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Tell Elaine: Mets To Retire Keith's Number

bmfc1 Jan 11 2022 04:28 PM

[TWEET]https://twitter.com/Mets/status/1481044734684667905[/TWEET] https://www.mlb.com/mets/history/retired-numbers

G-Fafif Jan 11 2022 04:31 PM Re: Tell Elaine: Mets To Retire Keith's Number

Well deserved.

kcmets Jan 11 2022 04:33 PM Re: Tell Elaine: Mets To Retire Keith's Number

WOW!!

ashie62 Jan 11 2022 04:36 PM Re: Tell Elaine: Mets To Retire Keith's Number

Keith is an iconic Met and truly deserving. In my only brush with him he made a grand entrance with a babe grand slam single game. Much gravitas.

batmagadanleadoff Jan 11 2022 04:44 PM Re: Tell Elaine: Mets To Retire Keith's Number

This is fucking great news. It's the right thing. If the Mets retired Carter's number before Keith's, I woulda had a tantrum and gone all Elvis on my TV and shot it with an AR-15 or something. Me personally, if it was up to me, I wouldn't have even voted Carter into the Mets Hall of Fame, but I get the sense that this is a pointless argument to make with youse. Don't get me started on why some people thought Carter's Met uni was more deserving of retirement and more of a priority than Keith's. I'm still waiting for an even half-rational explanation of that one. Next stop for Keith --- Cooperstown.

kcmets Jan 11 2022 04:56 PM Re: Tell Elaine: Mets To Retire Keith's Number

=batmagadanleadoff post_id=84405 time=1641944653 user_id=68]Me personally, if it was up to me, I wouldn't have even voted Carter into the Mets Hall of Fame, but I get the sense that this is a pointless argument to make with youse. Don't get me started on why some people thought Carter's Met uni was more deserving of retirement and more of a priority than Keith's.

Please, get started! Name names. I don't really recall this place ever being

Camp Carter number-retirement wise and actually many are/were quite critical

of Gary in some respects. Camera Carter, Pop-up Carter, etc....

batmagadanleadoff Jan 11 2022 04:59 PM Re: Tell Elaine: Mets To Retire Keith's Number

=kcmets post_id=84407 time=1641945389 user_id=53] =batmagadanleadoff post_id=84405 time=1641944653 user_id=68]Me personally, if it was up to me, I wouldn't have even voted Carter into the Mets Hall of Fame, but I get the sense that this is a pointless argument to make with youse. Don't get me started on why some people thought Carter's Met uni was more deserving of retirement and more of a priority than Keith's.

Please, get started! Name names. I don't really recall this place ever being

Camp Carter number-retirement wise and actually many are/were quite critical

of Gary in some respects. Camera Carter, Pop-up Carter, etc....


Name names? Don't start. Why don't you back to the football thread and tell us when the Super Bowl starts? Post something real helpful.

batmagadanleadoff Jan 11 2022 05:00 PM Re: Tell Elaine: Mets To Retire Keith's Number

Just the fact that his number's in limbo irks me to no end. He's the Derek Jeter of the Mets and I say that in the very worst ways imaginable.

Edgy MD Jan 11 2022 05:12 PM Re: Tell Elaine: Mets To Retire Keith's Number

Oh, I hear ya. We're talking about the herpes thing, right?

kcmets Jan 11 2022 05:32 PM Re: Tell Elaine: Mets To Retire Keith's Number

=batmagadanleadoff post_id=84408 time=1641945598 user_id=68]Name names? Don't start. Why don't you back to the football thread and tell us when the Super Bowl starts? Post something real helpful.

Not starting anything. You made it sound like this place was beating the

drum for #8 to be retired and even suggested maybe before #17. I don't

believe such drumming occurred, at least not en masse.



You'll have to wait a few weeks for Super Bowl news.

kcmets Jan 11 2022 06:09 PM Re: Tell Elaine: Mets To Retire Keith's Number

USAToday/NorthJersey.com Story

seawolf17 Jan 11 2022 06:44 PM Re: Tell Elaine: Mets To Retire Keith's Number

Absolutely thrilled for him, for us, for everyone. Brilliant.

Marshmallowmilkshake Jan 11 2022 06:55 PM Re: Tell Elaine: Mets To Retire Keith's Number

Fantastic news! Well-earned tribute to a player who played a pivotal role in creating a new era for the team! My mother and grandmother accidentally poked him in the stomach with a broomstick in a Jupiter Publix. True story.

Johnny Lunchbucket Jan 11 2022 07:11 PM Re: Tell Elaine: Mets To Retire Keith's Number

It was inevitable. I'm also glad 8 won't go with him. Qere it up to me I'd have retired 86 and be done with it

G-Fafif Jan 11 2022 07:22 PM Re: Tell Elaine: Mets To Retire Keith's Number

Johnny Lunchbucket wrote: Were it up to me I'd have retired 86 and be done with it Never let it be said Jake Hager doesn't leave an impression.

bmfc1 Jan 11 2022 07:41 PM Re: Tell Elaine: Mets To Retire Keith's Number

[TWEET]https://twitter.com/BackPageGuyNYDN/status/1481092751596924929[/TWEET]

Frayed Knot Jan 11 2022 07:48 PM Re: Tell Elaine: Mets To Retire Keith's Number

I still don't love all this number retiring stuff, but it's not something I'm going to go to the mat over.

Marshmallowmilkshake Jan 12 2022 06:35 AM Re: Tell Elaine: Mets To Retire Keith's Number

[url]https://www.sny.tv/articles/keith-hernandez-mets-number-retired-more-mets Danny Abriano of SNY suggests what other Mets players could and should have their numbers retired: Wright, Carter, Beltran, and Gooden.

Frayed Knot Jan 12 2022 06:37 AM Re: Tell Elaine: Mets To Retire Keith's Number

=Marshmallowmilkshake post_id=84428 time=1641994520 user_id=119]: Wright, Carter, Beltran, and Gooden.

Yes, HARD No, No, Probably not but I'll think about it

roger_that Jan 12 2022 07:43 AM Re: Tell Elaine: Mets To Retire Keith's Number

I think they should retire players' favorite foods from the clubhouse post-game spread, and leave the numbers alone.

kcmets Jan 12 2022 08:31 AM Re: Tell Elaine: Mets To Retire Keith's Number

Wright - Yes Carter No Beltran - No Gooden - Lord, No Kranepool - Maybe Kingman - Would Be Nice, But I Get It

seawolf17 Jan 12 2022 08:33 AM Re: Tell Elaine: Mets To Retire Keith's Number

[IMG]https://mlb.nbcsports.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/7/2011/03/mookie-wilson-number-one.jpeg[/IMG]

Edgy MD Jan 12 2022 09:04 AM Re: Tell Elaine: Mets To Retire Keith's Number

It's like the reporter whose first question to the World Series MVP is "Are you gonna repeat?!" the first question after a number retirement is "Who's gonna have their number retired next?!" Bleh.

batmagadanleadoff Jan 12 2022 09:11 AM Re: Tell Elaine: Mets To Retire Keith's Number

So I was wondering, .... if Keith were to one day get the Cooperstown nod, and the HOF were to solely decide which cap would be on Keith's plaque ... which cap would it be?

roger_that Jan 12 2022 09:12 AM Re: Tell Elaine: Mets To Retire Keith's Number

Much longer, slightly better, career as a Cardinal

Benjamin Grimm Jan 12 2022 09:16 AM Re: Tell Elaine: Mets To Retire Keith's Number

But a life-long association with the Mets. Don't know if that counts.

batmagadanleadoff Jan 12 2022 09:20 AM Re: Tell Elaine: Mets To Retire Keith's Number

=roger_that post_id=84441 time=1642003976 user_id=128] Much longer, slightly better, career as a Cardinal

Yeah. But not so much better that the Hall wouldn't let Keith decide. Probably. Still, either way, it wouldn't be a slam dunk that Keith'd go in as a Met.

batmagadanleadoff Jan 12 2022 09:20 AM Re: Tell Elaine: Mets To Retire Keith's Number

Benjamin Grimm wrote: But a life-long association with the Mets. Don't know if that counts. My guess is yes.

G-Fafif Jan 12 2022 09:23 AM Re: Tell Elaine: Mets To Retire Keith's Number

Keith, I believe, would request the ever popular blank cap.

G-Fafif Jan 12 2022 09:59 AM Re: Tell Elaine: Mets To Retire Keith's Number

SNY plans to “go live” at 1:30 ET for Keith coverage, presumably regarding 17 being retired, though an hour of Keith feeding Hadji, doing the crossword and tending to household chores might also be interesting.

Benjamin Grimm Jan 12 2022 10:03 AM Re: Tell Elaine: Mets To Retire Keith's Number

I first read that as "SNL" not "SNY". THAT would also be interesting.

kcmets Jan 12 2022 11:39 AM Re: Tell Elaine: Mets To Retire Keith's Number

=G-Fafif post_id=84458 time=1642006789 user_id=55] SNY plans to “go live” at 1:30 ET for Keith coverage, presumably regarding 17 being retired,

Hadji must be stuck in traffic, 'game on' still.

G-Fafif Jan 12 2022 12:37 PM Re: Tell Elaine: Mets To Retire Keith's Number

Keith casually mentioned Old Timers Day — something Steve Cohen said he'd revive — is on deck to return in 2022, with 50 or so alumni invited. The Mets haven't yet announced it, but Sandy acknowledged planning is underway.

kcmets Jan 12 2022 12:41 PM Re: Tell Elaine: Mets To Retire Keith's Number

It wasn't on SNY here. Are there regional versions of the station?

G-Fafif Jan 12 2022 12:55 PM Re: Tell Elaine: Mets To Retire Keith's Number

I watched it streaming on SNY's YouTube channel. Viewable here. [youtube]OywoidKSP9A[/youtube]

kcmets Jan 12 2022 01:14 PM Re: Tell Elaine: Mets To Retire Keith's Number

Coolio, thanks

Edgy MD Jan 12 2022 02:53 PM Re: Tell Elaine: Mets To Retire Keith's Number

It certainly shouldn't be a disqualfier, but it kind of works against the case for retiring a number when it was re-assigned shortly after the player shed it, and has been worn by several other players in the interim. I tend to think there should be a soft retirement for every player's number, and the digits should remain mothballed at least while the player is active, readily available for him to reclaim should he return to the Mets. And then, as available sub-three-digit numbers start to wane, these non-retired-but-set-aside numbers start to get re-integrated in the reverse order of the impact on the franchise of the last player to wear them. When a guy has been off the team retired and/or retired for 15 or more years, and his number hasn't been re-assigned under these terms, the official retirement of his number ultimately becomes a fait accompli.

kcmets Jan 12 2022 02:56 PM Re: Tell Elaine: Mets To Retire Keith's Number

Yeah, but, yay or nay on #17 being retired this season?

batmagadanleadoff Jan 12 2022 03:01 PM Re: Tell Elaine: Mets To Retire Keith's Number

=kcmets post_id=84493 time=1642024596 user_id=53] Yeah, but, yay or nay on #17 being retired this season?

What are you, a nut or something?

kcmets Jan 12 2022 03:06 PM Re: Tell Elaine: Mets To Retire Keith's Number

I'm pleased as punch that #17 is being retired. I'm asking Edgy to explain his post. He won't, he doesn't like direct questions.

Edgy MD Jan 12 2022 03:27 PM Re: Tell Elaine: Mets To Retire Keith's Number

=kcmets post_id=84498 time=1642025198 user_id=53] I'm pleased as punch that #17 is being retired. I'm asking Edgy to explain his post. He won't, he doesn't like direct questions.

Sure I do. I love them.



Take a longtime Met. Better yet, lets take a handfull of longtime Mets. Let's take the starting rotation of the 2015 pennant winning Mets — Colón, deGrom, Harvey, Niese, and Syndergaard. Each of these guys has a legacy with the team. You can show respect to each of them by temporarily mothballing their numbers when they leave.



Colón leaves the team after the 2016 season, but you don't reassign his 40. He could be back! Then after the 2018 season, he's pretty much done for good. The number is available, but let's have a little respect. You could re-circulate it, but 53 (say) has been out of circulation longer. That has been out of circulation longer, since Bobby Abreu in 2014. So that would be re-assigned first. Explain to any new player, hey, you get the number with the weakest historical legacy, it becomes that much easier for you to claim that number all-time. Several other numbers get assigned before 40, but that one sits tight until maybe 2026, when 40 has the least legacy among available digits, a new player gets it and we all recall Colón.



Number 33 would still be out of circulation for Harvey, but it would be inching closer to re-assignment starting with his retirement (which might come any day). Number 45 would be sitting tight waiting for Noah's return, and if that doesn't come to pass, it may be a dozen or so years after his retirement before it's the least legacied number available. And that's what you always assign first — the least-legacied number.



Niese's number may take four or five years to see re-circulation.



But if and when deGrom retires, or Heaven forbid, leaves the team, his 48 won't be inching closer to the least-legacied number as the years pass. Fifteen or 20 years down the road, 28 may have been reassigned three or four times, with 48 getting no closer to being re-assigned. If that's the case, his number will have been retired as a matter of course long before the retirement is made official.



Basically it comes down to two principles: (1) Don't re-assign a number while the last player to wear it is still active; and (2) re-assign numbers in reverse order of their established historical legacy to date.



It's one way of doing it.

kcmets Jan 12 2022 03:30 PM Re: Tell Elaine: Mets To Retire Keith's Number

=batmagadanleadoff post_id=84496 time=1642024871 user_id=68] =kcmets post_id=84493 time=1642024596 user_id=53] Yeah, but, yay or nay on #17 being retired this season?

What are you, a nut or something?


Maybe if you would give yourself an hour or so to process a post before just

lashing out at me you might do better? It's like, kcmets posted something,

must mock him and attempt to humiliate!

batmagadanleadoff Jan 12 2022 03:32 PM Re: Tell Elaine: Mets To Retire Keith's Number

=G-Fafif post_id=84448 time=1642004593 user_id=55] Keith, I believe, would request the ever popular blank cap.

Could be. Whatever the outome, I'm pretty sure that the Hall would let Keith choose. A good comp would be Reggie Jackson, who was allowed to choose a NYY cap for his plaque, even though his career with Oakland was indisputably better and longer than his NYY one.



OTOH, the Hall made the decison in Carter's case. who was denied his Mets cap choice for his plaque: His HOF case was like 70-80% maybe even more, accumulated as an Expo.

Willets Point Jan 12 2022 04:12 PM Re: Tell Elaine: Mets To Retire Keith's Number

Personally, I've come to believe that instead of retiring numbers, the numbers should be assigned anew each season in a special ceremony at Spring Training. Once the starting players for all the position players are determined, they are assigned a number that corresponds to the position's scorecard number (2 for catcher, 3 for first base, and so on). Now the #1 is the pitchers number but since you have multiple pitchers, the starting pitchers numbers start with one so your ace wears 11, your number two pitcher wears 12, and so on. Bench players wear numbers in the 20s. If you have a platoon you might want to assign both players a number in the 20s instead of giving one of them a number in the 2 to 8 range. The bullpen wear numbers in the 30s. Players acquired in-season through call-ups or trades get numbers starting from 40 in the order that they arrive. If you have a player who is exclusively a designated hitter, they wear 0. I would reserve the #1 as a special honor that can be awarded to a pitcher if they won the Cy Young Award in the previous season or some similar accomplishment like leading the league in ERA or strikeouts. Similarly, the #10 would only be given out to a position player who accomplished something great in the previous season like winning the MVP or leading the league in homeruns. Anyhow, that's my system.

G-Fafif Jan 12 2022 08:44 PM Re: Tell Elaine: Mets To Retire Keith's Number

Keith, with Howie and Wayne, intense as ever when recalling specific at-bats. Plus a little “what if” regarding a trade that wasn't made. https://omny.fm/shows/880-apple-bites/howie-rose-wayne-randazzo-talk-with-keith-hernande

Frayed Knot Jan 13 2022 05:44 AM Re: Tell Elaine: Mets To Retire Keith's Number

An alternative to Willets's suggestion is for teams to keep certain uniform numbers out of circulation until they decide that a current player playing the position of a past star is worthy of the honor. Such a decision would be like saying, 'Yes Pete Alonso, we now think you are worthy of uniform #17', or that some pitcher has earned the right to wear #16, some catcher #8, etc. This is a tradition among at least some soccer cultures and those numbers -- and they'd be different for different teams -- would wind up being issued less often but usually for longer spans and thus form a kind of team history. You might still want to permanently retire a few for the truly career great guys -- in our case Seaver and ... probably no one else -- but I'd really like to get away from this trend where we seem to be in constant 'Who's next?' mode and the notion that they're somehow dis-honoring someone by not retiring their number, even if said player spent the majority of his career on a different club. Too few > Too many

kcmets Jan 13 2022 06:00 AM Re: Tell Elaine: Mets To Retire Keith's Number

So after Keef, let's do David and be done with all this for another decade.

Benjamin Grimm Jan 13 2022 07:00 AM Re: Tell Elaine: Mets To Retire Keith's Number

I agree. David Wright, then no one else until deGrom (potentially).

Centerfield Jan 13 2022 12:15 PM Re: Tell Elaine: Mets To Retire Keith's Number

If the sentiment is that Keith deserves his number retired, why don't Doc and Darryl deserve similar? They had longer, and better Mets careers.

batmagadanleadoff Jan 13 2022 12:40 PM Re: Tell Elaine: Mets To Retire Keith's Number

=Centerfield post_id=84548 time=1642101335 user_id=65] If the sentiment is that Keith deserves his number retired, why don't Doc and Darryl deserve similar? They had longer, and better Mets careers.

I always ask myself this question. Drug use, I guess? Squandered talent? I'm forgetting now, but did Straw's drug use even take place as a Met? Or did that come after? Their legacies aren't clean. Straw left on bad terms and Doc had multiple lengthy league imposed suspensions for drug use.



Straw was the most celebrated draft pick in franchise history ... a rookie of the year and a runner up MVP who probably deserved the MVP award he just missed ... the premiere power hitter from the Mets most dominant era ... and the Mets all-time HR leader.



Doc is among the top few Mets on the leaderboards in every single major franchise pitching category ... was a rookie of the year ... a Cy Young award winner who was outright robbed of both a second Cy Young award and an MVP and who turned in the best pitching season, WAR-wise, in the entire history of modern baseball. At the time of his departure, he was one of the most prolific strikeout artists, rate-wise, in baseball history. He had a two year peak, from roughly the middle of 1984 to about the middle of 1986, where he was about as dazzling and dominant as anybody who ever pitched.



Based on their accomplishments only, they should be slam-dunk candidates for number retirement, with better cases than Keith and Koosman.

Willets Point Jan 13 2022 01:07 PM Re: Tell Elaine: Mets To Retire Keith's Number

Straw started using coke in the minor leagues if not earlier. Not that I hold that against him since I consider the "drug abuse is a personal failure" narrative to be bullshit.

Centerfield Jan 13 2022 02:17 PM Re: Tell Elaine: Mets To Retire Keith's Number

Doc and Darryl are #3 and #5 in career Mets WAR. https://www.metshotcorner.com/2016/mets-all-time-top-10-by-war/ Keith and Piazza, both who have numbers retired, are 12 and 13.

batmagadanleadoff Jan 13 2022 03:27 PM Re: Tell Elaine: Mets To Retire Keith's Number

Doc and Darryl are #3 and #5 in career Mets WAR. https://www.metshotcorner.com/2016/mets-all-time-top-10-by-war/ Keith and Piazza, both who have numbers retired, are 12 and 13. Carter's 45th, behind Saberhagen, Backman, Nimmo and Lagares. .But at least he singlehandedly delivered a WS title to the .Mets, all by himself. With the 6th best WAR of any '86 Met. He put the Mets over the top.A team that won 108 regular season games and clinched their division by the 4th of July. The '86 Mets didn't win the WS; Gary Carter and the Mets won that WS, with the rest of the Mets playing The Pips to Carter's Gladys Knight-like star-billing. It's those intangibles. Carter worked in mysterious ways.

stevejrogers Jan 13 2022 03:33 PM Re: Tell Elaine: Mets To Retire Keith's Number

No one has yet, emphasis on yet, taken down Doc as the second best Metly pitcher of all time. All-time of course is a much taller order with Seaver ranking among the all-time greats to ever toe the rubber! So I can get behind #16 getting officially mothballed, if this (more so Koosman than Hernandez) is the road the franchise is going down.

batmagadanleadoff Jul 08 2022 11:51 PM Re: Tell Elaine: Mets To Retire Keith's Number Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Jul 10 2022 01:08 PM

Typewriter Chewing Gum commemorates the retirement of Keith Hernandez's Mets unifom number with a special subset to its 2022 total team Mets set (code named Rock and Roll Part 2). [FIMG=600]https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52207693855_77f019f9df_h.jpg[/FIMG] [FIMG=600]https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52203971759_e55a70d4c4_h.jpg[/FIMG]

Edgy MD Jul 09 2022 07:11 AM Re: Tell Elaine: Mets To Retire Keith's Number

I realize temporal parallels aren't really a thing with the Rock 'n' Roll set, but it's kind of weird seeing the B-52's Cosmic Thing-era lineup posing with the Bouncing off the Satellites-era Mets. Strange that I probably wouldn't have the same reaction seeing players in a card with musicians photos from decades before, but it's weirder seeing players with musicians photographed four or five years later. Cool card, though.

batmagadanleadoff Jul 10 2022 12:07 AM Re: Tell Elaine: Mets To Retire Keith's Number

Edgy MD wrote: I realize temporal parallels aren't really a thing with the Rock 'n' Roll set, but it's kind of weird seeing the B-52's Cosmic Thing-era lineup posing with the Bouncing off the Satellites-era Mets. Strange that I probably wouldn't have the same reaction seeing players in a card with musicians photos from decades before, but it's weirder seeing players with musicians photographed four or five years later. Cool card, though. I know what you mean. When I made that card, I was aware of the issue, but didn't make much of it. Ordinarily, when I'm making a current card, like a 2022 card in 2022, I'm not concerned about putting a future rock and roll image in the card because it's impossible to do that. The future hasn't yet arrived. The future's in the future and when the future finally gets here, it won't be the future anymore: it'll be the present. But the time-space continuum could get screwed up when I make a mid-1980's Mets card in 2022. So you put the bug in my head after I read your post. So much so, that I couldn't get it out of my head and so I ended up compelled to fix things. I swapped out Jesse Orosco for Sid Fernandez. So now, with Big Sid in there instead of Orosco, that card can pass for an image of the 1989 Mets and the 1989 Mets can rightfully hang with the Cosmic Thing B52s without potentially causing a time traveling universe altering caastrophe. Doc would be proud of me. And I mean Doc Brown. Emmet Brown. Not Doc Gooden. [FIMG=666]https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52207467964_ae5bf84af0_h.jpg[/FIMG] [FIMG=500]https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52207693855_77f019f9df_h.jpg[/FIMG]

whippoorwill Jul 10 2022 02:08 PM Re: Tell Elaine: Mets To Retire Keith's Number

Sid with the golden Hawaiian suntan