy connection, the Mets' glory days heritage etc.

MFS62 Sep 27 2021 04:06 PM Re: Beane Counter

From a baseball sense, hell yes. But when I read "Sandy connection" I cringe a bit, considering some of his non-player choices. Sandy has proven to be a better judge of talent than he is a judge of character. So I dropped it to yes. Later

Ceetar Sep 27 2021 04:43 PM Re: Beane Counter

I'm a little concerned, though not surprised, that so much of the chatter is 'flashy names'. Not hearing a lot of "Mets are interesting in this unknown under the radar (man) from Boston, they're just waiting for permission to chat officially"

kcmets Sep 27 2021 04:47 PM Re: Beane Counter

I took yes (more like, why not?,) would be fine with a Theo too. Won't be disappointed if it's someone else that everyone else thinks is acceptable. No further elaboration will be provided at the present time nor in the near future.

Edgy MD Sep 27 2021 05:00 PM Re: Beane Counter

I'm all for it. I feel like a whole host of organizations who think of themselves as analytically forward-thinking are chasing market imbalances from 20 years ago. Others acknowledge the numbers that work against a decision, but assure themselves that they are smarter than the numbers. A new environment and staff for Beane could really help to reset the assumption base, and give him a new look at where the market imbalances have moved toward, and markets move all the time. As for his character, if you consider Sandy Alderson hiring somebody as a taint, then that same factor would work against anybody they hire, as Alderson is still the president. If anything, I'd consider his status as a 1985 Met (if only for a few weeks) more incriminating. But he's had a long track record in the public eye, and the Mets know they are being closely watched, so they'd have to be really trying to miss any red flags.

Marshmallowmilkshake Sep 27 2021 05:08 PM Re: Beane Counter

Didn't Theo hire both Jared Porter and Zack Scott during his previous gigs?

Ceetar Sep 27 2021 09:08 PM Re: Beane Counter

Edgy MD wrote: so they'd have to be really trying to miss any red flags. It's not so much that they miss the red flags, it's that they are aggressively pursuing them, despite multiple people waving the flags in their faces. GM is only gonna be as good as the people around him. Maybe a new guy aggressively hires, but that's not going to happen immediately. We occasionally here a bit on the analytics/advisors front, and it's been okay, but I don't know if we, the public, know enough about it to say that they're good and being ignored, or they're missing something critical and aren't particularly adding much. (This is almost impossible to tell, because the specific nature of team-facing analytics is extremely secretive, so no one's comparing the Mets database to the Red Sox, as much as I'd like to) I'm not hopeful if these are the guys advising Rojas' lineups, but a lot of his justifications for them, or bullpen moves, seem pretty in the "manager's gut" realm to me.

Edgy MD Sep 27 2021 10:41 PM Re: Beane Counter

Edgy MD wrote: so they'd have to be really trying to miss any red flags. It's not so much that they miss the red flags, it's that they are aggressively pursuing them, despite multiple people waving the flags in their faces. You write a lot of things. The idea that the Mets aren't failing in their professional obligations, so much as succeeding in their active and intentional pursuit of sex offenders is ... well, that's a new and different thing.

Ceetar Sep 28 2021 06:33 AM Re: Beane Counter

Mets employee: "Here's a red flag for that hire" Sandy: "meh" Mets employee; "Here's a red flag for that same hire" Sandy: "noted." *Hires employee anyway" Mets employees goes to HR. HR Lady: "This isn't important, go away." It's NOT a new and different thing. It's the thing.

Edgy MD Sep 28 2021 07:35 AM Re: Beane Counter

Ceetar: Writing things I don't know and assuming they're true. Not only is that stuff you made up, but it's inconsistent with the previous stuff you made up.

Ceetar Sep 28 2021 07:48 AM Re: Beane Counter

well, maybe you should pay attention ,because that's how it was reported. Obviously the specific words were mine, but the situation was not. The Mets employees said "don't hire that fucking sex creep" and Sandy hired him anyway. Go ahead and try to explain to me how that's not intentional pursuit of sex creeps. Or are you arguing semantics again?

Edgy MD Sep 28 2021 08:02 AM Re: Beane Counter

Please don't presume to address me in the imperative. Ever. If you object to creeps, I'd really beg you to stop being one.

Ceetar Sep 28 2021 08:13 AM Re: Beane Counter

You started this. You said the Mets would have to try hard to miss red flags, and I merely clarified that they've given no indication that they're trying to miss them. This is a true statement, and they certainly don't deserve the benefit of the doubt that they're going to change in the future. How many sexist workplace cultures does Cohen have to own before it reflects poorly on him? But even aside that, that was like one sentence of a whole point that you singled out and tried to pick apart, but nothing you said shed any light on anything, so I'm not even sure what the point is.

Benjamin Grimm Sep 28 2021 08:17 AM Re: Beane Counter

And it should go without saying that being indifferent to whether or not someone is a "sex creep" is different from intentionally seeking to hire "sex creeps" as Ceetar is alleging.

Ceetar Sep 28 2021 08:28 AM Re: Beane Counter

meaningless semantics! They chose the sex creeps! Not _because_ they were, obviously. What's the point in clarifying that? With Bauer you could make the case that the production outweighs the harassment (which is a broader problem with the sport, the media covering it, and the fans themselves), but hiring rando front office guys that make the workplace toxic when you could choose from literally anyone else in the whole world is very clearly CHOOSING to hire a sex creep. It's malicious and cruel and anyone that does that in ANY JOB should be fired immediately.

Edgy MD Sep 28 2021 08:38 AM Re: Beane Counter

=Ceetar post_id=78738 time=1632838421 user_id=102] You started this.

Funniest ever.

Edgy MD Sep 28 2021 08:40 AM Re: Beane Counter

They chose the sex creeps! Not _because_ they were, obviously. I hope you would consider re-reading your posts before hitting "Submit." It would save us all so much time and energy.

Ceetar Sep 28 2021 08:48 AM Re: Beane Counter

THEY HIRED SEX CREEPS INTENTIONALLY how many times do i have to write it before YOU read it?

Edgy MD Sep 28 2021 08:51 AM Re: Beane Counter

Anybody else?

Benjamin Grimm Sep 28 2021 08:57 AM Re: Beane Counter

You said that they were seeking out sex creeps, as if that were one of the qualifications of the job. If that's not what you meant, then you shouldn't have said it. This is why Edgy is suggesting that you read your posts before submitting them.

Ceetar Sep 28 2021 09:07 AM Re: Beane Counter

I'm sorry, I didn't use the very specific legal terms to completely clarify a point that's been public knowledge for months. YOU KNOW WHAT I MEANT. especially given the context. This asshole gets none of the benefit of the doubt for 'avoiding red flags' going forward.

Johnny Lunchbucket Sep 28 2021 09:16 AM Re: Beane Counter

No benefit of the doubt, sure. But as i interpret the discussion having been though that disruption of the last year, it is clear more than ever that red flags will have to be watched and Beane's 20 years without them-- the topic of discussion here--speaks to his strengths here.

Ceetar Sep 28 2021 09:25 AM Re: Beane Counter

Beane is still going to answer to Sandy and Steve. We haven't even received confirmation that the Mets no longer employ the offender or the HR lady, nor really any indication that they're going to do better, or how they're going to do better, vetting of candidates.

Marshmallowmilkshake Sep 28 2021 09:36 AM Re: Beane Counter

Did Sandy ever say he was aware of Porter's or Mickey's abuses and hired them anyway? I don't think I've seen that anywhere. They sure did fire Porter quickly when the news was reported. If the Mets checked references and the former employers were aware of this and said nothing, the Mets have a gripe. Clearly MLB as a whole needs to do a better job of stopping this kind of behavior in the first place. We haven't even received confirmation that the Mets no longer employ the offender or the HR lady, Are you saying that the team announced the firings, then secretly not fire them?

Edgy MD Sep 28 2021 09:55 AM Re: Beane Counter

I'm not sure it matters to this conversation, though I certainly hope it does, but yes, we do have confirmation that the "HR lady" is no longer employed by the team. I'm not sure which "offender" (there have sadly been several) we are speaking of, so I cannot speak to that.

Ceetar Sep 28 2021 09:56 AM Re: Beane Counter

cite your sources please re: HR lady.

Marshmallowmilkshake Sep 28 2021 10:00 AM Re: Beane Counter

cite your sources please re: HR lady. [url]https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/mlb/2021/06/21/mets-fire-2-high-ranking-employees-after-workplace-review/46376195/ NEW YORK (AP) — The New York Mets have fired two high-ranking employees and will overhaul their legal and human resources departments on the recommendation of independent investigators hired to review the organization following allegations of sexual misconduct against former manager Mickey Callaway. Callaway, fired in October of 2019 for on-field performance, was banned by Major League Baseball through at least 2022 in May following allegations of inappropriate behavior toward several women who work in sports media, including from his time with the Mets. First-year New York owner Steve Cohen hired law firm WilmerHale in March to review the organization and detailed changes he'll make in an email to employees Monday, saying he wanted “to ensure that our community and culture will always be safe, respectful, and inclusive." The email was obtained by The Associated Press. Executive vice president and chief legal officer David Cohen — no relation to the owner — and senior vice president for human resources and diversity Holly Lindvall will both be let go as Steve Cohen rebuilds the legal and HR departments. David Cohen has been with the Mets since 1995 and Lindvall since 2010. Both will remain with the team during “a transition period,” Cohen wrote.

Ceetar Sep 28 2021 10:04 AM Re: Beane Counter

TRANSITION PERIOD but nevermind, I found it. Lindvall's LinkedIn has July 2021 on her resume, though her title still lists as New YOrk Mets. I don't know about the other guy. I couldn't find any press about whether or not the Mets had followed through, or how long the transition period would be.

Edgy MD Sep 28 2021 10:04 AM Re: Beane Counter

Thank you. According to her LinkedIn profile, Ms. Lindvall's tenure ended in July. https://metsrostercentral.files.wordpress.com/2021/09/screen-shot-2021-09-28-at-12.02.27-pm.png>

Edgy MD Sep 28 2021 10:06 AM Re: Beane Counter

David Newman is still with the team.

kcmets Sep 28 2021 10:10 AM Re: Beane Counter

cite your sources please re: HR lady. It was big news, I'm sure there's a thread or two here... https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/21/sports/baseball/steven-cohen-mets.html

Ceetar Sep 28 2021 10:11 AM Re: Beane Counter

Is it Newman or Cohen? I'm mixing them up but I'm seeing them mixed up in reports too. It's Cohen who was fired for sure, but the reports on who the creep was seem less sure.

Ceetar Sep 28 2021 10:13 AM Re: Beane Counter

Maybe this is my own failing, I just assumed the guy they hired who was harassing women was the one they were firing. That seems NOT to be the case.