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2022 HOF Ballot

Gwreck Nov 22 2021 11:38 AM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Nov 22 2021 11:49 AM

New Names: Carl Crawford Prince Fielder Ryan Howard Tim Lincecum Justin Morneau Joe Nathan David Ortiz Jonathan Papelbon Jake Peavy AJ Pierzynski Alex Rodriguez Jimmy Rollins Mark Teixeira Final Year on Ballot: Barry Bonds Roger Clemens Curt Schilling Sammy Sosa Other Holdovers: Bobby Abreu Mark Buehrle Todd Helton Tim Hudson Torii Hunter Andruw Jones Jeff Kent Andy Pettitte Manny Ramirez Scott Rolen Billy Wagner Gary Sheffield Omar Vizquel

Gwreck Nov 22 2021 11:40 AM Re: 2022 HOF Ballot Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Nov 22 2021 11:49 AM

Gwreck Ballot: Bonds Clemens Helton Ortiz Rodriguez Rolen Schilling Sheffield Sosa Wagner

Ceetar Nov 22 2021 11:42 AM Re: 2022 HOF Ballot

My ballot. Just Prince Fielder.

Benjamin Grimm Nov 22 2021 11:45 AM Re: 2022 HOF Ballot

Most of these guys played after I stopped paying close attention, so I can't really say for sure. I might just go with Ortiz. I'm definitely opposed to Bonds, Clemens, and Sosa.

seawolf17 Nov 22 2021 11:47 AM Re: 2022 HOF Ballot Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Nov 22 2021 06:26 PM

You left ARod off your list, but here's my vote. Joe Nathan David Ortiz Barry Bonds Todd Helton Manny Ramirez Alex Rodriguez Billy Wagner (edit: left off Wags)

Gwreck Nov 22 2021 11:49 AM Re: 2022 HOF Ballot

Weird, didn't mean to leave him off. Thanks; fixed.

MFS62 Nov 22 2021 11:57 AM Re: 2022 HOF Ballot

Benjamin Grimm wrote: Most of these guys played after I stopped paying close attention, so I can't really say for sure. I might just go with Ortiz. I'm definitely opposed to Bonds, Clemens, and Sosa. They're on my no-vote list. And there's one more. Even Carrie Underwood knew about A-Rod and that He Cheats. enjoy ______________________________________________________________________________ Right now he's probably romancing some baseball Annie And she's probably getting frisky Right now, he's probably wishing That he didn't have those shots 'Cause his lovin' has been risky Right now, he's probably up behind her With a fungo Cause his own “bat” don't work Why? Now he knows He stuck that needle into his side For his down-the-stretch Hall of Fame drive Thought each homer would be a record feat He swung a Louisville slugger both day and night While he called the finger pointers liars But maybe next time he'll think before he cheats Right now, he still thinks its okey dokey While all his suppliers are serving time in the pokey Right now, he's probably thinking, "I'm a hunk" And he's a thinking that he's gonna get away with that junk Right now, he's probably dabbing on 20 dollars Worth of that new cologne from Derek Oh and he don't know He stuck that needle into his side For his down-the-stretch Hall of Fame drive Thought each homer would be a record feat He swung a Louisville slugger both day and night While he called the finger pointers liars But maybe next time he'll think before he cheats Oh, maybe next time he'll think before he cheats Oh, before he cheats Oh __________________________________________________________________ Later

Edgy MD Nov 22 2021 11:59 AM Re: 2022 HOF Ballot

Mets Representing on the Ballot: Bobby Abreu Jeff Kent Billy Wagner Gary Sheffield Mets Who Might Have Appeared on the Ballot, but Didn't: Marlon Byrd Chris Capuano Dana Eveland Jeff Franceour Kelly Johnson James Loney Juan Uribe Non-Mets Who Arguably Should Have Been on the Ballot Despite Only Playing Four Years: José Fernandez

seawolf17 Nov 22 2021 12:18 PM Re: 2022 HOF Ballot

No, there's no compelling argument for Jose Fernandez to have waived the ten-year requirement. Lightning in a bottle, yes, but four years isn't enough.

Edgy MD Nov 22 2021 12:50 PM Re: 2022 HOF Ballot

Oh, but you're cool about Dana Eveland. Noted!

Willets Point Nov 22 2021 01:15 PM Re: 2022 HOF Ballot

There are a lot of Hall of Really Good players among the newcomers. David Ortiz is the only one I consider a shoe-in. My ballot: David Ortiz Jimmy Rollins Alex Rodriguez Barry Bonds Roger Clemens Sammy Sosa Todd Helton Manny Ramirez Omar Vizquel Joe Nathan

MFS62 Nov 22 2021 02:32 PM Re: 2022 HOF Ballot

My votes go to: Ortiz - Fame is more than just numbers Helton - numbers, in case you don't have fame Manny (my homie from the Heights) Kent - Superior (.290-377-1522) to Joe Morgan (.271-268-1133) and it would piss off Barry Bonds Vizquel - if Mazeroski is in because of his great glove, then Omar deserves to be in, too. Wagner - very effective throughout his entire long career. Later

Marshmallowmilkshake Nov 22 2021 02:48 PM Re: 2022 HOF Ballot

David Ortiz Jimmy Rollins Curt Schilling Todd Helton Andruw Jones Scott Rolen Billy Wagner Omar Vizquel

Johnny Lunchbucket Nov 22 2021 02:48 PM Re: 2022 HOF Ballot

10: David Ortiz Alex Rodriguez Barry Bonds Bobby Abreu Todd Helton Andruw Jones Jeff Kent Manny Ramirez Billy Wagner Gary Sheffield -- Abreu and Jones are "gut feeling" guys who might not stand up to heavy scrutiny and I could be talked out of. I left off Clemens and Schilling despite their deserving in. First time on my ballot for Arod who I have to say is improving his chances on a baseball-positive post-career. Also Wagner whom I didn't like much as a Met but got the job done as well as anyone, mostly

batmagadanleadoff Nov 22 2021 03:23 PM Re: 2022 HOF Ballot

=MFS62 post_id=81572 time=1637616722 user_id=60] My votes go to: ... Kent - Superior (.290-377-1522) to Joe Morgan (.271-268-1133) and it would piss off Barry Bonds

Superior?



Morgan, lifetime WAR: 100.4

Kent, lifetime WAR: 55.5



Morgan had 4 seasons of 9.0 WAR or higher, Kent had none.

Morgan was also a multiple Gold Glove award winner. Kent never won the award.

Morgan was a base on balls machine who routinely drew more than 100 walks per season. Not Kent.

Morgan, in addition to deservedly winning consecutive NL MVP awards in 1975 and '76, was robbed of the award in 1974, losing out to someone who probably wasn't even the 4th best player on his own team that season, but played in an era when statistical analysis was relatively primitive and the voters thought, more often than not, that the MVP award should go to the RBI leader from a first place team.



Joe Morgan was almost certainly the best second baseman to play baseball in your lifetime.

batmagadanleadoff Nov 22 2021 03:28 PM Re: 2022 HOF Ballot

=batmagadanleadoff post_id=81576 time=1637619795 user_id=68] =MFS62 post_id=81572 time=1637616722 user_id=60] My votes go to: ... Kent - Superior (.290-377-1522) to Joe Morgan (.271-268-1133) and it would piss off Barry Bonds

Joe Morgan was almost certainly the best second baseman to play baseball in your lifetime.




Maybe I should pull back on that last line a bit.



Joe Morgan was almost certainly the best second baseman to play baseball in my lifetime.

MFS62 Nov 22 2021 03:44 PM Re: 2022 HOF Ballot

Since Morgan has said he doesn't believe in Analytics, I used old fashioned "counting stats" Morgan would understand to support my vote. I hoisted him by his own petard. And, the second part of my reason is equally important to me - it would really piss off Barry Bonds if Kent got in and he didn't. https://www.nbcsports.com/bayarea/giants/kents-relationship-bonds-we-werent-friends Later

batmagadanleadoff Nov 22 2021 04:42 PM Re: 2022 HOF Ballot

Since Morgan has said he doesn't believe in Analytics, I used old fashioned "counting stats" Morgan would understand to support my vote. I hoisted him by his own petard. And, the second part of my reason is equally important to me - it would really piss off Barry Bonds if Kent got in and he didn't. https://www.nbcsports.com/bayarea/giants/kents-relationship-bonds-we-werent-friends Later I wasn't addressing whether or not Kent deserves to be enshrined. I was only responding to your "superior" line. Still, voting for Kent based on old-fashioned pre-SABR stats just because Morgan was SABR illiterate makes zero sense.

MFS62 Nov 22 2021 04:57 PM Re: 2022 HOF Ballot

Depends on how you measure. And I explained my criteria. Jeff Kent: .290-377-1522 Joe Morgan .271-268-1133 Looking at the all around game, of course Morgan was better. But when you limit the criteria, comparisons can be made. And if the vote had been taken , say, 20 years ago(before analytics) many voters might have put Kent before Morgan. Later

Edgy MD Nov 22 2021 05:05 PM Re: 2022 HOF Ballot

Yeah, but I think it should go without saying that we should vote for the criteria we believe in, rather than the criteria we think Joe Morgan believed in. Or to use criteria that would piss Barry Bonds off.

batmagadanleadoff Nov 22 2021 05:11 PM Re: 2022 HOF Ballot

=MFS62 post_id=81588 time=1637625445 user_id=60] Depends on how you measure. And I explained my criteria. Jeff Kent: .290-377-1522 Joe Morgan .271-268-1133 Looking at the all around game, of course Morgan was better. But when you limit the criteria, comparisons can be made. And if the vote had been taken , say, 20 years ago(before analytics) many voters might have put Kent before Morgan. Later

Great. So let's limit the criteria. Pete Falcone was a better baseball player than Hank Aaron was because Falcone pitched more complete game shutouts than Aaron did.

MFS62 Nov 22 2021 05:14 PM Re: 2022 HOF Ballot Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Nov 22 2021 05:17 PM

Edgy MD wrote: Yeah, but I think it should go without saying that we should vote for the criteria we believe in, rather than the criteria we think Joe Morgan believed in. Or to use criteria that would piss Barry Bonds off. Throughout the history of hall of fame voting, voters have voted based on their own criteria. For example - What about all the players who didn't receive a vote because some voters felt a player shouldn't make it on their first year of eligibility? Since this is a fun place and a totally hypothetical thread (none of have a vote, do they?) I decided to have fun with it. I also said Ramirez gets my vote because he's my Homie. When you said "I think it should go without saying" in your post, you were using personalized criteria, weren't you? Allow us to do that , too. And batmag's response to mine is just too plain stupid for an intelligent response. Later

batmagadanleadoff Nov 22 2021 05:16 PM Re: 2022 HOF Ballot

Edgy MD wrote: Yeah, but I think it should go without saying that we should vote for the criteria we believe in, rather than the criteria we think Joe Morgan believed in. Or to use criteria that would piss Barry Bonds off. Throughout the history of hall of fame voting, voters have voted based on their own criteria. For example - What about all the players who didn't receive a vote because some voters felt a player shouldn't make it on their first year of eligibility? Since this is a fun place and a totally hypothetical thread (none of have a vote, do they?) I decided to have fun with it. When you said "I think it should go without saying" in your post, you were using personalized criteria, weren't you? Allow us to do that , too. Now I know you are going to parse this for one of your classic picayune retorts. And I don't give a fuck. And batmag's response to mine is just too plain stupid for an intelligent response. Later Really? I thought I was responding to a stupid post. And then another even stupider post.

MFS62 Nov 22 2021 05:19 PM Re: 2022 HOF Ballot

You were wrong. R.I.F. Later

batmagadanleadoff Nov 22 2021 05:21 PM Re: 2022 HOF Ballot

Oh. Maybe you need something more analogous, closer to home, your speed. So let's limit the criteria once again. Dave Kingman was a better baseball player than Jeff Kent was because Kingman hit more HR's than Kent did.

MFS62 Nov 22 2021 05:39 PM Re: 2022 HOF Ballot

=batmagadanleadoff post_id=81595 time=1637626885 user_id=68] Oh. Maybe you need something more analogous, closer to home, your speed. So let's limit the criteria once again. Dave Kingman was a better baseball player than Jeff Kent was because Kingman hit more HR's than Kent did.

You are taking a post I meant to be funny way too seriously.

I refuse to engage in a battle of wits with someone who is half prepared.

Later

Edgy MD Nov 22 2021 05:45 PM Re: 2022 HOF Ballot

Throughout the history of hall of fame voting, voters have voted based on their own criteria. For example - What about all the players who didn't receive a vote because some voters felt a player shouldn't make it on their first year of eligibility? Since this is a fun place and a totally hypothetical thread (none of have a vote, do they?) I decided to have fun with it. I also said Ramirez gets my vote because he's my Homie. When you said "]I refuse to engage in a battle of wits with someone who is half prepared. I implore you to reconsider this tack of engagement.

MFS62 Nov 22 2021 06:11 PM Re: 2022 HOF Ballot

Edgy MD wrote: I refuse to engage in a battle of wits with someone who is half prepared. I implore you to reconsider this tack of engagement. You're right. He lowered the bar when he said "your speed" and I responded. I shouldn't have done that. Later

batmagadanleadoff Nov 22 2021 10:06 PM Re: 2022 HOF Ballot

Edgy MD wrote: I refuse to engage in a battle of wits with someone who is half prepared. I implore you to reconsider this tack of engagement. You're right. He lowered the bar when he said "your speed" and I responded. I shouldn't have done that. Later You can't even get the chronology right.

batmagadanleadoff Nov 24 2021 11:28 AM Re: 2022 HOF Ballot

Morgan also ranks 11th on the all-time stolen bases list. He was the second best base stealer of his generation, something very often overlooked or forgotten because Morgan's career almost perfectly coincided with that of Lou Brock's. Morgan's career success rate stealing bases was 80%, so he was rarely thrown out trying to steal a base. This is not to rub it in, but just to point out how flawless Morgan's game was. He did it all and we was great at it.

nymr83 Nov 24 2021 07:02 PM Re: 2022 HOF Ballot

David Ortiz Alex Rodriguez Barry Bonds Roger Clemens Curt Schilling Sammy Sosa Todd Helton Jeff Kent Manny Ramirez Scott Rolen Omar Vizquel

duan Dec 15 2021 11:35 AM Re: 2022 HOF Ballot

This is very very good ... [TWEET]https://twitter.com/bradfo/status/1470851144247386112[/TWEET]

Edgy MD Dec 15 2021 01:25 PM Re: 2022 HOF Ballot

Bradford's is a very roidy ballot. Also, I think the first seven of his 10 spent key parts of their careers in that Yankee/Red Sox rivalry. I think Gar's favorite players to do are David Ortíz and Pete Rose.

bmfc1 Dec 16 2021 08:28 PM Re: 2022 HOF Ballot

If I was a voter, I would never vote for someone who said that I should be killed, but that's just me.

Marshmallowmilkshake Jan 08 2022 07:32 AM Re: 2022 HOF Ballot

[url]https://www.nydailynews.com/opinion/ny-oped-bonds-hall-of-fame-20220106-vsqy6jwkgvht7ipnht4qakfi2i-story.html This column by Steve Salerno in the Daily News seems to imply it's OK Barry Bonds allegedly used steroids because pitchers have Tommy John surgery. I can't tell if he's serious of if this is satire. Meanwhile Buster Olney is opining that the Ballot Tracker site is bad because it forecasts how the votes are going and he'd rather be surprised at the announcement. And then there is this from Nick Canepa at the San Diego Union Tribune, defending his blank ballot: Because, just as my 2020 Hall ballot for modern players went back empty, 2021's had no names checked, either. It may seem strange, given the way elections are viewed in this country, but I don't vote for any person/player I don't believe deserves it. I consider Cooperstown's Hall an incredibly tough make. It should be easier to get into the Vatican Archives. Vested baseball writers are allowed to vote for 10 players retired for five years (some are added and some run out of eligibility every year). I've never voted for 10. And, in that I don't select many, if I don't go for someone the first time he appears on the ballot, he's never getting my vote. What has he done to change my mind?Anyway, no one added to this modern ballot excited me. And, in that I don't vote for druggies or designated hitters (I prefer real baseball players), the residue is 30 unchecked boxes. If we get dominating players, there will be better luck next time. Designated hitters are not real baseball players? And, the writer from the Toronto Sun is voting only for Andruw Jones, Curt Schilling, and Gary Sheffield. The odd thing is he says he never supported players from the steroid era, but is either unaware or or ignoring Sheffield's alleged use. My baseball Hall of Fame ballot is due at the end of this month. I have never been so conflicted about how to vote this year and who to vote for. Historically, since being granted a vote, I've never supported those of the steroid era. And now, with Alex Rodriguez and David Ortiz joining Barry Bonds, Roger Clemens, Sammy Sosa and Manny Ramirez on the ballot, the list of those tainted by performance-enhancing drugs growing larger. Were I of a different mind, those might be six easy votes, certainly five. You're allowed to vote for as many 10 players. I vote for Curt Schilling most years in spite of who he is and have voted for Andruw Jones every year he's been eligible, and usually Gary Sheffield. I strongly considered Jeff Kent, Scott Rolen, Billy Wagner and Todd Helton — all of them upper-echelon players. To me, the Hall of Fame is for the greatest of the greats. That's where those men lose out for me. So it feels very odd to leave all-time steroid greats off the ballot and wind up voting for Schilling, Jones, and Sheffield. As I wrote the other day, this ballot seems to me to be more about who I choose not to vote for rather than who I do support This blogger calls out Newsday's Steve Marcus:https://www.crossingbroad.com/2021/11/for-second-year-in-a-row-baseball-writer-submits-hall-of-fame-ballot-with-zero-selections.html I just submitted my 2022 Hall of Fame ballot with no selections. I omitted the new and usual PED suspects and, at his own request, Curt Schilling. Strongly considered Scott Rolen, but determined Rolen does not compare with the elite third basemen already in Cooperstown. #HOF — Steve Marcus (@newsdayalum) November 29, 2021 We can argue the steroid thing for days, but even then, there are guys on this ballot who are HOF-worthy non-cheaters. And for what it's worth, Steve Marcus isn't even in the full-time writing business anymore. He used to work for Newsday and in 2020 submitted a ballot with Derek Jeter as the only selection. So you ask yourself why these guys have votes if they're not going to use them. There are so many qualified and hungry baseball media members who take the responsibility seriously and don't use the platform for contrarian attention seeking. The problem is the old-school baseball vanguard, which reeks of self-importance, with elder scribes bloviating about the integrity of the game and hallowed status of the BBWAA and all of that nonsense. It's so goofy. These guys write about baseball, but if you ask them, their work is right up there with finding the cure for cancer.

Edgy MD Jan 08 2022 09:11 AM Re: 2022 HOF Ballot

Nick Canepa belongs in the first-person pronoun Hall of Fame. His use of "I, me, my, and mine" per sentence is nothing short of prodigious. I'm not sure I get the "Vatican archives" analogy. When he speaks of getting "into" the Vatican archives, is he speaking of writers and artisans whose original or reproduced works are stored there or is he speaking of researchers permitted to visit the archives? Or his he just a Dan Brown fan and wanted to work that in there somehow?

Fman99 Jan 09 2022 04:11 PM Re: 2022 HOF Ballot

No (likely) cheaty Peteys on my list. If you're jabbing someone in the ass with something you best be doing so on an adult content web site. Prince Fielder David Ortiz Todd Helton Andruw Jones Jeff Kent Scott Rolen Omar Vizquel

stevejrogers Jan 09 2022 04:34 PM Re: 2022 HOF Ballot

=Fman99 post_id=84282 time=1641769910 user_id=86] No (likely) cheaty Peteys on my list. If you're jabbing someone in the ass with something you best be doing so on an adult content web site. Prince Fielder David Ortiz Todd Helton Andruw Jones Jeff Kent Scott Rolen Omar Vizquel

😳

Marshmallowmilkshake Jan 12 2022 07:38 PM Re: 2022 HOF Ballot

Dan Shaughnessy of the Boston Globe turned in a ballot with exactly one name: Jeff Kent. [url]https://apps.bostonglobe.com/sports/graphics/2022/01/baseball-hall-of-fame-voting-2022/

Willets Point Jan 12 2022 07:41 PM Re: 2022 HOF Ballot

Shank has such a punchable face.

Marshmallowmilkshake Jan 18 2022 03:57 PM Re: 2022 HOF Ballot

Mark Purdy, retired sports columnist for the Mercury News/Bay Area News Group, casts his ballot checking the box for just one player: Billy Wagner. Paul Sullivan of the Chicago Tribune votes for just three: Mark Buehrle (?), Todd Helton and David Ortiz. Juan Vene of JuanVene.com also picks three: His column referenced the ballot only with: I voted for the 2022 Hall of Fame, for Scott Rolen, Andy Pettitte and Billy Wagner... I'll leave it there! I'm starting to think maybe the Veterans Committee isn't so bad after all.

Edgy MD Jan 18 2022 04:04 PM Re: 2022 HOF Ballot

The current version of the Veteran's Committee is more like ad hoc committees tasked with reviewing certain cases in narrow categories. And they have been better — more consistent at least and generally picking either nobody or the the guys with the best case on their lists. The upside of the BBWAA ballot is that the electorate is so vast that those weird ballots carry only so much weight. On one of the ad hoc committees, with an electorate of (usually) 12, a single weirdo can (and often does) swing the result.

Edgy MD Jan 18 2022 04:07 PM Re: 2022 HOF Ballot

And hey, Mark Buehrle isn't the worst choice. I don't see opening the door for him before Schilling, but, well, Schilling is Schilling, and maybe the voter has more on Schilling than is generally known.

86dreamer Jan 19 2022 06:38 AM Re: 2022 HOF Ballot

I am a big hall guy, and unable to distinguish who did from who didn't, so I just go with who I think are the best in comparison to others that have played their same position historically: Arod Bonds Clemens Schilling Jones Rolen Sheffield Kent Helton Wagner I'll vote for Papi next time, nothing personal. Further down the best all time 1B list than any of these are at their respective position.

metsmarathon Jan 19 2022 09:43 AM Re: 2022 HOF Ballot

=86dreamer post_id=84814 time=1642599527 user_id=97] I am a big hall guy, and unable to distinguish who did from who didn't, so I just go with who I think are the best in comparison to others that have played their same position historically: Arod Bonds Clemens Schilling Jones Rolen Sheffield Kent Helton Wagner I'll vote for Papi next time, nothing personal. Further down the best all time 1B list than any of these are at their respective position.

my ballot probably would look the same, as i have the same thought process. it's not the hall of do i like them. it's the hall of fame.

kcmets Jan 19 2022 09:52 AM Re: 2022 HOF Ballot

Writing in Jethro Tull next time I get a say so. Put all the cheaters in and let's be done with it. Pete Rose's speech and a few of the others will be be priceless humor-wise.

stevejrogers Jan 19 2022 11:01 AM Re: 2022 HOF Ballot

=kcmets post_id=84826 time=1642611129 user_id=53] Writing in Jethro Tull next time I get a say so. Put all the cheaters in and let's be done with it. Pete Rose's speech and a few of the others will be be priceless humor-wise.

I'm finally in the Hall of Fame! How ‘bout it!*



*Pete Rose, WrestleMania XIV, in Boston 1998. Great troll job promo, punctuates every jab with “HOW ‘BOUT IT?!”

Edgy MD Jan 25 2022 02:47 PM Re: 2022 HOF Ballot

Brace for impact.

Willets Point Jan 25 2022 03:12 PM Re: 2022 HOF Ballot

What time is the announcement?

Edgy MD Jan 25 2022 03:15 PM Re: 2022 HOF Ballot

Six o'clock this evening, just as you should be in the middle of a dream.

Willets Point Jan 25 2022 03:23 PM Re: 2022 HOF Ballot

I'm always in the middle of a dream.

Edgy MD Jan 25 2022 03:57 PM Re: 2022 HOF Ballot

Rob Parker went for Bonds, Clemens, Sheffield, and Sosa, but felt too sketchy about Ortíz? All expectations seem to be for one or zero candidates to cross the line.

Frayed Knot Jan 25 2022 04:16 PM Re: 2022 HOF Ballot

One electee only and it's... Papi!!!

Edgy MD Jan 25 2022 04:17 PM Re: 2022 HOF Ballot

Welcome to the Hall of Fame, David Ortíz, and only David Ortíz. A worthy companion for Gil Hodges.

bmfc1 Jan 25 2022 04:18 PM Re: 2022 HOF Ballot

Suck it, Bonds, Clemens, and Schilling.

Frayed Knot Jan 25 2022 04:20 PM Re: 2022 HOF Ballot

Edgy MD wrote: Rob Parker went for Bonds, Clemens, Sheffield, and Sosa, but felt too sketchy about Ortíz? I don't like to name call based solely on a HoF ballot, so I won't ... but Parker's a dope for oh so many reasons.

Edgy MD Jan 25 2022 04:21 PM Re: 2022 HOF Ballot

I wonder who was the last Hall of Famer to survive a shooting.

Frayed Knot Jan 25 2022 04:21 PM Re: 2022 HOF Ballot

77.9% -- so a very close call.

Edgy MD Jan 25 2022 04:29 PM Re: 2022 HOF Ballot

Curt Schilling: "I'm requesting to be removed from the ballot." BBWAA Voters: "Happy to oblige."

kcmets Jan 25 2022 04:31 PM Re: 2022 HOF Ballot

No Pettitte? I demand a recount! Congrats to Big Papi.

MFS62 Jan 25 2022 04:35 PM Re: 2022 HOF Ballot

=bmfc1 post_id=85101 time=1643152717 user_id=73] Suck it, Bonds, Clemens, and Schilling.

This.

And congrats to Big Papi.

Not all nice guys finish last, andt it was good to know that arseholes don't finish first, either.

Later

Willets Point Jan 25 2022 04:58 PM Re: 2022 HOF Ballot

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FJ_HKAkXEAIVbbz?format=jpg> Former Met Pedro Martinez standing by when Papi got the call.

Willets Point Jan 25 2022 05:06 PM Re: 2022 HOF Ballot

I only just now learned that the time on the ballot has been reduced from 15 to 10 years and that Bonds and Clemens reached their limit. I kind of expected that they would get in eventually on 15-year balloting process. I guess they'll have to wait for the PED Era Committee to vote.

Frayed Knot Jan 25 2022 05:09 PM Re: 2022 HOF Ballot

I thought Verducci put it well [paraphrasing] Bonds, Clemens, et al will still have their records, they'll still have their awards, they'll still have their money, they'll still have their recognition. But the HoF is an honor and it's one that [he feels] they didn't earn. Of course 2/3 of the voters disagree with Verducci's stance but Cooperstown's standard has always been high (3/4) and those guys didn't clear it.

Gwreck Jan 25 2022 06:17 PM Re: 2022 HOF Ballot

The voters are dumb. There's no principled basis to omit Bonds while voting for Ortiz.

Marshmallowmilkshake Jan 25 2022 07:11 PM Re: 2022 HOF Ballot

Enjoying the irony that some writers two years ago said Jeter deserved to the elected alone because he was so special. Jeter denied that honor, but a Red Sox player with possible taint gets it instead. Seems like the writers punted here, leaving the committees to make the ultimate decision.

Johnny Lunchbucket Jan 25 2022 07:32 PM Re: 2022 HOF Ballot

Yeah, there are easily 10 worthy candidates here, and more next

Lefty Specialist Jan 26 2022 06:06 AM Re: 2022 HOF Ballot

Papi should go into the HOF based on that shirt alone. Good for him, and good it was ONLY him. Bonds and Clemens will get in later when it's not the writers doing the voting. It should be as painful as possible for those two assholes.

Edgy MD Jan 26 2022 07:56 AM Re: 2022 HOF Ballot

Lefty Specialist wrote: Papi should go into the HOF based on that shirt alone. It's too bad the rest of the A-Team couldn't be there to celebrate with him.

seawolf17 Jan 26 2022 08:58 AM Re: 2022 HOF Ballot

Who's the guy sitting with him in that shot? I feel like I should recognize him too.

seawolf17 Jan 26 2022 09:03 AM Re: 2022 HOF Ballot

Also, I'm really crossing my fingers for a Kenan Thompson Big Papi appearance on SNL this weekend, because I think that character is hilarious. [YOUTUBE]luWBghJpx9I[/YOUTUBE]

Edgy MD Jan 26 2022 09:28 AM Re: 2022 HOF Ballot

It's hard to imagine a year later, but had Curt Schilling just been gracious last year, let a publicist write his response for him, and enjoyed the last-year-on-the-ballot-bump, there's a real good chance that he'd've been up all last night celebrating and he'd be fielding congratulatory calls from all over over the country. Instead, by spitting in the direction of even the writers who supported him, he made himself toxic. The only guy crashing harder than him was Omar Vizquel, who is being investigated for sexually harassing a child. Also worth looking at who is trending forward — Scott Rolen, Billy Wagner, Andruw Jones, Todd Helton. Keeping it classy has its benefits. A lot of their votes probably came from the same voters who dropped Vizquel and Schilling. Check out Prince Fielder and Justin Morneau. One year and onto the heap. [th]Player[/th] [th]2021 Votes[/th] [th]2021 Pct.[/th] [th]2022 Votes[/th] [th]2022 Pct.[/th] [th]Vote Dif.[/th] [th]Pct. Dif.[/th] IN David Ortiz 307 77.9% NOT IN Barry Bonds 248 61.8% 260 66.0% +12 +4.2% Roger Clemens (final year on ballot) 247 61.6% 257 65.2% +10 +3.6% Scott Rolen 212 52.9% 249 63.2% +37 +10.3% Curt Schilling (final year on ballot) 285 71.1% 231 58.6% =#BF0000]-54 =#BF0000]-12.5% Todd Helton 180 44.9% 205 52.0% +25 +7.1% Billy Wagner 186 46.4% 201 51.0% +15 +4.6% Andruw Jones 136 33.9% 163 41.1% +27 +7.2% Gary Sheffield 163 40.6% 160 40.6% =#BF0000]-3 0.0% Alex Rodriguez 135 34.3% Jeff Kent 130 32.4% 129 32.7% =#BF0000]-1 +0.3% Manny Ramirez 113 28.2% 114 28.9% +1 +0.7% Omar Vizquel 197 49.1% 94 23.9% =#BF0000]-103 =#BF0000]-25.2% Sammy Sosa (final year on ballot) 68 17.0% 73 18.5% +5 +1.5% Andy Pettitte 55 13.7% 42 10.7% =#BF0000]-13 =#BF0000]-3.0% Jimmy Rollins 37 9.4% Bobby Abreu 35 8.7% 34 8.6% =#BF0000]-1 =#BF0000]-0.1% Mark Buehrle 44 11.0% 23 5.8% =#BF0000]-21 =#BF0000]-5.2% Torii Hunter 38 9.5% 21 5.3% =#BF0000]-17 =#BF0000]-4.2% <5%, FALLING OFF BALLOT Joe Nathan 17 4.3% Tim Hudson 21 5.2% 12 3.0% =#BF0000]-9 =#BF0000]-2.2% Tim Lincecum 9 2.3% Ryan Howard 8 2.0% Mark Teixeira 6 1.5% Jonathan Papelbon 5 1.3% Justin Morneau 5 1.3% A.J. Pierzynski 2 0.5% Prince Fielder 2 0.5% Carl Crawford 0 0.0% Jake Peavy 0 0.0%

Voters really seem to hate the Phils, huh?

seawolf17 Jan 26 2022 09:46 AM Re: 2022 HOF Ballot

You know, voting is wild sometimes. Could you imagine at the end of the 2011 season, coming off a ROY and six straight top-ten MVP finishes (including one win), and an *average* of 41 HR and 123 RBI over those seven seasons, that Ryan Howard wouldn't even make it past one ballot?

Benjamin Grimm Jan 26 2022 09:49 AM Re: 2022 HOF Ballot

I noticed Ryan Howard among the dropouts and thought the same thing. It's really hard to sustain a Hall-of-Fame career.

Edgy MD Jan 26 2022 09:50 AM Re: 2022 HOF Ballot

That's why I'm generally not supportive of the one-and-done rule, nor of cutting ballot eligibility from 15 to 10 years. The Ryans Howard look a lot more attractive on bigger ballots.

Frayed Knot Jan 26 2022 10:38 AM Re: 2022 HOF Ballot

Howard's problem, despite a heckuva prime, is that he both got started late -- half season at age 25, 1st full season (and MVP) at 26 -- and then petered out early -- essentially was a sub-par player after age 31. From 2006 thru '11 he was .274/.370/.559 // 939 (139 OPS+) with an MVP, four Top-5 MVPs, and a WS title. He's one of those first half career HoF'ers whose second half failed to maintain: Mattingly, Dale Murphy, Andruw Jones, and hell, maybe David Wright too. Speaking of 1st basemen - who do you like? A, B, or C Yrs PA BA OBA SLG HR RBI OPS+ T-10 MVP 14 8,029 .268 .360 .509 409 1,298 126 2, no wins 17 8,553 .296 .384 .436 162 1,071 128 3, one win 13 6,531 .258 .343 .515 382 1,194 125 4, one win

Player A is Mark Teixeira, a one and done last night at a shockingly low (to me anyway) 1.5%.

C is R. Howard, also a one and done.

B is Keef





Keith, of course, was a fielder at that position like no other, but Teixeira was real damn good. Howard = not good at all.

nymr83 Jan 26 2022 02:24 PM Re: 2022 HOF Ballot

Edgy MD wrote: It's hard to imagine a year later, but had Curt Schilling just been gracious last year, let a publicist write his response for him, and enjoyed the last-year-on-the-ballot-bump, there's a real good chance that he'd've been up all last night celebrating and he'd be fielding congratulatory calls from all over over the country. Instead, by spitting in the direction of even the writers who supported him, he made himself toxic. The only guy crashing harder than him was Omar Vizquel, who is being investigated for sexually harassing a child. Also worth looking at who is trending forward — Scott Rolen, Billy Wagner, Andruw Jones, Todd Helton. Keeping it classy has its benefits. A lot of their votes probably came from the same voters who dropped Vizquel and Schilling. Check out Prince Fielder and Justin Morneau. One year and onto the heap. I think that Curt Schilling doesn't WANT the writers to vote for him, because he doesn't want to thank them. He wants to get put in the hall a few years from now by a committee of his fellow former players. The ballot get interesting next year. would like to see guys like Rolen get their due. It feels like we finally got past the 'steroid log jam' here where very worthy players like Jim Edmonds fell off without any consideration while we were busy arguing about the roid heads.

Edgy MD Jan 26 2022 02:57 PM Re: 2022 HOF Ballot

If that's truly Schilling's position, that's terribly sad.

Marshmallowmilkshake Jan 26 2022 03:15 PM Re: 2022 HOF Ballot

The only big name joining the conversation next year is Carlos Beltran, so there sure would seem like opportunities for Rolen, Wagner, Jones and Helton to move up a bit. The following year has Adrian Beltre and Joe Mauer. As an aside, 2024 also has some nice Metly connections: Wright, Reyes and Colon and the bastard Chase Utley. It's a shame Howard fell off so quickly. Seems like he got lost in the shuffle and deserved a little longer look.

Benjamin Grimm Jan 26 2022 04:38 PM Re: 2022 HOF Ballot

The Astros garbage pail scandal is going to weigh heavily on Beltran.

Edgy MD Jan 26 2022 05:44 PM Re: 2022 HOF Ballot

=Marshmallowmilkshake post_id=85176 time=1643235349 user_id=119]It's a shame Howard fell off so quickly. Seems like he got lost in the shuffle and deserved a little longer look.

Yeah, a longer look. Even at his best, he was clearly a one-dimensional whammer, who made more wind than a Mesopotamian god. Rolen, whose power (and health) plummeted the second half of his career, was at least twice the player Howard was, and it's good that he is being recognized as such.

nymr83 Jan 26 2022 06:14 PM Re: 2022 HOF Ballot

Benjamin Grimm wrote: The Astros garbage pail scandal is going to weigh heavily on Beltran. He was getting in by his 2nd or 3rd year before that, I'd think. Howard? I wouldn't consider him for half a second.

Edgy MD Jan 26 2022 08:04 PM Re: 2022 HOF Ballot

I tend to think he should be in the Mets Hall of Fame for signing a massive contract, going into the tank, and then dragging the best Phillies team ever down with him.

seawolf17 Jan 27 2022 05:31 AM Re: 2022 HOF Ballot

Wright and Reyes aren't even going to break 20% and it's going to make me sad.

metsmarathon Jan 27 2022 08:22 AM Re: 2022 HOF Ballot

i feel like the logjam lifting should help beltran far, far more than the trash can garbage hurts him. also, there should be no vote for andruw that is not also a vote for carlos. rolen should be in already, and it's a damn shame that he isn't. i expect him to get in next year, hopefully joined by beltran, at least. its amazing to think that wright likely won't get enough votes to stay on the ballot for more than one cycle. again, though, i think that having the logjam out of the way, might boost his chances of getting the required 5%. but ti'd take some really big-hall type voters to keep him going. getting a few guys in this next year would help him in that regard. it will be _really_ interesting to see what the voting looks like next year, what with bonds and clemens out of the way. there's still some prickly votes out there in arod, vizquel, and manny, but with bonds and clemens off the table, i think it might clear up the electorate to just readily toss them aside.

bmfc1 Jan 27 2022 07:00 PM Re: 2022 HOF Ballot

The only big name joining the conversation next year is Carlos Beltran, so there sure would seem like opportunities for Rolen, Wagner, Jones and Helton to move up a bit. The following year has Adrian Beltre and Joe Mauer. As an aside, 2024 also has some nice Metly connections: Wright, Reyes and Colon and the bastard Chase Utley. Don't forget Bautista. Utley even on the same ballot as David makes me ill. [TWEET]https://twitter.com/MLBONFOX/status/1486809495804071936[/TWEET]

seawolf17 Jan 27 2022 07:30 PM Re: 2022 HOF Ballot

Beltre should, and will. Mauer probably should, and will. Utley will get close, but guys like Bobby Grich and Lou Whitaker have similar cases and they're not in. I don't think any of the rest will.

Edgy MD Jan 27 2022 08:35 PM Re: 2022 HOF Ballot

I'm very much a Lou Whitaker proponent, and I think he had the better career to any fair observation, but he won't be on the ballot with Utley. But this ballot sure tells me that the BBWAA is not of a romantic mindset about Charlie Manuel's Phils. Pat Burrell also got Hubie'd on his lone appearance on the ballot.

nymr83 Jan 27 2022 10:08 PM Re: 2022 HOF Ballot

Unpopular opinion here: David Wright is not a Hall of Famer.

batmagadanleadoff Jan 27 2022 10:47 PM Re: 2022 HOF Ballot

=nymr83 post_id=85244 time=1643346483 user_id=54] Unpopular opinion here: David Wright is not a Hall of Famer.

If it's an unpopular opinion, it shouldn't be. Wright's not a HOF'er, not by any reasonable measure and frankly, I dont get the collective sighing over what's certain to be his eventual tossing from the HOF ballot. Me, I'll definitely be less bothered by Wright's failure to get voted in than I was over Keith or Olerud falling short. Blame that idiot tyrant Jeff Wilpon for setting in motion the derailment of what once looked like a HOF-bound career by designing the moronic stadium he designed, with its idiotic dimensions that would've stopped even Willie Mays. And then the unfortunate injuries.

Benjamin Grimm Jan 28 2022 04:31 AM Re: 2022 HOF Ballot

I don't see Wright as a Hall of Famer either. The Mets should put him in their Hall, and retire his number, but he very much fell short of Cooperstown.

seawolf17 Jan 28 2022 07:28 AM Re: 2022 HOF Ballot

I think we're all in agreement that David Wright falls well short of Hall consideration, yes. Doesn't mean we have to be happy about it, but I'd think we all agree.

nymr83 Jan 28 2022 09:56 AM Re: 2022 HOF Ballot

=batmagadanleadoff post_id=85245 time=1643348845 user_id=68] =nymr83 post_id=85244 time=1643346483 user_id=54] Unpopular opinion here: David Wright is not a Hall of Famer.

If it's an unpopular opinion, it shouldn't be. Wright's not a HOF'er, not by any reasonable measure and frankly, I dont get the collective sighing over what's certain to be his eventual tossing from the HOF ballot. Me, I'll definitely be less bothered by Wright's failure to get voted in than I was over Keith or Olerud falling short. Blame that idiot tyrant Jeff Wilpon for setting in motion the derailment of what once looked like a HOF-bound career by designing the moronic stadium he designed, with its idiotic dimensions that would've stopped even Willie Mays. And then the unfortunate injuries.


Olerud is my favorite all time player, so i'm very biased. He pretty much IS Keith Hernandez as far as HOF arguments go - but he played for five teams, ended his career in Seattle not New York, and isn't a prominent broadcaster - so his case doesn't get pounded - even in Mets circles - the way Keith's does.

stevejrogers Jan 28 2022 11:01 AM Re: 2022 HOF Ballot

=nymr83 post_id=85261 time=1643388979 user_id=54] =batmagadanleadoff post_id=85245 time=1643348845 user_id=68] =nymr83 post_id=85244 time=1643346483 user_id=54] Unpopular opinion here: David Wright is not a Hall of Famer.

If it's an unpopular opinion, it shouldn't be. Wright's not a HOF'er, not by any reasonable measure and frankly, I dont get the collective sighing over what's certain to be his eventual tossing from the HOF ballot. Me, I'll definitely be less bothered by Wright's failure to get voted in than I was over Keith or Olerud falling short. Blame that idiot tyrant Jeff Wilpon for setting in motion the derailment of what once looked like a HOF-bound career by designing the moronic stadium he designed, with its idiotic dimensions that would've stopped even Willie Mays. And then the unfortunate injuries.


Olerud is my favorite all time player, so i'm very biased. He pretty much IS Keith Hernandez as far as HOF arguments go - but he played for five teams, ended his career in Seattle not New York, and isn't a prominent broadcaster - so his case doesn't get pounded - even in Mets circles - the way Keith's does.


Keith being a key member of two championship teams is also a big part of his HOF case, while Olerud was a just a nice piece to the Blue Jay offense, and despite the best efforts of the 1999 Mets, 2000-2001 Mariners, and the team the Red Sox defeated in 2004, never made it to the World Series after that 1992-1993 Blue Jay run.

Edgy MD Jan 28 2022 12:12 PM Re: 2022 HOF Ballot

There's no stadium in the league that'll help a guy's game shine if he can't stay on the field. I'm more inclined to blame Fred Wilpon for hiring a jive-ass reality TV weight training guru. But I like Wright and I know he thinks about me a lot, so he's got a slot in my Hall of Fame, whatever the BBWAA and Cooperstown says.

metsmarathon Jan 28 2022 12:25 PM Re: 2022 HOF Ballot

you would neeed to be a _really big_ "big hall" kind of voter to vote for david, or just like voting for nice guys with good but not all-time great careers, to vote for david. i can see him getting a few votes that way. but not a lot. given the choice, i would not give him one of my votes as he falls short of nearly any criterion i could conjure up. still makes me sad. he was on the right track, until he wasn't, and its a shame. if joey bats gets more votes than david, i'll be annoyed, that's for dang sure. wright has a much better career and peak WAR, with a higher career OPS to boot. he just doesn't have the spicy home runs. as much as it pains me to say, and moreso even than it pains me to say that david is not.... chase utley should get in. easily. looking at his JAWS score, he's as good a candidate as beltran, and but a skinny whisker behind rolen and helton. (i compare JAWS to the average JAWS of hall of famers at that position). utley is basically average hall-of-fame-2b, just as beltran is average CF. ped cheat arod sits at 164%, beltre at 128%, and joe mauer at 107%. i was also playing around with fangraphs' war graphs feature. basically, if you look at the career war accumulation for them all, ventura, olerud, and hernandez all have nearly identical graphs ending at basically the same place, slight edge to keith. also, interestingly, wright and longoria are also nearly exact copies. i tried linking to those graphs, but cannot get it figured out. boo.

Willets Point Jan 28 2022 12:28 PM Re: 2022 HOF Ballot

I saw "David Wright" trending on Twitter and it was just a bunch of people talking about how much they like David Wright and think he's a good guy, which I found heartwarming.

The Hot Corner Jan 28 2022 04:56 PM Re: 2022 HOF Ballot

David Wright was always one of my favorite Mets. He had a very solid career through the age of 30. Had injuries not completely derailed his career, he may have at least been in the conversation for HOF consideration with another 5-6 good years. Still a solid player, that represented the Mets and himself admirably. He should be in the Mets HOF.

Edgy MD Feb 23 2022 07:41 PM Re: 2022 HOF Ballot

Jerry Koosman got four votes in his one year on the Hall of Fame ballot. But there were 45 dudes on the ballot that year, as opposed to 30 this year, despite baseball having expanded by four teams in the interim. I think that by pre-eliminating a lot of guys on the back end of the ballot, they think they're doing a service by not forcing the voter to consider the legacies of a bunch of Joe Sambitos and Scott Servaises, but I think the smaller ballot, where virtually everybody has a pretty decent case, inadvertently encourages the voter to be more miserly with his or her votes. If so, that's bad news for the big Hall advocates.