Master Index of Archived Threads


A conversation regarding the merits of Kris Bryant may be warranted

Willets Point Nov 09 2021 11:17 AM

Because the Mets front office (whoever that is) are looking into talking with Scott Boras about Bryant.

smg58 Nov 09 2021 12:49 PM Re: A conversation regarding the merits of Kris Bryant may be warranted

He's viable enough in the outfield and he's a quality righthanded bat, which fits my two checkmarks. I'd probably rate him ahead of Marte because he's younger and more likely to duplicate this past season's results. I'd want to know what Byron Buxton would cost the team first.

Edgy MD Nov 09 2021 07:02 PM Re: A conversation regarding the merits of Kris Bryant may be warranted

Another guy whose value may hinge upon the ultimate DH decision.

ashie62 Nov 09 2021 07:33 PM Re: A conversation regarding the merits of Kris Bryant may be warranted

I thought Bryant was a capable defender.

Edgy MD Nov 09 2021 08:39 PM Re: A conversation regarding the merits of Kris Bryant may be warranted

He's certainly shown himself to be athletic and versatile, if not polished, and that's to be expected considering his moving around. His just doesn't strike me as having a frame that the athleticism will stick to in the second half of his career.

Centerfield Nov 10 2021 10:42 AM Re: A conversation regarding the merits of Kris Bryant may be warranted

He's a year older than Conforto. Has better numbers throughout his career, but I wonder if that holds if you factor in Wrigley vs. Citi. MLBTR projects him at 6 years, $160M.

batmagadanleadoff Nov 10 2021 11:10 AM Re: A conversation regarding the merits of Kris Bryant may be warranted

=Centerfield post_id=80899 time=1636566150 user_id=65] He's a year older than Conforto. Has better numbers throughout his career, but I wonder if that holds if you factor in Wrigley vs. Citi.

So what? If Citi Field reduces Bryant's Mets numbers, that'll be because Citi is more of a pitcher's park and a tougher scoring environment than Wrigley -- which it most definitely is. Which simply means that a run produced in Citi Field is more valuable than a run produced in Wrigley Field; that a home run hit in Citi Field is more valuable than a home run hit in Wrigley Field. So Bryant won't have to produce as many runs as a Met as he did as a Cub to maintain his efficiency. Bryant hitting less home runs as a Met than as a Cub or slugging less as a Met than as a Cub doesn't automatically mean that his offensive output has declined.



That's how you factor in Wrigley vs. Citi.



Not by simply comparing the raw counting numbers and automatically concluding that Bryant declined because his raw unadjusted Mets numbers are lower than his raw unadjusted Cubs numbers.

smg58 Nov 11 2021 08:46 AM Re: A conversation regarding the merits of Kris Bryant may be warranted

=Centerfield post_id=80899 time=1636566150 user_id=65] He's a year older than Conforto. Has better numbers throughout his career, but I wonder if that holds if you factor in Wrigley vs. Citi. MLBTR projects him at 6 years, $160M.

Bryant has a career 132 OPS+ (which does take the park into account) compared to Conforto's 124, so he's still a better hitter if not dramatically so.



I was thinking 5 and 120. He's old enough that I'd be reluctant to tack on another year, but I'd have to see how the market shapes up.

Centerfield Nov 11 2021 09:23 AM Re: A conversation regarding the merits of Kris Bryant may be warranted

=batmagadanleadoff post_id=80900 time=1636567846 user_id=68] =Centerfield post_id=80899 time=1636566150 user_id=65] He's a year older than Conforto. Has better numbers throughout his career, but I wonder if that holds if you factor in Wrigley vs. Citi.

So what? If Citi Field reduces Bryant's Mets numbers, that'll be because Citi is more of a pitcher's park and a tougher scoring environment than Wrigley -- which it most definitely is. Which simply means that a run produced in Citi Field is more valuable than a run produced in Wrigley Field; that a home run hit in Citi Field is more valuable than a home run hit in Wrigley Field. So Bryant won't have to produce as many runs as a Met as he did as a Cub to maintain his efficiency. Bryant hitting less home runs as a Met than as a Cub or slugging less as a Met than as a Cub doesn't automatically mean that his offensive output has declined.



That's how you factor in Wrigley vs. Citi.



Not by simply comparing the raw counting numbers and automatically concluding that Bryant declined because his raw unadjusted Mets numbers are lower than his raw unadjusted Cubs numbers.




I'm comparing Conforto and Bryant. Bryant has better numbers. I'm asking if that's still the case once you adjust for park. smg answered the question below. It is, but only slightly.

Johnny Lunchbucket Nov 30 2021 10:51 AM Re: A conversation regarding the merits of Kris Bryant may be warranted

Bump.

Fman99 Nov 30 2021 12:37 PM Re: A conversation regarding the merits of Kris Bryant may be warranted

Mets still need one more impact bat, either at 2B/3B or LF/RF. No denying it. Bryant fits that bill (as do a few other guys still out there to be had).

nymr83 Nov 30 2021 02:02 PM Re: A conversation regarding the merits of Kris Bryant may be warranted

The Mets dont need an outfielder right now. Unless we are talking about upgrading the 4th guy for the inevitable injury

Ceetar Nov 30 2021 02:15 PM Re: A conversation regarding the merits of Kris Bryant may be warranted

You could squeeze another OFer in there amongst Canha, Nimmo and Marte. Especially if there's a DH. Guards against injury and potentially have to hope Smith or Plummer can be productive. but on the infield you have McNeil, Davis, Cano and Escobar for two spots. Just feels a little deeper there, and I honestly don't know how you fit Bryant into that. But admittedly, I don't know that much about Bryant's OF prowess, or his desired position. They even had him playing some CF last season. It does seem like he's more of an infielder.

A Boy Named Seo Nov 30 2021 03:30 PM Re: A conversation regarding the merits of Kris Bryant may be warranted

Sure, but Cano is a gargantuan question mark. And after the great squirrel incident of 2021 coupled with his shit performance, McNeil could easily red-ass his way out of town in a trade. I like JD and I think he could get 300+ ABs moving around between third, left, DH and filling in for injuries. But if someone called asking about his availability, I'd surely take that call. TL;DR there's definitely room for Bryant on this team at third or the outfield.

Johnny Lunchbucket Nov 30 2021 03:32 PM Re: A conversation regarding the merits of Kris Bryant may be warranted

Yeah I think the leftover infielders go in trades for some relief pitching or something. McNeil winds up in San Diego and Davis in Frisco. Write it down

Ceetar Nov 30 2021 03:51 PM Re: A conversation regarding the merits of Kris Bryant may be warranted

oh, they definitely need to move some pieces (both around, and away). But that may get more complicated in 30 hours or so. Bryant does work out in that "can quickly shift to LF" way too, so that may be preferable than say Conforto back. Just as things stand now, an OFer might slot in better, and it'd be nice to have a better 4th than Plummer or Smith. Of course, you could count Bryant as that too. Bryant's more coveted though, and it may not be as easy to acquire him.

kcmets Nov 30 2021 03:56 PM Re: A conversation regarding the merits of Kris Bryant may be warranted

Isn't Cano hurt already? I thought I heard that somewhere.

batmagadanleadoff Nov 30 2021 03:59 PM Re: A conversation regarding the merits of Kris Bryant may be warranted

Johnny Lunchbucket wrote: Yeah I think the leftover infielders go in trades for some relief pitching or something. McNeil winds up in San Diego and Davis in Frisco. Write it down What do you think the deal is with McNeil that he might be expendable? Not as good as his all-star stats suggest? Redundant? A personality issue? Maybe the Mets figger he walks first chance he gets?

Ceetar Nov 30 2021 04:59 PM Re: A conversation regarding the merits of Kris Bryant may be warranted

=kcmets post_id=82193 time=1638312990 user_id=53] Isn't Cano hurt already? I thought I heard that somewhere.

something shut him down in winter league. Didn't sound like something that would persist necessarily.

Lefty Specialist Nov 30 2021 06:09 PM Re: A conversation regarding the merits of Kris Bryant may be warranted

Lindor was pissed at the way Jeff was playing second (kinda badly). Words were spoken, rats and raccoons were discussed, and bottom line.....Jeff's on borrowed time. Lindor's not going anywhere and the dynamic between the two won't get any better. There's no real space for him in the outfield, and Cano's going to play or DH unless Uncle Steve cuts bait (that's a lot of money to eat even for him). Add Bryant to this mix and you've got too many players and not enough positions. I know, injuries. But at least two of JD, Dom or Squirrel should be traded to open up this roster. I can't believe there'd be a taker for Cano even if there was a bad contract to take back in return. He's got more baggage than a Pullman car.

nymr83 Nov 30 2021 07:01 PM Re: A conversation regarding the merits of Kris Bryant may be warranted

Johnny Lunchbucket wrote: Yeah I think the leftover infielders go in trades for some relief pitching or something. McNeil winds up in San Diego and Davis in Frisco. Write it down What do you think the deal is with McNeil that he might be expendable? Not as good as his all-star stats suggest? Redundant? A personality issue? Maybe the Mets figger he walks first chance he gets? Maybe the Mets have given up on the small market mentality that everyone getting paid well needs to be starter or else "oh shit ship that salary somewhere"! McNeil as a backup if he loses the competition at 2B is ok with me! yay depth! Smith is the one I would trade as without a starting job he provides depth at less positions than McNeil.

Frayed Knot Nov 30 2021 07:39 PM Re: A conversation regarding the merits of Kris Bryant may be warranted

Johnny Lunchbucket wrote: Yeah I think the leftover infielders go in trades for some relief pitching or something. McNeil winds up in San Diego and Davis in Frisco. Write it down What do you think the deal is with McNeil that he might be expendable? Not as good as his all-star stats suggest? Redundant? A personality issue? Maybe the Mets figger he walks first chance he gets? Not exactly 'All-star stats' lately. His OBP fell from the .380's [.381, .384, .383 in 2018, '19, '20] to .319 in 2021; his BA from .319 to .251; his OPS+ from 139 to 88 Those figures don't represent a drop, they show a plummet. Maybe that's just a one-year aberration, I dunno.

Gwreck Nov 30 2021 07:40 PM Re: A conversation regarding the merits of Kris Bryant may be warranted

=Ceetar post_id=82178 time=1638306955 user_id=102]but on the infield you have McNeil, Davis, Cano and Escobar for two spots.

Bryant is a better choice than any of them.

Johnny Lunchbucket Nov 30 2021 08:13 PM Re: A conversation regarding the merits of Kris Bryant may be warranted

McNeil needs a change of scenery pretty badly. I'm sure he can still be a useful player but just not for us anymore. It happens to lots of guys

seawolf17 Dec 01 2021 05:55 AM Re: A conversation regarding the merits of Kris Bryant may be warranted

I do get Murphy/Turner vibes from McNeil. "Yeah, he's expendable, he's replaceable..." and then goes OFF somewhere else.

Fman99 Dec 01 2021 06:43 AM Re: A conversation regarding the merits of Kris Bryant may be warranted

SNY's web site, in recapping the Marte and Baez signing/non-signing, basically portrays the Mets as being done with adding position player help, and content (barring a trade) to start 2022 with McNeil at 2B.

DocTee Dec 01 2021 06:48 AM Re: A conversation regarding the merits of Kris Bryant may be warranted

IMHO, McNeil is the best second baseman they have right now, so if the season opened today, he'd be starting there. I definitely agree with Wolf that if he left, he'd be a perennial batting champion. I could see him raking in Colorado for a few years. I think 2/3 of Dom, JD, and McNeil go before Spring training, and I'm not sure how I feel about.

Centerfield Dec 01 2021 07:16 AM Re: A conversation regarding the merits of Kris Bryant may be warranted

I think trading JD just when the NL adopts the DH would be a mistake. He still hit well last year, even with a torn ligament. He isn't expensive and adds value. Trading McNeil and Smith at the lowest of their trade value seems unwise as well. And trading either for a middle reliever seems positively Wilponian. Maybe even Phillipsian. Both, especially McNeil, seem like a good candidate to bounce back. I wouldn't want anyone thinking that either needs to be unloaded. I mean, if we get value for them, sure. But that seems unlikely given their off years.

seawolf17 Dec 01 2021 07:23 AM Re: A conversation regarding the merits of Kris Bryant may be warranted

=Centerfield post_id=82247 time=1638368186 user_id=65] I think trading JD just when the NL adopts the DH would be a mistake. He still hit well last year, even with a torn ligament. He isn't expensive and adds value. Trading McNeil and Smith at the lowest of their trade value seems unwise as well. And trading either for a middle reliever seems positively Wilponian. Maybe even Phillipsian. Both, especially McNeil, seem like a good candidate to bounce back. I wouldn't want anyone thinking that either needs to be unloaded. I mean, if we get value for them, sure. But that seems unlikely given their off years.

Every bit of this.

Ceetar Dec 01 2021 07:30 AM Re: A conversation regarding the merits of Kris Bryant may be warranted

There's really no such thing as a "middle" reliever anymore. You need 3-4 good guys (which was probably always true to some extent) in the bullpen and the strong bullpens seem to be the teams that really succeed, so if you could get someone to bite on a real reliever for Smith? Do it. It's extremely unlikely he's suddenly going to be an All-Star or something, and (unless you're going to make Alonso the DH?) he's blocked at first and is negative in the outfield. McNeil has a longer track record, but that might mean you're more apt to get someone to bite in trade too. I dunno, some of this at least depends on the coaching staff. I really like Davis, they should keep Davis, but it really feels like the Mets don't feel the same. But since 2019, only Nimmo and Alonso (min 200PA) have a higher wRC+ than Davis. Only Alonso has a higher Hard% (via Fangraphs) than Davis. The Mets NEED that power.