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Like the DH?? You're in Luck...

kcmets Feb 10 2022 12:49 PM

... deets to follow.

kcmets Feb 10 2022 12:53 PM Re: Like the DH?? You're in Luck...

Rob Manfred Announces MLB Will Implement Universal DH in 2022 (totally stole link from themetfairy post on social media)

Edgy MD Feb 10 2022 12:54 PM Re: Like the DH?? You're in Luck...

Fuck me floor to ceiling.

kcmets Feb 10 2022 12:56 PM Re: Like the DH?? You're in Luck...

It was sadly inevitable.

G-Fafif Feb 10 2022 01:02 PM Re: Like the DH?? You're in Luck...

Boooooooooo….

seawolf17 Feb 10 2022 01:10 PM Re: Like the DH?? You're in Luck...

BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Willets Point Feb 10 2022 01:52 PM Re: Like the DH?? You're in Luck...

[TWEET]https://twitter.com/DougJBalloon/status/1491852553910431746[/TWEET]

Frayed Knot Feb 10 2022 02:01 PM Re: Like the DH?? You're in Luck...

So THIS is the one thing that they agree on in the talks?!? This decision, like the sessions themselves, not only fails to produce progress but it produces the opposite of progress.

smg58 Feb 10 2022 02:37 PM Re: Like the DH?? You're in Luck...

Baseball is run by people who hate baseball.

Edgy MD Feb 10 2022 02:50 PM Re: Like the DH?? You're in Luck...

Now the Mets can potentially hit worse on the days deGrom pitches, with his bat out of the lineup.

Marshmallowmilkshake Feb 10 2022 03:12 PM Re: Like the DH?? You're in Luck...

Edgy MD wrote: Now the Mets can potentially hit worse on the days deGrom pitches, with his bat out of the lineup. I never thought about this, but does Othani get a DH on the days he pitches, or does he hit like in his other games?

Chad ochoseis Feb 10 2022 03:22 PM Re: Like the DH?? You're in Luck...

I'm too lazy to consult a box score, but I don't think he hits on the days he pitches. I think the rule is that once he leaves the game, the relievers would also have to hit (or be PHed for). I've been resigned to this inevitability for a while. Probably good for the Mets who, if their players can play to their career numbers and not their 2021 numbers, have more good hitters than places to put them. And I'm glad that after 50 years the AL and NL play by the same rules again. Now get rid of the Manfred Man in extra innings, OK?

Marshmallowmilkshake Feb 10 2022 03:48 PM Re: Like the DH?? You're in Luck...

Chad ochoseis wrote: I'm too lazy to consult a box score, but I don't think he hits on the days he pitches. I think the rule is that once he leaves the game, the relievers would also have to hit (or be PHed for). I've been resigned to this inevitability for a while. Probably good for the Mets who, if their players can play to their career numbers and not their 2021 numbers, have more good hitters than places to put them. And I'm glad that after 50 years the AL and NL play by the same rules again. Now get rid of the Manfred Man in extra innings, OK? Loving calling the runner the Manfred Mann!

MFS62 Feb 10 2022 03:56 PM Re: Like the DH?? You're in Luck...

More erosion to the sport that used to be called "A thinking man's game". I'm very sad, even though I felt this was inevitable. On another baseboard, I have always called it "that silly rule", refusing to call it by the two letter designation. I will continue to do that. Later

Chad ochoseis Feb 10 2022 03:58 PM Re: Like the DH?? You're in Luck...

=Marshmallowmilkshake post_id=85737 time=1644533310 user_id=119] Loving calling the runner the Manfred Mann!

Brilliant idea, but not mine. Frayed Knot came up with it, IIRC.

Edgy MD Feb 10 2022 03:59 PM Re: Like the DH?? You're in Luck...

Ohtani bats on the days he is starting pitcher about half to 2/3 of the time. He's also frequently sent out to right field when he's lifted from the mound if it looks like his bat can still be a difference maker.

Chad ochoseis Feb 10 2022 04:10 PM Re: Like the DH?? You're in Luck...

Interesting. But even if Ohtani stays in the lineup, the reliever is in the batting order, correct?

Edgy MD Feb 10 2022 04:25 PM Re: Like the DH?? You're in Luck...

Yes, eschewing the DH from the start of the game means the Angels are forced to play like a National League team the rest of the game.

whippoorwill Feb 10 2022 04:54 PM Re: Like the DH?? You're in Luck...

:-/

whippoorwill Feb 10 2022 04:55 PM Re: Like the DH?? You're in Luck...

I just wish they'd leave things alone

Frayed Knot Feb 10 2022 05:16 PM Re: Like the DH?? You're in Luck...

Chad ochoseis wrote: =Marshmallowmilkshake post_id=85737 time=1644533310 user_id=119] Loving calling the runner the Manfred Mann! Brilliant idea, but not mine. Frayed Knot came up with it, IIRC.

As long as 'Came up with it' means stole it from a Phil Mushnick column, then, yes.

IIRC, one of Mushnick's readers sent it in.





And MLB had previously announced (I believe officially) that the 'Manfred Man' was a Covid-era rule only and will not return.

dinosaur jesus Feb 10 2022 06:33 PM Re: Like the DH?? You're in Luck...

=smg58 post_id=85732 time=1644529035 user_id=62] Baseball is run by people who hate baseball.

And they're making me hate baseball.

Fman99 Feb 11 2022 06:55 AM Re: Like the DH?? You're in Luck...

. [BIGPURPLE]BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO[/BIGPURPLE]

metsmarathon Feb 11 2022 07:17 AM Re: Like the DH?? You're in Luck...

about the only good thing i can think of as far as the dh is that it should help our weird weird roster get more at bats for people who could use them. granted it was constructed with that intent and expectation, so.... the arguments in favor of the dh just never rang true for me, in that pitchers were bad hitters and got hurt doing hitter things. well, fucking hell, maybe those professional athletes could like, consider that part of their fucking job and prepare for it. plus, a good hitting pitcher is a joy to behold, and the mets always seemed to have good hitting pitchers. and bartolo colon. but jesus christ, if it is at all a thing that is working to prevent baseball from happening, then give me two fucking dhes, i don't care. just give me fucking baseball back.

Benjamin Grimm Feb 11 2022 07:29 AM Re: Like the DH?? You're in Luck...

I've always hated the DH, and then something worse came along: That phantom base runner. The DH definitely makes the game less interesting, but I still enjoyed watching in 2020. This sucks, but we'll survive. The thing that really has made the game less interesting in recent years is all of the walks and strikeouts. I wish they could do something about that.

Edgy MD Feb 11 2022 07:51 AM Re: Like the DH?? You're in Luck...

Next week, Manfred introduces the new coach-pitch rule.

Methead Feb 11 2022 08:20 AM Re: Like the DH?? You're in Luck...

I didn't hate the DH as much as I thought I would. I certainly didn't hate it as much as the 7-inning games and the extra inning rules. And honestly this move has seemed inevitable for a long time anyway, love it or not. And there are beneficial ways to use the DH spot that aren't simply plugging a slugger into that spot. I'm probably just old and apathetic at this point though too.

Benjamin Grimm Feb 11 2022 08:32 AM Re: Like the DH?? You're in Luck...

=Methead post_id=85769 time=1644592822 user_id=61] I'm probably just old and apathetic at this point though too.

I can identify with this. I would have been much more upset about this thirty years ago.

Willets Point Feb 11 2022 09:01 AM Re: Like the DH?? You're in Luck...

Not for nothing, but we got 50 years of baseball as it ought to be, so it can't be said this was a rushed decision.

Johnny Lunchbucket Feb 11 2022 09:03 AM Re: Like the DH?? You're in Luck...

same. It's still hard not to think the game is really deteriorating but my passion about that isn't rising in tandem.

Bob Alpacadaca Feb 11 2022 09:24 AM Re: Like the DH?? You're in Luck...

I don't like it. But I'm amazed it hasn't happened sooner. Once interleague games became common to the point where there is one every day, it makes no sense to have two sets of rules.

A Boy Named Seo Feb 11 2022 09:48 AM Re: Like the DH?? You're in Luck...

Yeah I pretty much hate this but when I rage against the machine nowadays, it's for things much more important in life. The kids today, I imagine, don't give a single shit about this one way or the other. I'm with Methead and BG and think baseball has maybe achieved the worst of possible outcomes: fan apathy. While there are writers and fans who still rail against the devolution of this sport, it feels to me like the greater collective response (for those that even noticed) was a shrug.

Methead Feb 11 2022 10:59 AM Re: Like the DH?? You're in Luck...

Well don't get me wrong, I still care about Mets games. I watch as many innings as I possibly can, and I pay attention to players evolving through the system and things like that. It's true that I don't let Mets losses piss me off as much as they used to. But that's basically as far as it goes for me these days in terms of the larger MLB universe.

Edgy MD Feb 11 2022 11:26 AM Re: Like the DH?? You're in Luck...

Bob Alpacadaca wrote: I don't like it. But I'm amazed it hasn't happened sooner. Once interleague games became common to the point where there is one every day, it makes no sense to have two sets of rules. It makes less sense, though, to have bad rules proliferate.

The Hot Corner Feb 11 2022 06:48 PM Re: Like the DH?? You're in Luck...

I am far less annoyed or upset by the universal adoption of the DH going forward. I think it is because I had come to view its adoption as an inevitable part of the new collective bargaining agreement. Now the automatic runner in scoring position during extra innings, I truly hate; far more than I ever did the DH.

Frayed Knot Feb 11 2022 07:49 PM Re: Like the DH?? You're in Luck...

=metsmarathon post_id=85765 time=1644589059 user_id=83] the arguments in favor of the dh just never rang true for me, in that pitchers were bad hitters and got hurt doing hitter things.

The thing is, none of that was never the justification for the DH in the first place. The DH, like most bad things in baseball, can be traced back to the Yanquis.



In the late '60s/early '70s, the AL was the clearly inferior league, both on the field and off. They had the less popular team in LA, in Chicago, in Missouri,

and, yes, in New York. The AL integrated at a slower pace and therefore had the more staid game with less speed and creative excitement. And, more than

that, due to the NYY dominance from the early '20s thru the early '60s, the AL became so single-team dependent over the decades that, when the Yanx

crashed and burned from '65 thru '73, the whole league was hit with an attendance drought because the NYY had always given that league a team to either

love or love to hate. So they concocted the DH rule so as to goose up both offense (coming off the pitching dominant '60s) and attendance (by maybe

keeping aging 'name' sluggers in the game).



But by the '990s (if not sooner) the reasons for the DH had long since gone away. Offense was king by the '90s and there was neither the offensive lull nor

the attendance deficit but the rule lingered on simply by momentum in the same way that some government programs continue by osmosis whether they

are actually helping to solve the problem or not.

Edgy MD Feb 12 2022 01:59 PM Re: Like the DH?? You're in Luck...

I'm a little leery about philosophically accepting the DH on the notion that it's not as bad as other rules put in place since 2020. It half makes me suspect that Commissioner Manfred elected to institute those rules for the specific purpose of making the universal DH more palatable.

Lefty Specialist Feb 13 2022 05:16 AM Re: Like the DH?? You're in Luck...

A Boy Named Seo wrote: Yeah I pretty much hate this but when I rage against the machine nowadays, it's for things much more important in life. The kids today, I imagine, don't give a single shit about this one way or the other. I'm with Methead and BG and think baseball has maybe achieved the worst of possible outcomes: fan apathy. While there are writers and fans who still rail against the devolution of this sport, it feels to me like the greater collective response (for those that even noticed) was a shrug. Yeah, this is pretty much where I'm at. It's a bad idea, but I don't have the strength (or the ability) to fight it. 2020 kind of primed us for this anyway. Maybe DeGrom will get to pinch hit once in a while.

Frayed Knot Feb 14 2022 08:26 AM Re: Like the DH?? You're in Luck...

I think we still need to fight it. Will it change anything? Almost certainly not. But it would help to keep reminding them that we're neither happy nor accepting of it. Say a trend where anti-DH banners are a regular sight in NL parks. Banners get seen by other fans, by execs in their suites, and by TV cameras. Keeping them humorous and clever would make more of an impact IMO rather than simple vented outrage, maybe like those Hunter Pence signs from a few years ago. FMan's remark that 'You can't spell DUH! without DH' put this idea in my head. Come up with a few more and the idea will start to catch on, both at CitiField and elsewhere and pretty soon you'll have the Alice's Restaurant anti-DH Movement and all you have to do is sing it next time it comes around on the gee-tar

Edgy MD Feb 14 2022 10:50 AM Re: Like the DH?? You're in Luck...

Amen and amen and amen. I intend to go down noisily.

Gwreck Feb 14 2022 10:43 PM Re: Like the DH?? You're in Luck...

Rob Manfred has done more to ruin baseball than…anyone else in my lifetime?

Frayed Knot Feb 15 2022 05:39 AM Re: Like the DH?? You're in Luck...

Although let's not act as if Manfred is doing all this unilaterally. The owners/execs have been increasingly leaning this way for years now - probably looking at the prices they're paying pitchers and getting fraidy-scared of allowing them out of bubble-wrap any more than they have to. And we know the union has long touted this as creating an extra job (which it doesn't) and a high-paying one at that (less true than it once was). Plus, caters to the established veterans of their group and, as their long-time anti-PED testing stance showed, union bosses have shown they're more than willing to dismiss what the younger rank and file thinks in order to protect the big boys in the room.

Gwreck Feb 15 2022 10:43 AM Re: Like the DH?? You're in Luck...

Frayed Knot wrote: as their long-time anti-PED testing stance showed, union bosses have shown they're more than willing to dismiss what the younger rank and file thinks in order to protect the big boys in the room. It's not at all clear that an anti-testing stance favors established players over younger ones. The results of testing - (which the MLBPA was apparently in favor of back in 2004) certainly shows some big names (Palmeiro, Ramirez) getting caught but also far more marginal players or those trying to break in to MLB for the first time getting caught. Also, the reference to “union bosses” is unclear here. Aren't they doing what the players what? The same way that Manfred is doing what the owners want? Regardless, this is a bit off-topic from the abomination that is the Designated Hitter. If that's the extent of the rule changes, then the game will survive. The other changes that Manfred (in service of the owners) has pushed (7 inning games, phantom runners) are probably even more intolerable.

Frayed Knot Feb 15 2022 03:09 PM Re: Like the DH?? You're in Luck... Edited 3 time(s), most recently on Feb 17 2022 09:52 AM

Don Fehr and his Lieutenants were adamant for a time that they would Never agree to players being subject to PED testing, comparing it at one point as a personal right akin to forbidding players from smoking cigarettes in the off-season. But as time went on word started to leak out that a significant number of players wanted PEDs out of the game but felt intimidated against saying so to the union often due to their lesser service time and/or lack of star status. It was thought that Fehr et al were more interested in protecting the Bonds / Clemens wing of the party with their bigger contracts and more veteran status and so the 'little guys' either weren't speaking up or weren't being listened to. Eventually that changed but it took a while. So I can certainly see the same type of pressure being applied towards newer players who might not want the DH from those aging stars most likely to benefit from a universal DH -- 'Hey, don't fuck with my job rookie'. And, sure, the union bosses work for the union just like corporate boards work for the stockholders ... but they're going to listen to the big stockholders more. I suspect the pro-DH wing of players is smaller and so, unlike the PED question, there is less likely to be a 'silent majority' here. But I still find it easy to believe that there is/was pressure to keep the employment of Pujols and Miggy Cabrera types going and their contracts on the books.

Edgy MD Feb 15 2022 03:21 PM Re: Like the DH?? You're in Luck...

Worth remembering that an entire team attempted to intentionally fail tests that were meant to be sealed, in order to help trigger mandatory testing.

86dreamer Feb 17 2022 07:25 AM Re: Like the DH?? You're in Luck...

Edgy MD wrote: Worth remembering that an entire team attempted to intentionally fail tests that were meant to be sealed, in order to help trigger mandatory testing. I need help remembering - what is the story here?

Gwreck Feb 17 2022 09:01 AM Re: Like the DH?? You're in Luck...

They didn't all take PEDs; they refused to appear for the tests or some other procedural violation, which counted the same as a failed test. Edit: Found it. Sandy Alomar Jr. says it was a plan hatched by veteran players on the White Sox. https://www.nytimes.com/2003/03/12/sports/baseball-the-white-sox-take-a-stand-on-steroid-tests.html

Gwreck Mar 11 2022 01:47 AM Re: Like the DH?? You're in Luck...

Frayed Knot wrote: union bosses have shown they're more than willing to dismiss what the younger rank and file thinks in order to protect the big boys in the room. Interestingly, it was reported that MLBPA's executive subcommittee voted 8-0 against accepting the new deal, but it passed 26-12 when voted upon by the broader player board. Seems the specter of those shadowy “Union bosses” aren't quite so all-powerful.

seawolf17 Mar 16 2022 09:56 AM Re: Like the DH?? You're in Luck...

Dom hit two long home runs to right off Max this morning, as per some videos SNY shared on Facebook. That is *really* encouraging.

Benjamin Grimm Mar 16 2022 10:01 AM Re: Like the DH?? You're in Luck...

Or discouraging. We can't be sure whether this reflects on Smith or on Scherzer.

A Boy Named Seo Mar 16 2022 11:43 AM Re: Like the DH?? You're in Luck...

Were they both off Max?

Fman99 Mar 16 2022 12:21 PM Re: Like the DH?? You're in Luck...

=seawolf17 post_id=87150 time=1647446207 user_id=91] Dom hit two long home runs to right off Max this morning, as per some videos SNY shared on Facebook. That is *really* encouraging.

I'm reading it in the most optimistic way -- Dom is going to right the ship this year. Max is just working on fastballs and location in his first outing. There you go.

Edgy MD Mar 16 2022 12:34 PM Re: Like the DH?? You're in Luck...

Even more optimistically would be that Scherzer is locked in, and no other batter could have touched those pitches.

batmagadanleadoff Mar 16 2022 12:53 PM Re: Like the DH?? You're in Luck...

This just in: Rey Ordonez rips a line drive single to left. He'll probably hit .400 this season.

batmagadanleadoff Mar 16 2022 12:54 PM Re: Like the DH?? You're in Luck...

Wow! Ordonez smashes another line drive single. Make that .500!

nymr83 Mar 16 2022 11:57 PM Re: Like the DH?? You're in Luck...

I bet Ordonez is still playing in a beer league somewhere at 51 years old and making it look easy at shortstop (hey its all relative)