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Civil War 2.0

Benjamin Grimm Jan 10 2022 12:51 PM

I really don't think the United States is on the verge of a second Civil War, but there's been more and more talk of such a thing in the last year, and seemingly even more in the days since the January 6 anniversary. So here's a thread about it! There's an interesting article on NPR's website: Imagine another American Civil War, but this time in every state This made me curious. I wonder what measurement is used to make this determination: A scholar of international law, (University of California at San Diego political scientist Barbara F.) Walter adds: "The U.S. used to be considered a full democracy like Norway, Switzerland or Iceland," she said, "and it's now considered a partial democracy like Ecuador, Somalia or Haiti." I think some fundamental changes are needed, but I don't see it taking the form of a War Between the States as it did in 1861. But some kind of dramatic upheaval isn't at all unlikely. I just don't know what form it might take, if it does in fact happen.

batmagadanleadoff Jan 10 2022 04:46 PM Re: Civil War 2.0

Benjamin Grimm wrote: I think some fundamental changes are needed, but I don't see it taking the form of a War Between the States as it did in 1861. But some kind of dramatic upheaval isn't at all unlikely. I just don't know what form it might take, if it does in fact happen. Not an all-out war like the Civil War of the 1860's, just the same as international wars aren't fought like they were in WWI, WWII and Korea. The world has, as one would expect, changed drastically. But more violence. More acts of terrorism --- against institutions of authority and against the private sector. Assasinations, both political and against private citizens. Me, I think this is inevitable. Our Constitution is outdated and needs to be amended. But it won't because the powers that are in position to amend the Constitution don't act in the best interests of the country, but instead, act out of partisan self-interest.

seawolf17 Jan 11 2022 08:48 AM Re: Civil War 2.0

Benjamin Grimm wrote: I think some fundamental changes are needed, but I don't see it taking the form of a War Between the States as it did in 1861. But some kind of dramatic upheaval isn't at all unlikely. I just don't know what form it might take, if it does in fact happen. Not an all-out war like the Civil War of the 1860's, just the same as international wars aren't fought like they were in WWI, WWII and Korea. The world has, as one would expect, changed drastically. But more violence. More acts of terrorism --- against institutions of authority and against the private sector. Assasinations, both political and against private citizens. Me, I think this is inevitable. Our Constitution is outdated and needs to be amended. But it won't because the powers that are in position to amend the Constitution don't act in the best interests of the country, but instead, act out of partisan self-interest. I think you're right. I think January 6 was the tip of the iceberg. There's a whole lot of fucking crazy out there right now.

metsmarathon Jan 11 2022 08:54 AM Re: Civil War 2.0

and a lot of them are in positions of power and influence. either because they believe in the crazy, or cater to it.

Fman99 Jan 12 2022 10:29 AM Re: Civil War 2.0

So we're not counting the G&R song as Civil War 2.0 then? OK, I mean, I guess.

Edgy MD Jan 12 2022 12:43 PM Re: Civil War 2.0

Politico reported that The National Archives received a forged certificates from (or so they claimed) both Michigan and Arizona proclaiming that former-President Trump won the two states. They reported the transgression to both states and Arizona's investigation revealed the apparent source of both certificates to be a "sovereign citizen" group. So far, no indictments have come from the state, and Michigan has taken no known action whatsoever. Neither state's attorney general's office has replied to their inquiries. I'm not sure what kind of time the perpetrators should be looking at, but I know we, as a country, are looking at a great schism, and I can't see how we can avert it by failing to prosecute such transgressors while the movement continues to be boldly proclaimed right in front of us.

batmagadanleadoff Jan 12 2022 12:52 PM Re: Civil War 2.0

Edgy MD wrote: Politico reported that The National Archives received a forged certificates from (or so they claimed) both Michigan and Arizona proclaiming that former-President Trump won the two states. They reported the transgression to both states and Arizona's investigation revealed the apparent source of both certificates to be a "sovereign citizen" group. So far, no indictments have come from the state, and Michigan has taken no known action whatsoever. Neither state's attorney general's office has replied to their inquiries. I'm not sure what kind of time the perpetrators should be looking at, but I know we, as a country, are looking at a great schism, and I can't see how we can avert it by failing to prosecute such transgressors while the movement continues to be boldly proclaimed right in front of us. I like how all you hear from this scumbag political party (political party - Hah! - It's not a political party anymore. It's a fucking pirate ship.) is how the Dems cheat and steal . But every single time some scam is discovered, it's always on behalf of the GOP. They tried to install their candidate as President by sheer force and violence but its the Dems that are the cheaters. And sadly, a big chunk of the electorate believes their horseshit lies.

ashie62 Jan 13 2022 06:00 AM Re: Civil War 2.0

I don't believe either party is doing us much of a a favor at this point. I am hopeful that it is the pandemic that unleashed the crazy and with time we will feel better enmasse.

Benjamin Grimm Jan 13 2022 06:59 AM Re: Civil War 2.0

I think the election of a black president is what unleashed the frenzy. It's just been steadily building since then.

metsmarathon Jan 13 2022 07:05 AM Re: Civil War 2.0

lotta people still can't come to grips with the outcome and righteousness of the end result of the first civil war.

Lefty Specialist Jan 13 2022 10:03 AM Re: Civil War 2.0

=ashie62 post_id=84523 time=1642078827 user_id=90] I don't believe either party is doing us much of a a favor at this point. I am hopeful that it is the pandemic that unleashed the crazy and with time we will feel better enmasse.

Oh please. Only one party is the problem. And the crazy had been unleashed long before COVID, and will persist long after.

seawolf17 Jan 13 2022 10:32 AM Re: Civil War 2.0

You're right - one party is the problem - but the other party isn't exactly DOING anything about it.

batmagadanleadoff Feb 13 2022 03:19 PM Re: Civil War 2.0

Benjamin Grimm wrote: I think some fundamental changes are needed, but I don't see it taking the form of a War Between the States as it did in 1861. But some kind of dramatic upheaval isn't at all unlikely. I just don't know what form it might take, if it does in fact happen. Not an all-out war like the Civil War of the 1860's, just the same as international wars aren't fought like they were in WWI, WWII and Korea. The world has, as one would expect, changed drastically. But more violence. More acts of terrorism --- against institutions of authority and against the private sector. Assasinations, both political and against private citizens. Me, I think this is inevitable. Our Constitution is outdated and needs to be amended. But it won't because the powers that are in position to amend the Constitution don't act in the best interests of the country, but instead, act out of partisan self-interest. ___________________ 'Targeted Assassinations' Coming if Civil War Breaks Out: Adam Kinzinger Excerpt: If a civil war breaks out in the United States, Representative Adam Kinzinger believes it won't be reminiscent of the 19th century Civil War because it'll take the form of "targeted assassinations" and not state against state. Once an unthinkable theory, growing political divisions have fueled speculation that a civil war could be looming. While some see it as inevitable, others have pushed for people to resist the possibility, and Kinzinger told The View on February 10 that it's not "too far of a bridge" to believe another civil war could happen in the United States. However, if it does occur, he warned that it wouldn't take the same shape as it did in 1861. Instead of the traditional form of war the Civil War took, where it was "blue against gray," this time around, it would be "armed groups against armed groups," according to Kinzinger. "Targeted assassinations, violence–that's what a 21st and 20th century civil war is," Kinzinger said. "We're identifying now by our race, by our ethnic group, we're separating ourselves and we live in different realities." https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/targeted-assassinations-coming-if-civil-war-breaks-out-adam-kinzinger/ar-AATKbqK

Edgy MD Feb 13 2022 08:18 PM Re: Civil War 2.0

I don't see it that way at all. Assassinations could happen, sure. But terrorist factions taking up arms against each other seems unlikely. The extreme left doesn't strike me as organized into armed cells the way the extreme right is. You may get gangs of 20-something squatters willing to throw some punches in the street, and certainly somebody might pull a gun or throw an explosive, but we've seen their operations and their tactics seem more typically of the unweildy and confrontational but bloodless type — marching and setting up tent cities. Capable of violence, certainly, but not drilling for it and openly deploying amateur regiments. If that's the way the right goes, their main opposition will be National Guardsmen. In some states, the governor may use the Guard actively suppress these insurgents, in others the governor will completely appease them, and in some, the governor may look for a middle way. But a president may federalize the guard and push back harder. Our fear of jailing their clown leaders is our problem. The lack of consequences emboldens people to act on their worst instincts.