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An interesting stat..

Iubitul Apr 22 2006 05:51 PM

[url=http://blogs.nydailynews.com/mets/archives/2006/04/notes_beltran_awaiting_results.php]...from Adam Rubin's blog[/url] ]The Padres were 3-for-3 in steals yesterday, which means Paul Lo Duca has thrown out just one of 17 would-be base stealers this season.

Zvon Apr 22 2006 06:00 PM

Ouch.

Bret Sabermetric Apr 22 2006 06:31 PM

So if LoDuca throws worse than Piazza, and is still by popular acclaim a much better defensive catcher, how crucial is a catcher's throwing to his overall defensive abilities?

smg58 Apr 22 2006 07:17 PM

Don't look at me, I wasn't doing the acclaiming. There was some evidence based on the last two seasons that LoDuca doesn't have the arm he used to. I'd have said slightly better, at best. You do have to wonder if part of it is the way the Mets hold on runners. But then again, the throws I've seen LoDuca make remind me of, well, Piazza.

OlerudOwned Apr 22 2006 07:27 PM

Hey, at least he's hitting about .100 better than Piazza.

Bret Sabermetric Apr 22 2006 07:57 PM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Apr 22 2006 09:52 PM

Well, okay, let's look at it like this: what's the difference betwen this year's defense and last year's? The Mets have given up 3.08 earned runs per 9 innings. That's better, right? They've changed Minkiewicz for Delgado--that's a downgrade, right? They've changed Diaz for Nady--that's pretty much a wash. They've changed Piazza for Lo Duca. That's clearly an improvement--except Lo Duca is throwing out runners worse than Piazza did. So where's the improvement coming from defensively? I would argue that Lo Duca's so much better at catching than Piazza that, even though he's throwing worse, he makes up for it with the rest of his game. If you've got a better theory, let's hear it.

Elster88 Apr 22 2006 08:42 PM

Bret Sabermetric wrote: Well, okay, let's look at it like this: what's the difference betwen this year's defense and last year's? The Mets have given up 3.08 earned runs per 9 innings. That's nbetter, right? They've changed Minkiewicz for Delgado--that's a downgrade, right? They've changed Diaz for Nady--that's pretty mich a wash. They've changed Piazza for Lo Duca. That's clearly an improvement--except Lo Duca is throwing out runners worse than Piazza did. So where's the improvement coming from defensively? I would argue that Lo Duca's so much better at catching than Piazza that, even though he's throwing worse, he makes up for it with the rest of his game. If you've got a better theory, let's hear it. The obvious answer is, they're giving up less runs because of the pitching. If you think switching Piazza for LoDuca is the reason why they're giving up 3.08 runs per game, you are a silly, strange man. Or someone who hates Piazza with a passion that eliminates all rational thought.

vtmet Apr 22 2006 08:43 PM

I don't get to see many of the Mets games, but from the few times that I've seen guys steal on LoDuca, he's made good throws right to the bag...just seems that he doesn't necessarily call for pitches in locations that are easy to throw out runners with (unlike Vance Wilson who would call for fat meatballs to give him a good chance to nab runners)...

Bret Sabermetric Apr 22 2006 08:57 PM

Elster88 wrote: The obvious answer is, they're giving up less runs because of the pitching. If you think switching Piazza for LoDuca is the reason why they're giving up 3.08 runs per game, you are a silly, strange man.. You don't think catching matters? I promise you if Loduca were citting down the running game, peoplewould be all over that as difference in the defense, and would be parroting "Piazza couldn't throw out base-stealers, but otherwise he was a fine defensive catcher." This doesn't fit with that, though, does it? Which of the pitchers is better? Is Pedro better? Is Glavine any better? Has Zambrano shown signs of brilliance I haven't noticed? Did losing Seo and Benson make this staff any better? If you've answered Yes to any of these, or Yes to any other pitching improvement, doesn't the catcher help the pitchers pitch better? If the Mets' staff leads the NL in ERA this year, are you prepared to say that none of that improvement is credited to Lo Duca? If so, you are far more strange than I, and far sillier than Bozo the clown on some powerful weed.

Elster88 Apr 22 2006 09:31 PM

Glavine has been better. Pedro has been about the same. Bannister has been about the same as Benson. Zambrano has been as awful as Ishii/Zambrano were last year. Trachsel has been worse than Seo. The bullpen has been better by leaps and bounds than last year's bullpen. That's where I put the credit for the dramatic improvement in RA over the first 15 games. Sure, some of the credit for the team improvement goes to LoDuca...for his hitting. I have not been impressed with his defense thus far. But if indeed LoDuca's defense has been better than Piazza's, then some of the credit for the lower RA goes there. But a helluva lot less than you are implying. I think you probably agree with me on all of these points, and are only implying that LoDuca's defense is such a dramatic improvement in order to sully Piazza's name.

Bret Sabermetric Apr 22 2006 09:41 PM

Elster88 wrote: But if it indeed LoDuca's defense has been better than Piazza's, the some of the credit for the lower RA goes there. But a helluva lot less than you are implying. I think you probably agree with me on all of these points, and are only implying that LoDuca's defense is such a dramatic improvement in order to sully Piazza's name. No, my point is simple as it's irrefutable: if LoDuca is an improvement on Piazza defensively, and I think that's pretty widely accepted, and the Mets' defense has improved since he took over, and if LoDuca's throwing is less effective than Piazza's, then it follows that Piazza's catching--aside from his throwing--was terrible. Which is what I believe having watched Piazza, and having heard his catching described by others, for many years. Sullying Piazza's name--at least as far as his defensive rep goes--is totally unnecessary. He takes care of that just fine, outside of Mets' fans. And now he's very busily sullying his offensive reputation. All he needs to do now, really, is admit he lied about not being gay*, and admit he tried to stick Clemens with that bat shard, and there's no more sullying to be done. *NTTAWWT

vtmet Apr 22 2006 09:49 PM

Everytime that I see LoDuca or Castro call for a fastball inside near the batters hands with 2 strikes on the batter to setup the outside strikeout pitch, it confirms that they understand the art of catching so much more than Piazza ever did...it used to frustrate the hell out of me, when a pitcher would get 2 strikes on a batter and then Piazza would be afraid to call for anything inside and just waste pitches off the plate outside until he allowed the batter to get off the hook with a full count...Piazza just never would put away a batter when his pitcher had the batter on the ropes...

Rockin' Doc Apr 22 2006 10:27 PM

Based on the small sample size I have seen of their play in right field, I personally tend to see Nady as a better defender than Diaz. Nady is far from being a gold glover, but he isn't nearly the train wreck that Diaz appeared to be last year. I imagine that Diaz should improve with more time in the outfield, but I definitely think that Nady's defense in right field this season is better than was Diaz's last season. I agree with Elster88, that Glavine and the bullpen have shown improvement over their performance of last year at this early stage of the season. Hopefully, Bret is also correct in his assertion that LoDuca's calling of a game and handling of the pitching staff have a positive effect on the overall perfomance by said staff.

Frayed Knot Apr 22 2006 11:48 PM

I'm going to go out on a limb here and opine that 20-some consect innings of shutout ball from the bullpen (until last night's late run) can put a positive dent in the team ERA when a season is just 2 weeks old.

Bret Sabermetric Apr 23 2006 09:08 AM

So what we've been exposed to is a small sample size anomaly that has no bearing on reality. Tell me when you get off that and when we can start discussing the 2006 season.

Elster88 Apr 23 2006 10:04 AM

There are so many holes in this that I don't know where to begin.