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Maybe This Time: Gil Hodges on Another HOF Ballot

G-Fafif Nov 06 2021 09:41 AM

Nine former big league players and one manager comprise the 10-name Golden Days Era ballot to be reviewed and voted upon Dec. 5 at the Baseball Winter Meetings. Dick Allen, Ken Boyer, Gil Hodges, Jim Kaat, Roger Maris, Minnie Miñoso, Danny Murtaugh, Tony Oliva, Billy Pierce and Maury Wills are the candidates the Golden Days Era Committee will consider for Hall of Fame election for the Class of 2022. All candidates are former players except for Murtaugh, who was a manager with the Pittsburgh Pirates. Kaat, Oliva and Wills are living, while all other candidates are deceased. https://baseballhall.org/discover/golden-days-era-ballot-2022

kcmets Nov 06 2021 11:38 AM Re: Maybe This Time: Gil Hodges on Another HOF Ballot

Poor Gil, the Jethro Tull of Halls of Fames...

Edgy MD Nov 06 2021 12:04 PM Re: Maybe This Time: Gil Hodges on Another HOF Ballot

Being the only post-war player in Field of Dreams has to count for something. Amazingly, his legacy was so transcendent that he managed to get recognized by a pre-war teenager.

Willets Point Nov 06 2021 04:50 PM Re: Maybe This Time: Gil Hodges on Another HOF Ballot

I feel like all of those players should be inducted. And before anyone complains about "watering down the Hall of Fame," only 1.1% of all major league players have been inducted. Adding 9 players would bring it 1.2%. I think the Hall can handle that.

kcmets Nov 06 2021 07:06 PM Re: Maybe This Time: Gil Hodges on Another HOF Ballot

Gil Hodges Belongs in the HOF fb page

Edgy MD Nov 06 2021 07:27 PM Re: Maybe This Time: Gil Hodges on Another HOF Ballot

I've never heard anybody make a case for Billy Pierce before. I'm not knocking him or anything. I'm just saying I've heard mostly strong cases for all the other eight players. I'd likely put him behind Koosman, but the two are probably very comparable.

seawolf17 Nov 07 2021 04:33 AM Re: Maybe This Time: Gil Hodges on Another HOF Ballot

Pierce and Maris are the only ones I really quibble with, and maybe Murtaugh because I never quite know how to evaluate managers. But the other seven all make logical sense. But I'm definitely a Big Hall proponent.

Marshmallowmilkshake Nov 07 2021 06:36 AM Re: Maybe This Time: Gil Hodges on Another HOF Ballot

=seawolf17 post_id=80740 time=1636284829 user_id=91] Pierce and Maris are the only ones I really quibble with, and maybe Murtaugh because I never quite know how to evaluate managers. But the other seven all make logical sense. But I'm definitely a Big Hall proponent.

I agree with this!

G-Fafif Dec 02 2021 07:41 AM Gil’s Time

Hodges has earned more Hall of Fame votes than anyone else in history not to eventually be admitted. Soon, he'll have another chance. On Sunday, the Golden Days Era Committee will consider Hodges along with nine other candidates. By one count, it will be the 35th time Hodges is considered for induction. This time, the Hall must set things right. The Hall must end its long miscarriage of justice, and finally enjoy the privilege of having Gil Hodges among its ranks. James Schapiro, born 40 years after the Dodgers left Brooklyn, does a dazzling job laying out the case for Gil, featuring a spate of fresh testimonials from those who knew the man and revere him still. https://sheabridge.substack.com/p/gil-hodges-has-always-belonged-in

Edgy MD Dec 02 2021 09:23 PM Re: Maybe This Time: Gil Hodges on Another HOF Ballot

Worth noting that Wills would be the only one alive to enjoy enshrinement. Probably shouldn't be a factor, but it's probably likely to be a factor.

nymr83 Dec 02 2021 11:16 PM Re: Maybe This Time: Gil Hodges on Another HOF Ballot

Maris you can at least say has the FAME piece down. He is more famous than the test by a mile. I had never heard of Billy Pierce until seeing his name here.

batmagadanleadoff Dec 03 2021 12:06 AM Re: Maybe This Time: Gil Hodges on Another HOF Ballot

Edgy MD wrote: Worth noting that Wills would be the only one alive to enjoy enshrinement. Probably shouldn't be a factor, but it's probably likely to be a factor. "Dick Allen, Ken Boyer, Gil Hodges, Jim Kaat, Roger Maris, Minnie Miñoso, Danny Murtaugh, Tony Oliva, Billy Pierce and Maury Wills are the candidates the Golden Days Era Committee will consider for Hall of Fame election for the Class of 2022. All candidates are former players except for Murtaugh, who was a manager with the Pittsburgh Pirates. Kaat, Oliva and Wills are living, while all other candidates are deceased." https://baseballhall.org/discover/golden-days-era-ballot-2022

Edgy MD Dec 03 2021 06:18 AM Re: Maybe This Time: Gil Hodges on Another HOF Ballot

Good point.

dinosaur jesus Dec 03 2021 07:46 AM Re: Maybe This Time: Gil Hodges on Another HOF Ballot

No way on Maris. Outside of his two MVP seasons, he was a good player, but never one of the best in the league. He wasn't even close to a Hall of Fame career. Billy Pierce is interesting. He was a great pitcher for about eight years, a pretty good one into his late thirties, and if he'd played for better teams he probably would have been in a long time ago. And I'd be fine with him making it. But he's kind of the definition of marginal Hall of Famer. He's more deserving than a lot of pitchers in there. And less deserving than a lot who aren't. David Cone was a better pitcher.

Marshmallowmilkshake Dec 03 2021 08:00 AM Re: Maybe This Time: Gil Hodges on Another HOF Ballot

Minnie Minoso is an interesting case as well. A trailblazer in some respects and a hero in Chicago. I was able to meet him a number of times, and he certainly embraced his ambassador role.

G-Fafif Dec 03 2021 10:12 AM Re: Maybe This Time: Gil Hodges on Another HOF Ballot

Gil's return to New York. [youtube]mwplwP2Ad5c[/youtube] Gil for all time. [youtube]jCjwO25fw8E[/youtube]

Frayed Knot Dec 03 2021 01:19 PM Re: Maybe This Time: Gil Hodges on Another HOF Ballot

I'm agnostic on the whole Gil-in-HoF question. It's become a rerun of the Rizzuto saga where each year the NY media and NY fans wonder if THIS is going to be the year he gets in. No questioning as to whether or not he deserves to is entertained because we act as if that debate was settled long ago but he is, for some unstated reason, being screwed each time and it's time to right the wrong. But while those inside the NYC area see it as settled, I doubt there's the same consensus outside and maybe the majority opinion just thinks he falls a bit short.

Edgy MD Dec 03 2021 02:52 PM Re: Maybe This Time: Gil Hodges on Another HOF Ballot

I certainly think there has been a lot of questioning about it. As noted, he's been on 35 ballots. And he's certainly received majority support on multiple occasions.

batmagadanleadoff Dec 03 2021 03:21 PM Re: Maybe This Time: Gil Hodges on Another HOF Ballot

Well, the Hall would be tremendously bigger if all a candidate needed to get in was a majority of the vote. I'm with FK on this one. Which doesn't mean that I'm against Gil's enshrinement.

Frayed Knot Dec 03 2021 05:11 PM Re: Maybe This Time: Gil Hodges on Another HOF Ballot Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Dec 04 2021 03:14 AM

Edgy MD wrote: I certainly think there has been a lot of questioning about it. As noted, he's been on 35 ballots. Sure, the voters have questioned his merits, on multiple occasions and via multiple formats. They've also rejected him each time, maybe rightly or maybe wrongly but it's at least a question so it would be nice if it were treated as such. What I'm talking about is the fan/media debate where, as it was for Rizzuto, the discussion proceeds directly to if this is the year the obvious wrong will be righted as [if] that's an already agreed upon fact allowing us to skip over the part about whether or not he actually should be inducted. I understand the fan perspective on this, at least to a degree; Phil lived a long time and spent generations as a lovable broadcaster; Gil tragically lived a short time and managed a lovable story (though he's not up for managing and probably 90% of fans alive today never saw him play a single game) so both are beneficiaries of the warm fuzzies. It's more disturbing to see the supposed tough NY media take a pass on the whole thing and instead act as cheerleaders. At least this has yet to reach the Rizzuto situation where the committee was nakedly and purposely stacked for the sole purpose of getting him elected and then pretending that the whole process wasn't tainted. Bill White (his active broadcast partner), Yogi Berra, and Pee Wee Reese (longtime friends) were off that vets committee as quickly as they appeared on it once the deed was complete. Yogi's congratulatory phone call was, "We got you in!" I didn't like the lack of public debate then and I don't like it any better now simply because it's one of "my" guys up for inclusion.

MFS62 Dec 03 2021 05:58 PM Re: Maybe This Time: Gil Hodges on Another HOF Ballot

Frayed Knot wrote: What I'm talking about is the fan/media debate where, as it was for Rizzuto, the discussion proceeds directly to if this is the year the obvious wrong will be righted as that's an already agreed upon fact allowing us to skip over the part about whether or not he actually should be inducted. Similarly, MFY fans have been equally vocal (maybe even more so) in their support for Munson's election to the hall. Ron Bloomberg has been one of the leaders of the charge on his Facebook page, has written (he says) a book "Thurman and Me", and hawks "Thurman for the Hall" t-shirts. Yech. Later

Edgy MD Dec 03 2021 08:42 PM Re: Maybe This Time: Gil Hodges on Another HOF Ballot

I'm certainly happy to debate the matter in depth. I'll take either side.

G-Fafif Dec 05 2021 12:43 PM Re: Maybe This Time: Gil Hodges on Another HOF Ballot

[tweet]https://twitter.com/nymammoths/status/1466576405311991819[/tweet] Kitty Carlisle may not know the guest's line, but recognizes an alluring voice when she hears it.

Edgy MD Dec 05 2021 01:41 PM Re: Maybe This Time: Gil Hodges on Another HOF Ballot

The winner in a long series between the Senators and the Mets would be America.

Frayed Knot Dec 05 2021 03:05 PM Re: Maybe This Time: Gil Hodges on Another HOF Ballot Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Dec 05 2021 04:21 PM

Frayed Knot wrote: What I'm talking about is the fan/media debate where, as it was for Rizzuto, the discussion proceeds directly to if this is the year the obvious wrong will be righted as that's an already agreed upon fact allowing us to skip over the part about whether or not he actually should be inducted. Similarly, MFY fans have been equally vocal (maybe even more so) in their support for Munson's election to the hall. Ron Bloomberg has been one of the leaders of the charge on his Facebook page, has written (he says) a book "Thurman and Me", and hawks "Thurman for the Hall" t-shirts. Yech. If someone wants to make a case for Munson then go ahead. I might disagree with them but they can talk him up all they want. A debate is what SHOULD be happening on this topic. My problem with the Rizzuto and now Hodges cases is with those acting as if there is no debate to be made because it's already a universally recognized fact. And those folks who relieve themselves of the burden of proof also get to sidestep the inconvenient question of how such an obviously deserving member was voted down so consistently by contemporaries who actually saw your guy play. Rizzuto not only never got 75% during his decade and a half on the ballot, in his best year he never got halfway to 75%. So while maybe all those voters for all those years were wrong, but you should at least need argue your point rather than act as if his career alone is prima facie evidence that requires no further discussion. All of this reminds me of the logic of (former?) newswoman Linda Ellerbee. In making a case (years ago) for passage of the (by then expired) Equal Rights Amendment. Her argument was; 'the fact that we don't have it is proof that we need it'. Oh, OK.

batmagadanleadoff Dec 05 2021 03:33 PM Re: Maybe This Time: Gil Hodges on Another HOF Ballot

Frayed Knot wrote: And those folks who relieve themselves of the burden of proof also get to sidestep the inconvenient question of how such an obviously deserving member was voted down so consistently by contemporaries who actually saw your guy play. This. The only thing I'm pretty confident in saying is that Gil Hodges's playing career, alone, doesn't merit enshrinement in Cooperstown. And his managerial record, alone, doesn't merit inclusion either. So is Gil's managerial record enough, when combined with his playing record, enough to get him in? I dunno. The 1969 Mets were spectacular, one of the greatest stories in baseball history, and still, one of baseball's most beloved teams ever, even though its fans are dying off. Everybody rooted for the '69 Mets. But still, Gil's managerial record is brief. HOFer's that needed their managerial record to bolster their playing stats to get in, tended to have a larger managerial record than what Hodges accomplished as a manager. It was simply too brief. Gil himself was as beloved as those '69 Mets and his case will no doubt rely on the almost universal respect he received to get in. Gil has a unique resume, for which there is virtually no comp.

Edgy MD Dec 05 2021 04:31 PM Re: Maybe This Time: Gil Hodges on Another HOF Ballot

But we're only just getting a sense of how to judge a managerial career. Historically, the measure of a manager is two championships. If your team wins two championships, you get in eventually, but that's just too crude for me. We're perfectly capable of looking at two shortstops, one of whom has been on three championship teams and the other who has been on one, comparing them with all the other information from their careers, and coming to the conclusion that the one with one championship grossly outperfomed the one with three. We need to do the same with managers.

G-Fafif Dec 05 2021 04:36 PM Re: Maybe This Time: Gil Hodges on Another HOF Ballot

Tears of joy.

Marshmallowmilkshake Dec 05 2021 04:38 PM Re: Maybe This Time: Gil Hodges on Another HOF Ballot

=G-Fafif post_id=82572 time=1638747366 user_id=55]Tears of joy.

Right there with you!



The Hall of Fame is a better place with Gil, Buck O'Neal and Minnie Minoso in it.



(Jim Kaat, Tony Oliva and Bud Fowler, too.)

stevejrogers Dec 05 2021 04:40 PM Re: Maybe This Time: Gil Hodges on Another HOF Ballot

Buck O'Neil becomes the first Hall Award Winner, the one that bears his name, to gain induction. Miñoso, Kaat and Oliva join Hodges to end a bit of a logjam in their era's ballot.

roger_that Dec 05 2021 04:47 PM Re: Maybe This Time: Gil Hodges on Another HOF Ballot

About friggen time! This is almost as good a feeling as 1986, and as astonishing as 1969. I've waited a long time for this day.

stevejrogers Dec 05 2021 04:47 PM Re: Maybe This Time: Gil Hodges on Another HOF Ballot

Frayed Knot wrote: And those folks who relieve themselves of the burden of proof also get to sidestep the inconvenient question of how such an obviously deserving member was voted down so consistently by contemporaries who actually saw your guy play. This. The only thing I'm pretty confident in saying is that Gil Hodges's playing career, alone, doesn't merit enshrinement in Cooperstown. And his managerial record, alone, doesn't merit inclusion either. So is Gil's managerial record enough, when combined with his playing record, enough to get him in? I dunno. The 1969 Mets were spectacular, one of the greatest stories in baseball history, and still, one of baseball's most beloved teams ever, even though its fans are dying off. Everybody rooted for the '69 Mets. But still, Gil's managerial record is brief. HOFer's that needed their managerial record to bolster their playing stats to get in, tended to have a larger managerial record than what Hodges accomplished as a manager. It was simply too brief. Gil himself was as beloved as those '69 Mets and his case will no doubt rely on the almost universal respect he received to get in. Gil has a unique resume, for which there is virtually no comp. I have seen “Joe Torre as player” arguments get made that his managerial days should put him over the top as an overall “performer” While he's in as a skipper, I doubt his “borderline” performance as a player was any factor when he came up as a manager. Nor did his MFY and after managing career factor into whomever was deciding his cases on ballots as a player.

batmagadanleadoff Dec 05 2021 06:06 PM Re: Maybe This Time: Gil Hodges on Another HOF Ballot

=G-Fafif post_id=82572 time=1638747366 user_id=55]Tears of joy.

I'm with you on the joy part. Very much so. Can't say I shed a tear, though.

G-Fafif Dec 05 2021 07:04 PM Re: Maybe This Time: Gil Hodges on Another HOF Ballot

=batmagadanleadoff post_id=82578 time=1638752797 user_id=68] =G-Fafif post_id=82572 time=1638747366 user_id=55]Tears of joy.

I'm with you on the joy part. Very much so. Can't say I shed a tear, though.


I did. For Buck, too.

Edgy MD Dec 05 2021 07:08 PM Re: Maybe This Time: Gil Hodges on Another HOF Ballot

Fantastique.

Willets Point Dec 05 2021 08:30 PM Re: Maybe This Time: Gil Hodges on Another HOF Ballot

Hooray!

stevejrogers Dec 05 2021 08:46 PM Re: Maybe This Time: Gil Hodges on Another HOF Ballot Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Dec 05 2021 08:47 PM

Interestingly is that O'Neil, with the award that bears his name, is the first Hall Award Winner to be in the inductee rolls, though odds are a HOFer like Dizzy Dean or Ralph Kiner might join him via the Frick award in the opposite direction at some point. Oddly enough, the O'Neil ambassador role award caused the first double dip in the Hall's history as 1991 Frick winner Joe Garagiola was named the O'Neil recipient in 2014.

stevejrogers Dec 05 2021 08:47 PM Re: Maybe This Time: Gil Hodges on Another HOF Ballot

The Mets made a HOF plaque for Gary Carter, with an NY on his cap, instead of the Expos one on his Cooperstown plaque, and hung it in Shea's Diamond Club lobby with the Met HOF busts, wall photos and other artifacts. No clue of its whereabouts today. Anyway, since I don't see why Cooperstown wouldn't put Brooklyn's B on Gil's visage (I really hope they aren't pressured into going the Yogi/Maddux/Halladay/LaRussa route with no logo) I wonder if that faux plaque will show up again, along with a version of Gil's plaque with an NY, instead of a B.

Fman99 Dec 05 2021 09:14 PM Re: Maybe This Time: Gil Hodges on Another HOF Ballot

Great news and long overdue.

batmagadanleadoff Dec 05 2021 09:37 PM Re: Maybe This Time: Gil Hodges on Another HOF Ballot

=stevejrogers post_id=82585 time=1638762443 user_id=57] The Mets made a HOF plaque for Gary Carter, with an NY on his cap, instead of the Expos one on his Cooperstown plaque, and hung it in Shea's Diamond Club lobby with the Met HOF busts, wall photos and other artifacts. No clue of its whereabouts today.

Do you have a picture of that Carter Mets plaque?

stevejrogers Dec 05 2021 10:01 PM Re: Maybe This Time: Gil Hodges on Another HOF Ballot

http://media.nj.com/times-sports/photo/10612417-large.jpg>

Bob Alpacadaca Dec 05 2021 10:19 PM Re: Maybe This Time: Gil Hodges on Another HOF Ballot

Dick Allen was one vote shy. Gil, Oliva and Kaat each got exactly 75 percent with 12 votes and Minoso got 14 votes. Thrilled to see Hodges take his rightful place in Cooperstown.

G-Fafif Dec 06 2021 05:06 AM Re: Maybe This Time: Gil Hodges on Another HOF Ballot

[tweet]https://twitter.com/backpageguynydn/status/1467694966889668613[/tweet]

nymr83 Dec 06 2021 05:13 AM Re: Maybe This Time: Gil Hodges on Another HOF Ballot

I understand taking another look at guys like O'Neill who played in the negro leagues but it is so dumb to spend 15 years on a ballot deciding that Kaat and Oliva are NOT hall of famers just so a a handful of their buddies can show them in now.

Lefty Specialist Dec 06 2021 05:21 AM Re: Maybe This Time: Gil Hodges on Another HOF Ballot

However he got in, I'm glad that Gil made it finally.

Edgy MD Dec 06 2021 06:03 AM Re: Maybe This Time: Gil Hodges on Another HOF Ballot

=nymr83 post_id=82591 time=1638792819 user_id=54] I understand taking another look at guys like O'Neill who played in the negro leagues but it is so dumb to spend 15 years on a ballot deciding that Kaat and Oliva are NOT hall of famers just so a a handful of their buddies can show them in now.

I have no problem with cases regularly reviewed into perpetuity. Beyond that, less than half (six of 16) of the Golden Days Era Committee was comprised of former players.

Edgy MD Dec 06 2021 06:11 AM Re: Maybe This Time: Gil Hodges on Another HOF Ballot

[TWEET]https://twitter.com/ArtShamsky/status/1467639400888684549[/TWEET] [TWEET]https://twitter.com/michaelgbaron/status/1467674384378875905[/TWEET] [TWEET]https://twitter.com/wcbs880/status/1467657944703643652[/TWEET]

Frayed Knot Dec 06 2021 06:17 AM Re: Maybe This Time: Gil Hodges on Another HOF Ballot

Good for Hodges's kids and family. (Is the widow still alive?) There's always the 'wish it could have happened while he was alive' saying, but in Gil's case that wasn't going to happen unless he was an overwhelming choice which he obviously wasn't. He lived only long enough to see four HoF ballots but never topped 50% in any of them. Aside from his first ballot (1969 coincidentally) when he got 24% in an era where voting 'Yes' on a first-timer was considered a capital crime by many in the BBWAA, he hovered between 40 and 60 pct over 14 ballots before topping out at 63% in his final year of eligibility. =nymr83 post_id=82591 time=1638792819 user_id=54] I understand taking another look at guys like O'Neill who played in the negro leagues but it is so dumb to spend 15 years on a ballot deciding that Kaat and Oliva are NOT hall of famers just so a a handful of their buddies can show them in now.

Part of the problem with a small committee is that one or two strong personalities can work the room enough to usher a perhaps unworthy player in or keep a deserving one out. I don't

know if any politics were played here for Gil, Kaat, or Oliva -- unlike for Rizzuto when it was clearly stacked for the sole purpose of electing him -- but even as the HoF has tweaked the

set-up of the vet's committee multiple times, they still never seem to get it right.

ashie62 Dec 06 2021 06:45 AM Re: Maybe This Time: Gil Hodges on Another HOF Ballot

Locally Gil was unduly overshadowed by Duke Snider, who was elected long ago Gil's numbers alone should have gotten him in 30 years ago. He also enjoyed 1969 Mets gravitas.

G-Fafif Dec 06 2021 06:47 AM Re: Maybe This Time: Gil Hodges on Another HOF Ballot

Bill Madden: According to sources familiar with the presentations during the Golden Era meeting Sunday, the subject of the integrity/sportsmanship clause, which has been such a raging topic in the Baseball Writers elections ever since the steroid cheats began appearing on their ballot, was widely discussed when it came to Hodges. “You could make the case—and apparently somebody did—that no one in the game epitomized that clause more than Hodges, a quiet leader, an ex-Marine World War II hero who was universally respected by teammates and foes alike,” said one source. “I think that made the difference for him, especially in this day and age.” It didn't hurt either that the venerable Hall-of-Fame Dodgers announcer Vin Scully lobbied hard behind the scenes for Hodges with a lot of the committee members. And who could say no to Vinny? https://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/ny-gil-hodges-hall-of-fame-brooklyn-dodgers-mets-20211206-wb347rrn5bchzc6satukgutrye-story.html Joan Hodges is 95 and rewarded at last for her patience.

MFS62 Dec 06 2021 06:51 AM Re: Maybe This Time: Gil Hodges on Another HOF Ballot

He was one of my favorite Brooklyn Dodgers. I'm fahklempt. Later

batmagadanleadoff Dec 06 2021 07:00 AM Re: Maybe This Time: Gil Hodges on Another HOF Ballot

=nymr83 post_id=82591 time=1638792819 user_id=54] I understand taking another look at guys like O'Neill who played in the negro leagues but it is so dumb to spend 15 years on a ballot deciding that Kaat and Oliva are NOT hall of famers just so a a handful of their buddies can show them in now.

I have no problem with these Veterans Committees. The way baseball stats were understood and analyzed back when Kaat and Oliva were on their original HOF ballots compared to today is like the difference between night and day.

batmagadanleadoff Dec 06 2021 07:05 AM Re: Maybe This Time: Gil Hodges on Another HOF Ballot

Bill Madden: According to sources familiar with the presentations during the Golden Era meeting Sunday, the subject of the integrity/sportsmanship clause, which has been such a raging topic in the Baseball Writers elections ever since the steroid cheats began appearing on their ballot, was widely discussed when it came to Hodges. “You could make the case—and apparently somebody did—that no one in the game epitomized that clause more than Hodges, a quiet leader, an ex-Marine World War II hero who was universally respected by teammates and foes alike,” said one source. “I think that made the difference for him, especially in this day and age.” It didn't hurt either that the venerable Hall-of-Fame Dodgers announcer Vin Scully lobbied hard behind the scenes for Hodges with a lot of the committee members. And who could say no to Vinny? https://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/ny-gil-hodges-hall-of-fame-brooklyn-dodgers-mets-20211206-wb347rrn5bchzc6satukgutrye-story.html Joan Hodges is 95 and rewarded at last for her patience. The way I anticipated the vote, I was certain that intangibles like character and integrity were what would finally get Hidges in, if it was gonna happen I can recall Joe Posnaski's piece on Hodges almost a year ago in his series about the best baseball players not in the HOF: the entire piece focused on Gil's character with barely any words devoted to Gil's playing or managerial record. And that now being the case, one could now easily see why it took this long for Gil to get the necessary number of votes for enshrinement.

Benjamin Grimm Dec 06 2021 07:12 AM Re: Maybe This Time: Gil Hodges on Another HOF Ballot

Gil has already been dead for longer than he was alive.

batmagadanleadoff Dec 06 2021 08:16 AM Re: Maybe This Time: Gil Hodges on Another HOF Ballot

[FIMG=444]https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51729016048_0f2ba33509_c.jpg[/FIMG]

Edgy MD Dec 06 2021 03:26 PM Re: Maybe This Time: Gil Hodges on Another HOF Ballot

Hopefully, this also leads the Dodgers to finally retire 14.

Marshmallowmilkshake Dec 06 2021 04:00 PM Re: Maybe This Time: Gil Hodges on Another HOF Ballot

https://thumbs.worthpoint.com/zoom/images1/1/0920/25/gil-hodges-dodgers-vintage-1990s_1_ad40f1c2043adbd27654c517d3bad12c.jpg> Dodger players in 1999 were able to wear a patch highlighting a hero. Here's Gil's patch. Here are the others. I'm not sure if a player wore Gil. https://live.staticflickr.com/7204/7136971743_2bca90fe9a_c.jpg>

roger_that Dec 06 2021 08:40 PM Re: Maybe This Time: Gil Hodges on Another HOF Ballot

https://thumbs.worthpoint.com/zoom/images1/1/0920/25/gil-hodges-dodgers-vintage-1990s_1_ad40f1c2043adbd27654c517d3bad12c.jpg> https://live.staticflickr.com/7204/7136971743_2bca90fe9a_c.jpg> Gil is the only repeater, which raises the question: does this mean that Scioscia's number 14 will also be retired when Gil's is? I still hold 1988 against Scioscia.

stevejrogers Dec 07 2021 06:34 AM Re: Maybe This Time: Gil Hodges on Another HOF Ballot

https://thumbs.worthpoint.com/zoom/images1/1/0920/25/gil-hodges-dodgers-vintage-1990s_1_ad40f1c2043adbd27654c517d3bad12c.jpg> https://live.staticflickr.com/7204/7136971743_2bca90fe9a_c.jpg> Gil is the only repeater, which raises the question: does this mean that Scioscia's number 14 will also be retired when Gil's is? I still hold 1988 against Scioscia. Kiki Hernandez in 2020 was the last time #14 was issued. Considering the best catcher the Dodgers ever had was employed here at the time, probably just needed an LA representative to go along with Campy. I think Valenzuela's 34 is the only unofficially mothballed number for the Dodgers as it hasn't been issued since 1990.

MFS62 Dec 07 2021 01:10 PM Re: Maybe This Time: Gil Hodges on Another HOF Ballot

And the fact that he was a mensch came as no surprise to me. https://forward.com/culture/479194/a-baseball-star-and-all-around-mensch-finally-makes-it-to-the-hall-of-fame/ Later

Marshmallowmilkshake Dec 07 2021 02:44 PM Re: Maybe This Time: Gil Hodges on Another HOF Ballot

That's a good read. Thanks for sharing that! It's interesting that this year the hall is enshrining people such as Hodges and Buck O'Neil who might have fallen short in terms of statistics, but had tremendous character. Perhaps not coincidentally, it comes when several players with tremendous statistics but who appear to be short on character are in their last year on the ballot and could finally be elected. I never had the pleasure of meeting Hodges, but I did meet Buck twice. Once was before the Ken Burns documentary and the other time it was in the Negro Leagues Museum as he was preparing for an interview the day before he was widely expected to be elected by the group looking at the careers of those players. He was every bit as engaging and warm as he appeared in the documentary. The Hall of Fame will be a more complete place with players like Clemens, Bonds, and ARod. But it's a better place with players like Gil and Buck. Oh, and the heck with Hawk Harrelson.

G-Fafif Dec 07 2021 05:41 PM Re: Maybe This Time: Gil Hodges on Another HOF Ballot

And the fact that he was a mensch came as no surprise to me. https://forward.com/culture/479194/a-baseball-star-and-all-around-mensch-finally-makes-it-to-the-hall-of-fame/ Marvelous story. Thank you for sharing.

kcmets Dec 07 2021 06:26 PM Re: Maybe This Time: Gil Hodges on Another HOF Ballot

=Marshmallowmilkshake post_id=82651 time=1638913497 user_id=119]The Hall of Fame will be a more complete place with players like Clemens, Bonds, and ARod.

If you're gonna be a thread buzzkill you forgot a few others I'm not

going to bother mentioning. They (and we) know who they are.

Marshmallowmilkshake Dec 07 2021 07:30 PM Re: Maybe This Time: Gil Hodges on Another HOF Ballot

Thread buzz kill? I was praising Gil and Buck!

G-Fafif Dec 07 2021 07:51 PM Re: Maybe This Time: Gil Hodges on Another HOF Ballot

My buzz is intact.

kcmets Dec 07 2021 07:55 PM Re: Maybe This Time: Gil Hodges on Another HOF Ballot

=Marshmallowmilkshake post_id=82661 time=1638930658 user_id=119] Thread buzz kill? I was praising Gil and Buck!

And lauding Clemens. In the Gil thread.

Edgy MD Dec 07 2021 08:22 PM Re: Maybe This Time: Gil Hodges on Another HOF Ballot

Well, I sort of read that as a backhanded laud. Perhaps more of a dual.

Marshmallowmilkshake Dec 07 2021 08:53 PM Re: Maybe This Time: Gil Hodges on Another HOF Ballot

Lauding Clemens? You read that the wrong way. My point, and perhaps I was clumsy in offering it, was that there is more to greatness than statistics. Gil and Buck transcended their statistics, and adding people like them makes the hall a better place. There are plenty of people defending Clemens and Bonds, saying the hall is incomplete without them. I'd rather have Gil and Buck. Here's a good Buck story I heard while at the museum that day. He was at the musuem often, and very much enjoyed talking to guests. One day he was parked out front, went out and discovered a charter bus was blocking his car and couldn't get out. Rather than be upset, Buck got on the bus and spoke to everyone on it, shaking hands and posing for photos until the driver came back out.

kcmets Dec 08 2021 06:45 AM Re: Maybe This Time: Gil Hodges on Another HOF Ballot

Edgy MD wrote: Well, I sort of read that as a backhanded laud. Perhaps more of a dual. Look, I'm not pussy footin' around on this and bending over backwards to guess or interpret what's not there. Nor use cute palindromes to do whatever it is that you are trying to, well, do? It's a pretty simple sentence: =Marshmallowmilkshake post_id=82651 time=1638913497 user_id=119]The Hall of Fame will be a more complete place with players like Clemens, Bonds, and ARod.

No, it will not. Not at all.

stevejrogers Dec 08 2021 02:20 PM Re: Maybe This Time: Gil Hodges on Another HOF Ballot

FWIW, the elections of Oliva, Hodges and Minoso means there are 53 honorees that have a team retired number associated with them that are not in the Baseball Hall; Diamondbacks Luis Gonzalez 20 Braves Dale Murphy 3 Red Sox Johnny Pesky 6, David Ortiz 34 White Sox Billy Pierce 19, Paul Konerko 14, Mark Buerhle 56 Reds Fred Hutchinson 1, Ted Kluszewski 18, Pete Rose 14 Indians/Guardians Mel Harder 18, Jacobs Field Sellout Streak from 1995-2001 455 Rockies Todd Helton 17 Tigers Willie Horton 23, Lou Whitaker 1 (sometime in 2022) Astros Jim Umbricht 32, Don Wilson 40, Jose Cruz 25, Mike Scott 33, Larry Dierker 49, Jimmy Wynn 24 Royals Dick Howser 10 Angels Gene Autry 26, Jimmie Reese 50, Jim Fregosi 11 Dodgers Jim Gilliam 19 Twins Kent Hrbek 14, Tom Kelly 10, Joe Mauer 7 Mets Jerry Koosman 36 MFYs Thurman Munson 15, Elston Howard 32, Roger Maris 9, Billy Martin 1, Don Mattingly 23, Ron Guidry 49, Bernie Williams 51, Jorge Posada 20, Andy Pettitte 46 Athletics Dave Stewart 34 (sometime in 2022) Phillies Dick Allen 15 Pirates Billy Meyer 1, Danny Murtaugh 40 Padres Steve Garvey 6, Randy Jones 35 Giants Barry Bonds 25, Will Clark 22 (sometime in 2022) Cardinals Ken Boyer 14, August Busch 85 Rays Don Zimmer 66 Rangers Johnny Oates 26, Adrian Beltre 29, Michael Young 10

Edgy MD Dec 08 2021 02:38 PM Re: Maybe This Time: Gil Hodges on Another HOF Ballot

And it's really jammed up Cleveland's equipment managers to keep 455 out of circulation.

Benjamin Grimm Dec 08 2021 03:09 PM Re: Maybe This Time: Gil Hodges on Another HOF Ballot

I'm looking forward (well, only sort of) to the day when we break the three-digit barrier in uniform numbers.

Willets Point Dec 08 2021 03:11 PM Re: Maybe This Time: Gil Hodges on Another HOF Ballot

I suspect they'll start using emoji in place of numbers.

MFS62 Dec 08 2021 03:17 PM Re: Maybe This Time: Gil Hodges on Another HOF Ballot

If you're wondering why #26 was retired for Gene Autry, this is from his Wiki page (yeah, I know): The number 26 was retired by the Angels in Autry's honor. The chosen number reflected that baseball's rosters (at the time) had 25 men, so Autry's unflagging support for his team made him the "26th man" Later

Edgy MD Dec 08 2021 03:34 PM Re: Maybe This Time: Gil Hodges on Another HOF Ballot

Benjamin Grimm wrote: I'm looking forward (well, only sort of) to the day when we break the three-digit barrier in uniform numbers. NPB already has triple-digit numbers, because each player in the system gets an individual number. Usually the three-digit numbers only go to "developmental players," low down in the system, and they shed them as soon as they can. Bill Lee was turned down in his request to wear #337 with the Expos, but he was able to suit up in it for the Alaska Goldpanners. http://www.panneralumni.com/wp-content/uploads/1999/02/2019_alumni-featured_wfl.jpg>

Frayed Knot Dec 08 2021 04:44 PM Re: Maybe This Time: Gil Hodges on Another HOF Ballot

I hadn't realized until just looking it up this very second (well not THIS very second but the second that was occurring just prior to me writing this) that Steve Garvey had spent as much time with the Padres as he did -- five seasons, three full ones, slightly more than 1/4 of his ML PAs (I would have guessed more like 10-15%) But that still doesn't change the fact that the Padres retiring his number but not the Dodgers is one of the more ridiculous things in uniform retirement ever and it just emphasizes SDP's role as little brother even though they probably thought that jumping on #6 before LA did put them closer to equal footing because they were able to "steal" one away from big brother. News Flash Pads ... it didn't.

stevejrogers Dec 08 2021 05:37 PM Re: Maybe This Time: Gil Hodges on Another HOF Ballot

Frayed Knot wrote: I hadn't realized until just looking it up this very second (well not THIS very second but the second that was occurring just prior to me writing this) that Steve Garvey had spent as much time with the Padres as he did -- five seasons, three full ones, slightly more than 1/4 of his ML PAs (I would have guessed more like 10-15%) But that still doesn't change the fact that the Padres retiring his number but not the Dodgers is one of the more ridiculous things in uniform retirement ever and it just emphasizes SDP's role as little brother even though they probably thought that jumping on #6 before LA did put them closer to equal footing because they were able to "steal" one away from big brother. News Flash Pads ... it didn't. Interestingly, #6, at least in terms of players, was not assigned between when Garvey left and 2003. Since ‘03 it's been issued 12 times. Including Brent Mayne, Jerry Hairston, Curtis Granderson, Kenny Lofton, and last season's Trea Turner.

Edgy MD Dec 08 2021 08:09 PM Re: Maybe This Time: Gil Hodges on Another HOF Ballot

The Dodgers appear to have a policy of not retiring the number of non-Hall of Famers. As such, Hodges' 14 has been in circulation all of these years, and if it finally gets mothballed, I imagine it will be in his honor, but not Scoscia's. It's kind of silly, I think, to farm out how you intend to honor your team's legacies to the Hall of Fame decision makers, but when it comes to retired numbers, there are as many opinions as there are people.

roger_that Dec 09 2021 02:46 AM Re: Maybe This Time: Gil Hodges on Another HOF Ballot

Edgy MD wrote: The Dodgers appear to have a policy of not retiring the number of non-Hall of Famers. Not really. They retired Jim Gilliam's 19. He never had a chance of election to the HOF.

Frayed Knot Dec 09 2021 04:14 AM Re: Maybe This Time: Gil Hodges on Another HOF Ballot

=stevejrogers post_id=82699 time=1639010231 user_id=57] Interestingly, #6, at least in terms of players, was not assigned between when Garvey left and 2003. Since ‘03 it's been issued 12 times. Including Brent Mayne, Jerry Hairston, Curtis Granderson, Kenny Lofton, and last season's Trea Turner.

So it was retired then un-retired? Is it now semi-retired? Maybe they tried retiring it but then just got tired of it being retired.

I think what they should do is place a #6 Padres shirt on a Bob's Big Boy statue and put that out in front of the stadium.

B.B.B. kind of looks like Garvey anyway so most wouldn't know the difference.

stevejrogers Dec 09 2021 05:55 AM Re: Maybe This Time: Gil Hodges on Another HOF Ballot

Edgy MD wrote: The Dodgers appear to have a policy of not retiring the number of non-Hall of Famers. Not really. They retired Jim Gilliam's 19. He never had a chance of election to the HOF. That was a memorial tribute number retirement, as the long time player/coach had passed away the year before. Very much like the Mets with Hodges, and Yankees with Munson and Elston Howard.

roger_that Dec 09 2021 11:48 AM Re: Maybe This Time: Gil Hodges on Another HOF Ballot

What's your point? Mine was that there is an exception to the Dodgers' HOF-only policy, so they could have retired Gil's if they'd wanted to. They didn't.

Edgy MD Dec 09 2021 12:27 PM Re: Maybe This Time: Gil Hodges on Another HOF Ballot

Well, Gil didn't pass within the fold, like he did with the Mets, and as Junior did with the Dodgers. But yeah, if there is such a rule, Gilliam was certainly an exception.

stevejrogers Dec 09 2021 01:33 PM Re: Maybe This Time: Gil Hodges on Another HOF Ballot

=roger_that post_id=82734 time=1639075701 user_id=128] What's your point? Mine was that there is an exception to the Dodgers' HOF-only policy, so they could have retired Gil's if they'd wanted to. They didn't.

Pointing out the reasoning for the exception. It wasn't a case of a “gold watch” following a lengthy or meritorious run with the franchise, or in the case of Koosman, letting loose of the “Baseball Hall or nothing…well really a place of honor in our own franchise's Hall” restrictions

nymr83 Dec 09 2021 07:41 PM Re: Maybe This Time: Gil Hodges on Another HOF Ballot

Edgy MD wrote: The Dodgers appear to have a policy of not retiring the number of non-Hall of Famers. As such, Hodges' 14 has been in circulation all of these years, and if it finally gets mothballed, I imagine it will be in his honor, but not Scoscia's. It's kind of silly, I think, to farm out how you intend to honor your team's legacies to the Hall of Fame decision makers, but when it comes to retired numbers, there are as many opinions as there are people. Contrast to the Yankees policy of retiring your number if you were a bat boy for AT LEAST three seasons.