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Bet Your Bottom Dollar

MFS62 Jan 24 2022 05:30 PM

(Thanks FK for giving me the idea for this topic) How do you feel about sports betting and the ability to bet any time from any where? Do you like it? Do you do it? What limits would you put on it? (e,g, - certain sports, mid game bets, individual player bets, etc.) Just wondering. Later

Frayed Knot Jan 24 2022 06:44 PM Re: Bet Your Bottom Dollar

I don't gamble so I don't particularly care. But one of many open and honest conversations we Haven't been having in this country has been about gambling. Almost all state and local governments professed to be against it but only as they had a monopoly on it via lotteries, OTB, and other such schemes which essentially served as a tax on the poor but which they none-the-less promoted as a way to get ahead while disguising the odds against do so. And don't get me started on the bullshit rationalization about it all benefitting education, or the unfair protection that restricting it to Las Vegas (and later Atlantic City) gave those locations, or the idea that certain ethnicities were permitted to have them while others couldn't. To your question more specifically: that sports gambling is now rapidly being legalized is long overdue unless you're of the mind to go the puritan way and favor banning all the already existing forms. Like I said, I don't care, but I do get a kick out of the leagues (particularly the NFL) embracing it now that they see a way to get a piece of the action after years -- Decades!! -- of insisting that even the hint of it would lead to the ruination of their sports all while they silently knew it was the key to their success all along.

kcmets Jan 24 2022 07:12 PM Re: Bet Your Bottom Dollar

I have nothing against legalized gambling. I do have a problem with the incessant advertising that seems to have exploded overnight and the two-dozen betting shows on all the sports stations. And it's part of the pre-game shows. And it's part of the post game shows. It became part of the coverage in the blink of an eye. I don't think the ads are a good message for all to see. At least not any better than running a clever cigarette ad, or an ad suggesting that drink- ing a certain whiskey will get you lucky with ladies or such. Both of which are banned at the present time. The $1,000 risk-free-bet-slant tease has to go too. Risk free bet? Really.

Edgy MD Jan 24 2022 07:52 PM Re: Bet Your Bottom Dollar

Yeah, agreed with most of the above. The problem is less legalized betting than it is the organizations being in bed with the gambling industry. Willie Mays and Mickey Mantle got blacklisted for gladhanding at casinos. It was a disgracefully wrong move, but for the right reason — keeping a firewall between the integrity of the game and those who can make a windfall on a single outcome. Forty years later and baseball seems to be lighting the gaming industry's cigarettes.

Fman99 Jan 25 2022 05:23 AM Re: Bet Your Bottom Dollar

=kcmets post_id=85040 time=1643076735 user_id=53] I have nothing against legalized gambling. I do have a problem with the incessant advertising that seems to have exploded overnight and the two-dozen betting shows on all the sports stations. And it's part of the pre-game shows. And it's part of the post game shows. It became part of the coverage in the blink of an eye.

Yep this x1000. Don't sully my pre-game analysis of pitching and hitting matchups with the money line. IDGAF

Frayed Knot Jan 25 2022 05:52 AM Re: Bet Your Bottom Dollar

=kcmets post_id=85040 time=1643076735 user_id=53] I have nothing against legalized gambling. ... I do have a problem with the incessant advertising that seems to have exploded overnight and the two-dozen betting shows on all the sports stations.

Naive, though, to think that we can approve of the former without also getting the latter. The first made the second inevitable.

And back to one of my points, it would be tough for governments to justify a ban on gambling advertising -- a la the cigarette

bans -- while they're running their: 'All You Need is a Dollar and a Dream' come-ons.

kcmets Jan 25 2022 06:18 AM Re: Bet Your Bottom Dollar

Fair enough, but the gambling advertising versus lottery advertising ratio is about 1,000 to one. We'll see what happens over the next few years but I think this inundated brainwashing is gonna bite a lot of people square in the ass. I don't have grandchildren, but I certainly wouldn't want my 7 year old to watch a Knicks game with me and start asking questions about getting some action. "Want yo' money, git yo' money!" Please.

Frayed Knot Jan 25 2022 06:50 AM Re: Bet Your Bottom Dollar

... but the gambling advertising versus lottery advertising ratio is about 1,000 to one. On sports oriented shows, sure, but that's a case of finding their target and doing saturation bombing. I'd venture though that lottery ads are more widespread. They run on the 6 O'Clock news, Jeopardy, and a host of other 'family' programming. So thinner, maybe, but wider. Look, I don't like these ads any more than you. But to many the idea of following and knowing sports is synonymous with gambling on them -- again, particularly so in the case of football (both kinds of football as is quickly apparent by looking at Premier League 'kits') -- but they all see it as a 'growth' opportunity. I think it would be great if MLB, and shows connected to it, would decide that just because legalized sports gambling is now a fact of life doesn't mean they have to patronize those who promote it (maintaining the firewall that Edgy mentions), just not holding my breath until it happens. All of this reminds me of the scene in THE GODFATHER where the assembled Mafia bosses decide that they're going to "allow" [run] the drug trade ... But they're going to control it!! "I don't want it near schools ... we're going to keep it in the dark neighborhoods" Once you legalize something you begin to normalize it and it becomes a part of everyday life. We lived without legalized gambling for so long in this country -- again: except in those cases where governments had a monopoly on them -- that it suddenly being above ground takes getting used to.

metsmarathon Jan 25 2022 07:16 AM Re: Bet Your Bottom Dollar

there's a part of me that thinks that, hell, if people gambling on baseball can get people to actually care about baseball (like football, which is driven greatly by sports gambling) then lets let people gamble on baseball. i wish the betting shit was either better disguised, or like, not stupid, but it is what it is. like, hey, here are our picks for today's daily fantasy line, and here's actually why, with information and somesuch, not just tacked on like, blah blah blah, and now here's the betting line. awkward pause. and now more talking about the games.... it's crazy, right, because people lap up any and all gambling & fantasy football talk, but once it comes to baseball, people get all antsy. baseball gets constantly held to a higher standard of what we'll allow as fans, and it suffers for it.

Marshmallowmilkshake Jan 25 2022 07:26 AM Re: Bet Your Bottom Dollar

I've read that the leagues expect gambling to be the next big revenue stream, and there will soon be seats with tablets there so you can bet on the game as it is going -- next home run, stolen base....whatever. I get that some people love it. It's not my thing. I played the penny slots on a cruise once. Played a dollar's worth, got my winnings up to $1.50 and cashed out while still ahead. It's heartbreaking to see people lining up to buy lottery tickets when you know they should be using it to buy groceries. I remember years ago when Sports Illustrated did a deep dive at what were then common ads with professional "touts" offering to give you their best picks for a fee. Of course it was all a scam. But I can see that rearing its ugly head again. I just don't see how anything good can ever come out of this.

Edgy MD Jan 25 2022 08:36 AM Re: Bet Your Bottom Dollar

=metsmarathon post_id=85050 time=1643120174 user_id=83]it's crazy, right, because people lap up any and all gambling & fantasy football talk, but once it comes to baseball, people get all antsy. baseball gets constantly held to a higher standard of what we'll allow as fans, and it suffers for it.

Why do you think a higher standard means baseball suffers?

MFS62 Jan 25 2022 09:30 AM Re: Bet Your Bottom Dollar

I've read that the leagues expect gambling to be the next big revenue stream, and there will soon be seats with tablets there so you can bet on the game as it is going -- next home run, stolen base....whatever. That reminds me of something in one of Jim Brosnan's books, written over 50 years ago. (I paraphrase) "There were gamblers in Wrigley Field who would bet that the next pitch would be fouled off into the third base stands and hit a Blond on the left wrist." Now, in-game situational bets will be legalized. Later

metsmarathon Jan 25 2022 09:37 AM Re: Bet Your Bottom Dollar

because the media blasts baseball for the same shit that football and the other 'major' sports skate on, and it drives the more casual fans to think that there's something wrong with baseball, and they turn it away or turn it off. and the die hard fans get all pissy and bitchy and turn it off too. the 94 strike was devastating to baseball. every other sport loses a season and people come clamoring back. people are out there wringing their hands over whether or not we'll induct ped guys into the hall of fame. when was the last time PEDs were even a topic of conversation in those other sports? please! football and basketball bodies are all natural, but baseball players are the only juicers? and baseball is the only sport to endure shame as a result of it, too. the only thing that has a whisper of a chance of laying a scratch on football is concussions, and while it's surely turned off some, they're doing better and better than every, while ruining kids and lives all over the damned place. it's all part of the spectacle. all the more eyeballs. but anything bad happens in baseball and it's all part of the unfortunate decay, and people walk away, or tune in less, or just stop caring.

Edgy MD Jan 25 2022 09:50 AM Re: Bet Your Bottom Dollar

because the media blasts baseball for the same shit that football and the other 'major' sports skate on, and it drives the more casual fans to think that there's something wrong with baseball, and they turn it away or turn it off. and the die hard fans get all pissy and bitchy and turn it off too. I don't know. I get that "the media blasts baseball for the same shit that football and the other 'major' sports skate on" (which is another way of saying that it's held to a higher standard), but I don't go from there to this hurting baseball's appeal. As for football, I think we hit peak NFL ten years ago. I think it's taking plenty of scratches. I remember a reporter going to a tailgate before a Jets season opener and nobody there could name any players on the team. I don't really think of baseball and football as competitors. I think MLB's real competition today should be whatever MLB was yesterday. Carve your own path.

Frayed Knot Jan 25 2022 05:33 PM Re: Bet Your Bottom Dollar

Edgy MD wrote: As for football, I think we hit peak NFL ten years ago. I think it's taking plenty of scratches. I remember a reporter going to a tailgate before a Jets season opener and nobody there could name any players on the team. But, oddly, this is one of the NFL's great strengths, that fans will attend, and particularly watch, games involving teams that aren't theirs and which they know very few of the players. It's like the most common answer for why Joe NFL-Fan is watching a particular game is: 'Duh ... Because it's on TV!' As I mentioned recently in another thread, talk about the NFL is endless these days but it revolves almost entirely around QBs while the majority of his teammates remain anonymous. At best one or two others might get occasional mentions (often for bad reasons) but usually the second-most mentioned name is the head coach and I'm not sure that the Offensive and Defensive coordinators aren't third and fourth. Personally I find that all a bit odd but it obviously doesn't bother a sizable percentage of fans and that's what fuels the TV ratings that are in turn responsible for the real business of the NFL: printing money

batmagadanleadoff Jan 25 2022 06:22 PM Re: Bet Your Bottom Dollar

Frayed Knot wrote: But, oddly, this is one of the NFL's great strengths, that fans will attend, and particularly watch, games involving teams that aren't theirs and which they know very few of the players. It's like the most common answer for why Joe NFL-Fan is watching a particular game is: 'Duh ... Because it's on TV!' Why not? It's the most dumbed down sport in the history of the world and even before the history of the world. Football is like that card game the baseball players played in Bang the Drum Slowly. No one knows nothing and everybody makes believe they're experts. Nobody, and I mean nobody has a fucking clue as to what's going on. Each play is a microcosm of a military operation that's a top classified secret. You watch the QB throw the ball downfield on TV and then suddenly the camera cuts downfield to where the ball is about to meet the intended receiver. But while the pass play is developing, you have no idea what the play is, what routes the receivers are running, what the coverage is, why the receiver got open - blown coverage?, outran or outfaked the defender? - Maybe the play was a mistake. A lucky blunder. Who the fuck knows? Nobody, until the experts explain it to you. Was that receiver a decoy? Was he supposed to block. Was the intended receiver the second option? The third? Maybe, just maybe, you'll get all of this info a week after the game when someone decides to break the play down and explain it to you from an end zone angle replay -- the kind of replay that the coaches use to study the game. Because even the head coaches, the coaches that designed the fucking play and then called it during the game don't know for sure what happened until after they review the end zone film frame by frame, constantly clicking the pause and then play and then rewind and then play again like 20 times until they themselves get it figured out. My favorite is when the fans start bragging about their favorite team's all-pro left guard, as if they ever watch what the left guard does in real time while the play is unfolding. As if they can even tell what a left guard is supposed to be doing which they can't because they don't even know what the play is and what the left guard's even supposed to be doing. All these fans do, including me, if they're diligent fans, is read a lot and then read a lot more about their left guard and then take a leap of faith and decide which writer or writers are credible and trustworthy enough to repeat their opinions about your terrific left guard. It's a wonder than anyone even watches this sport.

Johnny Lunchbucket Jan 25 2022 06:30 PM Re: Bet Your Bottom Dollar

All that. Betting on games is a sucker bet because most fans think they know what they're doing

Frayed Knot Jan 25 2022 07:40 PM Re: Bet Your Bottom Dollar

Yeah, football is endlessly complicated but, unlike baseball, those variations are mostly hidden to even the most avid fans. When the head coach, after being asked how his O-line played, says, 'I dunno, I have to watch the game film first', that doesn't leave much chance for the average fan to know. The thing I've always loved about baseball is that the average fan does know and we can have intelligent and informed discussions about strategy and choices made on the game we just watched.

Edgy MD Jan 25 2022 07:54 PM Re: Bet Your Bottom Dollar

I still think we've hit peak NFL. The New York football fans I came of age with knew every starter on the Jets and Giants, most of the reserves, and most of the starters in both teams' divisions, too. And yeah, of course, they knew every starting QB in the NFL. I think when people are watching on autopilot, still tuning in out of habit but not really engaging, there is a meaningful loss. Each of those persons is a schedule change away from just not watching any longer, or not passing devotion on to the next generation. I sure hope so, certainly. I think the most entertaining thing about football is the coaches. Actually, I think the most entertaining thing about football is the pants on the coaches.

Lefty Specialist Jan 26 2022 06:02 AM Re: Bet Your Bottom Dollar

I'm not a gambler, but I'm really uncomfortable with how all the leagues have done a 180 and endorse and encourage gambling on the outcome of their games. There will be a betting and game-fixing scandal one day and I'm wondering how they're going to handle it. And the commercials are annoyingly relentless.

Frayed Knot Jan 26 2022 07:14 AM Re: Bet Your Bottom Dollar

=batmagadanleadoff post_id=85115 time=1643160130 user_id=68] Football is like that card game the baseball players played in Bang the Drum Slowly. No one knows nothing and everybody makes believe they're experts.

TEGWAR: The Exciting Game Without Any Rules

Edgy MD Jan 26 2022 08:03 AM Re: Bet Your Bottom Dollar

Lefty Specialist wrote: I'm not a gambler, but I'm really uncomfortable with how all the leagues have done a 180 and endorse and encourage gambling on the outcome of their games. There will be a betting and game-fixing scandal one day and I'm wondering how they're going to handle it. It would certainly not be shocking to find out it's already underway. How many guys are grinding it out in AAA on the verge of their final release? It only takes one. And if the league is already habituated to revenues from the gaming industry, it's going to be really hard to police when the gambling money is paying the police.

The Hot Corner Jan 26 2022 09:06 PM Re: Bet Your Bottom Dollar

I wonder what Pete Rose thinks about all this. I'd wager he's in favor of it.

TransMonk Jan 31 2022 11:05 AM Re: Bet Your Bottom Dollar

[TWEET]https://twitter.com/KaplanSportsBiz/status/1488172262444306438[/TWEET]

Edgy MD Jan 31 2022 11:32 AM Re: Bet Your Bottom Dollar

wOw

seawolf17 Jan 31 2022 11:33 AM Re: Bet Your Bottom Dollar

Pete Rose is like WHAT THE---

kcmets Jan 31 2022 11:43 AM Re: Bet Your Bottom Dollar

I imagine all the parks in states with legalized gambling will have something in place by Opening Day. I didn't look up if Ohio is legalized yet, but if it is it would damn funny if Pete Rose got a sweet advertising gig promoting some betting parlor at Great American Ballpark.

Lefty Specialist Jan 31 2022 01:02 PM Re: Bet Your Bottom Dollar

I know the ship has probably sailed, but the minute MLB signed a contract for sports betting, Rose should have immediately been inducted into the Hall of Fame. Because now there's no reason not to.

Marshmallowmilkshake Jan 31 2022 01:35 PM Re: Bet Your Bottom Dollar

Lefty Specialist wrote: I know the ship has probably sailed, but the minute MLB signed a contract for sports betting, Rose should have immediately been inducted into the Hall of Fame. Because now there's no reason not to. I think the distinction would be that Rose allegedly was betting on the outcome of games he was participating in as a manager, and, in theory, could then influence the game based on his wagering. Suspecting that will still be illegal even as the leagues are all the way in bed with the books. (Personally, I think Rose should have been treated for what appears to be an addiction, and a year suspension with therapy and ongoing counseling would have been better for him and the sport. I also have no idea whether he would have even agreed to that.) I also think he should be eligible for the hall.

MFS62 Jan 31 2022 02:31 PM Re: Bet Your Bottom Dollar

=Marshmallowmilkshake post_id=85365 time=1643661352 user_id=119] (Personally, I think Rose should have been treated for what appears to be an addiction, and a year suspension with therapy and ongoing counseling would have been better for him and the sport. I also have no idea whether he would have even agreed to that.)

I'll lay 3 to 5 odds he wouldn't have agreed to that.



Later

Edgy MD Jan 31 2022 02:50 PM Re: Bet Your Bottom Dollar

I think most accounts suggest many different back channels have been tried with the intent to get Pete to agree to terms in exchange for the league being willing to revisit the ban down the line, and they've been rebuffed. Really, to hear Dowd tell it, from the beginning, the whole investigation with Rose was done with the intent go get him to come clean, after which the league could work with him to put his image back together. It's largely forgotten, but Dowd also investigated Lenny Dykstra for high-stakes gambling, and Dowd was able to convince Dykstra to put a halt to it during his playing career and avoid the ugliness that Pete Rose dragged the game through. And when you have less impulse control that Lenny Dykstra, things aren't good. Also, I propose a hard ban on Pete Rose betting cracks for the duration of this thread.

kcmets Jan 31 2022 02:57 PM Re: Bet Your Bottom Dollar

I'll lay 3 to 5 odds he'll never change hairstyles (or wigs, if case may be). I really don't care if Pete gets in or not at at this point. I was just attempting humor with the advertising gig thing up above.

Frayed Knot Jan 31 2022 04:15 PM Re: Bet Your Bottom Dollar

[TWEET]https://twitter.com/KaplanSportsBiz/status/1488172262444306438[/TWEET] The Nats/Lerner family are essentially playing catch-up here as Ted Leonsis, owner of the Capitals & Wizards in the same city, already has a sports book in his arena. By coincidence, HBO's REAL SPORTS show this month has a segment on the relation between sports and gambling. When asked about his or the team's responsibility for any problem gamblers who might (will!) develop on account of this equivalent of bringing the brewery to alcoholics, Leonsis passed the buck to Caeser's, the licensed franchise in whatever that building is called this month, saying that they are the ones responsible for monitoring the bettors for signs of problems. Only problem is, the way sports books deal with addicted gamblers is to actively seek to keep them addicted. Regular "clients" are assigned an account manager (or some such title) whose job it is to contact guys who have stopped placing bets and offer them a 'freebie' which, they hope, is enough to get the fish hooked again. And it often works.

Frayed Knot Apr 21 2022 01:03 PM Re: Bet Your Bottom Dollar

The bottom of the screen crawl on MLBN is packed with odds, lines, over/unders, etc. for each game. The starting pitchers are the only non-gambling info included. So the network run by the sport now looks like a gambling site which just happens to be showing baseball info at that moment. Also, as a consequence of all that, the crawl is twice as thick as normal meaning more of your screen is cluttered up with junk most of us don't want.